Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Warped Tour 2012

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete and redirect to Warped Tour. Most of the "keep" !votes boil down to WP:ILIKEIT, but it is clear that there is no good coverage and without coverage, we cannot have an article. Randykitty (talk) 11:23, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Warped Tour 2012[edit]

Warped Tour 2012 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Redirect to Warped Tour was undone. My argument: there is no verified content in here, and the only thing this and other articles have is a list of bands that played there. Even if those appearances themselves were verified, that doesn't make them notable, and it certainly doesn't make this particular instance of the tour notable. Whatever is relevant and of encyclopedic value can be stated in the main article--the rest falls foul of WP:NOTDIR. Drmies (talk) 20:43, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: I posted a few days ago to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music#Concert_tours_etc. to propose these redirects, and have left a notification there pointing to this AfD. I'm not going to list them all in this AfD, but obviously what happens to the other lists (that's what they are, nothing more) depends on what happens in this AfD. Drmies (talk) 20:57, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep With out theses articles, most of the information will be lost for those who want to look back at the list for whatever reason. Wikipedia is for encyclopedia reasons, and this would fall under encyclopedia reasons. Encmetalhead (talk) 20:48, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article is sourced, and serves as an encyclopedia which is what Wikipedia is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Encmetalhead (talk • contribs) 21:19, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just because something is sourced does not mean it is automatically in need of an article on Wikipedia. Johnny338 (talk) 21:24, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And it's not "sourced". There's a couple of announcements, and announcements of announcements. Some of them might actually in reliable sources, maybe, but that's not the point. I'll cite the relevant guideline from Wikipedia:WikiProject Concert Tours:

Concert tours are notable if they have received significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Such coverage might show notability in terms of artistic approach, financial success, relationship to audience, or other such terms. Sources which merely establish that a tour happened are not sufficient to demonstrate notability.

