User talk:Smefs

April 2024

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at True North Centre for Public Policy. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Fred Zepelin (talk) 05:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Fred,

I appreciate your concern, but neither of my edits meet the criteria of being considered "disruptive" so I will be adding them back. My first edit simply changed the text to match the information in the provided source. My second edit removed information totally irrelevant to the section it was in. This is fairly obvious and not really up for debate, so I don't see why a snarky talk page comment is necessary. Thanks anyway. Smefs (talk) 06:57, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

May 2024

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for making personal attacks towards other editors. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  Acroterion (talk) 22:45, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Smefs (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

I'd like to understand exactly what I did to warrant a block? The user Fred Zepelin is not acting in good faith and I think that is fairly obvious. The user has been hounding me WP:HOUND and making bad faith edits to every single page I am active in based on my disagreement with him over a fairly innocuous line in a page on a Canadian right-wing think tank. Based on the massive volume of posts accusing this user of the same thing User_talk:Fred_Zepelin, I think it is fairly reasonable to call the guy a "fucking nutter" is a bit of an understatement and certainly does not warrant being called a "personal attack" or "harassment." I am not an experienced user and I don't pretend to be. With all due respect I have better things to do than edit war on Wikipedia all day. I find it pretty disturbing, though, that a more experienced user who obviously is not acting in good faith and is in fact editing according to his own political beliefs and not what souces state, and has been actively harassing inexperienced users for years, including by dogpiling and using meatpuppets (WP:MEAT) is allowed to continue doing so. Of course, I am instantly blocked for calling him out and being rightfully angry. Why? I am genuinely curious what your justification is.Smefs (talk) 23:00, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Decline reason:

Even if you are absolutely correct, and I don't think you are- we don't fight fire with fire here. There are proper channels to address bad behavior. Your behavior is totally inappropriate for any public, civil forum. I am declining your request. 331dot (talk) 00:22, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Have you already forgotten this? [1]? Acroterion (talk) 23:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I commented on that in my original appeal. Please respond to it.Smefs (talk) 23:06, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Then that's your answer. And I will remove talkpage access if you do anything like that again. Attacks on other editors are not considered in unblock requests. Acroterion (talk) 23:09, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

You have been blocked temporarily from editing for abuse of editing privileges. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. In addition, your ability to edit your talk page has also been revoked.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then submit a request to the Unblock Ticket Request System.  Acroterion (talk) 23:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Propaganda in the Rhodesian Bush War‎. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Final warning. Fred Zepelin (talk) 00:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Nutter

That you do not see insults as a form of personal attack precludes unblocking you. You made other personal attacks in unblock requests, including UTRS appeal #88346 Perhaps you were not paying attention when 331dot wrote, "attacks on other editors are not considered in unblock requests." My only regret is that the block is only for one week. Thanks, -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:42, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Actually,it was me. And I too regret that the block isn't longer, but I will leave it as is is and offer Smefs the opportunity to change their behavior, with this warning: any recurrence of attacks on other editors will result in an indefinite block. Please take us seriously in this, personal umbrage at being disagreed with doesn't justify your behavior, and we won't allow you to edit this collaborative encyclopedia project if you keep on behaving as if other editors are enemies. Acroterion (talk) 12:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Possible block evasion

@Deepfriedokra: @Acroterion: seems likely to me that the editor evaded their block with this edit from an IP address. Given the edit summary, the fact that the article was extremely obscure (and an orphan at the time, with no other articles linking to it) and the edit being done to revert my changes after the blocked editor reverted a host of my other recent edits, the circumstantial evidence is strong. Apparently checkuser is not allowed to link accounts and IP addresses, which I learned when I requested one. Fred Zepelin (talk) 18:39, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

That's pretty old (three days) and a one-off. I'll let it ride. @Smefs: If that was you, you are playing with fire. Careful lest you burn yourself. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Back and edit warring again

@Deepfriedokra: @Acroterion: Fresh off their one-week block, Smefs has returned to edit-war on an edit that I made to Propaganda in the Rhodesian Bush War after I found a secondary source for a section. Twice, so far. Fred Zepelin (talk) 21:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

