User talk:PericlesofAthens

This user is one of the 4000 most active English Wikipedians of all time.

• 
  Battle of Normandy, June of '44, quite possibly my favorite pic on Wiki.
• 
  Animated naval gun turret, this pic has to be my favorite animated illustration on wiki.
• 
  Pangea breaking up into the continents we know today. Amazing.

Hey guys, and welcome to my user talk page. Feel free to ask anything on your mind, or any general help with articles. If you would like to look over old talk page discussions, simply view the archive links in the box to the top right. -->

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If you are looking for my minor edits and DYK page, click here.

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Disambiguation link notification for December 8

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Death of Cleopatra

I would like to say, damn that was fun to review, and you were very good humored and it was impressive that you took it all in your stride, even though myself and Mrmuddle were raining down like a tonne of bricks, murmuring and griping about this, that and the other. If we had more people with your temperament, sheer coolness and grace, wiki would be a far happier place. Ceoil (talk) 14:34, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

@Ceoil: thank you for saying that! It was very thoughtful. And yes, I also thought the review process went very well. Your input led to a whole host of improvements. The article is much more readable as a result. Cheers! Pericles of Athens^Talk 16:58, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

I tried to specify the picture at the start as unfinished, but then it just said "Roman picture" and nothing else. How can I edit it to say "Unfinished Roman picture" and then the needed parts?

From, EvaTheWingdale. 8:39:01, CST, Febuary 8th, 2021. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.14.221.98 (talk) 14:39, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Hello. Firstly, that is inaccurate. It is not an unfinished Roman fresco, it looks that way because it is badly damaged by wear and tear over the centuries, and it is clearly restored. The existing description of that Pompeian painting in the lead section is fine just how it is and it's properly sourced, for that matter. Also, you basically put your line of text in between the coded brackets that produces a link, causing an error. Please refrain from editing this or any other Featured article if you do not have a properly cited scholarly source to support your assertions. Regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 18:23, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Cleopatra

Sorry for not citing a better source. A quick check of Google books shows that Roller (2010) does use tetrarch but I believe that his usage is anomalous. In any event the link should be to Herodian Tetrarchy rather than Tetrarchy which is about the division of the Roman empire under Diocletian. I was surprised by the term, and followed the link. Seeing that it led to the wring article I thought to change it, but also checked the Herodian Tetrarchy to see if the term was also used for Herod the Great before he became king. That article only talks about the division of the kingdom after Herod's death and since there is no obvious application of the term (which means ruler of a fourth part) to Judea before that time, I assumed it was a simple error. I did not check the cited source since it is a book I do not have on my shelf. Since Roller applies the term to Herod, my edits were wrong, without a better source which I don't have handy. But my memory of my reliable, paper sources is that they agree with the article Herodian Tetrarchy that the term was not used of Herod the Great but only of his successors in ancient sources. Eluchil404 (talk) 00:25, 3 January 2019 (UTC) I posted this before I saw your comments on the article talk page which addressed this matter. I would just say that my prefered method of dealing with content, especially when I don't expect content to be controversial is WP:BRD. Eluchil404 (talk) 00:33, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

@Eluchil404: hello. Thanks for the reply and the explanation, but we should shift this conversation over to Talk:Cleopatra, to the section that I started there for this purpose. Regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 00:45, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi there, I'm looking to write an article on the popularity of the Cleopatra page. As one of the main editors, can you say why/how it got some popular? Thank youMediaOfTheFuture (talk) 22:17, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) see Talk:Cleopatra/Archive 5#Trending article throughout 2021. Aza24 (talk) 23:08, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, the link User:Aza24 shares here pretty much sums up everything I know about the article views. As far as we can tell, it's because of a Samsung phone voice app suggesting a search for Cleopatra on Wikipedia. I had no idea about this until someone else pointed it out, because I'm an iPhone user. Needless to say, a lot of people use Samsung phones. Pericles of Athens^Talk 16:04, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

2018 Year in Review

		The Epic Barnstar
		For your work on Reign of Cleopatra and Cleopatra you are hereby awarded The Epic Barnstar. Congrats! TomStar81 (Talk) 19:33, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

		The Biography Barnstar
		For your work on Reign of Cleopatra and Cleopatra you are hereby awarded The Biography Barnstar. Congrats! TomStar81 (Talk) 19:33, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

