Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bilateral relations

WP:DSBILATERAL

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Bilateral relations[edit]

Embassy of Sudan, London[edit]

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No useful secondary sources. Fails WP:GNG. Only sources are a government list of diplomatic missions and a source purportedly about a protest at the embassy more than a decade ago but which appears unrelated. Previously subject of contested PROD and contested merge/redirect. AusLondonder (talk) 16:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Organizations, Sudan, and United Kingdom. AusLondonder (talk) 16:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
redirect to Sudan–United Kingdom relations#Diplomatic_missions as is typical for cases where the building is not itself notable. Mangoe (talk) 20:17, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Kutner[edit]

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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Fails WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 11:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Israel, Andorra, Spain, and Argentina. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:BIO. Google News yields very little. Ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 01:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agree. Not enough here to justify the article. Fails WP:GNG. MaskedSinger (talk) 07:42, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lironne Bar-Sade[edit]

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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Fails WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 11:11, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Israel, Ireland, and Latvia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Margaret Adamson[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Appears to fail WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 20:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Cambodia, Pakistan, Poland, and Australia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:16, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Angela Corcoran[edit]

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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Appears to fail WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 19:59, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Cambodia, Myanmar, and Australia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:08, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There is not enough SIGCOV for her to meet GNG. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:10, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Coverage is routine. Fails WP:BIO. Ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 03:15, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nicola Rosenblum[edit]

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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Fails WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 07:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Brunei, and Australia. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 08:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I don't find anything beyond press releases or her appearances at various events, not meeting notability requirements. Oaktree b (talk) 13:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:BIO. Ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 03:14, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ruth Adler (diplomat)[edit]

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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Fails WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 07:05, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Ireland, and Australia. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 08:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Brunei-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:BIO. Ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 03:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Agree. Fails WP:GNG. Great that these pages are created but first dig further to see if they are notable enough. MaskedSinger (talk) 07:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Luke Lazarus Arnold[edit]

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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Appears to fail WP:GNG as the references are mostly poor quality passing mentions, and collectively these references don't constitute significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Uhooep (talk) 19:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Brunei, Indonesia, and Australia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 21:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of high commissioners of Australia to Brunei per WP:ATD. Sourcing is either not in-depth or not independent from the subject. Pilaz (talk) 21:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the nomination of redirect, as I do find the sources not very in-depth and the individual only holding one diplomatic position. A redirect seems very reasonable. Pangalau (talk) 02:33, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jennifer M. Adams[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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WP:BLP of a diplomat, not properly sourced as passing inclusion criteria for diplomats. As always, ambassadors are not "inherently" notable just because they exist, and have to be shown to pass WP:GNG on reliable source coverage and analysis about their work in independent third-party sources such as media or books -- but this is referenced entirely to primary source content self-published by the government (i.e. her own employer), with absolutely no evidence of WP:GNG-worthy sourcing shown at all.
Further, this was draftspaced last year per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jennifer M. Adams, before being arbitrarily moved back into mainspace earlier this month on the grounds that her nomination had finally been confirmed by the Senate -- but since the notability bar for ambassadors hinges on GNG-worthy coverage, and not on the simple fact of having been confirmed into the position per se, that should never have happened without the draft being significantly improved with stronger sourcing first.
Nothing here is "inherently" notable in the absence of significantly better sourcing than this. Bearcat (talk) 21:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and United States of America. Bearcat (talk) 21:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, England, Maryland, North Carolina, and Washington, D.C.. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 21:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG. Ambassadors are not inherently notable, and there's no secondary coverage of her. SportingFlyer T·C 00:46, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I agree with Bearcat: ambassadors don’t automatically become notable just by existing. They have to meet WP:GNG or criteria such as WP:NPOL (if they have a political background). I checked the sources and found they are primary, which can’t establish notability. She fails WP:GNG. GrabUp - Talk 08:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agree with above, sourcing is not good enough to meet WP:BIO and ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 23:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Morakot Sriswasdi[edit]

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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Appears to fail WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 09:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge It might be more relevant to create a section for Thai ambassadors in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Foreign_Affairs_(Thailand)

Individual ambassadors might not merit a stand alone page.

Wikilover3509 (talk) 11:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Laos, and Thailand. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:03, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Austria, Slovakia, and Slovenia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:04, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Thailand) per nomination. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 10:36, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The merge suggestion was made by the first commenter, not the nominator. --Paul_012 (talk) 05:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect. Does not meet the notability criteria. --TadejM ^{my talk} 12:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I'm not sure why we would redirect to Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Thailand). If there is no "List of Thai Ambassadors to Laos" or "List of Thai Ambassadors to Austria" then I would just delete without any redirect needed. Uhooep (talk) 17:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- Comment Agreed. --TadejM ^{my talk} 09:35, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don't merge/redirect. Not mentioned at target, and it wouldn't be appropriate to do so. --Paul_012 (talk) 05:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: There are plenty of news mentions, but virtually all of it is in the context of her official capacity. She was featured in The Cloud's "Talk With Ambassadors" podcast[1], but that's also mostly about her work. --Paul_012 (talk) 03:16, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

