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[–]Badonkadonk6969 58 points59 points  (8 children)

TIL that I am the only one that wants to die for two days during a hangover.

[–]-AestheticsOfHate- 15 points16 points  (4 children)

lol right? Wish I felt good with a hangover, I get terribly depressed for 2-4 days afterwards

[–]Chakosa 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Yeah hangovers tend to make me extremely emotional/sensitive (i.e everything makes me cry or want to cry) and I return to normal the next day, really curious as to what the mechanism(s) here is/are, I'd bet something hormonal.

[–]Secondhand_Crack 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Me too! So fucking weird.

[–]Disturbed83 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Im sure I speak for others who experience the same as me that the 'benefits' only last the first 24hour after a binge, which is in line with all the studies that show increased NR2B binding (especially in the amygdala).

The effects atleast for me do not go beyond 24hours.

[–]2_mlg_4_u 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get incredibly empathetic under the influence, and the next few days after I'm incredibly apathetic and depressed. Ethanol kinda acts like mdma on me.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]goudarziha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    username checks out

    [–]king8654 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yup, might not hit five but day after drinking can gets all kinda weird with libido

    [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (10 children)

    Interesting - I hadn't really followed those threads, but I also often wake early and feel like going for a run after a night out with the boys. I rarely drink, and don't generally tolerate it very well. I also experience some innatentive, non-motivated, distracted, ADHD-style symptoms (never diagnosed).

    Does anyone know about combining these with SSRIs?

    Also there's some fairly significant side effects listed on Wikipedia for NAC - what are people's experience with it?

    [–]zalo 0 points1 point  (9 children)

    NAC typically makes me feel terrible; if I take it at night before going to sleep, I have a hard time getting up in the morning and struggle to function all the next day. It’s suspected that NAC has an unfortunate reaction in individuals with histamine intolerance.

    It seems like you can buy Sarcosine alone (a lot cheaper than from Profrontal) from PowderCity: https://www.powdercity.com/products/sarcosine

    It seems like it’s also synergistic with glycine, d-serine, and d-aspartic acid.

    [–]postemporary 11 points12 points  (4 children)

    Powdercity has been defunct for a while. That page is just a front for another site that bought the PC domain.

    [–]zalo 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    Aw man, I had completely forgotten. RIP Powdercity.

    It appears to also be carried by SmartPowders: https://smartpowders.com/products/smartpowders-sarcosine/

    [–]Disturbed83 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    smartpowders is dodgy as fk, horrible experience, would not buy from them again, BEWARE

    [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Agreed. This is why I went with ProFrontal. I could actually speak to real people who described their manufacturing processes and NMDA receptors / the doctors that work there as medical directors.

    [–]Disturbed83 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Fuck profrontal way too expensive.

    Decided to go with brainvitaminz and as for the NAC I still got that at home.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Good insight - thanks!

    [–]Lamzn6 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Why are you taking NAC at night? It increase as dopamine activity. There’s no wondering why you’re not getting quality sleep on it.

    It’s one of those things you take in the morning of when you need an energy boost.

    [–]zalo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    No dice; tonight I was described as "mean, agitated, and mopey" (unsolicited), whereas the same person would typically describe me as "calm" (solicited right after). I can feel the irritability and brain fog right now, like a lighter version of marijuana withdrawal (which tends to give me extreme versions of the former two attributes).

    Typically, I attempt to take NAC at night for it's anti-hangover properties, but stopped when I realized that it was making me feel way worse in the morning than the nights I had not taken it.

    For reference, this is the particular brand/style of NAC that I have had these experiences with: https://www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Sustain-Supports-Function/dp/B0013OVVK0/

    [–]zalo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Hrm, I’ll try that this morning and report back; typically it’s more of a swollen puffy brain-fog rather than just poor sleep, but perhaps my waking metabolism will process it better than my sleeping one...

    [–]JohnTorque 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    Compared to glycine (supplement), how different is the effect of Sarcosine?
    Sarcosine is a glycine transporter inhibitor, it increases glycine concentrations in the brain.

    [–]Bluest_waters 7 points8 points  (3 children)

    really confused about how sarcosine (methyl glycine) differs from the glycine supplement you can get off amazon.