@TomStar81: thanks! If you liked that article, you'll almost certainly like the main article for Cleopatra, as well as Early life of Cleopatra and Death of Cleopatra. Pericles of Athens^Talk 19:37, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

cleopatra race

Hi there long time no talk! (Though a lot of see lol) I notice you also edit the Ancient Egyptian race controversy page. I was wondering you opinion of my contributions to Cleopatra's section and any recs to make it better, if you have time. Thanks! Kleopatra Selene (talk) 07:38, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

@Randyharrisonfan: Hello! I was just making it tidy. You did a good job on the Cleopatra sub-section if most of those edits are yours. To be honest I wasn't reading it thoroughly, I just come to see if there were any updates to the 2017 DNA study of 151 mummies from Lower Egypt in that Nature Communications/Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History report. The study found considerable West Asian genetics but little sub-Saharan influence. However, the samples used were also geographically limited to one location, the Faiyum Governorate in central Egypt (where the Roman-era Fayum mummy portraits were also found). Therefore the study did not include mummy samples from Upper Egypt (i.e. southern Egypt) where Egyptians almost certainly mixed and intermarried with Nubians of Kush originating from ancient Sudan, at least as far back as the conquest and absorption of Nubia's native Kerma culture. That would almost certainly skew the results towards a more sub-Saharan African genetic presence, but we are still unsure about it, or if this made an impact on the upper echelons of Egyptian society, the aristocracy, scribal class, and priesthood. The Fayum mummy portraits from the subsequent Roman era certainly show a diversity of looks ranging from Eastern Mediterranean Caucasian to light-skinned East African (frizzy Afro hair and all). Pericles of Athens^Talk 12:57, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

@PericlesofAthens: Yes most of them are mine, I've made it a mini project of sorts haha. Also that study was incredibly interesting. I believe other genetic and anthropological studies have shown the Sa'idi people / Copts of upper Egypt have barely to not at all been foreign wars so they're presumably what ethnically southern Egyptian people looked most like in ancient times. I'll try to find the particular sources. Keep up the really great work ! Kleopatra Selene (talk) 21:21, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Cleopatra

Hello PericlesofAthens, you don't happen to have a pdf version of 'Cleopatra: a biography, Oxford: Oxford University Press' by Duane W. Roller? Would appreciate it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:10, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran: Unfortunately no, I do not. I accessed a copy of it at my university library, but I do not have it anymore and I don't plan on consulting it again anytime soon. Best of luck in finding a suitable PDF! Regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 18:59, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran:@PericlesofAthens:(link removed) Here you go, gentlemen (sorry for interrupting). T8612 (talk) 19:34, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks lads :-). --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:37, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

@T8612: cool! That should come in handy sometime. :) Thanks for sharing. Kind regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 21:25, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

• Hi, do you have Hammond & Walbank's History of Macedonia in pdf by any chance? I can't pay $440 to get it. T8612 (talk) 03:27, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

@T8612: hello! Sorry, unfortunately I do not. Ouch, that sounds expensive too! Best of luck. Pericles of Athens^Talk 03:54, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

How would you like to go forward with the early life of Cleopatra? As FunkMonk has said, you as the main contributor to the article get to decide. But due to your retirement, it might be wise to have a co-nom. Векочел (talk) 13:45, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

• Actually, it might be better to nominate Reign of Cleopatra. Векочел (talk) 01:35, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Copyright

I believe some of the pictures in the article on Marcus Aurelius are held by their respective museums. Векочел (talk) 12:38, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

@Векочел: Crap. Really? Which ones? I won't add them back if they have copyright issues on their Wikimedia pages. Pericles of Athens^Talk 16:16, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

The files that I've removed. Векочел (talk) 22:00, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

@Векочел: Uh...you mean every single one? I've seen one that's literally been released into the public domain, one of the Equestrian Marcus Aurelius statue photos (the close up on the statue with nothing of substance in the background, so there is absolutely no possible copyright dispute). Take for instance also the photo of Marcus Aurelius bust next to the Lucius Verus one in the British Museum. Again, nothing in the background except for maybe blurry, out-of-focus wallpaper, which I'm sorry, is not copyrighted by the British Museum. Whoever is telling you this about the images either doesn't know what they're talking about when it comes to copyright, or they're being intentionally dishonest for whatever reason. Pericles of Athens^Talk 22:15, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

