Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Balkanite
Balkanite banned from Bosniak identity topics for 6 months and 500 edits. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 13:02, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Balkanite
Balkanite has had issues with providing proper sourcing dating back to when they first started editing (talk page warning w/ explanation from 2020). This has continued to the present day, with many examples including the creation of articles entirely comprising OR at Draft:Bosniaks in the United Kingdom (6 May 2023) and similar titles. Their misuse of minor edits has also been continuous since they started editing, and they received a talk page notice about it in February 2022. The edits that I've highlighted at the beginning of this report, are particularly egregious, however, as they not only fail to provide adequate (or really, any) sourcing, they show clear intent to emphasize a specific ethnonationalist perspective (and, in the case of Bosniaks in Germany, directly contradict seemingly well-referenced claims at Bosniaks regarding the history of Bosniak vs."Muslim" identification under the successive governments of Yugoslavia. Given the persistence of sourcing issues over multiple years, there is a case to be made for a regular site block (although there perhaps has not been enough escalating warnings for that); I think that the persistent failure to cite sources and clear POV bent mean that at a minimum a topic ban from Bosniak history and identity is needed. signed, Rosguill talk 19:28, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning BalkaniteStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by BalkaniteI've been made aware of these accusations for a while. Since then, I've always ensured to properly cite my contributions towards any article that I made the decision to create or edit. Also, noting that there has not been any progress in the making of such articles in the page, I simply wanted to fill in the gap that was not addressed towards anyone who may have been interested in the topic. Also, the accusation that I'm attempting to "emphasize a specific ethnonationalist perspective" is perposterous, because it was evident at the time that there were zero recording of anyone in SFR Yugoslavia that identified as "Bosniaks" up until its dissolution. I'm beginning to be concerned that you're accusing me of propping up a nationalist perspective of an ethnic group that has recently became more prevalent since 1991, especially given the fact that I belong to said group, and preventing the addition of more information about them to fulfill WP:CITE and WP:NPOV, even though I have made it evident that I made sure to include the involvement of the ethnic group in various sides during World War I and II, and including information about the diaspora in other countries. You can see the same thing being done with other ethnic groups, however no action has been taken against them. I understand that your concerns may seem alarming as I have been misusing the "minor edit" button when it came to editing articles, but the reason being that misusage is that the majority of the contributions that I've made are actually minor, and do not entirely change more than half of the article that has been written. I do suggest that you refrain from the idea of banning me from providing more information to Bosniak history and identity, as I'm one of the few that finds time to add more information about the people, and its diaspora. I have not seen you made ANY contribution to any of the articles you're accusing me of editing and contributing towards, and it's unfair to accuse someone of emphasize a specific ethnonationalist perspective, especially when I do not mean to spread information intended to incite or mislead, AND when it comes from someone who has done absolutely ZERO research on the various subjects that led to the creation/editing of said articles. Wikipedia suffered a similar situation with the Croatian page back in 2013, as it suffered from a group of nationalists that wanted to smear Croatia's history to those that may have taken an interest in it by abusing the administrative powers that were given to them, and it became severe to the point where the Croatian government advised its citizens to not use Wikipedia as a source of information. Since then, there were countermeasures made to prevent such an incident from happening again. The reason why I'm named "Balkanite" in the first place is because of the fact that ethnic identity in the Balkans is based on the individual's perception of their origins, and given that it does not show any ethnic connotations other than what I've previously mentioned, I believe it shows exactly my stance on my perception of my own identity. Balkanite (talk) 01:45, 28 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Balkanite
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F2Milk
F2Milk blocked (as a normal admin action) indefinitely for clear battleground attitude and not being here to build an encyclopedia. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:05, 1 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning F2Milk
Current Issue
Previous Issues
Discussion concerning F2MilkStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by F2MilkLet me put say it out aloud about the current state of Wikipedia. We have a lot of gatekeepers and editors who make editing seem a chore. I am not going to mince words here. I have been editing Wikipedia for the last 20 years or more. There have been editors who seem to have an ulterior motive in removing other editor's edits citing 101 rules. eg notability, reliable sources etc. I have faced my fair share of editors (so called left-leaning editors) who want to shape Wikipedia in their own image. Reliable sources to them is CNN, Washington Post, etc. I put in an edit from Daily Mail saying 100 people died in a Hurricane, and the edit is removed. What difference does it make if CNN says 100 people died in Hurricane or if Daily Mail says 100 people died in Hurricane? None at all. We live in a polarized world where gatekeepers try to paint all conservative websites as unreliable, but put their so-called bias references like CNN, Washington Post, etc as reliable. Post something negative even if it is factual about their golden boy or party. eg the Democrats, they try to scrub everything to paint themselves as angels. Now if you call out the editors such as this, they will cry victim (the story of the boy who cried wolf comes to mind) and waste resources saying the other editor has cast aspersions on them. Give me a break. If you want civility, you better be more respectful of other's contributions and don't give flimsy excuses in your summary when removing other people's edits, especially in the Current Events section. I am not going to change my upfront approach to these matters. I will continue to point out the hypocrisy that we are currently witnessing in Wikipedia today. F2Milk (talk) 17:44, 28 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by Darkfrog24Non-admin, never edited that page, never met either of these people before. I'm going to address only the accusation that F2Milk cast aspersions and made personal attacks.
