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all 51 comments

[–]Kaos_DragonAnkh-Morpork Guild of Assassins 23 points24 points  (2 children)

In universe, they could've set up a senzu bean farm since they take a long time to grow.

[–]Kishoto 5 points6 points  (0 children)

So simple but by damn, if this wasn't a good idea.

[–]SimoneNonvelodicoHonnouji Academy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They do set up a senzu bean farm in the Dragonball Multiverse U16 fanfiction. However they don't do that in the HTC because they need many more; they just grab a whole uninhabited planet and cultivate it. It's a necessity because in that universe Vegitto is permanently fused and senzu beans are the only thing energetic enough to keep him fed.

[–]Veedrac 14 points15 points  (4 children)

Startups are going to love this. Also hate this. It allows them to trade effort that large companies won't be able to spare (because most employees won't sit in a box for a year) for time-to-market, and helps devoted newcomers displace incumbents.

I expect automated manufacturing will be all over this. Some expensive processes should become a lot more effective, since it makes small-scale production much faster. It requires a lot of space, though.

The major targets might be mostly related to ramp-up time. It's much easier to make one machine, or train one person, and then speed them up 365x, than to make 365 machines or train 365 people.

Still thinking, though. I suspect this would change a lot, but it's not clear where the lowest hanging fruit is.

[–]Veedrac 4 points5 points  (1 child)

This will play a major role in hardware verification. You are generally time constrained, yet unable to ramp up production on pre-production samples. Being able to do exhaustive testing runs in 24h would be extremely useful.

This might let companies research long-term effects on biological systems without long-term studies, assuming things can be automated. This could improve certain parts of healthcare.

[–]Ironsight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also pharmaceutical testing!

Also, depending on how the legalities of it work, there would probably be companies who try to pay employees normal-time-rates, rather than their subjective-time-rates. If this isn't possible, they'll likely use the chambers to train 'un-payed interns' before hiring them.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]sicutumbo 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    It doesn't. Brute forcing encryption is easily parallelizable, and if it was practical to break encryption keys by using a few hundred times more computers then it would already be done given the extreme value you could get from doing so.

    [–]sicutumbo 10 points11 points  (3 children)

    The Haber process for nitrogen fixation is very slow when not done at high pressures and temperatures. If a device could be made to perform a high efficiency, low speed Haber process without human intervention, fertilizer and other nitrogen dependent products could be cheaper. I don't know how it would be powered, but I'm sure something could be arranged. It doesn't really matter if the machine can't run for the full year; it just needs to make enough to justify the cost of the machine regardless of wasted time.

    You could probably grow some really cool crystals that would take impractically long times IRL, but I doubt this would be particularly valuable.

    Maybe you could bioengineer microorganisms to eat plastics if you put a bunch of plastic in there as a potential source of food. Kind of doubt it though.

    Maybe test how corrosion resistant certain alloys or paints make a material? Seems a bit niche.

    [–]SvalbardCaretaker 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    I am constantly impressed that humanity uses 3% of its whole energy consumption on fertilizer aka Haber process.

    [–]sicutumbo 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Just the Wikipedia article on it is really cool. It quadrupled Earth's food production with the additional fertilizer it offered. Half the nitrogen in your body was fixed through the Haber process.

    [–]mack2028 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    hbt's can also increase gravity and heat if I remember correctly so maybe it would help with that too.

    [–]Lightwaverss̮̹̃rͭ͆̄͊̓̍ͪ͝e̮̹̜͈ͫ̓̀̋̂v̥̭̻̖̗͕̓ͫ̎ͦa̵͇ͥ͆ͣ͐w̞͎̩̻̮̏̆̈́̅͂t͕̝̼͒̂͗͂h̋̿ 10 points11 points  (8 children)

    Mine Bitcoin.

    [–]Veedrac 16 points17 points  (4 children)

    Electricity is the dominant cost of computing power these days, so a HTC must save on electricity or justify its cost premium. Instead of throwing one really expensive HTC server at the problem for a year, throw 365 cheap power-efficient servers at it for a day as many tech companies are able to do, or just run it on a cloud computing platform.

    Same deal here.

    [–]alexanderwalesTime flies like an arrow 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    Plus mining Bitcoin requires an internet connection (since that's how blockchain technology works).

    [–]Gr_Cheese 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    As far as I know, this is not necessarily true for Bitcoin. In current practice, yes, miners need an active internet connection, because the guy next to them might solve for a block and it would normally be in their best interest to solve on top of that new block instead of 'continuing' on their own. (And they only know about that solved block from their internet connection.)

    The solving part doesn't require an internet connection, just an up to date blockchain and some pending transactions. The propagating part is the internet part. Since we can safely assume that the time chamber solves first, there's no issue as long as they can pop open the door every couple of minutes to communicate with the rest of the world.

    Blocks take an average of 10 minutes (real world time?) independent of total computational power in the mining pool. So for starters that 'real-world time?' bit is going to have to be addressed. Also whether or not there are multiple time chambers... Honestly, at this point in a rational world, someone smarter than me would probably come along with an Altcoin to account for these problems. But Bitcoin's system, as is, could function inside a time chamber; it could functionally be the same as a massive increase in hash rate... that involves opening a door every couple of minutes.