• I suppose you have no plans to get early life, reign, and death of Cleopatra to FA status? Векочел (talk) 22:35, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

@Векочел: Not Reign of Early life, but Death of Cleopatra already is a featured article. It successfully passed the FA nomination somewhat recently. Pericles of Athens^Talk 22:47, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I hope that Early life and Reign are promoted at some point. Векочел (talk) 23:02, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Would you mind if I nominated Early life of Cleopatra for FA status? I've collected some sources on Cleopatra to help me. Векочел (talk) 18:18, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

@Векочел: Hello. You may pursue the nomination if you want, but are you sure it's ready for that? It is fleshed out somewhat, but it's not a very sizable, significantly detailed article. It does have a bunch of explanatory footnotes at least. I see that you already started the nomination process. Good luck with that, although it might not pass due to its small size and some editors thinking that it isn't thorough enough and doesn't cover all notable subjects or details about her early life. I would argue that it does since we don't know that much about her early life, but you might get complaints about it. Regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 20:42, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Also, I would appreciate it if you would approach me first about nominating FA articles, especially ones that I've written almost entirely. Pericles of Athens^Talk 20:43, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

King Epiphanios, A.D. 400?

• "(...) It is not certain when it was introduced in Cappadocia, but it was in use before the Roman conquest, from the time of King Archelaos (34 B.C.-A.D. 17) until that of King Epiphanios (A.D. 400; Ginzel)."[1]

Do you perhaps know who this Epiphanios/-us might be? - LouisAragon (talk) 18:54, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Mary Boyce refers to the same "Epiphanius" as being "Basil's correspondent" (Boyce, Mary A History of Zoroastrianism, Zoroastrianism under Macedonian and Roman Rule. p. 279)[2] - LouisAragon (talk) 19:27, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Nevermind! Its solved, thanks to the always helpful Attar-Aram syria.[3] - LouisAragon (talk) 00:01, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Simplified submission of Wikipedia articles for external peer review

Hi, I just remembered to put a note here that the submission process for existing Wikipedia articles to a WikiJournal has been simplified a bit by creation this page: WP:WikiJournal article nominations. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)^talk 05:45, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

TFA

Thank you for today's Cleopatra: "[Epic Shakespearean announcer's voice:] BEHOLD! Cleopatra, seventh of her name! The pharaoh of Egypt; descendant of Alexander the Great's companion Ptolemy I Soter; the pious goddess who loves her father; the Living Isis (no, not that ISIS, you pleb); the Queen of Kings and mother of Julius Caesar's child Caesarion and three little rugrats belonging to Mark Antony."! - Behold! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:07, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Redirect

Do you think it’s better to use pipe ‘B’ for the link to ‘A’ rather than simply linking ‘B’ if ‘B’ is a redirect to ‘A’? Векочел (talk) 17:46, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

@Векочел: I don't have a preference; I use either one and I have no qualms with using both in the same article, especially if it allows for a couple more useful links at choice locations for our readers. Pericles of Athens^Talk 20:50, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Cleopatra article

Dear Pericles, It is a great honor for me to receive this incentive. I'm working on this translation of Cleopatra because it's a high quality article. I salute you for the great research and writing work. I also translated the article Ancient Egyptian literature into Portuguese because it's a precious and thought-provoking subject. I congratulate you on your wonderful and exemplary work and on encouraging my translation. Sorry my english is not very good...

I am Brazilian. --Zoldyick (talk) 00:47, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

@Zoldyick: Hello again! Thank you for the compliments and for also translating my other article on Ancient Egyptian literature. I didn't know about that! That's a wonderful surprise. I wish you the best of luck in translating all of this, it's really commendable. Keep up the excellent job. Pericles of Athens^Talk 02:33, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

