User talk:LukasSimeone

UAE Wadis

Hi Lukas

You're adding a lot of information on UAE wadis from a non-reliable source - GeoView. While it might be useful in conjunction with other sources, it's giving you some very spurious Wadi names (as well as some annoying transliteration marks that really don't add value in the English Wikipedia) - we've previously had huge issues cleaning up hundreds of defunct and wrong place names in the UAE added by an editor using an outdated Gazeteer which resulted in 'false positives' - whole communities on Wikipedia that didn't exist in real life. I'm afraid you're doing much the same thing - for instance, the Wadi Halu, a tributary of the Wadi Naqab. I don't know if you've ever been up the Wadi Naqab, I have - many times. And there is no recognised Wadi Halu that I've ever seen. There is also no mention of a Wadi Halu in any reliable source (newspaper, scientific journal, book). Unless you can find reliable sources for new geographical information, I'd ask if you could perhaps consider not adding this information from GeoView and even perhaps undoing the entries you've made using GeoView in favour of a more reliable source than a publicly editable, Wiki-style database??? Thank you! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:28, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Alexander, for your message.

My main interest is to provide reliable names, data and sources.

My original source is British maps (The National Archives. London). Those that were made by J. Walker from 1958, to prepare the borders of the different emirates, and those that were made by various military battalions of topographers, taking Walker's references.

In the lists I add names that are contrasted. They may not be known today, but they are the real names. The reference to geoview is one of several you could provide, but it doesn't seem necessary to elaborate on it.

I also know Wadi Naqab well.

Naturally, I can be wrong in some specific case, and if so, I am willing to correct it immediately.

The Wadi Halu is a tributary to the right of the Wadi Naqab, it runs from north to south, parallel to and very close to the Wadi Muhayli.

I try to contribute, with my means and my time, information and positive data.

I have not removed any names from the list, despite the fact that in some cases I know they are wrong.

Over time I will upload more information through the wiki, but this is a simple list, which can serve as a reference to continue expanding the names of the many wadis in the Emirates.

I ask you, please, a little patience.

Thank you so much LukasSimeone (talk) 16:33, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

The depopulation of many villages and towns in the Emirates, after independence, and the replacement of their primitive inhabitants by natives from other countries, has meant that they have lost a good part of the toponymic tradition, and today, many inhabitants of villages and small towns, they don't really even know the name of their town.

Let me give you an example: I spent a whole day walking around Wadi Ghalilah, in the dam area, and speaking in English, Arabic and Urdu with its inhabitants. I interviewed about 25-30 people (everyone I found), and no one could tell me where Wadi Litibah was.

I don't know if you will agree with me, but that has happened to me many times in other wadis and villages.

Toponymy does not seem to be a strong subject in the UAE, and I understand this, for the reasons mentioned above.

Wikipedia gives us the opportunity to offer many readers the opportunity to get to know those names that in many cases have been lost.

A hug LukasSimeone (talk) 16:56, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Hey Lucas - this is the core problem we faced a few years back. An admin by the name of John Carter (now blocked) used a US Gazetteer to slam in a couple hundred pages of UAE 'places'. That gazetteer was based on a UAE early 1970s gazetteer which itself was derived from 1958 surveys of the interior by Trucial Oman Scouts - the base work used by Julian Walker. So we had place names no longer in use, villages that had been subsumed into urban areas and, in many cases, what would appear to be the answers given by puzzled bedouin when approached by a couple of twits in puttees and shorts asking them what this place was called. 'Sweet (nice) wadi' they might have said and so a 'place' was born and after years in Wikipedia those 'places' got scraped by Careem, Uber, Talabat and many, many other emerging ecommerce companies and 'Wadi Hilu' in the mountains above RAK became 'A city in the UAE' with significant Google hits. I discovered this when I found the place I used to live in Sharjah (Al Heera) was spelled wrong in WP. The cleanup took weeks and a huge amount of effort - over 150 duff places erased, one by one, through the Articles for Deletion process. I'm concerned that we're going back there by adding in place names from Walker's survey or non-reliable sources like GeoView (which would derive its place names from precisely the same bad source as Carter did). They don't exist now, they aren't recognised place names and they are not notable in their own right. By adding them in, you're just perpetuating the same problem - the creation of a UAE that simply doesn't exist today. WP is a reference, an encyclopedia - it doesn't exist to preserve an historic record or lost toponyms. A contemporary, reliable published source should be used to establish that a place or geographic feature exists to at least a basic standard of notability. That doesn't mean Google Maps, BTW - a source like William and Fidelity Lancaster's Honour is in Contentment for instance, would provide a great starting point and could then be used with more modern published - reliable sources, not Wikis - maps (the University of Al Ain publishes 'The National Atlas of the United Arab Emirates', which is insanely compendious. But Julian Walker was something like 60 years ago, in a country that has been utterly transformed from the ground up in that time. Far from informing people about lost place names, my fear is that you will contribute to perpetuating misinformation based on archaic sources. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 06:15, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying, Alexander.

