×
all 85 comments

[–][deleted]  (24 children)

[removed]

    [–]RepubMocrat_Party 29 points30 points  (0 children)

    So what is a good way to exercise that stimulation?

    [–]westy2036 23 points24 points  (8 children)

    Word of caution, heard a lot of the Threonate studies have significant conflicts of interest. Wish i had more info but I don’t. Just wanted to put it out there in case anyone else did.

    [–]jejabig 22 points23 points  (1 child)

    The authors of threonate papers are the patent-holders. It calls for caution, but I wouldn't neglect it.

    [–]westy2036 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Right that is all I was advising.

    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Sexybroth 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      It would be interesting to ask r/ADHD about their experiences, if any, with magnesium.

      [–]com2kid 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      It would be interesting to ask r/ADHD about their experiences, if any, with magnesium.

      Can confirm, we like it over there.

      Seems to be a bit hit or miss though, either it helps people a lot, or not at all. Then again a lot of things about ADHD are kinda like that.

      [–]FromtheFuture_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Do you happen to remember which ones they were? I heard a lot of good stuff about glycinate.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]FromtheFuture_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Thank you for the run down. I was planning on starting supplementation but wasn’t really too sure what to research so this gave me a good head start. I’ll definitely read up on them.

        [–]MutedReindeer[S] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

        So how do we explain the the benefit only seems to last for a couple days after discontinuation? Surely synaptic density would take a few weeks to go back to baseline?

        [–][deleted]  (5 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]theMediatrix 0 points1 point  (4 children)

          So does it make sense to supplement on an ongoing basis, but just take "breaks," as one might do with adderall or coffee?

          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]LuckyPanda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            How long have you been supplementing? Have you had withdrawals when you stop taking it? For reference.

            [–]scientifichooligan76 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Thank you for the in depth reply! Any recommended sites for very new people on supplements?

            [–]RelevantMarketing 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Wow. I looked up your post history to find more smart posts I can read, and I found them! but then there were too many and I got overwhelmed and I didn't read any of them. :C

            [–]Horse_trunk 5 points6 points  (1 child)

            you are smarter than me

            [–]n4te 16 points17 points  (0 children)

            Have you tried stopping magnesium supplementation abruptly?

            [–]ZealPoseidon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            How much and how often for 12 weeks?

            [–]Lokzo55 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            This might be the reason why on of my friends is now a genius after using the gruelling MK-801.

            [–]LordDaedalus 65 points66 points  (17 children)

            Magnesium doesn't outright antagonize the NMDA site. It's a voltage dependent antagonist, which means it only stops the NMDA site from taking in ions after it has reached action potential, ie it won't over charge to excitotoxic levels. However, that "over charging" is heavily linked to hypomanic states in those with bipolar, that could be what you are experiencing.

            [–]PragmaticPulp 14 points15 points  (6 children)

            Magnesium has many roles throughout the body. The NMDA interaction has been heavily discussed online, but it's only a small fraction of Magnesium's role in the body.

            Furthermore, the body tightly regulates Magnesium in the CNS, moreso than it does throughout the rest of the body. I wouldn't be surprised if the negative effects of magnesium over-supplementation are related to some second-order functions related to unnaturally dosing with high doses of a single electrolyte in isolation.

            Despite the hype, the body's actual needs for magnesium really can be satisfied through diet without trying very hard. I'd strongly recommend that everyone focus on cleaning up their diets rather than trying to dose isolated electrolytes.

            [–]LordDaedalus 29 points30 points  (1 child)

            Unlike the sodium potassium balance, magnesium isn't that likely to throw off your other electrolytes. And you would be surprised how difficult it is to get necessary magnesium in diet alone. We used to get a lot more magnesium as a species before we started washing the dirt off all our food, and there have been quite a few studies done in the last decade showing the daily recommended amount, which many people (most Americans) are already not meeting, is actually set too low.

            [–]wagonspraggs 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            Yes this. That recent study showing the majority of population in some sort of magnesium deficiency was frightening, add in the fact that magnesium levels in arable soil has dropped 30% in only the last 40 years makes for a dire situation.