India-Latin America relations[edit]

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Articles on diplomatic relations are supposed to be country specific as long as they concern modern period. This article's title is too broad, inaccurate and whatever is added here can be already found on other articles.Ratnahastin (talk) 05:08, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't share that understanding of what counts as a legitimate article at all; there are many articles concerning country-to-region relations, such as Africa–India relations, Sino-Latin America relations, etc. Also, I would like to ask which other articles most of the information in this article can be found at. GreekApple123 (talk) 05:40, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Africa–India relations is based on historical relations while Sino-Latin America relations shall also require deletion.Ratnahastin (talk) 06:15, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Politics, Economics, India, and Latin America. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:07, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep or Merge the article is well formatted and cited with many references which covers this topic in depth. It does spun around the topic, passes general notability. However if merging is an option then I'd not oppose it merging in Foreign relations of India. Based Kashmiri (talk) 15:38, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The page is well written and has many reliable sources with significant coverage on the India-Latin economic and trade ties and history. Passes WP:GNG. I am also not opposed to Merge to Foreign relations of India. RangersRus (talk) 13:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per nom. Duplicative of other articles. No point. Yilloslime (talk) 15:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom or Merge into other Indian articles about relations with Latin America

48JCL (talk) 13:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Embassy of Italy, Ottawa[edit]

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All this article does is confirm it exists with no third party coverage to meet WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 23:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Italy, and Canada. LibStar (talk) 23:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Leyla Abdullayeva[edit]

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NO GNG. Created for advertising and PR purposes. --Correspondentman (talk) 12:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Azerbaijan, and France. ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 13:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The other language Wikipedias seem to have a better sourced version of this, with around ten separate sources, however I'm not sure about their quality.

=== Russian language ===

[2] [3] [4] [5] [6]

=== Azerbaijani Wikipedia ===

[7]

Testeraccount101 (talk) 13:52, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy close, because AFD is made by sock of the banned user. User:Correspondentman is banned in Azerbaijani Wikipedia as a sock of User:Elshad Iman (Elşad İman). Here is the discussion. He (User:Elshadiman) has been banned on English Wikipedia for sockpuppetry. You might check the archive through this page Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Elshadiman/Archive. On top of that he continues to use the same sock accounts in English Wikipedia that he used in azwiki: User:Redaksiya, User:90AA123 and User:Correspondentman, which has only 36 edits, all in AFD. Sock accounts cannot create AFDs. — Toghrul R (t) 06:59, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Embassy of Italy, Tirana[edit]

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Article is based on 1 primary source and merely confirms it exists. Fails GNG. LibStar (talk) 07:00, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Albania, and Italy. LibStar (talk) 07:00, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Like many other embassies, this one occupies an architecturally significant building. The corresponding article in the Albanian Wikipedia at sq:Ambasada_Italiane_në_Tiranë, provides some information abut the building's status as a Cultural Monument of Albania that I have added to the English article. Several photos of the embassy are on Commons at commons:Category:Embassy_of_Italy,_Tirana. It is always a good idea to check an article's counterpart in the Wikipedias of other languages before nominating it for deletion. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 08:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aleksandr Surikov (diplomat)[edit]

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Fails GNG and NBIO. Recently deceased Russian diplomat. Sources found in article and BEFORE fail WP:SIRS. Source eval:

Comments	Source
Government obit, fails WP:SIRS, all the normal obit problems plus the Russian government should not be considered a reliable source	1. www.mid.ru https://www.mid.ru/ru/activity/shots/vnutrivedomstvennye_novosti/nekrologi_pamyati_kolleg/1949977/ . Retrieved 2024-05-13 .
Government decree, fails WP:IS, does not contain SIGCOV about the subject.	2. ^ "Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of July 29, 2017 No. 348 “On the Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation in the Republic of Mozambique”" . Archived from the original on 2019-01-26 . Retrieved 2017-09-14 .
Government decree, fails WP:IS, does not contain SIGCOV about the subject.	3. ^ "Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of February 16, 2018 No. 76 “On the Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation in the Kingdom of Swaziland on a part-time basis”" . Archived from the original on 2018-02-16 . Retrieved 2018-02-16 .
Government obit, fails WP:SIRS, all the normal obit problems plus the Russian government should not be considered a reliable source	4. ^ www.mid.ru https://www.mid.ru/ru/activity/shots/vnutrivedomstvennye_novosti/nekrologi_pamyati_kolleg/1949977/ . Retrieved 2024-05-13 .
Obit based on government sources, fails WP:SIRS, all the normal obit problems plus the Russian government should not be considered a reliable source	5. ^ "Russian Ambassador to Mozambique Died" . TACC (in Russian) . Retrieved 2024-05-13 .

