User talk:JezGrove

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Alfie

Hi . I reverted your edits cited to Private Eye primarily due to wp:FRINGE by the way - if you see comments on that published in a bunch of other, also reliable, sources - feel free to add back in! I'm going to reword some of the stuff you've added about the book also to make it sound more like a review than a random selection of observations. Cheers, Nikthestunned 10:19, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for doing the Let Toys Be Toys page - been meaning to get around to that for ages! Tricia (one of LTBT)

Electricia (talk) 12:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

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DYK for Fritchley Tunnel

— Coffee // have a cup // beans // 12:02, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

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DYK for Nothophantes horridus

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Blanked pages

Hi JezGrove - I'm sorry for the unauthorized editing yesterday. I really have little idea how to use this site. However the additional information you have added to Brian Anderson (boxer) is biased and without context. I don't know if it is your intention to be misleading but I just wanted to add some balance to the biography because I'm hoping that is the point of Wikipedia. I don't know if I have breached some convention as I am the subject of the page but if you are interested in writing a factual biography I would be more than happy to speak with you!Banderson1961 (talk) 03:55, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Kind Regards Brian

Dear JezGrove - I made you a genuine offer to discus your contribution to the bio Brian Anderson (boxer) I have also contacted to other Wiki. editors both of whom have responded. Yesterday when I was editing your contributions to the bio your responses were immediate. It is of significant note that I have not received any response from you although I acknowledge that you might be simply taking the day off!

Regards Brian Banderson1961 (talk) 08:30, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Dear Banderson1961, Sorry for the slow response, I was just about to post my response (below) when I saw your second message come in.

Thanks for your message. It certainly wasn’t my "intention to be misleading” (on Wikipedia, it is always best to start from the assumption that edits to an article are made in good faith). Some of the detail I added, for example, includes the quote from the BBC report ("I can say without a shadow of a doubt that boxing is responsible for me being here now. However, I was lucky, I joined a youth club where they had a boxing gym and I got involved in boxing. Instantly I found that it was something I could do, and do very well. It is quite ironic really, because when I was young people used to say 'you're going to end up in prison'. I don't think this is quite what they had in mind”) and also the ones from The Independent (“The then chief inspector of prisons, Sir David Ramsbottom, seemed to like what we were doing. I told him I had always wanted to be some kind of social reformer and it was he who suggested that I should aim to become a prison governor. I found there was a graduate scheme and managed to get on it - the first black candidate to do so, in September 1997” and “When I went to Doncaster as a probation officer, I always remember at one point there were six inmates that I used to knock around with. There were a couple of them whose parents used to say 'don't mix with that Anderson because you'll get yourself into trouble'. It was ironic, there we were, all in prison together, but of course I was the one with the set of keys. I just think that in life I made better decisions than the people who are inside. I could quite easily not have done. God knows what I would have done if I hadn't found boxing.”) I was also careful to point out that a report into one of the deaths in custody at Doncaster which found that the Segregation Observation Log had been falsified by a prison custody officer (PCO) on the night of a death had also noted that “In the event, the PCO’s actual checks were better than those recorded in the log”. So I feel it would be unfair to suggest that my edits were intended to deliberately portray you and events that occurred under your leadership in a bad light.

I was about to add that with regard to the parts of the article that you think need more context to balance them, that you should set out your concerns on the article’s talk page so that they can be considered. I see that you have already been advised to do so now.

Best wishes,JezGrove (talk) 08:39, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Dear jezGrove Thank you for your response and for some of the contribution you have made to my bio I have no concern regarding the additions you have made to my boxing career. My problem is the biased nature of what you have said about my time at Doncaster and Ashfield. You will have read the reference material and be well aware that a balance could easily have been made but you choose only to use the negative statements. The information is without context and extremely misleading. If you had wanted to make the bio more balanced you could have done so with the material you already had. So I accept that you intentionally drafted a biased bio; I would like to understand why. I will make representations on the bio talk page but I am reasonably certain that you don't need me to direct you!

Regards Brian

Banderson1961 (talk) 08:57, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi JezGrove - Sorry but I wanted to give you an example of lack of context. For instance why do you not state when I started working at HMP Doncaster? did you know that I was only there for a few weeks when the death occurred so whilst you are correct regarding it happening on my watch the subsequent referral to the wider culture of falsifying documentation doesn't relate to my time in charge. This is not obvious because of the omission.