    [–]trusty20 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    It differs because it has a methyl-group attached to it, as you yourself described. Similarly phenylpiracetam is VERY different than piracetam and yet it is just piracetam with a phenyl-group. These modifiers do more than effect transport, they also affect binding affinity and so can (not always, i.e adding HCL to a substance usually just makes it absorb better but doesn't have much of an effect on it's binding affinity) completely change the effects of the substance.

    [–]Bluest_waters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    ok, thnx

    [–]Kibubik 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Did other people in the group have similar positive reactions to sarcosine and NAC?

    [–]Kibubik 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    Wow, this is crazy. I fall into this camp of feeling incredible after a hangover. I think I'll have to try this...

    Did you find any similarities in experiences, genetics, or regular practices of the group that experiences this?

    [–]movimento9[S] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

    Yes.

    All of us have had anhedonia for our entire lives without really realizing it - until we had our first alcoholic hangover we "felt" for the first time.

    Most of us have stomach issues/IBS and are of smaller stature (shorter than than 5'11). Probably because of poor absorption of nutrients.

    All of us have random periods where we wake up right before we fall asleep gasping for air, with our hearts beating extremely quickly. None of us have sleep apnea when tested for it.

    We have other general autonomic dysfunction that goes away during a hangover - POTS, hard time swallowing, weird random tics, shaking leg up and down very quickly, and random dizziness.

    Acid reflux that goes away during a hangover.

    And random chest pains / weird random unexplainable "psychogenic" pains that go away during a hangover.

    [–]JohnTorque 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    wow, wtf
    I fit in almost all characteristics you pointed. I don't have stomach issues, neither IBS, but I can't tolerate some kinds of foods, so I avoid them. I eat A LOT of meat, but my B12 levels is still in the low acceptable range.
    I don't have sleep apnea (I tested it) and almost every fucking night I wake up gasping for air right before achieving full sleep.
    And guess what, I love the hangover effect. I tried to use glycine (supplement) but without any positive effects. NAC gave me diarrhea.

    [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    NAC gives me diarrhea on its own too. I have to take these two in combination. The synergy is flawless.

    Regular glycine did nothing for me. Nothing positive or negative - I just didn't notice anything at all.

    [–]killabeesindafront 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Is it still working? Also do you still get the afterglow after a night out?

    [–]dirtyredsweater 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    wow... I have to applaud your efforts. This is really impressive stuff. I will research sarcosine more tomorrow... but I'm already impressed by the first study I found, which showed that it's more effective than citalopram.

    http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(13)00188-1/fulltext

    [–]trusty20 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Sarcosine MAY be carcinogenic. It's not really certain but there has been some research indicating this possibility:

    The oncogenic protein HER2/neu (overexpression of which is associated with tumor development in various cancers[67][68] including prostate,[69] and may promote disease progression via NF-kB[70]) appears to have its protein content upregulated after exposure to sarcosine of 25-100μM although there were no changes in the phosphorylation thereof.[71]In vitro studies have noted that application of high levels of sarcosine (1,500µM) can increase intracellular concentrations in this concentration (106µM) although lower extracellular levels of sarcosine (10µM) are not large enough (270nM).[72]

    Also:

    It is unclear what mediates these pro-oncogenic effects as sarcosine does not appear to be inhernetly mutagenic,[73] although sarcosine has been noted to interact with the TMEFF2 protein[74] and it is also involved in the one-carbon cycle (of which an insufficiency of activity, resulting in hypomethylation, is known to be pro-oncogenic and causes cell division[75][76]).

    So TL;DR Sarcosine may help facilitate malignancy/survival of cancerous cells, so far only observed in prostate cells. To be fair this is a very tenuous connection, it certainly hasn't been demonstrated that sarcosine definitely is instrumental in carcogenecity or if it only has a minor interaction observable in an in-vitro lab study (and might not translate to actual in-body physiology). Still for this reason I would be wary of taking it regularly.

    [–]spyderspyders 8 points9 points  (5 children)

    This study says sarcosine raises the seizure threshold, which means it makes it harder to have a seizure, at 400-800 mg/kg.

    [–]movimento9[S] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    I meant raises - as in it works as an antiepileptic. Usually NMDA agonists would expect to lower the seizure threshold. Edited.

    [–]kanekicannoli 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    This might be good for benzo withdrawal

    [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Agreed. My girlfriend is tapering klonopin now and had a huge reduction in symptoms once adding the sarcosine.