Conclusion: Not all of these diffs show personal attacks, but if there is context showing that FM was referring to specific Wikieditors as "bad faith actors," then FM engaged in name-calling, which violates WP:CIVIL. Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:03, 29 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning F2Milk
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Closetside
Closetside given a logged warning regarding edit warring and 1RR. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 08:04, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Closetside
Editor was subject of a 1R complaint filed recently and still on this page as I write this, resolved without sanction. There is a content dispute about the material subject of the reversions which will be dealt with in the usual way. Editor was offered the opportunity to self revert but has not, instead producing an unhelpful and false response alleging that I have broken 1R instead.
Discussion concerning ClosetsideStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by ClosetsideFirst, clearly explained why Selfstudier is guilty of violating 1RR. Second, I mentioned Selfstudier's userspace harrasment towards me in my response without elaborating. Selfstudier made three false allegations that I violated the rules: (a) claiming that my self-reverts violated 3RR and claiming (b) one of my disambiguating edits expressed a POV and (c) I was hounding Selfstudier. Repeated false allegations about rule violations constitute userspace harrassment. Third, Selfstudier claimed that Diff 3 in my explanation was not a revert. WP:3RR clearly states: "An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes or manually reverses other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert. Violations of this rule often attract blocks of at least 24 hours." Other editors' actions include reverts. Therefore, both Diff 3 and Diff 5, which occured within 24 hours, prove that Selfstudier violated 3RR. Fourth, based on Longhornsg's clarification I may have misrepresented Longhornsg's position. However, I reverted before the clarification, so the potential misrepresentation of their view is irrelevant here. I reverted based on the information I had. Fifth, I would like to redouble on my concession that by executing Diff 6, I violated 1RR. However, Diff 6 restored the page to the version right before Selfstudier's illegal revert. Next time, I will confront the 1RR-breaking (or 3RR-breaking for most articles) editor, asking them to self-revert, instead of reverting myself. I have never experienced such a situation before. I would like to apologize to the Wikipedia community for my error. In contrast, Selfstudier is clearly aware of the standard case of 1RR, but violated it anyway. In conclusion, Selfstudier's violation is far worse than mine. I regret my violation and pledge not to repeat it in the future. Selfstudier shows no regret for his clear violation; they even deny it. Additionally, they harassed me in my userspace. I appeal to a neutral administrator for a just verdict.
Statement by Darkfrog24Okay, the two edits were made within 24 hours of each other, and they're on the same page, so yes this is a 1RR violation, but on a fundamental level this looks like two invested editors with different worldviews in a content dispute. Closetside broke a clearly posted rule, so Closetside should get the standard response, but the core problem could be solved by more active use of dispute resolution. The talk page goes back to January 2023, and I don't see any RfC requests or 3O on that talk page. I do see Closetside and Selfstudier initiating talk page discussions about keeping/removing questionable material. I know how much pressure a person can feel to not let a wrong/"wrong" version of the article stand, especially if they think the other party will take that as giving up or tacitly conceding on the facts. Can you two reach an agreement not to make those assumptions or pretend to have made them? Darkfrog24 (talk) 00:48, 29 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Closetside
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CapnJackSp
Editors of this article need to engage in dispute resolution collaboratively and without turning discussions about content and sourcing into discussions about editors. Editors also need to ensure that they engage in reasonable and purposeful consensus building. If editors fail to do this and are preventing discussions from reaching consensus we can look at sanctions at that point. My intention is to keep an eye on talk page discussions. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 08:59, 3 October 2023 (UTC) | ||
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | ||
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning CapnJackSp
CaptainJackSparrow refuses to drop the stick. Despite multiple warnings, he repeatedly uses WP:OR and prevaricates about the obvious meaning of quotes from WP:RS to justify the removal of the result on 2001–2002 India–Pakistan standoff, and attempts to WP:GASLIGHT me instead of engaging with me in good faith.
No sanctions issued, but warning issued - see below.
User has posted template on their talk page in early 2022.
User previously warned for behaviour on ARE and given
Discussion concerning User:CapnJackSpStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by User:CapnJackSpWhile I may be held guilty of not investing too much time in the discussion cited, the string of allegations are widely inaccurate. When making the reverts, I saw someone using one source to justify writing the result of an India - Pakistan confrontation as being the "failure" of someone, as is frequently done by by vandals and new accounts with a POV to push - Which was the reason for my actions and arguments, which admittedly, could be framed better. I will do so below.