Brian

Banderson1961 (talk) 09:07, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Dear Banderson1961,

I haven’t made ANY edits to the section on your boxing career other than creating the subheading and adding some missing reference details to the citation of a BBC report that was already there.

Just so that we are absolutely clear about this I have no connection – however indirectly - with you, the prison service, or any of the institutions or their inmates. There is simply no reason at all that I would wish to create “a biased bio”. I’m by no means the most experienced Wikipedia editor, but I have made numerous edits on all sorts of articles and have never been accused of bias before.

I didn’t add any of the news sources cited in the part of the article relating to your appointment as Governor of HMP Doncaster although I did add use them to add some additional information to the page. I’ve just looked back at them, and none of them specify the date when you commenced in the post and I wasn’t aware of the short time you say elapsed between that date and the death in custody there. If my inclusion of that event in the article gives a misleading impression – and I can see that it could well do, in light of what you say – then it was an honest oversight on my part. Despite what you seem to think, I have no hidden agenda. Please try to assume good faith.

The best way forward is for you to give specific examples on the article’s own Talk page of sentences in the article that you feel are incorrect / unbalanced together with any further information that you believe should be included in them. I am sorry if you feel that my edits have been unbalanced, but I’m sure that all of the issues can be addressed and resolved amicably.

Best wishes, JezGrove (talk) 10:44, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for reply I think I would like to draw a line under this for now. I never intended for an argument to develop but my emotions are challenging my reasoning at the moment. I am out of my depth with this!

Best wishes

Brian Bganderson1961 (talk) 00:48, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Warnings to Users

I noticed that you gave 82.34.248.179 a warning level 3, without any prior warnings. You should start with a level 1 or 2 and explain the situation to the user rather than simply "tacking on" a warning. --JustBerry (talk) 21:08, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi JustBerry Apologies if I made a mistake - the edits seemed to be deliberately abusive so I used a higher level warning. Thanks for your advice. Best wishes JezGrove (talk) 21:27, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Absolutely, not a problem. Just wanted to give you a heads up for the future; I just happened to notice. See you around; happy editing. --JustBerry (talk) 21:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks - you too, JustBerry JezGrove (talk) 21:36, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

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Reference errors on 11 November

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"men are the same as women"?

Did you really intend to revert to that text? [2] I mean, the source does say "women tended to adopt a more democratic or participative style and a less autocratic or directive style than did men", so if you want to change "authoritative" to "autocratic", I'll be fine with that, but "men are the same as women" is false in so many ways. Also you may have taken into account that I was reverting a clear vandal. --GRuban (talk) 22:13, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi GRubanYou are right of course - I've reverted my edit, sincere apologies. I hadn't spotted the 21 November vandalism you were undoing and acted too hastily. (Unfortunately that page seems to bring out the worst in some people, and I misread your intentions - sorry.) JezGrove (talk) 23:12, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Have you considered joining the Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias/Gender gap task force? If you're interested in the Sexism in the technology industry page, the GGTF would seem to be a good fit. And don't worry - we thoroughly believe "men are the same as women". Cough, cough, cough. :-) --GRuban (talk) 16:11, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks GRuban - I'll take a look later and see if there's anything I feel I can contribute to. Best wishes. JezGrove (talk) 17:01, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

"LOOK LISTEN & TAKE HEED." Martinevans123 (talk) 00:38, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

An oven-ready kitten Char siu barnstar for you!

	The Worst 2nd Worst Pun of 2015 Barnstar
	Chairman's Award: Congratulations on your truly squalid and painfully contrived effort!! "Worker Pussies Unite"!! User:Martinevans123 (talk) 23:30, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Martin! My very first barnstar (sigh) - but unlike a fussy cat confronted with an unfamiliar brand of tuna-in-jelly I'm not going to turn my nose up at it! Indeed, at this late stage of 2015, it can only be a compliment so it will encourage me to re-double my efforts towards the reinstatement of Claws Four. (I know, I should quit when I'm ahead...) JezGrove (talk) 23:41, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Sidney and Beatrice would be proud of you, my son.... *sob". Martinevans123 (talk) 23:51, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

By a truly bizarre coincidence involving my love life, my wife is the Centre Manager for the LSE's CATS centre. You really couldn't make it up! JezGrove (talk) 00:00, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Jez, you lucky guy. She looks lovely! And so lucky to be involved in Economics. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:26, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Martin - she is, though I'm not sure what I did to deserve her! You'll have to tell me who the worthy winner of the Worse (sic?!) Pun of 2015 Barnstar is, as I don't think Lyn will believe me if I tell her there's a more excruciating punster out there without showing her the evidence! Her colleagues at CATS are more involved with chaos than economics - I dare say if their expertise rubs off on her it will come in handy at home... JezGrove (talk) 17:06, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