    [–]EvelynnSpoiler 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    holy shit that's interesting

    [–]mcgruntman 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Have any of your cohort of fellow sufferers tried Wellbutrin aka Bupropion? It is supposed to be effective for anhedonia.

    [–]god_hates_figs_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I am taking bupropion because I requested its addition to cymbalta for fibromyalgia and depression for this reason. I feel like it has slightly helped, and if I forget it my cognition does definitely decline, I have less motivation and pleasure, and I generally feel stuffy or foggy.

    However, I have recently been diagnosed with BPD so that can explain why it is not as affective for me. I have a close friend who is on the same combo and he is a different man. From dark and withdrawn to a downright ball of sunshine. But I am a whirlwind of everything and nothing at once, always stuck in the paradox of being far too manic and stimmy while being sleepy and depressed and hopeless at the same time.

    I have just found this sub and am still not too sure what the concept of noortropics even is but I have been excited to read what you all have to say. You all seem very well-informed and like-minded and I am sure I will find my mental salvation someday!

    [–]funkbawks 2 points3 points  (6 children)

    I hate to be a downer and I'd want everyone to make up their own minds by experimenting to towards the road of discovery but Sarcosine was absolutely fucked for me. Even with NAC and at various doses it felt like extreme excitoxicity (anxiety, disassociation). I have the exact same reaction to a hangover as op. Feel normal, can concentrate, socialize but this wasn't the ticket for me.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]funkbawks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I ended up going down to 25mg a day and I still felt horrid. You didn't read that wrong. Excitoxicity runs for a couple of weeks after seizing and you will have a 'did I fuck up my brain?' moment but it eventually disappears. Maybe do what op said and get some dank nac to balance it out. I thought my nac was really good but maybe not upto scratch? Not sure.

      [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      I respond the same way to sarcosine alone as well. It is very activating but great as an antidepressant. The NAC balances the effects perfectly.

      It didn't work until I got some actual quality NAC. This new bottle, upon opening, smells SO strongly of sulfur it almost knocks me out. The Jarrow NAC I tried didn't have this effect.

      [–]dirtyredsweater 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Have you tried the nootropics depot NAC? what brand NAC do you use? I'm waiting on an order from ND of NAC.

      [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Nothing ever worked for me until I bought quality NAC and Sarcosine. I get everything from ProFrontal.com. Nicest people I've ever met, and actually have pure and quality compounds. They gave all of us a discount code which is in this post.

      [–]dirtyredsweater 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Ok thanks for the info :)

      [–]Disturbed83 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      To anyone who tried this combo and has had some effect:

      How did you respond to each compound by itself, so sarcosine without nac and other way around.

      Anyone know a cheap and reliable source of sarcosine in europe as profrontal seems expensive to be honest.

      Also how long do you feel the effect lasts, accoring to other posts I have read sarcosine has a half-life of only 2.5hours.

      [–]KareemEliot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      In Europe: Supersmart fo capsules, purecapsules for powder.

      [–]SimonT1997 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Let's have a follow up thread of all the people who had the same issue and tried this combination- so we can see whether it is successful across the board. That would make me very happy

      [–]mxmsmri 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      OMG, I've always why I'm always fresh as fuck and feeling fantastic while my friends are miserable after a night out. I always thought I was some kind of mutant in that regard.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]Lamzn6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        It can do both but yes, it theoretically tampers down glutamate activity.

        Glutamate and GABA have an inverse relationship for the most part. You drastically increase GABA during alcohol consumption. Then glutamate activity increases when it’s wearing off.

        Excess glutamate causes depression and anxiety, as it is the main excitatory neurotransmitter.

        [–]kanekicannoli 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Not sponsored btw Lol. I just get the sarc from brainvitaminz and nac from ND.

        [–]JohnTorque 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Is brainvitaminz legit? Profrontal is too expensive and they don't sell sarcosine alone

        [–]kanekicannoli 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Profrontal are expensive af. Tbh idk dude, looks and tastes like sugar with a strange aftertaste. Packaging looks legit though.

        [–]idolessence 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Wow, i just searched for similar symtoms like this on reddit 3 days ago. Its rare but I get extreme clarity and confidence from hangovers maybe 2-3 times a year, its usually a result of heavy drinking :( I didnt find any good info when i last looked so this is great. Gonna grab some and play with dose.