In essence, this is at best a content dispute that the OP has presented here. The OP has not even justified their claims against me - The claims regarding WP:GASLIGHT and WP:CIR do not match up to even their summary of events, let alone an unbiased reading of the situation. Indeed, the OP has continued to introduce material that has already been challenged, for which they know there is no consensus, and is changing longstanding material in the lead - This is not the mark of an editor interested in collaborative editing. The editor made no attempt at resolving the impasses through third opinion or RFC, instead attempting to brute force their preferred version through repeated reverts. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 21:25, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by TrangaBellamThis doesn't look good to me - I agree with literally everything said by the OP. And, not the first time that I have seen CJS engage in an idiosyncratic reading of sources that would have smacked of trolling if not for their usual competence in most areas. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:03, 28 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by Googlegy007I dont have much to contribute here, I agree with the OP. Recently I recieved this comment from CJS which struck me as offposting, I proceeded to check their contribs which, while nothing immediately jumped out as a policy violation, also felt off. Googleguy007 (talk) 12:46, 29 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by DSP2092Solblaze (talk · contribs) has accused CapnJackSp of violating Wikipedia policies, including WP:OR (original research), WP:GASLIGHT (gaslighting), and WP:AGF (assume good faith), and seeks enforcement of WP:ARBIP sanctions. Solblaze claims that CapnJackSp has been engaging in disruptive behavior by repeatedly removing content from the article that describes the standoff as an "Indian failure." They argue that CapnJackSp's removal of this content is not supported by reliable sources and that he has instead relied on his personal analysis, which violates WP:OR. I find Solblaze this edit problamatic here, he explained the reason for changes in the summary as 'trim lead to <4 paragraphs per MOS. Solblaze asserts that CapnJackSp has not adequately supported content regarding the "Indian failure" in the article. Solblaze should provide sufficient evidence or reliable sources to justify the Indian failure and appears that the burden of evidence lies with Solblaze to justify the inclusion of this specific content, especially if it's considered contentious. CapnJackSp (talk · contribs) claims that the changes made by Solblaze were contentious and introduced a new perspective into the article without sufficient consensus. CapnJackSp claims that the sources provided by Solblaze do not unequivocally support the claim that the standoff was an "Indian failure." He also asserts that Solblaze has failed to justify their changes according to WP:DUE (due weight) and WP:VERIFIABLE policies. Based on the arguments, this appears to be a content dispute rather than a clear-cut case of policy violations. The issue revolves around the interpretation of sources and the inclusion of specific content in the article. It is recommended that the involved parties seek consensus on the T/P or consider dispute resolution mechanisms, such as a request for comments (RFC), to address the dispute. DSP2092talk 05:21, 30 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by Solblaze@Callanecc: I've tried my best to engage in good faith with CJS for the last month. But it's like talking to a wall. I can quote scholarly sources ad nauseam only for CJS to ignore it all and respond with WP:OR and prevaricate in a manner that seems like borderline trolling. I have not violated the 1RR restrictions on the article, and I am welcome to other uninvolved editors' input on the matter (@TrangaBellam:, @Googleguy007: and @DSP2092: included). I will also start an RFC. I reiterate that my concern does not stem from a mere difference in points of view held by CJS, but rather from CJS's prevaricatory behaviour and defiance of WP:RS. CJS's conduct has not only been noted by myself but also been condemned by others within the community including a closing admin on ARE. Solblaze (talk) 09:02, 30 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by AbhishekThe edits by Solblaze clearly violates MOS:MIL (especially this and it was unwise for him to edit war over this thing without gaining consensus in the first place. That's all I have to say. Since "MOS:MIL" was not mentioned on the whole talk page,[6] I recommend no sanctions for any parties here. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 11:39, 30 September 2023 (UTC) Result concerning User:CapnJackSp
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Nhradek
Normal indef admin block as NOTHERE. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:55, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Nhradek
Discussion concerning NhradekStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by NhradekRead what we said in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Precognition. He can argue that I'm violating Wikipedia:Psci but they are violating WP:Neutral point of view in Precognition. Precognition is not WP:PSCI. Multiple studies and meta-analyses have shown this. Here's a link to the meta-analysis by Bem and Tressoldi, et al. disputing the claims of WP:PSCI. If I'm violating WP:PSCI then certainly they are violating WP:NPOV by not including the meta-analysis. I tried to include it but was reverted in this diff with the response " Daryl Bem is a hack" by @Hob Gadling. How does this not violate the core principle of WP:NPOV? I hit a nerve with the "skeptics" on this community but WP is not a posting board for their idealogical agenda. It's an online encyclopedia. Might I have violated WP:PSCI? Maybe, but they sure violated WP:NPOV and haven't given Daryl Bem a fair article in Precognition. In addition in Wikipedia:FRINGE/QS it clearly states an article should not be labeled WP:PSCI if reasonable debate still exists in the scientific community which it does. I quote from WP:FRINGE/QS Articles about hypotheses that have a substantial following but which critics describe as pseudoscience, may note those critics' views; however, such hypotheses should not be described as unambiguously pseudoscientific if a reasonable amount of academic debate still exists. How does the meta-analysis I included violate this? How did I violate WP:PSCI if there are meta-analyses and many studies providing evidence for precognition in the parapsychological literature? I don't wish to argue too much about violations in the Precognition article here, but how does the following statement in the article not violate WP:NPOV and WP:No_reliable_sources,_no_verifiability,_no_article? Despite the lack of scientific evidence, many people believe it to be real; it is still widely reported and remains a topic of research and discussion within the parapsychology community. It's like that everywhere and almost no supporting evidence for Bem or Tressoldi's research. There is scientific evidence in support of precognition including the analysis I cited earlier and in Talk. Claims that my edits and the topic of Precognition in general are WP:PSCI are nonsense and my citation of Bem and Tressoldi's meta-analysis should be