@Zoldyick: Hi again! I just wanted to make a small request. I know you must be busy like everyone else and I don't expect you to finish the article anytime soon, but could you prioritize finishing the lead section of the Portuguese article and translate the third paragraph, which is missing? It might confuse or confound some readers since the present article in Portuguese says nothing about how Cleopatra actually died! That entire context is missing except for the passing mention of it in your first paragraph. Unfortunately there is no article yet in Portuguese on the death or "morte de Cleópatra", so your Portuguese readers don't even have an option to go there to learn more about the topic. Just a thought! Thanks again for all your hard work. Cheers, Pericles of Athens^Talk 21:16, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Sorry for taking so long to answer, my time is short. I'll complete the lead section in a few days by concluding the third paragraph, as you said. There is an editor who is writing an article about Cleopatra's death in Portuguese. Anyway, the work goes on. --Zoldyick (talk) 00:50, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Just a note, some of your articles have also been translated into Indonesian: Kleopatra, Makedonia (kerajaan kuno), Hubungan Romawi-Tiongkok, Dinasti Song, and Dinasti Tang. Also the translation of Dinasti Han is almost finished (only the science part remaining). Thank you for sharing your academic knowledge on Wikipedia, it has also indirectly helped other Wikis! Mimihitam (talk) 19:08, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

@Mimihitam: thank you as well for the kind words! I didn't know about all of these articles being translated into Indonesian, so I'm very glad you brought them to my attention. I'm happy to also see that my article on the Parthian Empire has been translated into other languages too. It's encouraging indeed! Pericles of Athens^Talk 21:06, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

I have a short question. This sentence: "Dangerous amounts of additional gas were siphoned off via carburetor chambers and exhaust pipes." --> I can't find it in page 191-194. Or did I miss something? Thank you. Mimihitam (talk) 13:10, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

References

@Mimihitam: I see what happened here! Someone removed Robert Temple (1986) as a source because his work is rather spurious, but the natural gas coming from 600 m (2000 ft) below the surface of the earth via borehole drilling to heat brine in furnaces was written about by Loewe. He just never mentioned exhaust pipes like Temple did. Therefore, I'm removing Temple and the exhaust pipe claim from the article Science and technology of the Han dynasty as well. Good catch! Pericles of Athens^Talk 14:46, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your help! I've also removed the mention of exhaust pipe & carburetor from Han Dynasty. Mimihitam (talk) 14:49, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Epic Barnstar
		I cannot recall if I have ever given you a barnstar for your work here, but you definitely deserve one. You are one of Wikipedia's finest editors. You have written over two dozen "Featured Articles" about various important historical subjects including Augustus, Cleopatra, the Parthian Empire, the Tang Dynasty, and ancient Egyptian literature; whereas, in all my time here, I never succeeded in writing even one "Featured Article." Although we have had a few disagreements from time-to-time, I admire you for your seemingly indefatigable efforts to improve the quality of articles here on Wikipedia. —Katolophyromai (talk) 00:52, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

@Katolophyromai: thank you kindly for this! I am honored. Pericles of Athens^Talk 16:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Foreign relations of China

There’s a discussion at Talk:Foreign relations of China#It’s time to split the article at 1991 that may be of interest.ch (talk)

Wuxi

Hi. I'm not sure if you're still active but if you could reinforce the history sometime that would be great, I just overhauled the article!♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:26, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Seven years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:35, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you today for Mosaics of Delos, which "might seem like an arcane, niche topic but in terms of surviving Greek mosaic artwork it is of prime importance."! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:48, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you today for Ethiopian historiography, "filled with a rich amount of historical details..." "... the second African-history related article ..." "... focused on a sub-Saharan African country and Semitic culture"! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:11, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you today for Macedonia (ancient kingdom), "home of Alexander the Great, deserves an article worthy of His Majesty's name! It is the will of the gods and the birthright of the Macedonians to both conquer and rule this little section of Wikipedia. Like the glorious Philippeion of Olympia, Greece erected by Alexander's one-eyed father Philip II, this article has been constructed for the glory of Macedonia"! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:02, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

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Historiography article

Hi. I noticed you added this to the lead of historiography. Given that you are familiar with the topic, would you be able to review the recent addition made here and the subsequent edits? Carcharoth (talk) 11:43, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