I would beg to direct my Right Honourable colleague, the Member for Chaos Central, to this diff. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:37, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

I would doff my hat to my Right Honourable colleague’s thieving scouser friend – but collapsible top hats haven’t been kept in the Chamber since 1998, and I shun the use of unparliamentary language. (But seriously, a very deserving winner!) JezGrove (talk) 18:22, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

I think it's lovely that your Doris has got her little job with the CATS. Although, as we both know, "a woman’s best place is in the kitchen and on her back." Martinevans123 (talk) 18:43, 8 December 2015 (UTC) ... although how she's meant to do the beans on toast and the washing up while on her back, I really don't know.

Yes, the Beeb needs to spell out more clearly exactly what type of personality it is that the award is for! BTW, even though CATS is only supposed to take up half of Lyn’s working hours, she can’t escape felines entirely: she was wearing her Research Ethics hat when she blocked my latest scientific experiment. But I strongly suspect that the friend who suggested it to me won’t take any notice of such niceties when he spends Christmas with us (and the unsuspecting cat) in a couple of weeks! JezGrove (talk) 19:11, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Is that like a computer boffin but with less probing?? (ooh, err, missus). I think I must know your cat-scaring friend - a big friend of the Bee Gees, I believe. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:25, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

You're right, but sadly his US tour has just been cancelled...! Still, he knows better than us what a Wild World it is, I suppose. JezGrove (talk) 19:37, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

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London Spy

Hi Jez, please can you add a summary for Episode 5? Crookesmoor (talk) 09:52, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Crookesmoor, I'm flattered to be asked! I'll try to get one sorted this afternoon. Best wishes, JezGrove (talk) 09:56, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Jez.... if you really are telling the truth we promise to ship you to America, to start a new life, in an air-tight box. But if not, I'm really not sure what might happen. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:22, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Hmmm, not sure my training with Houdini will help - if only I'd taken lessons from someone better at wriggling out of anything. JezGrove (talk) 10:48, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

What??? We're not even going to hint as to why and how Alex died? The whole plot axis? Crumbs, how mysterious. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:51, 11 December 2015 (UTC) p.s. who was Joe??

I didn't precis Episode 4 (yet...) in which Alex/Alistair's bizarre truth-detecting algorithm (knocked up in record time, apparently) is revealed. I'm not a big fan of spoilers personally (though I know WP policy allows them - a rather big issue at Mr Robot, I see). But it's the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, so you can add the missing details if you want! (And I usually add in the edit summaries that my synopses are iffy and that improvements are very welcome!) JezGrove (talk) 00:43, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

A Dobos torte for you!

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7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:12, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks very much, 7&6=thirteen - I'm not sure what I've done to deserve the delicious torte though...! JezGrove (talk) 13:27, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Thomas Gould (violinist)

A gentle suggestion. It is wonderful that you created this article. It would be good to create links to it, lest you 'hide your light under a bushel.' Otherwise, nobody will find it, or at least it will be difficult for them to do so. A lot of great content gets buried amidst 5 million articles. Cheers! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi, again 7&6=thirteen. I had a few 'real world' things to sort out first, but I see you've added some links to the page now - very many thanks! JezGrove (talk) 14:36, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Thomas Gould (violinist)

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Nadolig Llawen

Martinevans123^{Santas Grotto} ... sends you warmest wishes for a:

"Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda"

---

May the true spirit of Christmas bless you with warmth and peace! ... And "Mele Kalikimaka" (Hawaiian Merry Christmas)!!

Thanks Martin! Have a very merry Christmas yourself – regardless of whether you’ve been naughty or nice... Nos da! JezGrove (talk) 23:07, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Hoorah! Anyone for some jelly and melted ice cream? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:13, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Bert Camembert sends Christmas wishes from Planet Gong.... [1]

I'm afraid I don't have a sweet tooth and the elves here are busy... (They've not been paying enough attention to the naughty list either, apparently...) JezGrove (talk) 23:22, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

I’ve always associated eggs with another Christian celebration…. Back to the (all too!) imminent one, God only knows how the rest of you are going to get any presents – this lot are busy just bringing ours! But then we have been on our best behaviour! JezGrove (talk) 23:38, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Ah yeah, those Spanish Santas are always "dead busy" this time of year. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:45, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

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Lech Wałęsa

Thank you very much for your wonderful copy-editing work on this article. Daniel (talk) 20:58, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks, Daniel! JezGrove (talk) 21:06, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

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Happy Easter, Jezza.