I didn't know about Carter, but I'm afraid the reality is that the same thing is happening now, with the names of many villages, mountains and wadis: people don't really know what they are called, and no matter how long it's been, it's more Probably the toponymy identified by J. Walker, from direct sources, when the villages were still populated with their primitive inhabitants, not the toponymy that is being invented now.

If there were official, very detailed maps, as they exist in other countries, these problems would not arise, but for one reason or another, such maps do not exist in the UAE.

Some of the villages and wadis are being identified with names invented by mountaineers (for example, the case of Woh, to name the village of Ras Ash, or Ras Al Ghash.

The case of Wadi Shah, for which I see that you have been interested, is another example of the great confusion that exists at the moment in the names of places.

I find Geoview, GeoNames, Mundat, and other geodata pages much more reliable than a blog post by a yoga enthusiast hiker who fell in love with a place she thought was the primitive village of Shah, in a wadi that he believed was the Wadi Shah, when in reality, neither the abandoned village nor the wadi was called, nor is it called that way.

It is true that, especially in the coastal strip (and that is possibly what happened to Wadi Halu, and other wadis close to the coast), the growth of towns, new roads, factories, quarries and company buildings have changed The physiognomy of the territory is very much, and new names have emerged, and others have disappeared.

I don't think it's bad. The place names can change over time.

What is more worrying, in my opinion, is the rest of the abandoned or semi-abandoned villages. abandoned inland, mountains and wadis, for which the historical reference to their name has been lost, and there is no substitute.

The original citizens of Pakistan, who now inhabit these villages, do not know the local language, communicate very little or not at all with the citizens of the Emirates, and have only been living in the UAE for 9 or 10 years. They don't even know the names of their villages, let alone the wadis and mountains..

In those cases, what problem would there be in giving credibility to old sources? (J.Walker, topographical maps from the 70s, etc.)

In most countries, Wikipedia does not accept a blog as a reliable source, and yet In the UAE, hikers' blogs and propaganda from tourism companies are being accepted as reliable sources, while objective and neutral sources like the ones mentioned above are being rejected.

If you see that at any time I publish a fact or a name, with which you do not agree, please tell me. I am willing to confront the sources, and rectify if necessary, but please, do not simply reject the sources of published databases and maps, giving credibility to company propaganda pages, or hiker blogs, which lack sources reliable. Google maps is not a very reliable source either; contains many errors.

A hug LukasSimeone (talk) 20:55, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

I absolutely agree on Google maps. But banging redundant/archaic place names into WP based on 60/70 year old sources and unreliable open-access sources like GeoNames (which, as I've said, quite possibly use incorrect information from Wikipedia before it was corrected isn't helpful, IMHO. If you find hiker blogs being used as sources, you're quite right to remove them and flag the info with a citeneeded template or delete it. But saving old place names isn't Wikipedia's mission - WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS very much applies here and so does WP:GEOLAND - WP isn't the place to preserve the name of an abandoned settlement of no notability (WP:GNG). Good, well-sourced information is the name of the game! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 08:56, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Jabal ar Rahrah has been accepted

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Wikieditor019 (talk) 11:37, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wadi Jib has been nominated for deletion

Category:Wadi Jib has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Bearcat (talk) 12:25, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Ras Ash moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Ras Ash, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three, or a link to an official government source showing it is a legally recognized populated place. This article has zero. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:26, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Yinainir moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Yinainir, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three, to be safe. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:35, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Yinainir (also written as Yinainir, Yinēnīr, ينينير ) is well documented on multiple UAE historical maps.

The National Atlas of the United Arab Emirates, collects this place name and refers to this town, with the spelling of Yinēnīr, as I point out in the article, and is also cited as a town of importance to the Bani Idaid tribal section.

Yinainir is an important town, from the anthropological point of view. Edward F. Henderson, in his report "Tribes of Trucial States coast", expressly points out Yinainir as an important reference village for another major Shihuh section: the Bani Hadiyah (Arabic: بني هدية), Bani Idaid tribal area.

I think Yinainir deserves to be published on the English Wikipedia.

I ask you, please, to withdraw it from the draft, and to publish it again.

