Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Marcelus
Marcelus's AE block replaced with indefinite 0RR per the consensus of uninvolved admins. Piotrus has also volunteered to mentor Marcelus which was agreed between them on Marcelus's talk page. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:49, 27 September 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Marcelus
The 0rr was previously downgraded to a 1rr before following a successful AN appeal [9]. I remember supporting his 0rr appeal as he previously seemed to understand the disruption caused by his editwarring in the past. I ran into him again while commenting on some WP:RM's (namely [10]), noticed his contributions and saw what looks like a 1rr evasion to me.
Additional statements by ProdraxisI have no comment regarding the removal of the content itself per se, but am rather more concerned about the potential breach of the 1RR here. Also, regarding the previous report - at the time, I was less mature and less experienced and I am sorry for all disruption caused by said report, and it was made in haste without considering the full background of the situation. I'm not siding with anyone here, just that Marcelus may have broken his 1RR recently. As long as Marcelus self reverts and discusses on a Talk page or something further regarding the content without any more reverts I am OK for letting go without sanctions this time. #prodraxis connect 14:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning MarcelusStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by MarcelusI am sorry that my edits were interpreted by Prodraxis as a violation of the rule, at the time of making them I had no such realization. The first edition was simply a restoration of the well-sourced content ([14]) removed by Cukrakalnis. I immediately started a discussion about it on the C discussion page ([15]), since I didn't want it to turn into edit waring. Also, I immediately added a new source ([16]), since C had objections to one of the original two (that's why I didn't consider it revert). Then I added some more new content ([17]). C then removed the mention of the Polish name again, but giving again as the reason his objections to only one source - Tomaszewski 1999 ([18]). This seemed to me to be wrong and against the rules, so I restored the Polish name again with three sources, but did not restore the information that only Tomaszewski 1999 (objected by C) confirmed, that is, regarding the household language ([19]). FYI: previous report on me by Prodraxis. Marcelus (talk) 08:11, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Cukrakalnis
Statement by OstalgiaI think the sanction applied by Tamzin is proportional to the infraction, and just want to point out that this is the nth case involving Marcelus and Cukrakalnis. Given the huge overlap between Lithuanian and Polish history, and the evident bad blood between them, perhaps a 2-way IBAN could help prevent further disruption. Ostalgia (talk) 20:47, 15 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by PiotrusAs noted, I'd be happy to mentor Marcelus by answering any and all qurries they have and/or offering mediation if discussions gets heated and I am informed of the situation (I am also relatively familiar with the topic area). That said, while I am active and can answer wiki queries within a day or so, there's not much I can do after the revert except explain why it was a bad idea :P That said, I think 0RR is unfeasible and if it is applied, I'd advise Marcelus to not edit at all. Seriously, 0RR is just asking to be banned later or abstain from editing. The fact that Marcelus survived 0RR once alraedy should be enough to give him more ability to edit regularly, under 1RR+mentorship. On a side note, INHO 1RR is also better for seeing how an editor behaves, since it offers a bit of a rope that generally should not be used. Perhaps a compromise might be 0RR for the next month, then 1RR for the next few months (indef until an appeal here at 6-12 month mark?). And my early mentor advice to Marcelus would be: 1) don't revert anything without asking me first and 2) try to stay away from any controversies in the Polish-Lithuanian topics, or any controversies in general, as it is too easy to make a bad edit in such articles. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:40, 21 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Marcelus
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Trakking
Trakking subject to indefinite WP:1RR and warned for making personal attacks and personalizing disputes. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:08, 27 September 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Trakking
This is not all inclusive, there is likely other problematic behavior exhibited by this editor, but I've already spent a lot of time putting this together to show Trakking's consistent problems with incivility and edit-warring. They were warned about calling editors they disagree with "left-wing activists" on 29 March 2023. Their talk page shows at least six warnings for edit warring, including some by admins that could be considered a final warning. ––FormalDude (talk) 19:38, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning TrakkingStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by TrakkingThis only concerns some minor edits—nothing serious. Yes, I called a guy a leftist activist once. Why? Because he reverted different people's edits with phrases like "another rightist who tries to change this part of the article". Fun fact: I have had friendly and fruitful discussions with this guy afterwards. I consider him a valuable partner on Wikipedia. Two of my reverts at the template were because users mistook my edit for another edit, which they wanted to revert. One of the users apologized for his mistake while the other one has remained silent without reverting again. Someone insinuated today that I may have canvassed a guy, but this is a false accusation, because if you follow the history, I was reverting this guy's edits on another page. He is NOT my friend. I only made two reverts in the PragerU article. This edit was my own addition of information, which is not considered a revert. There were other users edit-warring on that article as well, but I promise to stay off it henceforth.