included. Nhradek (talk) 23:13, 29 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by Darkfrog24I don't know either party and have never edited the pages in question. Given the diffs offered, the problem isn't that Nhradek refuses to respect Wikipedia's rules about pseudoscience. It's that Nhradek does not accept that precognition is pseudoscience. (It is; DGMW, Nhardek is wrong about this.) I noticed something else: All of the diffs offered here are talk page statements. Nhradek is saying on article and Wikipedia talk pages that they think precognition isn't pseudoscience. Yes, it's a bit strange, but it's not a problem the way, say, adding unsourced or improperly sourced material to Wikipedia articles about precognition would be a problem. This boils down to "Someone on the talk page has an annoying cherished belief." Nhradek, can you promise that you won't add anything to the articles if you can't find support for it in the types of sources that Wikipedia respects (just like everyone else has to)? Can you promise that you if you remove text from an article and others put it back, you'll use established dispute resolution processes (WP:3O, WP:RFC)? Also, I'd recommend that when you talk to any given individual person on that talk page, remember what you already said to them and whether or not that specific person found it unconvincing. During the Trump administration, we got a lot more information about how to change people's minds and why they believe what they believe, and it turns out that "show the same people the same evidence and arguments over and over" doesn't work. Darkfrog24 (talk) 16:29, 30 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Nhradek
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Darkfrog24
Not a topic ban violation, so no action is taken. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:38, 4 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Darkfrog24
DF24's long-standing restrictions are entirely absent from Wikipedia:Editing restrictions and Wikipedia:Editing restrictions/Archive, for no explicable reason. This should certainly be fixed, even if no action is taken with regard to the diff above. The two still-extant restrictions are detailed below.
Elided here are multiple doomed appeals, and all the original AE cases that led to the above sanctions. Throughout all of that, DF24 endlessly recycled both a (real or performative) failure to understand the nature of the restrictions, and a persecution-complex approach, in which DF24 was simply a victim of "accusations" and seemingly could not understand the nature of their disruption. And here we are again with exactly the same problems in evidence.
The unblocking admin in 2022 was pretty specific: "Given the history here, WP:AGF is not going to apply to you for some time" and "I reiterate my comment that this was a marginal close which could equally well have concluded with your remaining blocked. In the event of any future disruption you won't receive the benefit of the doubt". And ArbCom's own notes, on the case page: "The Committee notes that Darkfrog24 disputes some elements of the original AE filings. We emphasize that imposing an AE sanction requires only that a reviewing admin finds sufficient disruption to warrant action and is not an endorsement of every individual claim that may be made by the filer. After review of the current appeal, we find that there is no evidence in favor of lifting or modifying the topic ban, and the disruptive behavior, in the form of repeated relitigation of the circumstances of the topic ban, has continued." PS: I believe DF24 is also subject to one or more older T-bans that relate to specific fiction franchises, or something like that; they don't seem pertinent to this particular matter, though should be added to a DF24 entry at EDR.
@Courcelles: Yes, that resriction is certainly still in force. It's the one DF24 has appealed unsuccessfully over and over, and the reason their unblock was so marginal. Saying "I can't talk about that" is very different from linking pointedly to two sections of it, theorizing about whether you can get away with talking about MoS material because it happens to be on MoS subpages instead of the main MoS page, painting yourself as an "accusations" victim in the whole affair, and returning to the very subtopic that got you most in trouble, quotation puncutation, and declaring it an "issue" at MOS. If this isn't a T-ban violation, then I don't know what is. If it's allowed to slide, it will be taken as pure victory in having gamed the sanctions, and will surely escalate to more boundary pushing and more pretense that the crystal-clear T-ban is somehow incomprehensible. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 16:37, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Darkfrog24Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Darkfrog24Statement by ThryduulfI was very unimpressed by Darkfrog24's actions between the topic ban being imposed and their being unblocked and have been accused of various bad things by SMcCandlish recently so it's best I'm not regarded as neutral here (hence not posting in the section below) but the diff in this report is not, in my opinion, a violation of the topic ban I imposed all those years ago. Generally it is never a violation of a topic ban to discuss that topic ban, which includes explaining why it prevents you answering questions you've been asked or cannot take part in a discussion you've been invited to, as long as the discussion is not so extensive as to be disruptive. DF should not need it clarifying that their topic ban covers all MOS subpages (and their talk pages), but now that it has been clarified there should be no issues going forwards. I have not been following DF's editing since their unblock so I make no comment about whether their behaviour has improved only that there is no evidence presented here to show it hasn't. Thryduulf (talk) 22:28, 3 October 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Darkfrog24
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KhndzorUtogh
This specific dispute as presented is a content dispute that should be resolved through discussion on the talk page, and if at an impasse there, through any of the content-related options at WP:DRR. The OP has received a logged warning (diff) in a related complaint at ANI where WP:FORUMSHOP, which this AE report represents, played a role. WP:1RR was also applied to the page in question. Additional links and notes are in the Result section. El_C 01:21, 6 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning KhndzorUtogh
KhndzorUtogh showed some persistent unhelpful behavior where they try to override any concerns through edit-warring, reverting to their favorite version - typical for the WP:AA3 area. In this particular case the discussion has stalled and indeed, I think there isn't much to discuss further amid such problematic additions. Currently this significantly impairs article content and I placed the NPOV tag on the article. Perhaps an administrative action is now warranted. @El C: Personally I don't consider it to be "competing WP:AA3 complaints running in parallel" - the ANI thread was about different article and a comment made at the talkpage, while this one concerns different matter - an edit-warring in another's article namespace (even if both articles fall under WP:AA3). That's why I decided to file this report.
