Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of NBA All-Star Game broadcasters

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 13:26, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of NBA All-Star Game broadcasters[edit]

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WP:NOTTVGUIDE applies here. Also LISTCRUFT (or WP:CRUFT). The subjects are not described as a group, failing WP:LISTN. Also, sources are about the game itself, many of those are YouTube links and none of those assert notability to this list. I also advise them to start a Fandom page if they want to save it so much. SpacedFarmer (talk) 09:57, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television, Basketball, Lists, and United States of America. SpacedFarmer (talk) 09:57, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, with sourcing from [1], [2] and [3]. Esolo5002 (talk) 15:43, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't stop the fact that this is still noting but a directory per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. SpacedFarmer (talk) 15:08, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:LISTCRUFT. Less about WP:NOTTVGUIDE as it doesn't necessarily apply here, but since each broadcast and crew can be covered in each All Star Game, the collection in itself is not notable. Conyo14 (talk) 18:58, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The NBA All-Star Game is the National Basketball Association's big marquee annual event outside of the NBA Finals. Any further relevant information and sources always added to the article (such as through the aid of Google News Archives and what not) that can will help give it more notability. Also, the individual articles for each All-Star Game doesn't specifically specify or identify the exact role for each announcer like the play-by-play announcer, color commentator, sideline reporter, studio host, etc. This is where the lists in particular come into play as its presumably, a simpler and linear way to now about the television and radio broadcasting history and background. BornonJune8 (talk) 10:04, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I said above in case you didn't read, WP:USEFUL covers the point you made. Also, WP:ILIKEIT. SpacedFarmer (talk) 13:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, adding TV listings as sources will not support your argument. This isn't 2004 anymore. SpacedFarmer (talk) 10:10, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @SpacedFarmer: I don't understand your own argument about how adding TV listings as sources will not support my argument. How can you argue that the list previously didn't have enough sources to assert its notability and yet, immediately discount newspaper articles from those exact time periods. To me you can't argue that something needs to be deleted if it's mostly unsourced per WP:RS and then say that said sources like TV listings. Many of the sources that I added thus far by the way, were not simply and just general TV listings (like bullet points), but paragraphed and fairly detailed articles. What does saying that "it isn't 2004 anymore" have to do with anything? I don't exactly get your point and argument there and why that's of any relevance. BornonJune8 (talk) 12:01, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  WP:ROUTINE applies. SpacedFarmer (talk) 11:32, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 14:23, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since this particular article was placed in an AFD, approximately 136 different sources have been added to help boost its notability. Previously, there were about 119 different sources, but now there are approximately 255 in total. Every decade for the All-Star Game on television has now been sourced consistently since at least starting with ABC's first televised All-Star Game in 1968. BornonJune8 (talk) 9:56, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Information about the annual television ratings and viewership averages for the NBA All-Star Game dating back to 1990. Has now been added. BornonJune8 (talk) 8:09, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Lean Keep. Taking a quick look, there seems to be a decent amount of coverage when it comes to the broadcasters for the NBA All-Star Game. BornonJune8 has added also added sources so that it now exceeds 250 references. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:40, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It should be noted that WP:REFBOMBING does not help with determining if this meets the WP:NLIST, rather we need to see the broadcasters discussed as a group. That being said, the nom does seem to be a case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Let'srun (talk) 23:22, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you think that? I was defending my decision to nominate this list for AfD. SpacedFarmer (talk) 07:33, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 07:04, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Subject does not meet the WP:NLIST as the broadcasters aren't discussed as a group in non-primary sources. Willing to change my mind if better sources are found so please ping me if that happens. Let'srun (talk) 15:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's an article from the Orlando Sentinel from 2002 regarding NBC's telecast of the NBA All-Star Game, which is its final NBA All-Star Game telecast to date: NBC SHINES IN ALL-STAR BROADCAST. The 1998 All-Star Game, which was called by Bob Costas, Isiah Thomas, and Bill Walton for NBC, is discussed here. Here's another article that delves into the highest television viewership in NBA All-Star Game history. The viewership/ratings for the 2003 NBA All-Star Game on TNT, the first ever to be broadcast on a cable network is discussed in this article from the New York Times. And here's a rundown from Bill Simmons on ESPN.com about the 1987 NBA All-Star Game, which was televised by CBS. Going back a bit further, here's an article on the 1981 All-Star Game from Cleveland, which was also aired on CBS and had Gary Bender, Bill Russell, and Rick Barry on the call. Before CBS, ABC held the network television rights to the NBA, and here's an article from NBA.com on the 1973 All-Star Game from Chicago that was called by Chris Schenkel and Bill Russell. BornonJune8 (talk) 09:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It should be in an article about broadcasting in NBA All-Star Games, not a list about a list of NBA All-Star Game broadcasters. SpacedFarmer (talk) 09:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. These sources would be perfect for an article discussing the history of broadcasting in regards to this game. Let'srun (talk) 20:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is an article about broadcasting in NBA All-Star Games and its overall history to begin with. That's pretty much the whole point or intent in my estimation or perspective. I don't exactly understand or get what point that you're trying to make. Unless, you're saying that there should be more context/information behind the individual network coverage of any given year beyond simply listing names. Besides, there's already a more broad-scale article on the history of the National Basketball Association on television that has a section on the All-Star Game. While it does list the networks and viewership totals since 1990, it doesn't specific the the names of the commentators (play-by-play, analysts, hosts, etc.) for the respective years. BornonJune8 (talk) 23:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, as another editor said elsewhere, a list can serve valid navigational purpose and not have sources discussing all entries as a group. Here are a collection of pieces that perhaps, does exactly what you ask: The NBA in the 1970s: Roone’s Revenge, NBC’s NBA Nostalgia Play, Hoop Streams: The Rise of the NBA, Multiplatform Television, and Sports as Media Content, 1982 to 2015, The NBA Strategy of Broadcast Television Exposure, 5 Highly Improbable Facts About The History Of the NBA On TV, THE NBA ON NETWORK TELEVISION: A HISTORICAL ANALYSIS BornonJune8 (talk) 23:16, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

would be perfect for an article discussing the history of broadcasting in regards to this game – Then move it, don't delete it and require it to be started completely all over. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:LISTCRUFT ,fails WP:LISTN.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Not seeing the problem here. KatoKungLee (talk) 00:53, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.