Statement by SpringeeThis seems premature. I think FormalDude is jumping the gun on this complaint. While they provided a long list of diffs, about half are from quite some time back. They make it look like Trakking has obviously violated 3RR but looking at the edit history I'm not seeing that. I see 1 original edit (08:55am) and then 3 other good faith attempts at alternative compromise wording. Yeah, it probably would have been better to go to the talk page after the first compromise edit was reverted but this isn't a simple case of someone making a BOLD edit then restoring it 3 times. The talk page comment is unadvisable since it impugns the motives of other editors however, I do think some of the talk page comments here [[23]] and revert comment like, " when Republicans became anti-truth, truth became "leftist"", while not directly attacking any editor, are not exactly bringing the temperature down either. Honestly, I think a quick close with some trout small trout for Trakking for the talk page comment and additional trouting for FormalDude bringing such a minor issue to these boards. Disclaimer: Involved in the general topic but not the specific discussion in question) Springee (talk) 22:13, 16 September 2023 (UTC) @FormalDude: also correcting accidental "ForumDude" to "FormalDude" with apologies Springee (talk) 22:23, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by uninvolved AndrevanClear siteban is merited. Andre🚐 22:18, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by DlthewaveI'm active at the PragerU article but uninvolved in the current discussion. Diff #8 popped up on my watchlist and raised my eyebrows - It's not appropriate to remove all mention of criticism from the lead with some vague handwave about "leftist criticism". Diff #9 is an immediate reinstatement of the same content, 9 minutes later, without discussion. This was bright-line edit warring. Dismissing editors in the discussion as "left-wing activists" and pinging a different set of editors (diff #1) is also entirely inappropriate, and they pull the same stunt again in Diff #11. The fact that these edits span 6 months is not a mitigating factor, rather it shows that they have not learned their lesson despite having received a number of talk page warnings about edit warring and civility during that time. It's clear that folks have had enough of this incivility and tendentiuous editing and it's time for soemthing stronger than a slap on the wrist. –dlthewave ☎ 23:03, 16 September 2023 (UTC) Springee, these two edits [26][27] are removing the same content 9 minutes apart with no attempt to discuss. Is that not edit warring? –dlthewave ☎ 23:05, 16 September 2023 (UTC) I think that a logged warning and possibly 1RR would be sufficient here. Discretionary sanctions allow any uninvolved admin to give such a warning/restriction as they see fit, so there’s really no need to drag this out any further. –dlthewave ☎ 17:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by DanielRigalAs far as I can tell, Trakking first appeared on my radar back in December 2022. It might seem odd to bring up behaviour from so long ago but I think it is relevant here because it is so similar to the much more recent behaviour at PragerU (in which I am involved). Trakking made two edits to Nazism which were both unmerited removal of sourced content, seemingly for no better reason than that Trakking disagreed with what was being said. First removing the referenced description of Nazism as "far-right" (and marking the edit minor), despite this being covered in the FAQ, and then yoinking out an entire paragraph with an edit summary that confirms a pretty extreme POV. I reverted those edits and put a fairly gentle level 2 warning on Trakking's User Talk page and got accused of trolling for my trouble. The drama then shifted to the Talk page where Trakking insulted the authors of the content accusing them of dishonesty and Stalinism and calling the paragraph "insidious". The whole wretched saga is archived here. This establishes the pattern of POV editing that we see, on and off, to this day. The current dispute over on PragerU is similar in many ways. Trakking yoinked a chunk of text, with a dubious edit summary, and got into a small edit war, only taking to the Talk page when somebody else started a thread. A pattern of removing content for POV reasons and then not respecting consensus is well established. When things did not go Trakking's way they canvassed AbiquiúBoy into joining the fray. AbiquiúBoy is a new user who could easily have stepped on a rake editing such an article! Fortunately, AbiquiúBoy didn't step on any rakes and focused instead on trying to improve the chunk that Trakking had tried to remove. I'm not happy about the canvassing but I don't think that AbiquiúBoy has done anything wrong and, even if he had, that wouldn't entirely be his fault even if a more experienced user would probably have known to be a bit more cautious about being canvassed. So, what should we do here? I don't think we need a siteban but we do need to do something. It is clear that Trakking has a POV that they can't or won't let go of. Maybe a topic ban from post-1945 US politics (broadly construed) and maybe from other global far-right related topics would make sense? --DanielRigal (talk) 23:59, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by AbiquiúBoy[Answering FormalDude’s comment to Springee] It was a mistake lad, why assume bad faith? AbiquiúBoy (talk) 09:04, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by TrangaBellamSiteban is merited - WP:NONAZIS. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:20, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by AndreasI would recommend a quick re-read of Wikipedia:Comment on content, not on the contributor#What is considered to be a personal attack? – along with some reflection on how sticking to the advice given there might help Wikipedia and make life easier for all the individuals involved, especially when they have different views. --Andreas JN466 19:30, 17 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by GeneralrelativeSpeaking as one of the editors who was called a "left-wing activist" on article talk by Trakking, I am most certainly involved here. A few points:
Cheers, Generalrelative (talk) 20:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Willbb234Regarding the dispute over Template:Fascism sidebar, it does not appear that this was motivated by a particular POV. It seems like it was a bad case of edit warring and should be treated as such; from what I understand, it centred around the question of how to express Nazism in the sidebar. I agree to an extent with Trakking over the dispute at PragerU. It seems like the critisicm section in the lede might be a little off balance when summarising what is in the body. Still, the paragraph should not be deleted in whole and a different approach should have been taken. It doesn't seem as if this was motivated by a particular POV and instead the issue should rather be what can be done to ensure that edit warring of this nature does not happen again. I would also note that of the three parties mainly involved in the initial part of the relevant talk page discussion, one party based their argument on their POV, another based it on some vague principles relating to how the content had "been in the article for several months" and "that starting such a discussion would be time-wasting", while Trakking based their argument on the manual of style. Out of these three parties, Trakking clearly took the best approach on the talk page. Willbb234 22:03, 17 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by ThebiguglyalienUninvolved except for previous interactions with these editors, but sometimes the quiet part needs to be said loud. An editor is making edits that clearly have a right-wing lean to them.
Statement by Beyond My KenRecently, I was wondering why Nazism and fascism have never been considered to be a contentious topic or, formerly, a candidate for discretionary sanctions. Given stuff like this, I think that would be a reasonable move. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:41, 23 September 2023 (UTC) Result concerning Trakking
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Balkanite
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Balkanite
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Rosguill (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:28, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Balkanite (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_Europe#Contentious_topic_designation
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- September 26, 2023 adding unreferenced information to Bosniaks in Germany, misuse of minor edit
- September 14, 2023 adding unreferenced information to Hidroelektra workers massacre, misuse of minor edit
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- Warned for incivility at ANI February 2022 (arguably not relevant to this case)
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Balkans/EE DS notification February 2022
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Balkanite has had issues with providing proper sourcing dating back to when they first started editing (talk page warning w/ explanation from 2020). This has continued to the present day, with many examples including the creation of articles entirely comprising OR at Draft:Bosniaks in the United Kingdom (6 May 2023) and similar titles. Their misuse of minor edits has also been continuous since they started editing, and they received a talk page notice about it in February 2022. The edits that I've highlighted at the beginning of this report, are particularly egregious, however, as they not only fail to provide adequate (or really, any) sourcing, they show clear intent to emphasize a specific ethnonationalist perspective (and, in the case of Bosniaks in Germany, directly contradict seemingly well-referenced claims at Bosniaks regarding the history of Bosniak vs."Muslim" identification under the successive governments of Yugoslavia. Given the persistence of sourcing issues over multiple years, there is a case to be made for a regular site block (although there perhaps has not been enough escalating warnings for that); I think that the persistent failure to cite sources and clear POV bent mean that at a minimum a topic ban from Bosniak history and identity is needed. signed, Rosguill talk 19:28, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Balkanite
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Balkanite
I've been made aware of these accusations for a while.