This burden has not been met for this or the other articles. Drmies (talk) 22:24, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yet Warped tour HAS received significant coverage in independent reliable sources for all the examples you have listed... Encmetalhead (talk) 22:39, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No it hasn't, and the 2012 version (and the others) certainly hasn't. Drmies (talk) 23:01, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'll also like to add the official website only lists bands and dates for the current year, so the information isn't readily available for past years outside of the Wikipedia articles. Encmetalhead (talk) 21:27, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per nom. Not independently notable simply because lots of somewhat well-known bands performed at it. Maybe a list of bands that have performed at every Warped Tour, sectioned off by year, is the right place for the really long list in this article now. Jinkinson talk to me 21:42, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That would be 20 years worth of bands, and I doubt any band has played every year. The article is independently notable as Warped Tour is a household name and has been around for 20 years. Encmetalhead (talk) 21:44, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I myself have never heard of it, not that that provides any weight here, but anyways: I agree that the list of bands who have performed at the Warped Tour is going to be long, but it's better than this article. Also, the amount of time the tour has been around is not enough to keep the article. Johnny338 (talk) 21:51, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Jinkinson, Encmetalhead, Johnny338: such a list already exists for every year at List of Warped Tour lineups by year. In light of this, I don't see the point in keeping the article as it essentially duplicates the list and does not impart any additional information. Richard3120 (talk) 11:45, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That article is bloated, long, and shouldn't have been made in the first place. Encmetalhead (talk) 12:09, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Particularly as it has no references. But for Warped Tour 2012 to justify its existence, I do feel we are going to need to see some information (properly sourced) as to why it was "an important year" as some editors suggest – just a list of bands isn't going to cut it. Richard3120 (talk) 12:13, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Tour is notable since several notable bands performed. Article already has several third-party sources. This tour is not like most tours which feature only a handful of bands for the entire run. Adding every single band for 20 years to one article would lead to an article that is much too large. DX927 (talk) 21:53, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And if we combined all the years into one article there will be a discuss on why the list wasn't broken into separate articles for each year. Encmetalhead (talk) 22:39, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Why would every single band be listed in the first place? And "Warped Tour" may be notable, but that doesn't mean that Warped Tour xxxx is. It has to pass the WP:GNG, and I don't see that happening for any of these. Drmies (talk) 22:19, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Specific years for Warped Tour are notable. It's rare that anybody talks about Warped Tour as a whole, people discuss specific years. The tour as it was in say 1999 can not be compared to the tour as it is now or as it was in 2012. As such I belive that having articles for individual years of Warped Tour is important. Several sources can be found for lineups and I think that the it certainly does pass WP:GNG. There is significant coverage of Warped Your every year, most of this is by independant, reliable sources. I don't really see any way that this does not pass the WP:GNG. Punkrok97 (talk) 22:59, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Punkrok97: Read what Drmies said above in relation to WikiProject Concert Tours. This article actually doesn't seem to pass WP:GNG. Also, would you care to link these sources you are discussing? Johnny338 (talk) 23:04, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just from today http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2014/06/mixtapes_ryan_r.html and http://loudwire.com/linkin-park-play-surprise-vans-warped-tour-set-special-guests/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Encmetalhead (talk • contribs) 23:12, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. You think that the blog of a Brooklyn vegan is a reliable source, and that the following note is in-depth discussion--"Ryan Rockwell of pop punk band Mixtapes allegedly said something along the lines of 'Fuck Tigers Jaw, kiss whoever you want"'? For realsies? Note the "allegedly said something along the lines of". This constitutes significant discussion of the 2012 tour as a whole and this is why it should stay? (I'm pretending it's about the 2012 tour, which is what this discussion is about.) I think you need to memorize WP:FART. Or start editing K-pop articles. Drmies (talk) 00:09, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I Wouldn't take the Brooklyn Vegan blog as a source but Alternative Press is certainly noteworthy (http://www.altpress.com/news/entry/vans_warped_tour_2012_announce_stage_lineups). In addition that year itself is noteworthy as a fan actually died at one of the dates. Valid sources for this information can be found here: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/young-woman-collapses-and-dies-at-vans-warped-tour-20120716 and here: http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/07/15/woman_dead_after_collapsing_at_molson_amphitheatre.html. 2012 was also the first year the the Warped Roadies television show was shot, again making it a notable year. I'm not sure if IMBD counts as a source but if it does the page can be found here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2195454/. If not, other valid sources of this information can be found. I hope that this would be enough to show that the 2012 year is in fact distinct from the tour as a whole and that it deserves its own page. Punkrok97 (talk) 02:40, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Altpress reports the lineup. That's to be expected; no doubt you can find plenty more sources that report the lineup. That's never going to make this pass the GNG requirement. No, IMDB doesn't count as a reliable source, though that TV show itself might be notable--but that doesn't make the tour notable ("notability is not inherited"). That leaves an unfortunate accident, but why is that more than an accident? We're not the news. Someone said that the "shockwaves" were still felt, but there seems to be no evidence of those shockwaves. Drmies (talk) 04:27, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even if that blog/ezine were a reliable source, it's in-depth coverage consists of this: "It looks as if Warped Tour is laying the law down on no moshing or crowdsurfing due to possible lawsuits that could end the festival. What are your thoughts?" 15:33, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete per noms spot on analysis - It's nothing but a huge directory of non notable bands, What can be merged should be merged to Warped Tour, I'm not saying Merge on a whole as it looks like nothing much (If anything!) can merged. –Davey2010 • (talk) 00:48, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete then redirect to parent. There are some unreliable sources that show it existed but nothing to demonstrate notability of this particular tour. The only prose is the lede, the rest is an eye numbing directory. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 01:17, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Dennis Brown Please see my latest comment. While it isn't in this article currently (although i would be more than happy to add it) there are several things that do make 2012 a particularly notable year for the Vans Warped Tour. These things are sourceable (sources given above) and I think make the page worth keeping. Punkrok97 (talk) 02:47, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah add these sources, that post of the argument against the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Encmetalhead (talk • contribs) 12:15, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure how much my opinion counts here, but as a friend of an artist who just played this year's Warped dates on the West Coast, I know that 2012 and 2014 are pretty notable amongst the other years' tours. Specific to 2012, that was an important year because Warped briefly left the States and went to England - something that single-headliner tours do, but is almost never done by festival-style tours like this one. Also, there is some coverage of skate events at this Warped that features important names within that world. Perhaps if these points and the death of the teenager in Toronto were expanded upon in the original article, that might lend credence to the validity of the article? http://www.virtualfestivals.com/latest/news/13505 http://sidewalk.mpora.com/skateboarding-videos/vans-warped-tour-2012-uk-vert-championships-highlights.html Riceflour (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 22:57, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I accept that 2012 was the first time the tour had come to the UK in a decade so that would be some kind of significant event in the tour's history (and after one more UK tour in 2013 it has been cancelled again this year), but my problem is that I struggle to see how even including all this information would be enough to create a decent article once the band line-ups have been taken out. I think it would be only be a paragraph or so long, in which case it would be better off as a section in the main Warped Tour article. Richard3120 (talk) 23:20, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. For years I have relied on WP to receive a faster and updated knowledge of every concert/tour line-ups that I have attended. The actual Warped Tour website have had flaws in the past for the list of bands and dates but thanks to the users who updated the articles on the WP, it was cleared for misconception. I personally know a good amount of friends of mine who would rather rely on WP for festival line-ups rather than the actual website. Yes, set times are announce on the day of the show but set times have nothing to do with this at all. Many of the bands that were announced for the tour are sourced as well as stage placements and stage names that were announced on reliable third party websites before the actual announcement from the tour. Glencoco8995 (talk) 18:19, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:36, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:36, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's funny you say that, all the sources for those bands lists are dead links in the main article. And if the primary source can't get the bands list right, who can you trust? The parent article is a mess of broken links and unreliable sources. It needs an overhaul itself. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 20:54, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If the articles are allowed to stay, we can spearhead the overhaul of the main article and all the separate years. Could we do it now? Yes, but with the threat of the page being blanked again its more wise to wait until the decision before putting in that work. In fact, I'll nominate myself as leader of a revitalization project for this subsection of articles pending that they stay active. Encmetalhead (talk) 22:11, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Each article is its own island. It must demonstrate its own notability, it can't WP:INHERIT it from the parent article. Personally, I would just worry about the parent article (which is a bloody mess) before I even thought of any year articles, which look likely to get deleted. As for nominating "leaders", this isn't a concept I'm familiar with at Wikipedia. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 00:11, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, that's not entirely true. There are spin-off articles allowed to keep very large articles to become unreadably massive. Judging by the length even of this spin-off article, that would seem to be the situation here. Carrite (talk) 02:33, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As mentioned above, such an article as you mention effectively already exists – see List of Warped Tour lineups by year. Which is also completely unreferenced. Richard3120 (talk) 09:02, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And as mentioned above, that is a bloated article and would only become more bloated as time goes on. If each year has it's own article, then no single article would be bloated. Encmetalhead (talk) 12:47, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with this perspective. Carrite (talk) 02:31, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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