Thank you so much LukasSimeone (talk) 14:38, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

This goes back to my comments to you some time ago. Content on Wikipedia these days needs to be well sourced - and a 60-year-old survey of the Emirates is not a good source. Yinainir is NOT a town of importance in the Emirates today. I would beg of you to pause and reconsider the many additions you are making to Wikipedia based on marginal open-source geographical sites that base their spurious content on this archaic and often now irrelevant data. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 18:51, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your message, Alexander.

I am very sorry that you think so. I supposed that a person who loves history and archeology, like you, would have a greater sensitivity when dealing with this type of matter.

I recommend you pay a visit to Yinainir. In recent years the path to Musaibat has been greatly improved, and from there to Yinainir there is no path, but it is not difficult to get there. What I do suggest is that you do not go through Wadi Arus, as it is quite difficult and dangerous.

The path from Lahsa to Musaibat, following the Wadi Lahsa, is much better, and from there to Yinainir is in good condition.

Every week Yinainir receives visits from dozens of trekkers, and unfortunately, they pass through the village without even knowing its name. Some people improperly call it Shah (confusing it with the old town of Shah that is on the slopes of Jabal Rahabah); others also improperly call it Khammed.

Apparently, it matters little that Al Ain - United Arab Emirates University itself has confirmed in its Atlas that the real name is Yinainir. If we all don't make an effort to divulge her name and her past, she will continue to be ignored and confused by her visitors. Wikipedia in English is a great source to help spread the word about these places that represented a lot for the tribes that inhabited them until a few years ago.

I am not an archaeologist, but I am a historian and geographer, and it makes me very sad to pass by the old villages (most of them uninhabited), with countless clay utensils and buildings that represent a lot for the historical memory of their former inhabitants and their families. Yinainir even has a large cemetery.

That is part of the history of the United Arab Emirates.

In 2018, you and the user Onel5969 participated in the removal of about thirty pages that had been incorporated from a Gazetta, including Yinainir.

I am not going to discuss the reasons for that removal.

From what I have seen, there was a sufficient underlying reason, and that is that regardless of their name, those pages barely had content and references.

This is not the case with the current page of Yinainir and others that with great effort and a lot of work I have been preparing and publishing. They are not archaic or open source sources. They are real and current, although they may not be too well known

I don't usually interfere in other people's publications, except if I think I can contribute something positive.

I have seen some pages in which you have participated, some of them with no more than three lines of text, that are still published, and that are supported by erroneous sources, and with erroneous data, and yet, I have not said anything, and I have respected their work, and that of the people who have contributed to their publication, with the hope of being able to help improve them at some point.

In the coming months I intended to continue writing on the English Wikipedia, about twenty wadis, villages and mountains that I know very well, and that could serve to enrich the information that the English Wikipedia offers about the United Arab Emirates, but this from Yinainir It demoralizes me a lot.

If Yinainir's page isn't reinstated, I think I'll take his advice, and stop posting on English Wikipedia for a while. Maybe you post the same content in French, Spanish, Arabic, or any other language. Or perhaps I simply dedicate myself to writing newspaper articles and books.

Do you really think all this is good for wikipedia?

A big hug LukasSimeone (talk) 23:08, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Ras Ash

A tag has been placed on Category:Ras Ash indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:53, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Yinainir

A tag has been placed on Category:Yinainir indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:04, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Wadi Jib moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Wadi Jib, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three, to be safe. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 11:52, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Wadi Barut moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Wadi Barut, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three, to be safe. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:49, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

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Concern regarding Draft:Yinainir

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Concern regarding Draft:Wadi Jib

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Concern regarding Draft:Wadi Barut

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Your draft article, Draft:Ras Ash

Hello, LukasSimeone. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Ras Ash".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:31, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Yinainir

Hello, LukasSimeone. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Yinainir".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:33, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Jabal ar Rahrah

A tag has been placed on Category:Jabal ar Rahrah indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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MOS:SANDWICH

Hello, per the manual of style it's not good style to have images/an infobox on both sides of text in an article - it should be one or the other. I've reverted some of your recent edits that don't follow this. MOS:SANDWICH BrigadierG (talk) 17:46, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi LukasSimeone. Thank you for your work on Wadi Nahela. Another editor, SunDawn, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Good day! Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia by writing this article. I have marked the article as reviewed. Have a wonderful and blessed day for you and your family!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|SunDawn}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 03:14, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Good day! Thank you so much for your work. That encourages me to continue writing more articles. LukasSimeone (talk) 20:04, 8 May 2024 (UTC)