Since then, I've always ensured to properly cite my contributions towards any article that I made the decision to create or edit. Also, noting that there has not been any progress in the making of such articles in the page, I simply wanted to fill in the gap that was not addressed towards anyone who may have been interested in the topic.
Also, the accusation that I'm attempting to "emphasize a specific ethnonationalist perspective" is perposterous, because it was evident at the time that there were zero recording of anyone in SFR Yugoslavia that identified as "Bosniaks" up until its dissolution. I'm beginning to be concerned that you're accusing me of propping up a nationalist perspective of an ethnic group that has recently became more prevalent since 1991, especially given the fact that I belong to said group, and preventing the addition of more information about them to fulfill WP:CITE and WP:NPOV, even though I have made it evident that I made sure to include the involvement of the ethnic group in various sides during World War I and II, and including information about the diaspora in other countries. You can see the same thing being done with other ethnic groups, however no action has been taken against them. I understand that your concerns may seem alarming as I have been misusing the "minor edit" button when it came to editing articles, but the reason being that misusage is that the majority of the contributions that I've made are actually minor, and do not entirely change more than half of the article that has been written.
I do suggest that you refrain from the idea of banning me from providing more information to Bosniak history and identity, as I'm one of the few that finds time to add more information about the people, and its diaspora. I have not seen you made ANY contribution to any of the articles you're accusing me of editing and contributing towards, and it's unfair to accuse someone of emphasize a specific ethnonationalist perspective, especially when I do not mean to spread information intended to incite or mislead, AND when it comes from someone who has done absolutely ZERO research on the various subjects that led to the creation/editing of said articles.
Wikipedia suffered a similar situation with the Croatian page back in 2013, as it suffered from a group of nationalists that wanted to smear Croatia's history to those that may have taken an interest in it by abusing the administrative powers that were given to them, and it became severe to the point where the Croatian government advised its citizens to not use Wikipedia as a source of information. Since then, there were countermeasures made to prevent such an incident from happening again. The reason why I'm named "Balkanite" in the first place is because of the fact that ethnic identity in the Balkans is based on the individual's perception of their origins, and given that it does not show any ethnic connotations other than what I've previously mentioned, I believe it shows exactly my stance on my perception of my own identity. Balkanite (talk) 01:45, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Balkanite
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I haven't read over all of this yet, but I'd point out the issues on the Croatian Wikipedia are entirely irrelevant to the matter at hand here. That doesn't give me a lot of confidence, but I'll have to do a more detailed review. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 02:55, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
- Edits like this, which was marked minor and added a large chunk of unsourced text certainly seem to demonstrate an issue with their editing. Something like a topic ban for 6 months and 500 edits might do to let them learn how better to source their edits and follow community norms. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:46, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
- Seems reasonable to me. Anyone else have another idea? The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 02:28, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
- I'm also happy to give that a go. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:29, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
- If there aren't any objections in the next day or so I'll implement that, if someone doesn't close it before me. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 16:29, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
F2Milk
F2Milk blocked (as a normal admin action) indefinitely for clear battleground attitude and not being here to build an encyclopedia. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:05, 1 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning F2Milk
Current Issue
Previous Issues
Discussion concerning F2MilkStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by F2MilkLet me put say it out aloud about the current state of Wikipedia. We have a lot of gatekeepers and editors who make editing seem a chore. I am not going to mince words here. I have been editing Wikipedia for the last 20 years or more. There have been editors who seem to have an ulterior motive in removing other editor's edits citing 101 rules. eg notability, reliable sources etc. I have faced my fair share of editors (so called left-leaning editors) who want to shape Wikipedia in their own image. Reliable sources to them is CNN, Washington Post, etc. I put in an edit from Daily Mail saying 100 people died in a Hurricane, and the edit is removed. What difference does it make if CNN says 100 people died in Hurricane or if Daily Mail says 100 people died in Hurricane? None at all. We live in a polarized world where gatekeepers try to paint all conservative websites as unreliable, but put their so-called bias references like CNN, Washington Post, etc as reliable. Post something negative even if it is factual about their golden boy or party. eg the Democrats, they try to scrub everything to paint themselves as angels. Now if you call out the editors such as this, they will cry victim (the story of the boy who cried wolf comes to mind) and waste resources saying the other editor has cast aspersions on them. Give me a break. If you want civility, you better be more respectful of other's contributions and don't give flimsy excuses in your summary when removing other people's edits, especially in the Current Events section. I am not going to change my upfront approach to these matters. I will continue to point out the hypocrisy that we are currently witnessing in Wikipedia today. F2Milk (talk) 17:44, 28 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by Darkfrog24Non-admin, never edited that page, never met either of these people before. I'm going to address only the accusation that F2Milk cast aspersions and made personal attacks.