@Fred Zepelin: If they exceed three reverts in 24 hours, you might want to report at WP:EWN. @Smefs: You certainly like to tempt fate, don't you. Please stop. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:03, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Anticipating such a revert pattern, I have opened a discussion on the talk page in an attempt to stave off exactly that. Fred Zepelin (talk) 22:06, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Also just noticed that they went to back to Hin Bredendieck to force in their edits of Bredendieck being a student of Josef Albers. Of note, they previously indicated that they were related to Bredendieck, calling him a "late great-granduncle". Possible COI. Fred Zepelin (talk) 22:07, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I edited it and provided a reliable secondary source. I don't see what your problem is? Also, you already posted (multiple times) about your false COI allegations which multiple people have claimed are completely ridiculous. You're wrong, man.Smefs (talk) 07:47, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

This is not at all accurate. You used a blog-like website as the source. In your own words, you stated "links I've made to my late great-granduncle's page" - those are your own words. You have made the assertion that "multiple people have claimed are completely ridiculous" in regards to this COI, but no one has said this, anywhere. Fred Zepelin (talk) 00:58, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

"You have made the assertion that "multiple people have claimed are completely ridiculous" in regards to this COI, but no one has said this, anywhere." Lol.

Translating a Wikipedia page (which already existed) of a notable relative is not COI, no matter how much you want it to be. Sorry bud.Smefs (talk) 12:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt:, from WP:GERMANY has already commented on this by the way, as you've posted multiple times with the same question they've graciously answered. I don't see why you keep bringing it up -- it's a non-issue.Smefs (talk) 08:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Also a misrepresentation. Gerda_Arendt added many things to the Hin Bredendieck article, but never added that Hin Bredendieck was a student of Albers. You added that. Just you. My question at WP:GERMANY was about the notability of the subject, not Albers. These half-truths from you are disturbing. Fred Zepelin (talk) 00:58, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

I'd be careful with those accusations lest you get blocked. Either way, any impartial analysis would find it's probably you spreading half truths. Either you completely misread my comment or are intentionally misinterpreting it. I wonder which.

I never claimed that Gerda_Arendt made the Josef Albers edits (which I have been vindicated for anyway after you posted greyscape to the RS page). That's nowhere in my comment. What I said is that Gerda_Arendt commented on the false COI issue (more than once, actually) you keep bringing up and basically discounted it as irrelevant. It is so obviously a resolved issue I don't see why you think continuously bringing it up will change anything.Smefs (talk) 13:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Did you, or did you not, state that Hin Bredendieck is your "late great-granduncle"? Fred Zepelin (talk) 18:11, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not "tempting fate." I'm editing a collaborative encyclopedia project and providing reliable secondary sources and ensuring neutral point of view. Smefs (talk) 07:49, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

ANI May 2024

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Fred Zepelin (talk) 20:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

May 2024

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for making personal attacks towards other editors.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

I'd also like to ping @Deepfriedokra: for a second opinion on this since he seems more familiar with Fred Zepelin's behaviorSmefs (talk) 23:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

yeah, no. I have nothing to offer here. I have no familiarity.-- Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:46, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

This user is asking that their block be reviewed:

Smefs (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

If this is about me claiming that Fred Zepelin was attempting to whitewash massacres, I'd like to know why that isn't true? Again, it's not a personal attack. The user has changed language discrediting proven massacres committed by paramilitary groups against Black Zimbabweans as "alleged" and removed reliable, documented links to the articles of said massacres. This is clear violation of Wikipedia's [policy against whitewashing.] Is it a personal insult to call this what it is? I honestly do not understand, but I'm a relatively new user so I may be incorrect. Smefs (talk) 22:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Notes:

• In some cases, you may not in fact be blocked, or your block has already expired. Please check the list of active blocks. If no block is listed, then you have been autoblocked by the automated anti-vandalism systems. Please remove this request and follow these instructions instead for quick attention by an administrator.
• Please read our guide to appealing blocks to make sure that your unblock request will help your case. You may change your request at any time.

