Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pak Chol-jin

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to 2010 FIFA World Cup squads#North Korea. There is consensus for a redirect here as an ATD, and per WP:BARTENDER, I'm going with the World Cup squad. I've discounted both keep !votes because they are based on the standard in WP:NFOOTY, which has been removed from WP:NSPORTS (see Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 49#Association football (soccer)). (non-admin closure) voorts (talk/contributions) 01:17, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pak Chol-jin[edit]

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Article fails WP:GNG. Can only find passing mentions in match reports. Redirect to 2010 World Cup squad. Simione001 (talk) 03:23, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of North Korea-related deletion discussions. Simione001 (talk) 03:23, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Simione001 (talk) 03:23, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Simione001 (talk) 03:23, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 13:48, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 14:05, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He has 36 caps for a senior national team and played in a World Cup. Anwegmann (talk) 00:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both irrelevant facts. There are no sources which prove notability in sport and as such the article should be redirect to 2010 World Cup squad or deleted. Simione001 (talk) 00:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @Simione001: I just like to point out that he is listed at both 2011 AFC Asian Cup squads and 2010 FIFA World Cup squads, so redirecting to one or the other would effect the search feature if anyone looks the name up. If deleted with no redirect, people will be able to find his name in both the articles and not be directed to just one. Govvy (talk) 22:01, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 03:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Odd one because WP:NFOOTBALL has been removed from WP:NSPORT but according to the discussion at WP:NFOOTBALLNEW, Players who have played in, and managers who have managed in, any Tier 1 International Match as defined by FIFA was once the guideline for notability which this article meets. Orange sticker (talk) 11:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Orange sticker: - You are basing your keep vote on a failed proposal. WP:NFOOTBALLNEW was rejected. You mustn't make up your own keep/delete criteria. WP:GNG is very clear. Simione001 (talk) 23:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment not quite, the proposal was to change what was referred to as the current guideline (part I quoted) however all guidelines relating to football seem to have been scrapped for reasons I don't know. Might be a good idea to draftify this and similar stubs until the guidelines are clearer? Orange sticker (talk) 08:06, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:GNG is the only criteria that applies. Its very clear. Simione001 (talk) 08:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Simione001: You've nominated over 100 articles in the past few months and they seem to near-exclusively target those from just North Korea - a much underrepresented country whose sources are very difficult to find / use / etc. This systematic destruction of a nation's football history is rather annoying. Why? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:52, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because they are terrible quality articles with next to zero information about the individual. If you actually looked into it, there a quite a few North Korean players which pass WP:GNG so to say this is some kind of systematic destruction of North Korean football is laughable. Simione001 (talk) 23:08, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to 2011 AFC Asian Cup squads#North Korea for his last-known appearance if anyone can't find any significant coverage. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 11:53, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 13:38, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. This is another reason why the changes in notability rules were a bad idea. Getting rid of sport-specific guidelines did a lot of damage. If English Wikipedia wants adequate coverage of football in North Korea and other small countries, the sport-specific guidelines need to be restored. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 16:05, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With the caveat that I only discovered the changes looking into this AfD I have to agree. Seems it will lead to a coverage bias towards countries with more widely understood languages in English speaking countries. I can see plenty of Andorran footballer BLPs, for instance. Orange sticker (talk) 20:20, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NSPORTS has always said that all the subjects must have WP:SIGCOV to pass WP:GNG but that those who passed the sport-specific guidelines were likely to have those significant sources written about them. However, the participation based guidelines NSPORTS were an extremely poor indicator of notability. NFOOTY for instance basically said that if an individual played a single minute in a football match where everybody got paid then said individual was likely notable despite no evidence that it was the case. The blatant misuse of the guidelines to keep articles of modern day players who didn't have a single significant coverage to their name in this golden era of online coverage is probably one of the bigger reasons why the Wikipedia community got fed up and scrapped most of the sport-specific guidelines. If you can't find a source on a modern day individual outside of a database source then the individual likely just isn't notable. Alvaldi (talk) 09:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's so much that people in English-speaking countries may have an understanding of Andorra's language (everyone has access to Google Translate) but that North Korea is an exceptionally secretive nation. I doubt it has specialised sports media in any language, and if it does, it's going to be grossly partisan and inaccurate. There is no private media in Cuba so that would be a similar problem even if millions of US-Americans can read Cuba's language. North Korea is a specific problem when it comes to getting accurate information about anything. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:32, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to North Korea national football team (2010 FIFA World Cup squads#North Korea as a secondary choice) or delete if no consensus is reached in redirecting. I found plenty of trivial mentions of him in match reports but was unable to find WP:SIGCOV to establish a pass of WP:GNG. Best I could find in Korean sources is this but it is not nearly enough. Alvaldi (talk) 09:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.