Conclusion: Not all of these diffs show personal attacks, but if there is context showing that FM was referring to specific Wikieditors as "bad faith actors," then FM engaged in name-calling, which violates WP:CIVIL. Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:03, 29 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning F2Milk
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Closetside
Closetside given a logged warning regarding edit warring and 1RR. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 08:04, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Closetside
Editor was subject of a 1R complaint filed recently and still on this page as I write this, resolved without sanction. There is a content dispute about the material subject of the reversions which will be dealt with in the usual way. Editor was offered the opportunity to self revert but has not, instead producing an unhelpful and false response alleging that I have broken 1R instead.
Discussion concerning ClosetsideStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by ClosetsideFirst, clearly explained why Selfstudier is guilty of violating 1RR. Second, I mentioned Selfstudier's userspace harrasment towards me in my response without elaborating. Selfstudier made three false allegations that I violated the rules: (a) claiming that my self-reverts violated 3RR and claiming (b) one of my disambiguating edits expressed a POV and (c) I was hounding Selfstudier. Repeated false allegations about rule violations constitute userspace harrassment. Third, Selfstudier claimed that Diff 3 in my explanation was not a revert. WP:3RR clearly states: "An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes or manually reverses other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert. Violations of this rule often attract blocks of at least 24 hours." Other editors' actions include reverts. Therefore, both Diff 3 and Diff 5, which occured within 24 hours, prove that Selfstudier violated 3RR. Fourth, based on Longhornsg's clarification I may have misrepresented Longhornsg's position. However, I reverted before the clarification, so the potential misrepresentation of their view is irrelevant here. I reverted based on the information I had. Fifth, I would like to redouble on my concession that by executing Diff 6, I violated 1RR. However, Diff 6 restored the page to the version right before Selfstudier's illegal revert. Next time, I will confront the 1RR-breaking (or 3RR-breaking for most articles) editor, asking them to self-revert, instead of reverting myself. I have never experienced such a situation before. I would like to apologize to the Wikipedia community for my error. In contrast, Selfstudier is clearly aware of the standard case of 1RR, but violated it anyway. In conclusion, Selfstudier's violation is far worse than mine. I regret my violation and pledge not to repeat it in the future. Selfstudier shows no regret for his clear violation; they even deny it. Additionally, they harassed me in my userspace. I appeal to a neutral administrator for a just verdict.
Statement by Darkfrog24Okay, the two edits were made within 24 hours of each other, and they're on the same page, so yes this is a 1RR violation, but on a fundamental level this looks like two invested editors with different worldviews in a content dispute. Closetside broke a clearly posted rule, so Closetside should get the standard response, but the core problem could be solved by more active use of dispute resolution. The talk page goes back to January 2023, and I don't see any RfC requests or 3O on that talk page. I do see Closetside and Selfstudier initiating talk page discussions about keeping/removing questionable material. I know how much pressure a person can feel to not let a wrong/"wrong" version of the article stand, especially if they think the other party will take that as giving up or tacitly conceding on the facts. Can you two reach an agreement not to make those assumptions or pretend to have made them? Darkfrog24 (talk) 00:48, 29 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Closetside
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CapnJackSp
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning CapnJackSp
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Solblaze (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:18, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- CapnJackSp (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIP
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
CaptainJackSparrow refuses to drop the stick. Despite multiple warnings, he repeatedly uses WP:OR and prevaricates about the obvious meaning of quotes from WP:RS to justify the removal of the result on 2001–2002 India–Pakistan standoff, and attempts to WP:GASLIGHT me instead of engaging with me in good faith.
- 09:27, 3 September 2023 Removes result directly cited from Vipin Narang and Christopher Clary published in International Security, calls said material
contentious
andcertainly problematic
, as well as justifying Smahwk's (who has since not spoken) removal of this material on the basis of their personal assesment of the conflict (diff). - 12:18, 16 September 2023 Informed that the cited source is highly reliable, and scholarly content cannot be reverted based off the personal assessments of editors. Ghosts the talk page for weeks in response, but instantly returns when the result is restored with additional supporting citations, only to once again remove the result on the basis of their personal analysis of the conflict, claiming the result is out of context POV pushing (every citation provided for the result has used in-context quotes clearly referring to the failure of the Indian military's standoff with Pakistan - you can read them yourself).