	Some Easter Lead Belly for you!
	"Pasg Hapus! ... Happy Easter to you!" Martinevans123 (talk) 10:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)|}

Thanks Martin! Hope your Eater is better than this one. JezGrove (talk) 10:51, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, apparently it's nose-to-tail with Bank Holiday traffic. Did someone mention Tom Thumb? I didn't know a 1970s small cigar could be so much fun. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:13, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Trust you are looking forward today to that annual sporting tradition.Martinevans123 (talk) 13:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

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Colin Gregg

Re Colin Gregg, I noticed while I was doing a quick Google search while patrolling New pages that he was nominated for a BAFTA for To The Lighthouse in 1984, There's a mention on the BAFTA site here and here's a book reference [3] I just found. But I was in a hurry, so there are probably more out there. FlowerpotmaN·(t) 01:03, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, FlowerpotmaN - I'll try and take a look and update the article later. Best wishes! JezGrove (talk) 08:03, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

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Cinq Dollars de Spock?

That Leonard Nimoy was really on the money, wasn't he. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:57, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Martin! What an enterprising use of funny money! JezGrove (talk) 22:59, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

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DYK

On 17 December 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Sheku Kanneh-Mason, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Sheku Kanneh-Mason. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Sheku Kanneh-Mason), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 14:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Oi! Jezza, me ol' china ...

Martinevans123 ^{(Santa's Drop-in Centre)} ... sends you ...

... warmest seasonal wishes for ...
Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda.

---

Hoping that Christmas may bless you with peace, love and understanding... and wishing that you may find your true star...

Thanks, Martin - Merry Christmas, Baby! Best, JezGrove (talk) 22:26, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm, nice. And the original, from his 2001 ... A Christmas Celebration of Hope: [4] Martinevans123 (talk) 22:34, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Helen Bailey

Can you keep an eye on how the trial goes? I'll be away for a week or so. Cheers, Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:24, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Shall do! Best wishes JezGrove (talk) 15:19, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Not planning another holiday cleaning septic tanks in Royston, I hope, Guy. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:37, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

A sleepy little town - and now we know why (allegedly....) JezGrove (talk) 16:43, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Actually, Royston is getting a bit too exciting these days. JezGrove (talk) 11:17, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Astonishing (alas, not in a good way)

I wonder if you have seen this? That's just incredible. I must admit I'm fresh out of weak puns and tangential links. A bit disgusted actually. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:41, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Yup, I thanked him for his edit and am about to reply on his talk page – the Mail appears to be intent on establishing its gutter press credentials, and if Dacre authorised the doorstepping then he's a 'double you-know-what', as well as a hypocritical slipper farmer! JezGrove (talk) 22:59, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Do you think any Admin action is needed. Perhaps one of the RfC closing admins? There's a current thread open at User talk:Jimbo Wales about the whole thing, but Mr Wales himself has not made any comment, so far. It's obvious that "the press" have just singled Hillbilly out as a scapegoat as he's the one who dared to open the RfC and have his name at the top. Seems just a trifle unfair. People might start to think their identities were not safe. Maybe the Mums of all the others who !voted will getting a knock on the door? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:07, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

With my own humble edit count, I've no idea about how the Admin stuff on WP works. Exposure, via the 'responsible' media, of the Mail's intimidating tactics would be the way I'd go - together with any official complaint likely to have an effect. If Jimbo and the Foundation can put that in train, then so much the better! JezGrove (talk) 23:24, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

As an afterthought, I'd also try to get the police to move the doorsteppers on - from my own experience (don't ask!) the law on 'obstruction' seems to prevent anyone from staying on a public footpath once they have been asked to 'move on' by a member of the police, and no argument that you are standing in a public place appears to prevail! JezGrove (talk) 23:42, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

For what it's worth I've now emailed the Guardian journalist who reported on WP's decision about the Mail's reliability JezGrove (talk) 00:25, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Recycled Orchestra of Cateura

On 22 February 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Recycled Orchestra of Cateura, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that children playing instruments made from scrap have recorded with Basement Jaxx and performed with Megadeth? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Recycled Orchestra of Cateura. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Recycled Orchestra of Cateura), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Coffee // have a cup // beans // 12:03, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Oh no!!