    EDIT: Was it a DBZ rule that the chamber only opens once a day real world time? If the door can't be opened as frequently as the avaerage block publication rate, then it's useless for Bitcoin. And thank god for that, a hash rate arms race is not a good use of the world's resources.

    [–]SimoneNonvelodicoHonnouji Academy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Was it a DBZ rule that the chamber only opens once a day real world time?

    I don't remember anything like that. When Goten and Trunks go in to train before fighting Majin Bu, the door is re-opened one hour later. The rule was that a single human can't spend more than 48 real time hours inside. It was violated later anyway, so we can probably just ignore it.

    [–]SimoneNonvelodicoHonnouji Academy 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    If it's just you and you want to make a quick buck for yourself, maybe. As a whole, for humanity, mining Bitcoin is an utterly unproductive, and in fact wasteful, activity, at this point.

    [–]Lightwaverss̮̹̃rͭ͆̄͊̓̍ͪ͝e̮̹̜͈ͫ̓̀̋̂v̥̭̻̖̗͕̓ͫ̎ͦa̵͇ͥ͆ͣ͐w̞͎̩̻̮̏̆̈́̅͂t͕̝̼͒̂͗͂h̋̿ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Sure, sure—but since humanity isn't a hive mind, it gets me money.

    [–]SimoneNonvelodicoHonnouji Academy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Depends, you still have to buy the servers, install them inside the HTC, set up the connections, and that's not even considering the detail that really kills the idea, namely, the need for an internet connection (can't keep the door open and also get the speed up). There's gotta be better money-making schemes to carry out with a dilated time pocket dimension.

    [–]MineDogger 4 points5 points  (7 children)

    Beer. Duh.

    [–]sicutumbo 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Yeah, I think fermented foods would be the biggest use. Wine, whiskey, tobasco, miso, cheese, etc. Basically no set up cost, since you just throw stuff in and open it up again in a day.

    [–]MineDogger 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Instant Blue Stilton and German style lager! Pre-start your sourdough starter!

    [–]mack2028 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    How fast can it go? could you do 100 year scotch in a day?

    [–]1101560Science! 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    365:1, so no

    [–]mack2028 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    but... 100 days, that is pretty good. in 2 years you could have scotch older than the oldest possible scotch. cheese too.

    [–]Tasty_Y 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    You can be 100% sure there would be connoisseurs saying that products aged the normal way taste way superior to the htc fakes.

    [–]1101560Science! 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I dunno what I’d use the article’s hyperbolic time chamber for besides aging food, but the canon one can be exited at will (Goten and Trunks pre buu fight, Kid Goku taking a month and then leaving, iirc vegeta blew something critical up and had to leave early once). As such, it’d be a lot more useful for time critical tasks; need to get a response to an event? Have your pr people spend a week inside perfecting a speech, then have it ready to go within 10 minutes. Want to finish touching up a project or prototype before a deadline? Need to get your patch working before customers start seriously complaining?

    I think the article crippled itself by adding that kinda arbitrary restriction on.

    [–]Trips-Over-TailDeath of Crabs 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    Cheat your way to faster processor speeds by sequestering all your computing hardware inside to make brute force a feasible solution for hard-to-solve problems.

    [–]sicutumbo 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    I don't think it would be much of an advantage. Brute forcing is parellelizable, so distributed computing would be more practical than powering a computer for a year with no human input. For problems like brute forcing encryption, a 365 factor speed increase wouldn't be significant enough to matter.

    [–]Trips-Over-TailDeath of Crabs 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    How many HTCs can you nest inside one another?

    [–]sicutumbo 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    There’s no such thing as a HTC-within-a-HTC, so uses are limited to just that one 365x speedup - no 3652 speedups.

    The article disallows it. I'm not sure specifically what a 133k times speedup would do, but I think it would mostly be of scientific interest rather than industrial, since almost nothing would continue working for that long without repair.

    Actually, neutralizing nuclear waste would be really useful. Stick anything in, wait a couple months, and it's no longer radioactive.

    [–]Trips-Over-TailDeath of Crabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Also wine making.

    [–]Prezombie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Shove your dev team in to meet deadlines. It's no less humane than the other shit some push.

    Khonsu used HTCs as pretty devastating weapons.

    [–]mack2028 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Frankly, if I had one I would likely use it to take long weekends where I didn't have to talk to anyone or do anything. maybe just sleep in there so I didn't have to worry about being late for things.

    [–]deepwater61 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Err, according to the link the HTC works by forcing the user to stay inside for 365 days relative time (1 day passing outside), and compares it to a super max prison. Using it for long weekends seems a bit... extreme.

    [–]BoppreH 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    Why is software development considered zero sum here? If the Android developers spent a day there writing bug fixes, then Android users will have a smoother experience for one year, compared to the normal schedule.