- 19:35, 16 September 2023 After being provided multiple quotes from the previously cited academic literature (even of Indian analysts stating the conflict was a failure on India's part), CaptainJackSparrow again claims I am
presenting words out of context
. - 18:22, 21 September 2023 In the spirit of WP:AGF, I once again directly quoted the words of scholars and Indian analysts stating the standoff was a failure on India's part, and asked CJS what specifically he may have had trouble understanding. However, CaptainJackSparrow again resorted to responding with his personal analysis.
- 13:00, 23 September 2023 (UTC) Despite being warned countless times that his original research carries no weight in the face of scholarly literature, CaptainJackSparrow again declares based off nothing but his prevarication and personal analysis and that the conflict is not an Indian failure, going as far as to suggest his original research takes precedence over the words of scholars. For example, while Clary and Narang (quoted repeatedly) refer to the
the failure of the military standoff with Pakistan
- CaptainJackSparrow claimseven then, the "standoff" didnt fail
.
CaptainJackSparrow also claims that the multiple scholars being cited are stating a fringe minority viewpoint being given undue weight in the lead. CaptainJackSparrow has not cited a single source in this entire discussion, while I have cited to death. However, the version of the lead which CaptainJackSparrow is edit warring for cites one source - some Indian news anchor with the Indian military claiming the conflict showed how brave India was and therefore achieved "some" objectives. A single Indian news anchor's comments on a conflict with Pakistan do not outweigh the works of multiple scholars writing in reputed published journals years after the conflict ended. - 10:40, 26 September 2023 At this point, four citations (incl. three scholars, Indian analysts, and Indian media) have been cited as saying the standoff was an Indian failure. Captain Jack Sparrow calls this
obtruse reading of two sources to try and overrule the vast majority of sources
(what majority of sources? the single Indian news anchor?) and declares he will keep removing the result. It is pertinent to note Captain Jack Sparrow has cited nothing but his WP:OR and prevarication ad nauseam so far.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
No sanctions issued, but warning issued - see below.
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
User has posted template on their talk page in early 2022.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
User previously warned for behaviour on ARE and given very short piece of WP:ROPE
by @Dennis Brown:. Asked to discuss more, in good faith
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- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning User:CapnJackSp
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by User:CapnJackSp
While I may be held guilty of not investing too much time in the discussion cited, the string of allegations are widely inaccurate. When making the reverts, I saw someone using one source to justify writing the result of an India - Pakistan confrontation as being the "failure" of someone, as is frequently done by by vandals and new accounts with a POV to push - Which was the reason for my actions and arguments, which admittedly, could be framed better. I will do so below.
Detailed explanation of the disagreement and the issues with sourcing of the material introduced by OP
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The op in their edit introduced a new change to the article, changing the longstanding version, which stated Status quo ante bellum
to instead say Indian failure
They also introduced one line in the lead to repeat the claim that the standoff was an "Indian failure". Since then, they have edit warred to try and reintroduce this content, making 7 separate reverts to introduce this material despite knowing they were contentious. They have described themselves as using "four citations" to prove their point. However, the only actual citations that are somewhat usable are both authored or co-authored by the same analyst. The other two citations in fact do not support their claim - The OP has conflated a mobilisation operation with the standoff itself. They claim that the current version is supported only by the version as told by one Indian news media source. Yet the fact that the standoff ended without Nuclear war, and did not escalate into war, is not a controversial statement. If necessary, it can easily be supplanted by more citations, though the OP has not made such a request. Interestingly, this is not the first time the OP has made controversial change to the lead and been reverted by me on this page - The OP had previously removed a mention of the loss of territory by Pakistan towards the end of the standoff, where the Indian army captured a strategic point. While the OP cited MOS, their succeeding series of edits make the assumption of good faith much more difficult. I also hope that OP understands Watchlists and how they might be reviewed occasionally, since they seem quite aggrieved that I missed a message where I was not tagged but noticed a bunch of edits on the page days later. Despite complaining about a slow rate of response, the OP did not tag me during the time they purport that I "ghosted" them. Regardless, the delay was regretted and was apologised for immediately upon noticing; It is unexpected to see that being used as a sign of misbehaviour here. OP in this complaint and in the discussion the preceded it has also ignored the concept of WP:VERIFIABLE vs WP:DUE - Just because one analyst supports their position does not mean their perspective deserves to dictate the result. Indeed, the infobox skims over several aspects (for example, the loss of territory by Pakistan) that are supported by much more than one analyst. |