First Eric... and now Mark. Where will it all end for the man down the pub?? I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:04, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Pasg Hapus

	Some Easter Gwyn Hughes Jones for you
	"Pasg Hapus! ... Happy Easter to you" ... y geiriau. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:19, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Jez... you will forever be... "In the wardrobe of my soul, In the section labeled shirts". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:02, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Hollie McNish

Hi, looking at the edit log I think we both were editing at the same time, I had no intent to revert any of your edits which all look great and well-referenced. I have just included back one very minor edit to the infobox. All the best and happy editing Mountain^cirque 14:58, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:Mountaincirque, not a problem at all. And thanks for the page move from 'Hollie Poetry' - I had just been about to suggest that on the talk page when I saw that you had done it already! Best, JezGrove (talk) 15:24, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (JURIES (advocacy campaign)) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating JURIES (advocacy campaign), JezGrove!

Wikipedia editor Hydronium Hydroxide just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

I have merged the content to Jill Saward, as the organisation does not appear to have sufficient individual notability, ref WP:NORG

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Private Eye

Hi, just to let you know that your "remove puffery" edit at Murdoch MacLennan back in June is mentioned on page 7 of the latest issue of Private Eye (though it doesn't say your user name). JezGrove (talk) 11:27, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Ha, finally made it into the Eye after all these years, and not Pseuds' Corner either, by the sounds of it! Thanks for letting me know. :) Barnabypage (talk) 18:58, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Rory McGrath

Clearly we still need to keep that page under review - we both missed the last round of unconstructive edits. Do we need to go for a longer period of protection? Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:20, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Ghmyrtle, I've been away this weekend and missed them but I'm home and back online now, so I'll keep an eye out. Best wishes, Jez JezGrove (talk) 18:36, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Living with the Gods

Dear JezGrove, many thanks for tidying up my information about how MacGregor has presented a series called "Living with The Gods" in the article on Neil MacGregor. Vorbee (talk) 09:57, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi Vorbee - thanks for taking the time to say thanks! Best wishes JezGrove (talk) 23:55, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

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Jamal Khashoggi

Please take the time to read the refs before you put "Added 'citation needed' tag" : https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/death-of-a-dissident-saudi-arabia-and-the-rise-of-the-mobster-state - now we have five (!) footnotes to one (!) ref.--87.170.192.239 (talk) 13:21, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Could/ should that entire paragraph be supported by that one source, given once at the end? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:33, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi 87.170.192.239, given the controversy surrounding Khashoggi I felt all of the facts needed nailing down - better that a source is reused within a paragraph so the claims it supports are all clearly verified than that the reader is uncertain about the reliability of a sentence. I don't think most readers of WP would read an entire source to check whether it supports earlier sentences in the paragraph. JezGrove (talk) 14:32, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

I see that WP:CS says this: The citation should be added close to the material it supports, offering text–source integrity. If a word or phrase is particularly contentious, an inline citation may be added next to that word or phrase within the sentence, but it is usually sufficient to add the citation to the end of the clause, sentence, or paragraph, so long as it's clear which source supports which part of the text. If that's any help at all Martinevans123 (talk) 14:37, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Yep, quite the common sense, thanks @Martinevans123: I had the same problem with "he is the nephew of Adnan Khashoggi" and "grandfather Khashoggi was from a family of Ottoman origin". Lazy folks don't read the footnotes and just "Added 'citation needed' tag". Is it the new game now or what? Would you please do me a favor and read that The Spectator article and clarify Jamal Khashoggi's stand point on "democracy"? Alas now we have seven (!) footnotes to that (!) ref. Maybe we should let it so. The readers/user are amazed at the statements from John R. Bradley. --87.170.204.252 (talk) 15:25, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Martin, apologies if I’m being even more stupid than usual (a rare feat!), but despite your link to WP:CS and the quote "[…] so long as it's clear which source supports which part of the text" I'm still not clear about whether/why you think my 'citation needed' tags were OTT or not?

At the time, the paragraph began by clearly attributing the source: "According to The Spectator, … " and the full stop of this opening sentence was followed by the ref, which to my mind signalled the end of the reliance on it. The next two sentences made apparently unrelated claims ("Khashoggi became de facto leader of the Saudi branch of the Muslim Brotherhood" and "Crown Prince Mohammed not only rejects Wahhabism, he considers the Muslim Brotherhood the main threat to his vision for the kingdom") and were unreferenced. Then the fourth sentence began, "In 2018 Khashoggi established a new political party…", which was again followed by the same Spectator ref. (See diff [here], I've removed unnecessary links in the quoted extracts above.)