@Carcharoth: Hello! Thanks for bringing this to my attention. The addition to the article linked above, which has since been reverted by another editor, didn't seem like a substantial improvement to the article. Firstly it was written in very basic English, almost like it was prepared initially for Simple English Wikipedia but placed in our encyclopedia instead. Secondly, the cited source was a rather odd choice and the editor failed to cite a specific page number on top of that. The added statements were also incredibly vague and stating the obvious, to the point where it almost sounded like a parody article on Unencyclopedia. Adding these things to the WP:LEAD section and not some part of the article's main body was another peculiar choice. The lead is almost exclusively reserved for offering a WP:SUMMARY of the main body of the article, usually with an introductory paragraph that defines the absolute basics of the encyclopedic entry. So introducing new ideas into the lead section plus new inline citations, which are best left for the body of the article, was not the best choice the editor could have made. I hope you found this useful! Regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 23:36, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

PericlesofAthens,
Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia, and a Happy New Year to you and yours! Wario-Man (talk) 06:52, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

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– Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year}} to user talk pages.

@Wario-Man: thank you kindly, and Happy New Year to you as well! Pericles of Athens^Talk 07:20, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 8

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List of Chinese inventions

Hi Pericles. Sorry, but the quality of the list is not what it used to be: Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/List of Chinese inventions/archive1. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 22:30, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Mosaics of Delos scheduled for TFA

This is to let you know that Mosaics of Delos has been scheduled as WP:TFA for 5 February 2020. Please check that the article needs no amendments. If you're interested in editing the main page text, you're welcome to do so at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/February 5, 2020. Thanks! Ealdgyth - Talk 20:29, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Crank and Connecting Rod

Hi Pericles. Based on your past edit history I was hoping if you can help me with sourcing the crank and connecting rod section that I've added here: Wikipedia:List of Chinese Inventions. I've used the source "International Symposium on History of Machines and Mechanisms" edited by Hong-Sen Yan, Marco Ceccarelli. However the actual paper within the book is called "Crank and Connecting Rod Mechanism" by F. Lisheng and T. Qingjun. So I am unsure how to reference this as a source. Sorry for the bother, I am new to editing wikipedia. ArchimedesTheInventor (talk) 6:42, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Roman empire revert

Just letting you know I basically undid your revert of my edit. All I did was add a single reference where one was asked for so I was a little surprised you reverted it. The sectioning predated my edit and your merging of them I think is much cleaner way to organize things. So I basically just added my reference back back on top of your edit. I just wanted to leave a message here in case it popped up on your watchlist and you thought I was undoing your edit for some reason. Just in case if you were reverting due to my reference let me know whats wrong and will figure something out, though I think its decent even though its bit of an old secondary source that also means its in the public domain and I linked it in the reference with the page numbers so users can check themselves rather just seeing a title and isbn number that they just have to trust says whats its citing.

Thanks Kwwhit5531 (talk) 04:45, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

@Kwwhit5531: Hello. Thanks for responding. Firstly, I almost always assume good faith with editors who have a history of contributions to Wikipedia and maybe make an honest error, like you did here by removing the entire History sub-section "Transition from Republic to Empire" about Julius Caesar, Cleopatra, Mark Antony, Octavian becoming Augustus and being succeeded by Tiberius, replacing it entirely with a duplicate copy and paste of the entire sub-section "Fall in the West and survival in the East", with the fall of the Western Roman Empire and continuation of the Eastern Roman Empire. I was considering placing a soft warning on your talk page about vandalism, but with your citations I figured it was just a huge screw up and nothing nefarious. Also yes, I saw your subsequent edits and they seem just fine by me. We all make big mistakes sometimes, but please be a little more careful about editing things in the future. On that note, thanks for improving the citations of the article. Kind regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 05:00, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I was literally just editing your talk page to tell you I was an idiot after I compared the versions. But I couldn't post since you were responding at the same time, anyway thanks that was embarrassing, I'm not even sure what I did wrong, as far as I can remember all I did was click edit section for the last section, then cite (manual), publish. How I overwrote one section with another I have no idea. I think it might have been one of the experimental features you can enable in settings, cause I've noticed article preview has been acting weird as well. So I just went into settings and hit default all to use the base Wikipedia settings, so hopefully nothing like that will happens again. --Kwwhit5531 (talk) 05:17, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