            [–]FollowMe22Illuminate Labs 3 points4 points  (3 children)

            Despite the hype, the body's actual needs for magnesium really can be satisfied through diet without trying very hard.

            This isn't accurate in 2019, at least in America. Humans used to get a large amount of Mg from natural spring water, and from vegetables. The topsoil in America has drastically reduced Mg levels because of overfarming, and no one drinks spring water anymore. Americans barely eat vegetables anyway.

            Consequently, subclinical magnesium deficiency is a public health crisis.

            [–]PragmaticPulp 3 points4 points  (2 children)

            Consequently, subclinical magnesium deficiency is a public health crisis.

            Open the "Conflict of Interest" section on that article. The primary author of the paper is the author and promoter of a rather one-sided book regarding salt deficiency. I wouldn't be surprised if he's gearing up for a follow-up book about magnesium. The review article has a mix of good points and sensationalist points, but it doesn't support the common notion among the supplement community that it's perfectly safe to supplement 500mg-1000mg Magnesium every single day.

            "Americans barely eat vegetables" isn't really a great argument for supplementing with isolated magnesium, but it is a great argument for eating more leafy greens daily. It's really not difficult to get sufficient magnesium through diet if you're making even the smallest effort to consume more leafy greens, nuts, legumes, avocados, or even some dark chocolate.

            [–]FollowMe22Illuminate Labs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            That's a good point and I didn't have time to read the full research paper. I still don't see a reason why <1g supplemental magnesium daily would cause any harm in generally healthy people. The body will excrete excess magnesium that's not absorbed, and I haven't seen any evidence that this puts an undue strain on the kidneys at this low of a level. The majority of people would likely absorb the Mg anyway, since Americans are so deficient.

            I totally agree with you that diet should always be the first option (although remember that the nutrient levels of produce have dropped drastically due to modern agricultural practices which is part of the issue), and it's best to get an intracellular magnesium test if you're supplementing with high doses, to make sure that you're not wasting your money and potentially throwing other electrolytes out of balance. The problem is that most people can't afford this test and it isn't usually covered by insurance.

            Personally I was already eating a nutrient-dense diet and had to pay almost $500 out of pocket for this test, and I was still deficient in magnesium, which is why I started supplementing. But I recognize that not everyone has that option. For those who can't afford such a test I tend to think that supplemental magnesium is much more likely to help than harm them.

            [–]Chch5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Good catch, diNicoliantonio is a quack of the highest order, his salt advice will likely harm many, especially those with salt sensitivity snp’s

            [–]Dances_with_vimanas 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            So if someone is bipolar and they get their magnesium levels checked and they are deficient what can they do?

            [–]painkillerrr 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            He does not makes any direct link between magnesium and bipolar

            [–][deleted]  (6 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]LordDaedalus 6 points7 points  (1 child)

              No. I'm saying hypomania has been linked to excessive glutamate signaling and coming off magnesium might lead to a slight bump in that kind of activity, subtly mimicking those effects.

              [–]Pheniballs 5 points6 points  (3 children)

              I just want to add- don't buy magnesium oxide unless you want to waste your money. Terrible bioavailability

              [–]ValiumCupcakes 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              Second this. I was taking a high dose of oxide when I first started taking magnesium supplements, now I’ve switched to a combo of threonate, citrate and chelate, same dose, but now I can actually feel the magnesium working, I’m having more stable energy, and I’m sleeping much better

              [–]Melete777 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              What brand is this you’re taking?

              [–]ValiumCupcakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Doctors best

              [–]gwerngwern.net 19 points20 points  (4 children)

              It's possible that you're just reverting to baseline after gradual degradation from the magnesium supplementing. I've run 2 long-term blind self-experiments on magnesium so far, and puzzlingly, that's what both of them seem to show: https://gwern.net/nootropics/Magnesium

              I don't know why.

              [–]Lightflow 8 points9 points  (2 children)

              gradual degradation from the magnesium supplementing

              Can you expand on that?

              First conclusion says "magnesium supplementation does indeed help me a large amount, but I was taking way too much", second is absent, and quickish look over the page doesn't show anyhing about "gradual degradation".

              [–]gwerngwern.net 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              For the first experiment, I concluded that because it looked like initial benefits but then as the total magnesium load increased, a negative effect set in.