        [–]Debonaire_Death 1 point2 points  (6 children)

        Sarcosine + Emoxypine succinate is an excellent combination. I use it to reduce side effects when coming off of other stacks.

        Definitely something to be careful about mixing weed with. Weed is very glutamatergic, and can be potentiated uncomfortably by things like sarcosine.

        [–]movimento9[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

        I can't even tolerate a single puff of cannabis. It puts me into full blown pyschosis / extreme panic with extreme heart rate. Lol

        [–]Debonaire_Death 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        Finding out how someone responds to cannabis is a very useful diagnostic, since the herb interacts with so many different systems in the body.

        Sounds like you have a sensitivity to cortisol and, obviously, glutamate. Do you work out regularly?

        [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I hike and walk up to 10 miles some days. No HIIT though.

        [–]sukhus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        What does working out do for someone who reacts this way to cannabis? Asking for a friend abused for years and suddenly stopped.

        [–]postemporary 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Because of the sarcosine?

        [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        No, me in general. I've only tried cannabis twice. Many years ago.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          In my post I noted that I've been to eight doctors in multiple states and even tried transcranial magnetic stimulation. It's been a two year journey.

          [–]Anton_Zimmermann 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          How can i join this community? I have the same thing since most of my life except childhood, i want to join the community because nobody knows what's going on not even the psychiatrists.

          [–]king8654 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          any info about dosages? with the NAC pre drinking?

          [–]smashsmash341985 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Foolproof hangover cure here. Wake up, mix into a bottle of Powerade 200mg alpha gpc, 3 gram piracetam, 300mg phenylpiracetam. Hangover cured in 40 minutes. And I'm talking gnarly hangover from a gram of coke and a bottle of whiskey.

          [–]movimento9[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          The point of this thread is that we actually enjoy hangovers - they offer us benefits and we don't wish to get rid of them.

          We are just looking for a replacement to achieve that state.

          [–]smashsmash341985 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Yeah I just chimed in my cure :)

          [–]Lokzo55 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Remarkable, can't wait to read this!

          [–]dirtyredsweater 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I'm glad you finally found something that works for you.

          Would you be able to link other compounds like Apimostinel which have a similar mechanism of action as sarcosine?

          [–]aclockwerkpurple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Wow great post, I've always wondered why I feel so good after a hard night of drinking lol.

          [–]Disturbed83 0 points1 point  (6 children)

          So I want to give sarcosine a go since I respond well to piracetam and alot of nmda potentiators. /u/movimento9 do you find the effects are acute and remain that way or is there some kind of a buildup phase?

          [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

          Definitely a buildup phase. Also make sure you get quality NAC. This is the first time I've actually responded to NAC, and the bottle smells Soooo strongly of sulfur. It is literally rank / potent lmao. I can feel the two substances kick in at different times. Sarcosine is activating, and then the NAC kind of mellows out the hypomanic feel of it.

          Day 2 I felt afterglow effects after waking up from taking it at night, and by day 9-10 I seemed to be in hangover state 24/7 (normal / clear / well spoken).

          [–]donowhy11 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          This is very encouraging. I'm on day 3 of my 'now' brand NAC (600mg NAC, 25mcg selenium, 50mcg molybdenum) and I definitely experienced the day 2 afterglow. Looking forward to the day 9-10.

          I'm not experiencing any negative side effects from the NAC. Do you think I should still experiment with sarcosine? I suppose its still a little early regarding my NAC intake

          [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          The sarcosine adds the anti-anhedonic and antidepressant effects, the NAC keeps the mania in check if it is to occur from the sarcosine.

          [–]donowhy11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Interesting. I'll order a bottle of sarcosine. What is your dosage schedule for sarcosine? Can (should) it be taken every day?

          [–]Disturbed83 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          I respond to NAC aswell by itself (jarrow nac sustain), strong anti-fatigue effects, annihilates repetitive behaviors, but seems to come at a cost: reduces the joy i get out of daily things, more flatness so to speak. This is no surprise as NAC has been shown to dull amphetamine highs yet is neuroprotective at the same time.