Discussion concerning KhndzorUtoghStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by KhndzorUtoghStatement by (username)Result concerning KhndzorUtogh
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Lightburst
Lightburst warned for discussion style in relation to BLP and GENSEX. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:42, 7 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Lightburst
For explanation, see below.
After British transgender activist and ex-convict Sarah Jane Baker was scheduled to run at DYK, Lightburst made a post at DYK's noticeboard in opposition; he objected to the specific hook and image, as well as the notion of finding any alternative. As a result, Baker was pulled from prep, where discussion continued. Lightburst criticized the hook as gratuitous, provocative, and confusing; he also criticized her scheduled DYK appearance in general (and the image slot in particular) as giving exposure to a person he feels does not deserve it. Throughout both discussions, Lightburst displayed the following behaviour:
I wrote that I was Taken together, this request is not about Lightburst's personal views on gender and sexuality. It is about disruptive and belligerent behavior in a contentious topic area as it pertains to the Main Page. Lightburst has spuriously advocated to bar Baker from running at DYK at all, citing only his view that Baker is a bad person and therefore should not be given Main Page exposure. This push was sprinkled with objectionable rhetoric, as well as Lightburst's personal opinions on Baker; when that rhetoric was challenged collegially, Lightburst refused to engage constructively. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:50, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning LightburstStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by LightburstI have no history of editing articles in this area of the project. I engaged collegially with every editor in the the discussions and I discussed the subject of the nomination. The name calling began with Theleekycauldron referring to my valid concerns as transphobic. Enough people agreed with me that the nomination was pulled and sent back to discussion. But Theleekycauldron was still pushing for a version of the hook that was rejected. New hooks were proposed and I weighed in on which ones seemed best. 4meter4 then did a full review of the nomination which ended with them referring to my previous comments as transphobic; they specifically cited the fact that Theleekycauldron gave them license to call me the name. I asked 4meter4 to retract their PA but instead they sent up a wall of text justifying the PA. I tried again and they sent up another wall of text. I knew it would raise hackles for me to say "jump in the lake" or to place a charged request on 4meter4's talk page. If I need to be sanctioned for being curt with an editor who leveled a PA I can accept that. For me the matter was closed after the 4meter4 nomination review and there appeared to be a consensus to run one of the new hooks. I was only trying to get 4meter4 to remove what I consider to be a PA. As for the charge that I refused to use correct pronouns It is my practice to refer to "the person" or "the subject" when commenting on articles. See here in my nomination statement and here in this rationale for how I customarily refer to people in discussions. Both 4meter4 and Theleekycauldron have not assumed good faith in violation of WP:5P4. Many people collegially discussed the issues with the nomination and got it back on track - but only two editors leveled a PA against me: 4meter4 and Theleekycauldron. Lightburst (talk) 14:10, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
Statement by 4meter4For my own part, I was doing my best to shepherd a contentious DYK hook through the nomination process. This meant summarizing and reading through both conversations at Template:Did you know nominations/Sarah Jane Baker and Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 195#Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Sarah Jane Baker and Nomination at Prep 2 and attempting to arrive at a consensus opinion. Lightburst made formal requests in both places to not promote this topic to the main page based on moral grounds, and it seemed impossible to promote a hook without addressing that request per our policies at WP:NPOV and WP:NOTCENSORED and the DYK hook approval process. This inevitably required addressing some of the problematic comments made by Lightburst which were identified by theleekycauldron as transphobic. It would be impossible to address a censorship request without looking at the POV of the person making the request. It's unfortunate that Lightburst took these comments as personal attacks, but I don't really see how these conversations could have happened differently given Lightburst's behavior, his choice of language, and his goal of trying to impose censorship within a DYK review.4meter4 (talk) 15:28, 5 October 2023 (UTC) Statement by Edward-Woodrow(Non-administrator comment) Editors can have whatever convictions they choose. But they should be careful of sharing their beliefs, especially if such comments could be harmful or offensive. Such belligerent behaviour should have some consequences. Edward-Woodrow • talk 20:35, 5 October 2023 (UTC) Result concerning Lightburst
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Leyo
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Leyo
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- KoA (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:32, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Leyo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically_modified_organisms#Contentious_topic_designation
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically_modified_organisms#Casting_aspersions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- October 3, 2023
Comment on the two users who voted for deletion of this article: Smartse states on their user page “This editor is an exclusionist.” KoA has removed valid content from this article in edit warring mode.