Given the contentious nature of the Khashoggi article and the fact that that there was no indication from the wording that the same source was continuing to be relied on, was it really unreasonable to assume that the two sentences sandwiched between the uses of the ref needed citations? If you think so, I am, of course, happy to apologise to the anon IP editor. However, if we really believe that the causal WP reader is going to read an entire source in order to see what sentences in a WP paragraph it does or doesn't support then I suspect we have another think coming. And if we expect them to take unreferenced claims on trust because they're sandwiched between sourced ones, then that's a whole other problem. Best wishes, Jez JezGrove (talk) 00:35, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

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Gustave Courbet

Hi JezGrove, Why do you undo my contributions to the Gustave Courbet page? Are you the owner of that page? The discovery, published last September, of Constance Quéniaux being the model for the painting "L'Origine du monde" deserves to be mentioned, I think. See the Wiki page on her name. Best regards, Piet PvLHtn (talk) 13:12, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Piet, the editor who undid your contribution was Coldcreation. As far as I can see, his edit summary was self-explanatory. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:22, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi PvLHtn. As far as I can tell you reverted my edits without explaining why, so I'm not exactly sure why you are here accusing me of attempting to "own" the Gustave Courbet article! If my edits were mistaken, then an initial assumption of WP:GOODFAITH would have been a nice starting place. Of course, just like everyone else you are free to edit that article - or any other - but your efforts will be better served if you provide edit summaries and include references from reliable sources when doing so. Best wishes, JezGrove (talk) 00:21, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

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Fine Wine

Not sure if you caught it, but Paul's offering in last night's Gyles Brandreth Show was worth the license fee on it's own, I thought. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:37, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Martin, I did - excellent! And the continued sharpness of Nicholas Parsons is always very impressive. JezGrove (talk) 20:05, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Even speaking as one who occasionally, in the 70s, endured an entire episode of Sale of the Century, more in disbelief than anything else, thinking it was perhaps a secret spoof of a certain Monty Python sketch, I must admit that Sir Nicolas is a true national treasure. Just a Minute is just timeless, never predictable and seems to just get better and better, in a very gentle way. Instant Sale 123 (talk) 20:37, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

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Big ones! Wet ones!! Big wet ones!!! [5] Martinevans123 (talk) 23:17, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi Martin - not sure I got the sockpuppet reference? It's very hard to pick a best Frank Zappa guitar solo. Of course, Dweezil went with Watermelon in Easter Hay. But there are so many to choose from. Best wishes, JezGrove (talk) 23:45, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. It was a reference to the invigorating and refreshing cold water of SPI. Apologies. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:49, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Nadolig Llawen

Martinevans123 ^{(Santa's Oven-Ready Brexit Centre)} ... sends you ...

... warmest seasonal wishes for ...Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda.

---

Hoping that Christmas may bless you with peace, love and a Cuban groove... and wishing that you may find a little traditional fun ...

Many thanks Martin - best wishes for a wonderful Christmas! JezGrove (talk) 17:35, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Editor of the Week

		Editor of the Week
		Your ongoing efforts to improve the encyclopedia have not gone unnoticed: You have been selected as Editor of the Week in recognition of your quality of contributions. Thank you for the great endeavors! (courtesy of the Wikipedia Editor Retention Project)

User:Clovermoss submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:

I nominate JezGrove for the Editor of the Week Award. JezGrove has made over 10,000 edits, but it is the quality of their contributions that shines through, not just the numerical value itself. More than 4,800 of their edits are over 1,000 bytes, and their contributions to mainspace are absolutely phenomenal. They have created 35 articles, some of my personal favourites of articles they've worked on being Let Toys Be Toys, Women of the Year Lunch and Emma Sophia Galton. JezGrove has also made substantial contributions that improve the quality of pre-xisting articles, including articles like Buglife, Life in Squares, and The Lego Group. What I have chosen reflects just a handful of their vast contributions to the encyclopedia. Their work is amazing, and I believe that they should be recognized through the Editor of the Week Award.

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:

{{User:UBX/EoTWBox}}

Thanks again for your efforts! ―Buster7 ☎ 14:16, 19 April 2020 (UTC)