              So for the second experiment, I cut the dose way down and the same damn thing happened. And I couldn't find any useful model for the cumulative dose either, it just looked harmful.

              [–]Aldarund 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              That's interesting results. I wonder what the explanation for this

              [–]agree-with-you 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I agree, this does seem possible.

              [–]a-person-87 8 points9 points  (14 children)

              Which type of magnesium are you taking, OP?

              [–]a-person-87 8 points9 points  (0 children)

              Also, did the magnesium help with your brain fog initially?

              [–]MutedReindeer[S] 2 points3 points  (12 children)

              just oxide, but had the same effect with chelated, I dont think the form make that big of a difference

              [–]SgtFaecesProcessor 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              Dosage?

              I don't use too frequently tbf because I find the pills difficult to swallow, literally. Big fuckers.

              [–]MutedReindeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              this last time was 500mg oxide only, i will be trying with 1500mg next time, webber pills are pretty small

              [–]zikzak00 2 points3 points  (5 children)

              Magnesium oxide has very low bioavailability?

              [–]florilsk -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

              Your body uses it anyway if you are magnesium depleted?

              [–]utterballsack 4 points5 points  (3 children)

              your body doesn't just see magnesium oxide and, if in a magnesium-lacking state, think to itself " we don't have enough magnesium. let's just somehow get more magnesium from this form of magnesium that is hard to get more from"

              [–]jasnooo 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              MgO becomes MgCl after you eat it. MgO absorbs just fine.

              [–]Redstonefreedom 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Yea, at a molar fraction of like less than 5%. That’s the only thing low bioavailability means.

              MgO is useless; mg is way too tightly bound to the oxygen.

              [–]TractionDuck91 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              I find myself feeling very off and mentally foggy if I take any sort of magnesium, strange.

              [–]sammy4543 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              Might be taking too much.

              [–]inittowinit777 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              What’s an optimum dosage? I’m taking 200 mg every day

              [–]ValiumCupcakes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Recommend dose is 500mg a day I believe. I take 600 though personally, 400mg citrate, 150mg chelate and 50mg threonate.

              [–]rhoark 13 points14 points  (4 children)

              I'm of the belief that pretty much everything except oxygen should be pulsed.

              [–]MindCrow 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              I would include water too.

              [–]inittowinit777 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Pulsed?

              [–]Wedocrypt0 12 points13 points  (0 children)

              aka Cycled

              [–]notapersonaltrainer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Intermittent hypoxia is used by athletes to enhance performance. Also the Buteyko method is based on building up exhaled breath holds and is used to treat asthma.

              [–]qwertytrewq00 5 points6 points  (2 children)

              I've been taking magnesium/calcium/d3 jamieson cap before bed for years now and if I run out I start feeling pretty shitty... so the opposite. I'm pretty sure this shit can produce a withdrawal. I'll probably just take it for the rest of my life.

              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

              Damn. Im the exact, exact opposite. If I miss like three days I feel like garbage.

              [–]electriccomputermilk 4 points5 points  (4 children)

              I had to stop taking magnesium due to diarrhea. I've tried several forms and several brands, oxcide, citrate, threonate, and taurate. Tried taking 1/3rd of recommended amount but still affects me. Perhaps I'm getting enough magnesium in my diet already?

              [–]brynnors 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              Did you try malate and/or glycinate?

              [–]electriccomputermilk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Ah yes I also tried glycinate as well. I have not tried malate. I also have stomach issues though and possibly have IBS. I can't eat spicy foods anymore without serious issues.

              [–]iams_wu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Silica (horsetail is a good source) should help majorly with that

              [–]NattyFuckFace 13 points14 points  (5 children)

              I'd love to see the physical state of the people who have these issues. Nothing against you op, but when such a benign supplement causes such issues, are you sure it's not from other health concerns? Most people have a garbage diet, their health markers are terrible, they can barely make it up the stairs without huffing and puffing or they'll say something like "I walk 20 mins a day I'm fit" when they're 20 something, skinny fat with horrible posture.

              The nootropics lifestyle starts at diet and maximizing your physical potential. It is only then that the brain can truly thrive and benefit from an enhanced drug and supplementation regimen.