In essence, this is at best a content dispute that the OP has presented here. The OP has not even justified their claims against me - The claims regarding WP:GASLIGHT and WP:CIR do not match up to even their summary of events, let alone an unbiased reading of the situation. Indeed, the OP has continued to introduce material that has already been challenged, for which they know there is no consensus, and is changing longstanding material in the lead - This is not the mark of an editor interested in collaborative editing. The editor made no attempt at resolving the impasses through third opinion or RFC, instead attempting to brute force their preferred version through repeated reverts. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 21:25, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Callanecc I would be open to addressing the concerns of the OP through discussion. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 08:32, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
- Since the OP keeps dragging up the year and a half old ARE, I find it pertinent to bring to notice that the concerns were in particular with my misunderstanding of WP:CLOP at the time, something which has long since been remedied. Indeed, the point that I had been arguing (too harshly, as noted in the close), regarding maintaining strict attribution instead of stating accusations against WP:BLP subjects in wikivoice, turned out to be well founded as the news organisation withdrew those articles and allegations later on after being found to be untrue and fabricated by an employee of the news organisation. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 11:53, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by TrangaBellam
This doesn't look good to me - I agree with literally everything said by the OP. And, not the first time that I have seen CJS engage in an idiosyncratic reading of sources that would have smacked of trolling if not for their usual competence in most areas. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:03, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Googlegy007
I dont have much to contribute here, I agree with the OP. Recently I recieved this comment from CJS which struck me as offposting, I proceeded to check their contribs which, while nothing immediately jumped out as a policy violation, also felt off. Googleguy007 (talk) 12:46, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by DSP2092
Solblaze (talk · contribs) has accused CapnJackSp of violating Wikipedia policies, including WP:OR (original research), WP:GASLIGHT (gaslighting), and WP:AGF (assume good faith), and seeks enforcement of WP:ARBIP sanctions.
Solblaze claims that CapnJackSp has been engaging in disruptive behavior by repeatedly removing content from the article that describes the standoff as an "Indian failure." They argue that CapnJackSp's removal of this content is not supported by reliable sources and that he has instead relied on his personal analysis, which violates WP:OR. I find Solblaze this edit problamatic here, he explained the reason for changes in the summary as 'trim lead to <4 paragraphs per MOS. Solblaze asserts that CapnJackSp has not adequately supported content regarding the "Indian failure" in the article. Solblaze should provide sufficient evidence or reliable sources to justify the Indian failure and appears that the burden of evidence lies with Solblaze to justify the inclusion of this specific content, especially if it's considered contentious.
CapnJackSp (talk · contribs) claims that the changes made by Solblaze were contentious and introduced a new perspective into the article without sufficient consensus. CapnJackSp claims that the sources provided by Solblaze do not unequivocally support the claim that the standoff was an "Indian failure." He also asserts that Solblaze has failed to justify their changes according to WP:DUE (due weight) and WP:VERIFIABLE policies.
Based on the arguments, this appears to be a content dispute rather than a clear-cut case of policy violations. The issue revolves around the interpretation of sources and the inclusion of specific content in the article. It is recommended that the involved parties seek consensus on the T/P or consider dispute resolution mechanisms, such as a request for comments (RFC), to address the dispute. DSP2092talk 05:21, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Solblaze
@Callanecc: I've tried my best to engage in good faith with CJS for the last month. But it's like talking to a wall. I can quote scholarly sources ad nauseam only for CJS to ignore it all and respond with WP:OR and prevaricate in a manner that seems like borderline trolling.
I have not violated the 1RR restrictions on the article, and I am welcome to other uninvolved editors' input on the matter (@TrangaBellam:, @Googleguy007: and @DSP2092: included). I will also start an RFC.