Pursuing editors to AFD and sniping at editors rather than focusing on content. - October 5, 2023
This is not really a surprise bearing in mind that JzG’s only contribution to this article was deletion of content.
Similar sniping, this time at JzG. - See previous AE for diffs dealt with there
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 2013 Warned at ANI for aspersions in pesticide topics
- August 2023 Administrative action review (following me around and making a block a WP:INVOLVED block).
- August 2023 AE closed with no action, but Bradv advised Leyo to read the comments and course-correct.
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- August 21, 2016
- October 17, 2018
- June 4, 2023 (see the system log linked to above).
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
After the last AE, I was advised to come back here if Leyo kept hounding editors and sniping on article talk pages and recent discussion here. More diffs/background on Leyo are at that AE link; the short summary is that I've dealt for years with WP:ASPERSIONS from Leyo (see the GMO principle for how disruptive editors frequently used those tactics to poison the well). They escalated the harassment this August where despite multiple cautions that they were WP:INVOLVED related to me, they used their admin tools to block me. This was pretty resoundingly found as both an involved and bad block on substance at XRV as well as some comments about Leyo clearly following my edits to articles they haven't edited. The first time I came to AE, it was to get help with the behavior problems independent of the admin tool abuse.
Not addressing Leyo's behavior at AE seems to have emboldened them where they are now sniping at other editors on talk pages engaging in poisoning the well at perceived opponents in a very clear WP:BATTLEGROUND fashion. After the AE, I recently did have to remind Leyo I was trying to avoid them as much as possible and asked them to do the same after some sniping about me using the term "we" when referring to multiple editors who had been working on improving an article. That one incident was so low-level I was just trying to ignore it, but they're clearly not going to leave me alone it seems.
The first diff has Leyo showing up at an AfD for an article they never edited (potential WP:HOUNDING), but even if the article was on their watchlist, that would still be no excuse for continued sniping. This escalated to Leyo going after SmartSE in that diff and then JzG in the next diff despite being warned so many times, especially after the last caution by Bradv. This pursuit is why I asked for an interaction ban originally since Leyo basically just said they'd step back from admin duties, but repeatedly remained silent on the underlying behavior. Since Leyo is now targeting other editors though, I don't know if an interaction ban towards me alone would solve the issues, but I'm opening this because multiple editors and admins have also requested it. KoA (talk) 16:32, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- As I looked into this more, I've been finding that Leyo has been doing this under the radar as textbook WP:TE behavior for about a decade now in this topic starting with the warning I linked at ANI in 2013 for comments like
Your massive removal of content and your arguments remind me on industry positions and tactique
targeting Bon courage. There was another ANI in 2019 were Leyo also went after JzG in the pesticide topic threatening to block JzG if Leyo didn't get their way. It's very clear Leyo is treating chemical topics as a personal battleground stirring the pot in the same way that led the GMO ArbCom case. KoA (talk) 16:48, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Leyo
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Leyo
I mostly disagree with the statements/interpretations above, e.g.:
- I was not hounding anyone here. When I edited the de.wikipedia version in 2015, I added the en.wikipedia article to my watchlist (as I often do with other articles). At that time, I intended to improve both language versions, but I probably forgot about it or I didn't find the time. I noticed the AfD tagging by an obscure IP from Finland with few days delay, because I was offline during several days for real-life reasons.
- JzG is probably right concerning my language skills. English was only the fourth language I learnt after German, French and Latin. While I am used to read and write scientific texts, I am much less so finding the appropriate wording in delicate discussions. In contrast, I consider KoA to be exceptionally skilled to find convincing wording in discussions.
- As opposed to KoA's claim above, most of my contributions in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pesticide Action Network are solely on the content. However, I felt it is an important piece of (factual) information for the closing admin that a certain user has removed (in my view) clearly valid content (example) from the article (without which the views of uninvolved users in the AfD discussions). At the same time, I should not have mentioned Smartse's exclusionist user page tag, since it is unrelated to the AfD discussion. Apologies for that.
- As I decided not start a new battleground (and lacked the energy and time), I did not revert KoA's and JzG's removal of valid content from the article in 2019 and in 2023 (which I became aware of via my watchlist).
- Most of the diffs provided above and below are from before the AE in August 2023, i.e. they have already been considered.