Administrator use only:

If you ask the blocking administrator to comment on this request, replace this template with the following, replacing "blocking administrator" with the name of the blocking admin:

{{Unblock on hold |1=blocking administrator |2= If this is about me claiming that Fred Zepelin was attempting to whitewash massacres, I'd like to know why that isn't true? Again, it's not a personal attack. The user has changed language discrediting proven massacres committed by paramilitary groups against Black Zimbabweans as "alleged" and removed reliable, documented links to the articles of said massacres. This is clear violation of Wikipedia's [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV_means_neutral_editing,_not_neutral_content#Censorship_and_whitewashing| policy against whitewashing.]] Is it a personal insult to call this what it is? I honestly do not understand, but I'm a relatively new user so I may be incorrect. [[User:Smefs|Smefs]] ([[User talk:Smefs#top|talk]]) 22:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC) |3 = ~~~~}}

If you decline the unblock request, replace this template with the following code, substituting {{subst:Decline reason here}} with a specific rationale. Leaving the decline reason unchanged will result in display of a default reason, explaining why the request was declined.

{{unblock reviewed |1= If this is about me claiming that Fred Zepelin was attempting to whitewash massacres, I'd like to know why that isn't true? Again, it's not a personal attack. The user has changed language discrediting proven massacres committed by paramilitary groups against Black Zimbabweans as "alleged" and removed reliable, documented links to the articles of said massacres. This is clear violation of Wikipedia's [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV_means_neutral_editing,_not_neutral_content#Censorship_and_whitewashing| policy against whitewashing.]] Is it a personal insult to call this what it is? I honestly do not understand, but I'm a relatively new user so I may be incorrect. [[User:Smefs|Smefs]] ([[User talk:Smefs#top|talk]]) 22:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC) |decline = {{subst:Decline reason here}} ~~~~}}

If you accept the unblock request, replace this template with the following, substituting Accept reason here with your rationale:

{{unblock reviewed |1= If this is about me claiming that Fred Zepelin was attempting to whitewash massacres, I'd like to know why that isn't true? Again, it's not a personal attack. The user has changed language discrediting proven massacres committed by paramilitary groups against Black Zimbabweans as "alleged" and removed reliable, documented links to the articles of said massacres. This is clear violation of Wikipedia's [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV_means_neutral_editing,_not_neutral_content#Censorship_and_whitewashing| policy against whitewashing.]] Is it a personal insult to call this what it is? I honestly do not understand, but I'm a relatively new user so I may be incorrect. [[User:Smefs|Smefs]] ([[User talk:Smefs#top|talk]]) 22:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC) |accept = accept reason here ~~~~}}

Then here, since I would like a second opinion @David Eppstein: Smefs (talk) 23:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Smefs (talk) 22:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

yeah, no. I have nothing to offer here. I have no familiarity. (as was said above) —David Eppstein (talk) 00:25, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Where can I get an admin who can add a second opinion/ reply to my post?Smefs (talk) 00:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

An administrator will review your unblock request when one gets around to it, although it's normally not too long. I recommend you read WP:GAB and rewrite your unblock request. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I did read it. I still fail to see how what I did warrants a block. I genuinely don't understand. Smefs (talk) 00:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I do not respond to emails about blocks unless there is a pressing concern that requires privacy. If you don't see how this is an unacceptable personal attack or is unlikely you will be unblocked. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:09, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I am asking you to please humor me and point me to where in Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks my comment conflicts? This is not intended in bad faith. I am legitimately confused. I have read it over multiple times and cannot find any conflicts with what I said. I genuinely believe Fred Zepelin's actions violate Wikipedia's policy against whitewashing. This is not a personal attack, it's a genuine critique of his actions. I feel like I have to say it again but I actually, really, do not know what I did wrong and would love to understand. Smefs (talk) 15:23, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