I reiterate that my concern does not stem from a mere difference in points of view held by CJS, but rather from CJS's prevaricatory behaviour and defiance of WP:RS.
CJS's conduct has not only been noted by myself but also been condemned by others within the community including a closing admin on ARE. Solblaze (talk) 09:02, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Abhishek
The edits by Solblaze clearly violates MOS:MIL (especially this and it was unwise for him to edit war over this thing without gaining consensus in the first place.
That's all I have to say. Since "MOS:MIL" was not mentioned on the whole talk page,[33] I recommend no sanctions for any parties here. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 11:39, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Result concerning User:CapnJackSp
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- This seems very much like a content dispute that needs to be resolved with dispute resolution rather than edit warring. I am hopeful that both of you will be able to move forward with discussion rather than needing have sanctions applied related to the edit warring which would likely be 1RR at this point. @Solblaze and CapnJackSp: Can you both commit to doing that? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:45, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Nhradek
Normal indef admin block as NOTHERE. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:55, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Nhradek
Discussion concerning NhradekStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by NhradekRead what we said in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Precognition. He can argue that I'm violating Wikipedia:Psci but they are violating WP:Neutral point of view in Precognition. Precognition is not WP:PSCI. Multiple studies and meta-analyses have shown this. Here's a link to the meta-analysis by Bem and Tressoldi, et al. disputing the claims of WP:PSCI. If I'm violating WP:PSCI then certainly they are violating WP:NPOV by not including the meta-analysis. I tried to include it but was reverted in this diff with the response " Daryl Bem is a hack" by @Hob Gadling. How does this not violate the core principle of WP:NPOV? I hit a nerve with the "skeptics" on this community but WP is not a posting board for their idealogical agenda. It's an online encyclopedia. Might I have violated WP:PSCI? Maybe, but they sure violated WP:NPOV and haven't given Daryl Bem a fair article in Precognition. In addition in Wikipedia:FRINGE/QS it clearly states an article should not be labeled WP:PSCI if reasonable debate still exists in the scientific community which it does. I quote from WP:FRINGE/QS Articles about hypotheses that have a substantial following but which critics describe as pseudoscience, may note those critics' views; however, such hypotheses should not be described as unambiguously pseudoscientific if a reasonable amount of academic debate still exists. How does the meta-analysis I included violate this? How did I violate WP:PSCI if there are meta-analyses and many studies providing evidence for precognition in the parapsychological literature? I don't wish to argue too much about violations in the Precognition article here, but how does the following statement in the article not violate WP:NPOV and WP:No_reliable_sources,_no_verifiability,_no_article? Despite the lack of scientific evidence, many people believe it to be real; it is still widely reported and remains a topic of research and discussion within the parapsychology community. It's like that everywhere and almost no supporting evidence for Bem or Tressoldi's research. There is scientific evidence in support of precognition including the analysis I cited earlier and in Talk. Claims that my edits and the topic of Precognition in general are WP:PSCI are nonsense and my citation of Bem and Tressoldi's meta-analysis should be included. Nhradek (talk) 23:13, 29 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by Darkfrog24I don't know either party and have never edited the pages in question. Given the diffs offered, the problem isn't that Nhradek refuses to respect Wikipedia's rules about pseudoscience. It's that Nhradek does not accept that precognition is pseudoscience. (It is; DGMW, Nhardek is wrong about this.) I noticed something else: All of the diffs offered here are talk page statements. Nhradek is saying on article and Wikipedia talk pages that they think precognition isn't pseudoscience. Yes, it's a bit strange, but it's not a problem the way, say, adding unsourced or improperly sourced material to Wikipedia articles about precognition would be a problem. This boils down to "Someone on the talk page has an annoying cherished belief." Nhradek, can you promise that you won't add anything to the articles if you can't find support for it in the types of sources that Wikipedia respects (just like everyone else has to)? Can you promise that you if you remove text from an article and others put it back, you'll use established dispute resolution processes (WP:3O, WP:RFC)? Also, I'd recommend that when you talk to any given individual person on that talk page, remember what you already said to them and whether or not that specific person found it unconvincing. During the Trump administration, we got a lot more information about how to change people's minds and why they believe what they believe, and it turns out that "show the same people the same evidence and arguments over and over" doesn't work. Darkfrog24 (talk) 16:29, 30 September 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Nhradek
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