--Leyo 21:19, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- Of the users giving statements in this AE, Darkfrog24 is the only user who is not involved in the case (not counting admin Extraordinary Writ who is not involved either).
- If anyone still thinks I'm lying and that I found the AfD by following KoA instead of via my watchlist, they might want to take note of e.g. this 2019 discussion about the mass removal of references to pesticideinfo.org (see also PesticideInfo chemical ID (P11949)), a database run by PAN. --Leyo 15:10, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Smartse
Given the short interval since the admin action review and the arbitration enforcement, it was surprising to see Leyo arrive at the AFD which KoA had already !voted in considering that they have never edited the article nor the talk page despite several recent discussions. At least to me, it appears as if they have continued to follow KoA around in what seems to be a clear case of WP:HOUNDING. It was even more surprising given the recent admonishments they were given about their behaviour that they have chosen to make snide remarks questioning the motives of myself, KoA and JzG. The previous AE discussion was moving towards an IBAN between KoA and Leyo, but given that they are now targeting multiple editors who oppose them, I suggest that a topic ban is now necessary. SmartSE (talk) 17:35, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Tryptofish
KoA and Smartse have already provided pretty much all the relevant documentation, but I do want to add this diff: [17], from the recent WT:MEDRS discussion that also included the exchange about the supposed "royal we". Taken with the multiple diffs already provided above, especially those from the current AfD, one can see a very repetitious and ongoing pattern of Leyo going after other editors (KoA, Smartse, JzG, maybe others) who have different views about GMO/chemical content than Leyo has, and making unsubstantiated assertions that those editors' views should not be taken as valid. What really stands out to me is that, following the recent AE, the premise was that if Leyo backed off from the hostile interactions with KoA and others, no further action would be needed. Unfortunately, what is abundantly clear here is that, instead, Leyo has done the opposite. Although not using admin tools, Leyo has nonetheless continued the battleground conduct directed at his perceived adversaries, unabated. Clearly, the advice of the previous AE didn't work. Sanctions are needed. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:20, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- I see Leyo's reply as confirming the need for sanctions. Perhaps Leyo does have some language limitations, but competence is required. Even if Leyo was not hounding anyone, that does not justify what he has said about other editors. He acknowledges this about Smartse, but not about KoA or JzG, which is telling. Neither does being "right" about content justify it. And if anyone wants to get a handle on where Gtoffoletto's statement is coming from, just see Talk:Glyphosate#RfC: is the EFSA factsheet on Glyphosate an accurate summary of the EFSA's review?. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:59, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Statement by JzG
Well, this explains the instant WP:ABF here [18], anyway - Leyo obviously remembers me, though I don't remember them. The best solution to the issue at hand would be to find reliable independent secondary sources that give WP:SIGCOV. Needless to say, if such existed, we would not be here. I personally feel that Leyo has crossed the line from documenting the subject to advocating for them. As a speaker of three languages and resident in CH, I guess maybe Leyo is not aware of how aggressive their statements sound? Guy (help! - typo?) 18:42, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Gtoffoletto
I saw someone mention AE in the AfD discussion and imagined something like this must be happening... Leyo has been obviously following the developments of many of the pages currently being edited by KoA and others. Definitely not hounding. Just following the topic. There has been a lot of edit warring involved on those pages such as the current attempt at deleting the Pesticide Action Network page while removing most of its basic and non controversial content without any consideration. The same is being done to other NGO pages such as Environmental Working Group where editors (despite overwhelming lack of consensus) are attempting to remove any basic addition from the page forcing the community to discuss trivial topics for months. This is the second attempt by the same editor at removing Leyo from the conversation in the last few months. Especially since Leyo is clearly not participating in the discussions as an admin, this seems flimsy at best. I think WP:CPP is a relevant essay here. We are collectively wasting a lot of time trying to maintain the encyclopaedia, but I'll let others decide (Caveat Emptor: User talk:Gtoffoletto#July 2023). {{u|Gtoffoletto}} talk 21:11, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Darkfrog24
Not involved in the recent conflict. I've interacted with JzG and Trypto before but I don't remember when or where off the top of my head. First diff: Leyo repeats someone's userpage self-description and claims someone was edit warring. Second: Snippy but not exactly casting aspersions. Third: "Please read the comments and course-correct as necessary." I don't see anything wrong. Other: "Your actions here remind me of [this negative thing]" is relatively mild phrasing.
I don't think any of these are aspersions or even unWP:CIVIL. Manners-wise, I don't see Leyo doing anything that's even unusual in the diffs offered in the complaint. I mean, I've had someone literally call my contribs feces and it didn't trigger WP:CIVIL (not his exact words).