    And not only bug fixes, but I can think of a lot of software development tasks that can be done more or less in isolation, specially design ones. Imagine a new programming language, database engine, or file system developed in six real-time months by baton-passing developers using the HTC.

    I would happily eat dehydrated food and live in isolation for a year to make this happen.

    [–]GeneralExtension 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I think people using it for smaller increments would be more popular. Also, if a lot of people are doing it, growing food in them as well could mean a lot of fresh produce. The people who use them get to eat fresh food for (part of?) a year, and everyone else enjoys having stuff out of season (that's actually in season).

    [–]SimoneNonvelodicoHonnouji Academy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I would happily eat dehydrated food and live in isolation for a year to make this happen.

    And in ten times Earth's gravity? It was also said that the conditions are really harsh - bad temperature excursion, low oxygen, and so on, though that can be adjusted within an environmentally controlled cubicle.

    [–]BoppreH 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    From TFA:

    Ignoring the DBZ-specific aspects of the HTC like the person limit or increased gravity or air and temperature changes, one wonders: what one would do with a HTC in the real world?

    [–]cidqueen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I would send my favorite writers and artists in there with whatever option Master Roshi took that made him immortal so they could finish my goddamn manga. I'm looking at you Kentaro Miura

    [–]OnePunchFan8 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Would make experiments that take up a lot of time be much more feasible.

    What if you started a civilization in here? You'd be able to advance 365.25x faster than anyone else!

    [–]Nimelennar 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Medicine. Specifically, clinical trials.

    So you want to know what the effects of the drug are going to be, twenty years later? That'll take three weeks.

    [–]sicutumbo 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I don't think many people would be willing to spend twenty years of their lives in an isolated room. It would be like prison but worse.

    [–]GeneralExtension 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Well, instead of attempting colonization with equipment that's never been tested before (and without knowing what effects it'd have on people, etc.), there have been several experiments with closed systems on Earth like Biosphere 2. With an HTC, it might be easier to get volunteers since they wouldn't be gone very long.*

    And, if you could afford to use HTCs on Mars, the farming boost might make things a lot easier.

    like prison but worse.

    *The horror uses are many, though immortals could get a lot more out of it (personally), for better or for worse. It also invites the question of why no one's tried the reverse technology. A message in a battery powered bottle from 400 years ago, that feels like it was written 26 hours ago. Digital storage, or time-locks (or messing with time locks) - although if the power goes off it might never come back on if no one's still around to remember to check.

    [–]SimoneNonvelodicoHonnouji Academy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Works potentially well for animal testing though.

    But let's not forget it's also at 10x G so it'll probably kill you if you stay inside that long.

    [–]SimoneNonvelodicoHonnouji Academy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Well, we could speed up computation. Dump in there all the world's supercomputing clusters, we get a 365 times speed-up factor on everything we do, we can finally crack really hard problems that are currently unfeasible. Putting humans in it is a double edged sword (who wants to take one year off their lives like that? Also, the 10x G doesn't help).

    Lots of other processes that have a natural speed could benefit from the acceleration, like organ and tissue growing, in theory. Though again, the 10x G must be factored in there. If you can grow food in it, you've just solved every food problem for a very long time. And you should be able to grow food in it - at worst, you can run cloned meat labs and mycoprotein reactors. Not sure whether that white, pale light is good enough for crops...

    It seems very vast, it's not inhabited, and time flows quickly - perfect place to just dump your nuclear waste! What would have taken 300 years to decay now takes one. And anyway it's stocked in a separate dimension. Problem solved forever.

    I keep trying to think of energy applications, like a perpetual motion machine, but I'm afraid that can't be hacked out of it. It could perhaps if you could keep the door open and operate something within the time speed differential, but you can't, or you'd die just stepping in, while your body's half in half out - the time differential activates when you close the door. So that's just not a good avenue to pursue.

    [–]awesomeideasDai stiho, cousin. 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You could grow massive amounts of Aspergillus ticor.

    [–]hyenagrins 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Training neural networks.. it's a task hard to parallelize, and does not require any realtime internet access. AlphaZero was trained on 64 TPU , roughly 180 tfops each. A personal laptop's gaming GPU could maybe achieve 9 tfops, speeding up by a factor of 365 getting a respectable 3285 tflops. Making lots of Google scale stuff doable at home.

    [–]gwern 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Training neural networks works in parallel pretty well. AlphaZero, for example, was, what, a day to superhuman and a few days wallclock total? And training a near-SOTA ImageNet is down to 4 minutes; if you're a stickler for accuracy, maybe it's 8 or 11 minutes, I don't follow it that closely. In any case, it's quite quick. OA5 is ginormously parallel and it's hard to say how fast wallclock it would be if OA started from scratch rather than constantly using transfer learning whenever they make a tweak, but given all the cleanups and the original training curve, probably on the order of weeks. Even GANs parallelize well, as BigGAN demonstrates with TPUs. The limiting factor is more money (capital/electricity). But if you can't afford to spend 10 GPU-years, it doesn't make much of a difference if that's 0.1 years on 100 GPUs or 10 years on 1 GPU, you can't afford it either way.