User talk:Silverdragon3002
India NT results[edit]
Hi, a query regarding India NT results. In some of the India national football team results pages branched year wise, the Olympic qualifiers have been added as official matches whose status as FIFA A matches are not clear. They were not there before but have been added lately. Any suggestions, to keep them or not? Regards. Lancepark (talk) 17:28, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- Indian fa kind of recognises the Olympic matches as A matches but i am not sure whether FIFA recognises it as well. Other Asian national team such as Iran and Japan doesn't recognize Olympic matches as Full A. Neither does FIFA. Silverdragon3002 (talk) 18:52, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Drat8sub can give us an explanation. Also many matches added by this user such as the 1964 match in merdeka against Korea is not a full team neither is matches against Japan in either 1965 or 1966 merdeka cup are not considered A by Japan FA(most probably Played by Japan B)!!. Silverdragon3002 (talk) 19:02, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Lancepark:, Silverdragon, these were always there as full A matches in the original page i.e, India national football team results. The user who split and copied the materials from the original page, did not add the matches correctly, even did not put any attribution at the article talk page, which I will do tomorrow or so. The user just split according to the marking and symbols I added in the original article when I was arranging, adding and investigating NT stats during 2018-19. But due to personal reason I was inactive and now I find the splits. FYI, till 1988, all Olympic matches along with the qualifiers are A matches. All feds and confeds accepted them including Iran as you mentioned above. FIFA did not give any clarification on A match till today, earlier they used to keep a record in their website but around 2018 they removed because there were many matches which were not included and various feds pressurised for clarification, also statisticians and editors from RSSSF and IFFFHS repeatedly asked. FIFA however released highest international goals scorer lists several times where players having highest goal score have goal in all sorts of matches including oly, oly qual etc. FIFA only maintained full A matches since 1992 since the Olympic rules were changed then, and thus the ranking system starts from 1992 only, but not before 1992. FIFA also respects individual fed and confed stats, one such example is Cameroon in Nehru Cup was B team but FIFA accepted it as full A as AIFF considered it as full A, the Asian games matches till 1998, as AOC and AFC accepted the u23 rules from 2002 edition only. So in RSSSF we have decided matches which are considered full A by respective FA will be considered, also cross checked by the newspaper archives. Some starting XI is mentioned as JapanXI or KoreaXI in newspaper which are considered as full A for career statistics of players and in some cases newspapers clearly mentioned B team or amateur team or junior team which are not considered as full A. In simple words FIFA will never give clarification on matches played before 1992, because if FIFA do so, then half of European countries' FIFA matches will start from 1992 since east European country teams were sponsored by the govt and thus are considered as amateur teams. So, I hope you roughly got everything. Drat8sub (talk) 20:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- Above that seems like the user who split the main article must have added matches according to elo ratings which is not accurate since not so consistent with matches and is not valid, and ae now removed from NT infobox rankings few years back. Drat8sub (talk) 20:21, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Drat8sub Thanks for the info. There is a lot of ambiguity among national FAs on the inclusion of pre-1992 matches as part of official records as they have their own version of international match list, which includes matches recognised by their own FA and another list once listed on FIFA website. But from what I have seen most national FAs usually exclude Olympic qualification matches from their official records, with only matches played at the main Olympics tournament being recognised as official senior matches, as well as the main Asian Games or similar multisport medal events. So it seems for India while AIFF may recognise them, the corresponding team which India played against in those Olympic qualifiers as well as FIFA don't recognise them as official international matches.
- With respect to what constitutes the 'A' international you are right, there's no official clarification from FIFA. But if we go through the clauses of the Laws of the Game (FIFA), there are indications that the senior international match needs to be officiated by FIFA referee (to enforce the laws and keep record of the match) and the permissible number of player substitutions (exceeding the number can deem the match unofficial), but I am not sure if it will be be useful to assess the older or pre-1992 matches. As for the matches on FIFA website before 2018, there is a website (fifaranking) which kept a record of them albeit some matches seems to be missing, while (worldfootball) also keeps a near similar list. So it may be used to assess which matches were likely recognised and listed on the old FIFA website. Lancepark (talk) 09:16, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Lancepark:, Silverdragon, these were always there as full A matches in the original page i.e, India national football team results. The user who split and copied the materials from the original page, did not add the matches correctly, even did not put any attribution at the article talk page, which I will do tomorrow or so. The user just split according to the marking and symbols I added in the original article when I was arranging, adding and investigating NT stats during 2018-19. But due to personal reason I was inactive and now I find the splits. FYI, till 1988, all Olympic matches along with the qualifiers are A matches. All feds and confeds accepted them including Iran as you mentioned above. FIFA did not give any clarification on A match till today, earlier they used to keep a record in their website but around 2018 they removed because there were many matches which were not included and various feds pressurised for clarification, also statisticians and editors from RSSSF and IFFFHS repeatedly asked. FIFA however released highest international goals scorer lists several times where players having highest goal score have goal in all sorts of matches including oly, oly qual etc. FIFA only maintained full A matches since 1992 since the Olympic rules were changed then, and thus the ranking system starts from 1992 only, but not before 1992. FIFA also respects individual fed and confed stats, one such example is Cameroon in Nehru Cup was B team but FIFA accepted it as full A as AIFF considered it as full A, the Asian games matches till 1998, as AOC and AFC accepted the u23 rules from 2002 edition only. So in RSSSF we have decided matches which are considered full A by respective FA will be considered, also cross checked by the newspaper archives. Some starting XI is mentioned as JapanXI or KoreaXI in newspaper which are considered as full A for career statistics of players and in some cases newspapers clearly mentioned B team or amateur team or junior team which are not considered as full A. In simple words FIFA will never give clarification on matches played before 1992, because if FIFA do so, then half of European countries' FIFA matches will start from 1992 since east European country teams were sponsored by the govt and thus are considered as amateur teams. So, I hope you roughly got everything. Drat8sub (talk) 20:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Drat8sub can give us an explanation. Also many matches added by this user such as the 1964 match in merdeka against Korea is not a full team neither is matches against Japan in either 1965 or 1966 merdeka cup are not considered A by Japan FA(most probably Played by Japan B)!!. Silverdragon3002 (talk) 19:02, 23 June 2023 (UTC)