I though you might be interested in this link I posted in the Roman Empire's external links The Digital Atlas of Roman and Medieval Civilizations its a historical geographic information system from Harvard. I plan to use it sometime to make maps in ArcGIS to use on Wikipedia, but I thought it would be a useful addition to the digital atlas' already listed since one is a dead link and the other seems to be a dutch site? (not sure what the .nu stands for), I also thought you might interested in it if you're interested roman history. Thanks --Kwwhit5531 (talk) 10:14, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

@Kwwhit5531: nice! That's a worthy addition to the article. Thanks for sharing. Wikimedia Commons could always use a better set of historical maps for various historical empires, the Romans included. Pericles of Athens^Talk 07:41, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm gonna release some of my own work on wikimedia commons as well. This one I uploaded yesterday since its the only one I had converted to an image file, I'll probably make another version with just the railroads perfect I feel for a sherman's march article. I've got maps of several different decades of georgia, one of south carolina, one ireland, 2-3 d-day maps, battle of kurland, hejaz railroad, and probably other stuff I've forgotten about I'm a history major, gis minor so I've been making maps for classes for years and their pretty much always historical maps. Oh and the link sent you just shows the roman map, you can get to the medieval map (this is the link on the article) here, they also have a africa and chinese gis on another harvard site.--Kwwhit5531 (talk) 16:02, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Ethiopian historiography

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List of Chinese inventions

I have nominated List of Chinese inventions for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 18:30, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Macedonia (ancient kingdom) scheduled for TFA

This is to let you know that Macedonia (ancient kingdom) has been scheduled as WP:TFA for 7 May 2020. Please check that the article needs no amendments. If you're interested in editing the main page text, you're welcome to do so at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/May 7, 2020. Thanks! Ealdgyth (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Cai Lun

PericlesofAthens, I've noticed your substantial contributions on the site, especially in the Han Dynasty in general and specifically Science of Technology in the Han Dynasty so I thought you might be the right person to ask. While I recognize that you are not as active as you once were, if you do end up seeing this message I would really appreciate any comments you could give on what I've done with Cai Lun's article. I hope to nominate it for GA (and then eventually FA) but the lack of modern sources may prevent this. However, my main concern is if I'm explaining his place in the history of paper/Chinese history correctly, so any thoughts/corrections on that would be very much appreciated. Best - Aza24 (talk) 04:31, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

@Aza24: hello! Your article looks great! It is definitely GA worthy material. Citations and sources look good from what I can see. You don't overstate his case, accurately showcasing the nuance that paper-making was a process he contributed to whereas earlier cruder forms existed in Han China before him. The only problem I saw in the article were a couple instances where you made a typo and didn't capitalize the word "Chinese", which is a proper noun (seeing how it's an ethnic group and a nationality). Bravo! I wish you best of luck in obtaining a successful nomination for GA status. Pericles of Athens^Talk 14:36, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm glad to hear you think so - and thank you for fixing the capitalization error! To be honest, you've been something of an inspiration to me - Wikipedia wise :) I joined a couple months back with the intention of working on the biographies of early music composers (since so much attention is given to later composers) and paintings by Leonardo da Vinci. I purposely tried to stay away from bigger articles, like Medieval music/Renaissance music or Leonardo's article it self but after seeing the unbelievable amount of massive featured articles you were able to achieve, I had a change of heart. I firstly decided to work on more topics/people from Asia, as I've always been interested in Chinese and Japanese history but didn't think I'd be able to work on both (which you were able to do). And I also decided that getting these composers and paintings up to FA would be a perfect way to have enough foundation to eventually work on articles like Medieval music/Renaissance music or Leonardo da Vinci! In the far far future I hope to work on Emperor Qin and the Qin dynasty, or maybe even Confucianism. Also – you might be the only person on this Wikipedia that I have ever seen use "lol" or frankly, have a good sense of humor... I often feel like I have to speak super formely to everyone so it's nice to see that not everyone on this site takes themselves too seriously! Aza24 (talk) 23:32, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