BEFORE found name mentions and government statements they released, and an interview, nothing meet WP:SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth from independent reliable sources. // Timothy :: talk 02:02, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: First and foremost, lower your tone while nominating the article for deletion. Secondly, government decrees can be used as secondary sources as if you can type the full name in a Russian, many sources will pop up, (in Russian of course), apart from the official government statement. Here's my third point, he is the ambassador to Mozambique, the highest office of any diplomat in office. Would you delete the ambassador of the United States of Mozambique for that reason? Ivan Milenin (talk) 02:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

he is the ambassador to Mozambique, the highest office of any diplomat in office Ambassadors are not inherently notable, several hundred have been deleted. LibStar (talk) 03:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bilateral relations, Africa, and Russia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:16, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete 3 of the sources are primary. The other is routine coverage of his unfortunate death. Fails WP:BIO. Ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 03:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep I'm leaning to keep, but if if it's drafted... I wouldn't be surprised as well.Ivan Milenin (talk) 05:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:19, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Italy–Montenegro relations[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG. Nothing here that cannot be covered under Foreign relations of Italy or Foreign relations of Montenegro. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Italy, and Montenegro. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:18, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete article contains 2 primary sources. Lacking third party sources to meet GNG. LibStar (talk) 10:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - there is no criteria that articles (apart from BLPs) have to have third party sources to meet GNG. The notability is not to be judged by the sources in the article at present, but the potential available scope of sources. It's pretty obvious that there is enough material out there to expand the article on the relations between these 2 neigbouring countries. --Soman (talk) 00:52, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not true, please read WP:GNG. "Independent of the subject". It is a basic requirement of GNG to provide third party sources. For an editor who has edited since 2004 you should know this. LibStar (talk) 00:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
and they're not really neighbouring, yes across the sea but no land border. LibStar (talk) 00:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"it's pretty obvious that there is enough material out there to expand the article " Please list these or it's WP:MUSTBESOURCES. LibStar (talk) 00:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd counter-question is any WP:BEFORE was performed here? In this case it's pretty easy to assume that sources would be available. How about [8], [9], [10], "Italia e il Montenegro , firmato a Cettigne il 28 marzo 1883. È desso il primo accordo che l'Italia stipula con quel principato , ed è il secondo che il Montenegro conchiude con nazioni estere , il primo essendo stato concluso colla ." ([11]), "Nel novembre 1879 , Giuseppe Ottolenghi , delegato italiano nella commissione per la delimitazione nel Montenegro , nella sua relazione al capo dello Stato Maggiore riassume ." ([12]), "[Albania]... Italy, Montenegro and, traditionally, those of Austria, was not a minor problem. This issue, therefore, was destined to alter the relations between Montenegro and Italy, and between Italy and Serbia. Projects of Italian occupation..." ([13]), etc, etc. --Soman (talk) 01:23, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for finding third party sources which is a requirement of GNG. LibStar (talk) 01:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@LibStar @Soman With the exception of link 1 above (and link 2, which is a dead link), the sources provided refer to historical episodes already covered in detail in other articles. See Italian governorate of Montenegro, Italy–Yugoslavia relations. Again, with the exception of link 1, the sources are not about the relationship between Italy and the current post-Serbian state of Montenegro. My BEFORE search did not turn up enough significant coverage of post-2006 relations, which means that WP:NOPAGE should apply to avoid creating a content fork with Italian governorate of Montenegro or Italy–Yugoslavia relations. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:19, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Dclemens, from your analysis of sources, I stand by my delete !vote. I agree that coverage should be about the current post-Serbian state of Montenegro. LibStar (talk) 02:28, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not an approach consistent with how other bilateral relations articles are delimited. Look at Russia–United Kingdom relations, China–India relations, Germany–Italy relations, and so forth. At no point does this article have to relate to post 2006 material only. --Soman (talk) 11:06, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Germany/Italy article starts only with the establishment of modern unified Italy. It's not a history of how Prussia interacted with the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. Likewise, the Italy/Montenegro article starts with the first establishment of a sovereign Montenegrin state that can engage in foreign relations... in 2006. Dclemens1971 (talk) 11:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, let's not limit AfD discussions to the current contents of an article. The discussion should relate to the potential scope of how an article can evolve. There are difficult cases and grey areas, but taking the timeline back to 1800s (unification of Italy and Prinicipality/Kingdom of Montenegro) makes perfect sense to start in this case. It is in line with how articles on Russian bilateral relations link back to more or less same period. --Soman (talk) 23:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 09:53, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As there was a Montenegro before the current state became independent in 2006, we don't need to limit this article to post-2006 events. Note, for example, that Italy occupied Montenegro from 1941 to 1943; see Italian governorate of Montenegro. That said, I hope that additional content and sources are added to this article. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 16:27, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There's not much to it now, but this is a stub that has a reasonable chance to grow. I tend to think that two countries this close to each other are going to have active relations which in turn will receive WP:SIGCOV. A cursory google search confirms this. Yilloslime (talk) 20:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - per Authorities in Exile Claiming to be ‘Governments’: Profiles', Recognition of Governments in International Law: With Particular Reference to Governments in Exile (2001; online edn, Oxford Academic), Italy continued diplomatic relations with the Montenegrin government-in-exile up to September 1921, seemingly the last country to withdraw diplomatic links with the Montenegro govt in exile. --Soman (talk) 23:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]