WP:NPA says Insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done. What you said is clearly covered. What you're linking to as a "policy against whitewashing" is clearly labeled This page is not an encyclopedia article, nor is it one of Wikipedia's policies or guidelines, as it has not been thoroughly vetted by the community. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:29, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I feel as though I've extensively clarified that it was not an insult or disparaging. I was not insulting Fred Zepelin or his character, I was simply attempting to describe in as neutral language as I could possibly manage his behavior. It was, again, not in bad faith. To me, it feels like your interpretation of Wikipedia policy against harassment is so impossibly broad that it discourages any sort of fair discourse on other editors' actions and requires being applied unfairly to be enforced at all. I do not think this block could survive any sort of scrutiny at all.

Also, I feel like it is an understandable misinterpretation to assume an article with a section called "Policy against whitewashing" is an effective part of Wikipedia policy. Again, I am not an experienced user and I'd ask you to please extend some understanding towards that.

Thanks,

Smefs (talk) 15:39, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

This is a very disappointing response. If whitewashing were a more explicit policy, that would increase your responsibility to back up accusations with evidence, not decrease it. I can accuse somene of liking artificial banana flavoring because being guilty of that offends nobody, breaks no rules, and has no reputational consequence. But if I'm accusing someone of acting in a racist, or a misogynistic, or homophobic, or whatever fashion, a charge that serious requires evidence that's serious.

The standard of backing up accusations, especially one that could cause Fred Zepelin significant on-wiki reputational damage, is not some obscure Wikipedia standard. It's a "being a decent, functioning person in a society who can interact with other humans" standard. Accusing someone of something bad without evidence in proportionality to the offense is not impossibly broad and doing so is not neutral. WP:NPA is policy and WP:AGF is a guideline.

I'm sorry, if you feel that accusing people of awful things without robust evidence in order to win a content dispute is a normal thing, then you're incompatible with this project whether or not that was your first day editing or your 5,000th. You accused someone of seeking to cover up people being able to learn about mass murder, some of the blackest things that humanity has done. This is not a "oopsy daisy, I'm just inexperienced!" moment.

I say all of this as a completely uninvolved editor, who has never even read the article in question until now and as far as I know, have never had a single interaction with anyone here who isn't an admin. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 16:12, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your response but you are acting as if I have never backed these accusations up when I have many, many, times. If you'd like me to do so again, here:

Fred Zepelin has removed extensive amounts of information on the actions of ZANLA and ZIPRA paramilitary groups, and refers to their atrocities as "alleged" despite them being extensively, extensively documented by both sources on the page and on other articles, including with horrific photographic evidence.

These are not random, unfounded accusations, and I am well aware that they are not lighthearted ones. I feel like I have a responsibility to describe things for what they are, and to me this feels like "...seeking to cover up people being able to learn about mass murder, some of the blackest things that humanity has done," which is why I am so persistent in my opposition to his actions.

This also cannot be considered in isolation. Fred Zepelin originally found this article because we had a dispute multiple weeks ago, and he has continued to hound my page, going back months to find edits I made and undoing them. This includes the Zimbabwe article. I hope you understand that it is incredibly difficult for me to WP:AGF when this user has dedicated themselves to stalking my page for weeks on end for no reason. This is also a pattern of behavior that other users have complained about. (1, 2, 3)

Thanks for your response nonetheless,

Smefs (talk) 16:27, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Whitewashing implies a motive. That has to be backed up. There are many, many reasons for content to be removed; you can't just assume the most negative one. That's the very foundation of WP:AGF and until you understand what the difference is, I can't imagine any admin will unblock you. Best wishes; I hope you're able to smoothly return to editing. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 17:54, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Could it not be easily backed up by some guy with a lot of time on his hands just wanting to screw with me for insisting on edits he disliked? That makes sense to me. I have to say that I'm not usually a confrontational person, and again, I have tried my very best to assume good faith. Do you not agree that this can become difficult to do if a user shows consistent evidence of hounding and harassment?Smefs (talk) 19:15, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

A lot of people have reviewed your claims and found no evidence of what you say. Your simple belief, asserted stridently, does not constitute evidence.