@Aza24: hello. My advice would be to just go for it and work on Renaissance music as a GA candidate and Leonardo da Vinci as an FA candidate, improving them and submitting them, because in my estimation Wikipedia works much slower these days. I have truly lost my patience for it. Compared to how it what it was in the past it is in a kind of a Lord of the Flies situation and relatively few people bother to review articles nowadays. Believe it or not there used to be even more little tyrants populating this site, those who tried to block or stymie what you were doing in the most exhaustively pedantic ways, sometimes with exasperating ideological biases (in fact there is still one such fellow who haunts my articles trying to have them delisted because he simply has an ax to grind against anything related to historical achievements by the Chinese). I still think it's amazing that I have gotten that many FA articles passed, although GA nominations have always been remarkably easier. That would be great if you reworked the article on Qin Shihuangdi or Confucianism; I would certainly support that. I've been choosing somewhat obscure targets of late to keep my activity under the radar, doing FA articles on Ethiopian historiography and the Mosaics of Delos. However, in the past few years I have done Featured articles on more well known topics like Macedonia (kingdom) (with Ancient Macedonians as a GA article) and the most high profile one of all: Cleopatra. I'm still surprised I was able to get that one and Death of Cleopatra as successfully nominated FA articles. Sadly I just don't have the patience to do that ever again, but you're fresh and new to the site, so my advice would be to get as much done as quickly as possible before the process itself wears you down. Regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 00:40, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Hey Pericles of Athens, back again with another question about Cai Lun. His article is undergoing a GA review right now and the reviewer and I are wondering if the various emperors who are discussed (Emperor Ming, Zhang etc.) need their title before every mention, do you have any thoughts about this? Best - Aza24 (talk) 22:29, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Rome's Near Eastern province

Hi. What did you mean by "Rome's Near Eastern province"? Please ping me. Eric Kvaalen (talk) 09:07, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@Eric Kvaalen: hello. Not sure how you found an edit of mine from 13 years ago, but "Near Eastern" refers to the Near East, i.e. Anatolia and the Levant in West Asia. It should actually be pluralized as "Near Eastern provinces", since Rome had several provinces in the eastern Mediterranean by this time, not just one. Also, the tribute would have been from borderlands of provincial territories or interior provincial municipalities still governed by their own constitutions and local laws, as semi-autonomous republics or monarchies allied to the Romans (Socii et amici populi Romani). The only thing that would need correction here is the pluralization of the word province, because we are talking about Augustus commandeering the tribute of these provinces to bolster his own resources. Pericles of Athens^Talk 12:32, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I found it by going to the article's history page and clicking on "Find addition/removal", and then using that to find when "Near Eastern" was inserted. Eric Kvaalen (talk) 19:18, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Addition of Alexander the Great to the good topic on Macedonia

Hi Pericles, do you know whether Alexander the Great should be added to the good topic on Macedonia? It is a good article too. T8612 (talk) 12:19, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

@T8612: Hello. Sorry, but that's going to have to be a strong no from me, even though he's one of the most important figures in history and his very name is more well known than the actual kingdom he came from. I understand his paramount importance, but adding him to the topic would seem like an invitation for someone to then argue adding Philip II of Macedon and then another monarch, and then another, when the topic is about the kingdom itself, not its individual kings. A more suitable article added to the topic would be something like List of ancient Macedonians or better yet a new article with a list focusing exclusively on its line of kings. Pericles of Athens^Talk 20:33, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks and ask some questions

Hello, PericlesofAthens.I am a Chinese wikipedian who comes from Xi'an city (A Chinese ancient capital).Thanks for your contribution to Chinese ancient history！I found you write many FA, for instance Han dynasty and Tang dynasty. And I also want to ask and consult some questions for you. Which source is more reliable？Chinese traditional history books or foreign citation？I eager to write and enrich some articles about Chinese history, northern and southern dynasties (南北朝). It is a period a little like western middle ages. But I am confused when I saw many citations. Choosing from them is not an easy thing.Can you give me some suggestions?

BTW, you write "Tang dynasty is Chinese golden age ".I don't think so…Tang is not a sustainable empire, many turmoils happened at that time. Despite Tang has many high technology objects, it still can't compare with Song dynasty (北宋、南宋). You are right, Tang has many different and good systems to other dynasties.However,TBH,many of them is original in northern and southern dynasties,song,qi,liang,chenand some northern countries (北朝).There are many answers for the question," Which era is the ancient Chinese golden age?" and Tang is not a perfect answer I think.