          Do you feel as if it messes with your sleep pattern though? I know atleast from my own experience that if I take one of the following during the evening I get weird REM like dreams where I would wake up literally 10+ times per night and am basically in a constant stats of half awake/half dreaming (never gotten if this is the lucid state ppl refer to? but my body seems to dislike it): glycine, magnesium glycinate, zma, d-aspartic acid

          So this has me slightly worrying, will improvement come at the cost of wrecked sleep/dreams and possibly aggrevate my mental problems?

          Also do you take sarcosine with or without food?

          Thanks for your time so far bud, hope it remains effective for you!

          [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I take everything with food.

          NAC does this to me as well on its own. Makes me dull and zombielike but high energy. The sarcosine brings the joy back into things. They are a perfect balance between each other. Without the NAC, sarcosine makes me manic. Without the sarcosine, NAC makes me a zombie.

          Glycine + Cysteine are also needed to produce glutathione. Sarcosine and NAC provide both of these.

          [–]donowhy11 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Can confirm. I wasn't one of your 18 redditors but I have also noticed the hangover glow, and just recently started taking NAC and I feel incredible.

          [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Awesome! What is your dose and schedule? I'm on 1000mg twice a day.

          [–]donowhy11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I've been taking 600mg upon waking up, and 1200mg before bed time. I'm really really hoping this isn't just some manic placebo. I genuinely feel great (less anxious, more relaxed, less brain fog).

          I'm also taking bacopa, fish oil, cordyceps, lions mane, piracetam, and cdp-choline

          [–]donowhy11 0 points1 point  (4 children)

          After doing some research on Sarcosine, it looks like it could potentially increase testosterone. Is there any chance your test levels are low? Low test can result in depression and anhedonia

          [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          My testosterone levels were high end of normal before starting Sarcosine, and all my labs were perfect. It seems this issue we have is outside of the scope of general blood tests / conventional medicine... I have seen so many doctors. Lol

          [–]donowhy11 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Alright then scrap that theory lol. So I'm looking for a source to buy it from and nobody on Amazon sells sarcosine? What is that about?

          [–]movimento9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It's difficult to manufacture, and expensive. Also relatively unknown outside of niche psychiatrists using it for schizophrenia. This is why I order from ProFrontal... proven high quality and I spoke to the owner and he was incredibly intelligent and knew what he was talking about. Plus he gave us all that discount code. I'll be a lifelong customer lol

          [–]whatsinthere223[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Nootropicdepot, is the one I suggest going with.

          [–]itsmeduhhh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Gonna take a look at this later.

          [–]Disturbed83 0 points1 point  (6 children)

          Not sure if anyone is still following this but my sarcosine from brainvitaminz has arrived and just took my first dose, I will probably make a post if it was successfull for me or not in about a months time.

          [–]movimento9[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

          Make sure you stack it with some quality NAC, else you'll probably end up feeling very panicky, restless, and agitated on sarcosine alone.

          [–]Disturbed83 0 points1 point  (4 children)

          Yup haha, just done my 2nd dose for today and allready Im feeling the gaze aversion and sound sensitivity aggrevating (I have aspergers syndrome), that being said, it did felt some 'waves' of wellbeing ~45min-1hr30min post dosing.

          I take it that long term use can have different effects than shortterm aswell.

          I have 2x 500mg so far today.

          Tomorrow I will dose 1000mg in the morning if I notice the gaze aversion/anxiety/irritability gets worse (which it probably will its just to test it out) I will add the NAC that I allready have laying around from before.

          [–]movimento9[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          I get the same way when I take sarcosine alone. NAC eliminates those negative effects. They're so synergistic it's insane.

          [–]Disturbed83 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Would you say its save in general to instantly jump to 1gram sarc + 1gram nac in the morning + another 1gram sarc + 1gram nac in the afternoon straight from the start?

          [–]movimento9[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Yep, I did. If you feel too much like you're on cocaine or way too "up" just decrease dose as needed.

          [–]Disturbed83 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it.

          Off to give it atleast a month and I will report back after.

          [–]johnrosenbaud11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Trial period length? Doses? Has it worked consistently, have you had null effect days?

          [–]johnrosenbaud11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          If anyone wants to meet up, I am open to it. In NYC. PM me.

          [–]ThumpersBeard 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Profrontal arriving later this week. Will provide update after 1 wk or so of use.

          [–]ThumpersBeard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          That was a long week. My jury is out. Certainly hones my attention.....but as far has working for memory and energy....I am fairly conclusive that curcumin is working just fine.