Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Israel Ticona

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. There seems to be contradicatory understanding of whether or not WP:NPOL is satisfied here that would warrant a discussion on a policy talk page. And I just have to add that this is a terrible, just terrible deletion rationale. If I had seen it when this AFD was first posted, I might have done a procedural close just based on that alone. Liz Read! Talk! 06:10, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Israel Ticona[edit]

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Israel Ticona (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Unimportant person with little information available. BlakeIsHereStudios (talk) 03:45, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep a Deputy Minister is important and there’s available information in RS, but his article needs a lot of work. _-_Alsor (talk) 10:27, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as no-nnotable for WP. And Strong objection to nom's wording "unimportant person". Nobody in the world is unimportant. Being non-notable for Wikipedia is not the same thing. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - as a deputy minister he must surely have been an office-holding politician in a national government and so meets WP:NPOL (which presumably the nom hasn't read) - more refs wouldn't go amiss but not appropriate to delete.Ingratis (talk) 12:51, 2 March 2024 (UTC) (see below for why I'm still keeping the Keep) Ingratis (talk) 18:06, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, although I'm willing to reconsider if somebody can actually locate stronger evidence of notability than the article shows. A deputy minister isn't necessarily an NPOL-passing politician — it can also be a civil service role held by an unelected bureaucrat, so it's in no sense "inherently" notable without more substance and sourcing than this. But the footnotes exist almost entirely in the context of his fatal car accident, with virtually no evidence of any career coverage about his work in the role shown at all, which means we can't just presume notability that hasn't been adequately supported. We can't extend him "inherent" notability under NPOL #1 unless we can actually find evidence that he actually held a role that would pass NPOL #1 — a deputy minister may be a member of the legislature in some places and an unelected bureaucrat in others, so we would need to properly verify that he was ever actually in the legislature rather than just assuming that he was. Bearcat (talk) 15:45, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, you're right - he was a lawyer, not a politician, and apparently appointed. Nevertheless, a Deputy Minister is not nothing and he gets a biography of reasonable length in the press: [1]. Also, his death was not just a random traffic accident but directly caused by his exercise of his duties, and receives a lot of press overage. So I'm going to stay with Keep. Ingratis (talk) 18:06, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Delete or keep?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 06:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete This basically fails WP:MEMORIAL. It's flagrantly unclear to me as to whether deputy ministers pass NPOL, but I wouldn't assume so considering they are deputies, and his unfortunate early death appears to have just been one event and not WP:LASTING (the coverage of him while alive doesn't appear to be significant coverage of him.) SportingFlyer T·C 16:50, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'd probably lean towards a Bolivian Vice-Minister's position not satisfying NPOL. These are sub-cabinet level positions, appointed by ministers without assembly approval. We've had discussion before regarding NPOL and deputy ministers in presidential systems: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Faruk Kaymakcı. No prejudice against possibility of satisfying the GNG/BIO. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 07:55, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - as per SergeWoodzing's comment.  Mr.choppers | ✎  11:04, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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