In any case, this is an unproductive conversation, so I won't bother you any more. My hope was to talk you off the ledge so to speak, in order for you to have your best chance at eventually getting unblocked and being able to return to editing. So as I said above, all I can do is wish you the best. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 21:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I won't continue to argue, but I'd like to give some guiding questions to you or anyone else reading this:

Is it a simple belief? Is there not sufficient evidence to determine bad faith? Have "a lot of people" really reviewed my claims? Can you not find a significant amount of evidence that I repeatedly provided in the thread above and in many, many other places to constitute "sufficient evidence" that Fred Zepelin is a bad faith, harassing user who is, in fact, engaging in what could be amounted, depending on your perspective, to the whitewashing of genuine massacres in which many people were killed, solely as revenge in an edit war? I think that if you were to look at the evidence objectively, you'd find the answer to all of these questions is "no."

Either way, have a good one. I do appreciate your input.

Smefs (talk) Smefs (talk) 22:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I legitimately do not understand how I can assume good faith from this user when they have shown the pattern of behavior that they have. Smefs (talk) 19:28, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't know whether my reply is necessary (probably irrelevant), but I've been reading Smefs' accusations of whitewashing and I do feel compelled to point out that even that line of attack has no basis in reality, as I know most people don't have time to dig through that article history. My edit to a single section about a specific propaganda booklet was because when I read the section, I noticed the only source was the booklet itself (ie a primary source). I looked for a reliable secondary source, found one, and updated the section with that source and some verbiage summarizing that source. I made zero judgements about any atrocities, genocides, or anything related, by any groups. Just added some text about a single booklet that was distributed by one of the sides in that conflict. Like I said, probably irrelevant, because the problem with Smefs is deeper than a single edit war, but I did want to set that straight: the whitewashing accusation is completely unfounded at best, and just an outright lie at worst. Fred Zepelin (talk) 19:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

The inclusion of the second source is completely irrelevant to your edits. Your edits did not add information. They simply disqualified the actions committed by the ZANLA and ZIPRA forces. It is so plain to see that you did make clear judgements -- changing wording to "alleged," removing important information on the documentation of these atrocities, etc. You are attempting to hide behind the addition of a single secondary source through which no additional information was gleaned to justify your unfounded edits.

When you say that "the problem with Smefs is deeper than a single edit war," you are implying that I am the one who is continuing this. It implies that I am the one who is interested in this. I am not, and it's upsetting that you're mischaracterizing it in this way. I have no interest in continuing this conflict, but Fred Zepelin has been going through my page, constantly, in clear violation of Wikipedia conduct, in what I can only assume to be an extended campaign just to fuck with me. This is a clear case of a bad faith editor. In this case, he is not interested in clarifying truth and spreading knowledge -- he has a personal vendetta against me for some strange reason and is seeking some weird sort of revenge by harassing and hounding my page. I've said so on your talk page (which you have removed, repeatedly) but I'll say it again: I want you to leave me alone. This is a clear pattern of obsessive behavior which (before you removed it all) is shown through your Talk page. It isn't healthy and is honestly incredibly frustrating to deal with.

@Fred Zepelin, please read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Harassment#Wikihounding

Smefs (talk) 19:26, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I'd like to make it clear: I will not be visiting this talk page again. Good luck to you. Fred Zepelin (talk) 19:29, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I do not care if you visit this talk page again. I want you to leave me alone -- remove your bookmark to my contribs, whatever. I will be filing a harassment notice if you do not do so. Smefs (talk) 19:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

This user is, by the way, continuing to hound me and harass me despite the fact that I am currently blocked (for little cause, might I add). I'd just like to note this to document his bad faith behavior and ask him for the nth time to leave me the fuck alone. This is beyond unhealthy and shows serious signs of obsession. Smefs (talk) 00:20, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

How long should I expect to wait for an administrator to review and undo this block? Smefs (talk) 00:22, 23 May 2024 (UTC)