The issue that Leyo is following KOA around is more concerning and seems to have more meat on it, given that KOA has explicitly asked them for space and that there was at least one confirmed improper act on Leyo's part. If someone's asked you to leave them alone, it is usually best to respect their wishes whenever reasonably practical. I've done it, and it wasn't even an inconvenience. Darkfrog24 (talk) 00:34, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Lightoil
I think that WP:AE is the wrong place for this complaint against Leyo. I suggest instead filing an ARBCOM case request to settle this issue once and for all as Leyo is an admin. The reason being AE cannot remove admin status. Lightoil (talk) 16:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Leyo
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- The latest diffs are not great, but I'm not sure how much they really move the needle, especially if we accept that Leyo found the AfD via watchlist rather than via hounding. At this point my instinct would be to do what was suggested in the last AE: give a logged warning to avoid battleground behavior and focus on content rather than contributors. I'm not sure an IBAN would really be effective (per above, this doesn't seem to be a KoA-specific problem), and I don't think we've reached the point yet where a topic ban would be proportionate. That said, the elephant in the room here is that we're talking about a sysop, and there's arguably a stronger case to be made that this behavior falls afoul of WP:ADMINCOND. Whether or not it's time to go to WP:ARC is above my pay grade, but every instance of poor behavior increases the chances that this'll need to be resolved there. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:08, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Cukrakalnis
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Cukrakalnis
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Marcelus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:46, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Cukrakalnis (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Topic ban in "Lithuanian collaboration with Nazi Germany" area
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- [19] – removal of Lithuanian Territorial Defense Force from the category "Lithuanian collaboration with Nazi Germany"
- [20] – same for Święciany massacre committed by Lithuanian police in German service
- [21]]- same for Lithuanian TDA Battalion
- [22] – same for Category: Lithuanian Auxiliary Police; Essentially, C rebuilt the category tree so that most Lithuanian units collaborating with Nazi Germany are not directly in Category:Lithuanian collaboration with Nazi Germany but in Category:Generalbezirk Litauen, which is the name of the occupying German administrative unit.
- [23], series of edits in which C removed any information about LTDF collaboration with Nazi Germany, notice the change of text from “LTDF was subordinate to the authorities of Nazi Germany” to “LTDF was disbanded for being insubordinate to the authorities of Nazi Germany” ([24]), while both are true, one shouldn’t replace the other.
- [25] in this edit C also removed the attribution of the statement that 983 LTDF soldiers were sent to the Oldenburg concentration camp to the historian Arūnas Bubnys, although this information only appears in his older works (it does not appear in more recent works), and is not repeated by any other researcher of LTDF history. In general, the existence of the Oldenburg camp is questionable. In general, I noticed that much of this edition is a verbatim copy of a machine translation of Bubnys article ([26]) which I reported to WP:CPN (from words "On 23-24 November 1943" to "with military units assigned to them").
- [27] - removal of Category:Lithuanian collaborators with Nazi Germany from article on LTDF commander Povilas Plechavičius
- [28] - removal of link to article on the unit's collaboration with the Germans
- [29] – Cukrakalnis introduced a change in which he stated that Yad Vashem claims that “the Lithuanian Provisional Government 'did not encourage brutal actions' against Jews and that only high-ranking Communist officials and members of the NKVD were supposed to be punished by death”. In fact, this was a misrepresentation (combining the description of LAF and PG activities) of the words of Lithuanian historian Vygantas Vareikis, published in a work by Yad Vashem.
- [30], removal of information of 259th Lithuanian Schutzmannschaft Battalion allegiance to Nazi Germany
- [31], same for 258th
- [32], same for 256th
- [33], same for 10th
- [34]: trying to talk to C about these changes is very difficult. In this conversation I asked for the reinstatement of allegaince to Nazi Germany in the infoboxes of Lithuanian Schutzmannschaft Battalions quoting the source. C replied "fixed" pointing to his edit where he added the parameter "branch = Ordnungspolizei" ([35]). When I pointed out that I was advocating addition of the parameter "allegiance = Nazi Germany", he replied: "It was not part of the Wehrmacht, so adding Ordnungspolizei is more accurate", completely ignoring the thing I asked for. Typical example of WP:NOTGETTINGIT.
- [36]: C makes also WP:PERSONAL attacks against me. For example: “you just want to demonize it as 'collaborationist'", "Your shameful attempts, shameful behaviour on your part”, “your incessant questioning of the numbers provided by one of the foremost Lithuanian experts on the matter, Arūnas Bubnys, whose given information you even accused as 'fringe' in this edit, which is absolutely shameful behaviour on your part” show lack of ability to remain level-headed in this topic.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- [37], C was blocked in the past, and promised to “cease engaging in ethno-nationalist and homophobic provocations on Wikipedia” and dedicate himself to “purely to editing military and neutral history”.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
In my opinion edits undertaken by Cukrakalnis, are incompatible with the spirit of Wikipedia and calculated to hide inconvenient historical facts that he does not favor. And due to the fact that I am one of the few editors who monitors this area, I am concerned that they may go unnoticed. I have had disputes with C in the past on various topics, and while I have not always found his edits to be the best, I consider his edits on the topic of collaboration with Nazi Germany to be particularly alarming, as the misrepresentations made on this topic is in my opinion especially harmful. Still, I think C is capable of giving a lot in other areas.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Cukrakalnis
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Cukrakalnis
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Cukrakalnis
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.