              [–]PragmaticPulp 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              I have a similar negative reaction to sustained magnesium supplementation. I'm not an elite athlete, but I'm firmly at the upper end of the range of physical fitness and activity.

              I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss isolated magnesium as a benign supplement. Anyone eating a healthy diet, as you suggest, would already be consuming plenty of magnesium. Adding some of the common magnesium supplement doses on top of an already magnesium-rich diet could be a recipe for over-accumulation or 2nd-order effects from imbalanced electrolyte intake.

              Keep in mind that humans don't naturally consume isolated magnesium in any form. I only recommend magnesium supplementation at low doses or in short bursts. Chronic daily intake of the 500-1000mg doses that are commonly shared here are too excessive to justify, IMO.

              [–]DrunkMonkey33 3 points4 points  (2 children)

              I'd love to meet someone who talks like this. Nothing against you NattyFuckFace but when people start making such broad judgements instead of providing helpful information, are you sure you are not coming off as an asshole?

              [–]NattyFuckFace 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Sorry man, it's just something I have seen personally having been around these communities for a while. Like I said, it's nothing against OP, but it is something to consider. Anecdotal reports need to be held under high scrutiny.

              [–]DrunkMonkey33 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I understand where you are coming from and I agree that anecdotal evidence needs to be held under high scrutiny but it also needs be seen as highly variable and as such, Constructive criticism of certain/specific aspects is perfectly okay but to assume most people do things in a certain way and that is the cause for their issues (implicitly shaming them for it) is judgemental and not helpful in any way.

              [–]MutedReindeer[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Physically very fit and healthy so no, I do however not eat that well

              [–]gibmesoj 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Magnesium ruins my sleep, so yeah stopping taking it for a while would give me a strong sleep rebound and a clear head.

              [–]Thoarke 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I've posted about this before, but basically I've tried pretty much every formulation of magnesium there is, at many different doses in isolation or with other supplements, and it didn't used to happen but now when I take magnesium I usually feel good for 1-2 days, then after a couple days I'm always sent into a dark depression/anhedonia/brain fog. After I cease supplementation I feel spectacular for 2-3 days before slowly returning to baseline. I don't know if it's NMDA related or not, but it's really annoying and I've given up on using magnesium for now.

              [–]Vandermeerr 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Can we get big pharma working on brain fog cure

              [–]californiarepublik 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              It seems to have a widely diverse variety of causes tho :).

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

              [removed]

                [–]Melete777 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                What’s your favorite brand out of all you’ve tried?

                [–]Jonassen86 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Magnesium is tough on your gut. Something might have been disrupted in your colon giving you brain fog. Magnesium is also used as a laxative. It depends on type of magnesium(oxide, threonate etc.) you use and excipients in your pill. Try some topical or bath salts and see if you get brain fog from that.

                [–]byoushashite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Magnesium makes me feel a little sleepy, but thus far it's also the only thing that seems to be helping with my costochondritis and preventing migraines. Meh.

                [–]baccheion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Magnesium can block release of norephinephrine and acetylcholine at higher concentrations. It also increases GABA. How much are you taking?

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Anecdotally speaking, taking a large amount of a single electrolyte such as 100% dri magnesium will only make me pee and feel dehydrated (+ brainfogged) It became better when I took it together with sodium chloride (no increases in urinary volume or brain fog)

                It could be that supplementing magnesium is throwing my electrolyte balance off causing the kidneys to excrete more Mg.

                Magnesium is a nice supplement imo, so of it’s giving you problems you could try a small amount of table salt (like a gram of sodium chloride (=500 mg sodium, no need to overdo it) and see if the side effects go away. If you respond, you should feel the fog lift like if you have stopped magnesium for a while.

                Its not a lot of salt, unless you’re on a salt restricted diet for any reason it’s worth a try.

                [–]mcxme 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Try mag l threotate instead

                [–]JFPouncey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Please share this on BrainFog.io!

                [–]carlsonbjj -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

                So magnesium is bad

                [–]dnf0sp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                No. He is suggesting that too much might be bad, i.e. oversupplementing or supplementing when not needed.

                [–]SkincareQuestions10 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                Try Sensoril.