In the end.The last two questions. Do you know some modern Irish history? And can you write/understand some Chinese?I once tried to write an article about Ireland (Irish great hunger 爱尔兰大饥荒, You can directly search the word“爱尔兰大饥荒” in google). I found nobody in Chinese wikipedian…Can you help me? Thanks for giving me a zone to ask and consult. I hope you enjoy a good editing life. Best wish.-波斯波莉斯 (talk) 14:44, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

@波斯波莉斯: hello! You are very welcome and thank you for praising my work here on English Wikipedia. I am honored. To address your first question about citations from Wikipedia:Reliable sources, I would stick mostly to modern scholarly works published by academic institutions (universities, museums, libraries, research centers, etc.). Although we prioritize sources in the English language, they don't have to be from Western countries, and can simply be works from anywhere, including East Asia or China in particular. There's certainly nothing wrong with that, aside from the rare instance where Chinese academics and those from other countries disagree strongly on a controversial or sensitive political topic in history. You certainly won't run into any problems there with the Northern and Southern Dynasties, as most modern academic disagreements dealing with territories like Tibet or Taiwan stem from either Ming or Qing dynasty history. Pericles of Athens^Talk 04:53, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

@波斯波莉斯: As for which dynasty represents the "golden age", that was one of the few things in the WP:Lead section of the Tang dynasty article that I didn't actually write, as some other editor added it. However, I don't object to the claim or label of a golden age, as it is also frequently applied to the Han dynasty. I personally think China under the Song dynasty was culturally, intellectually, technologically and socially more advanced than either the Han or Tang empires, but most people don't refer to it as a golden age simply because of the fragmented political history of northern parts of China being ruled over by the Khitan Liao dynasty, Tangut Western Xia dynasty, Jurchen Jin dynasty, and of course the Mongols who eventually formed the Yuan dynasty. I think this is a wrong approach to judging the Song dynasty, but unfortunately most others don't see it my way and I've never seen an academic describe the Song dynasty as a golden age. A shame, because in my humble opinion I consider figures like Shen Kuo (沈括) to be the very best of what pre-modern China had to offer. Pericles of Athens^Talk 04:53, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

@波斯波莉斯: I know some Irish history and I even lived in Northern Ireland (part of the UK) as a postgraduate student for several years, but it is actually not my area of expertise. I still know a bit of Mandarin Chinese from college, but I am very rusty. Believe it or not, Chinese language and history are also not my areas of expertise. I just happen to love Chinese history and view Imperial China as a sort of equivalent to the Roman Empire in East Asia that managed to regroup and outlive the Roman Empire by surviving into the 20th century with the Guangxu and Xuantong emperors of the late Qing dynasty. I would be happy to help you hunt down sources for the Northern and Southern dynasties, though! Pericles of Athens^Talk 04:53, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

@波斯波莉斯: Google Books is helpful but usually has too many pages missing from previews of books. I would strongly advise searching for free online academic sources in addition to any books you might have on the topic. For instance, simply Googling "Southern and Northern Dynasties, site:edu", as the "site:edu" specification added to the end will lead you to purely academic websites, not social media blogs or pop news articles. For instance, I was able to find these interesting sources from the Michael Schwartz Library talking about calligraphy during the Northern and Southern dynasties period, or this site from the University of Southern California China Institute discussing artwork during the long period of the Six Dynasties. Best of luck to you finding what you need! Pericles of Athens^Talk 04:53, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Cai Lun and Tang Dynasty

PericlesofAthens, I hope you're doing well since we last spoke. You may be happy to hear that since then Cai Lun has achieved GA status! I'm thinking about FA eventually but have recently found some more sources that I'll have to implement first. I'm planning to try and get some of the other Lists of emperors to FL status to join your Han and Song dynasty ones. At the moment I'm looking at the Tang list but am unsure about what academic sources I could find a list in to reference. I see that the other two FLs reference a lot from "Bo Yang (1977). Timeline of Chinese History" – is this available online somewhere? If not, are there other sources you recall would have information on the reigns/era names/personal names etc.? Best - Aza24 (talk) 06:30, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

@Aza24: hello! Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Great job on the article! Hopefully you can bring it up to FA status. As for sources, sorry I don't recall any that provide those, but best of luck in your editing! Cheers. Pericles of Athens^Talk 09:21, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Eight years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:49, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Today's Wikipedian 10 years ago

Awesome

Ten years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:34, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you today for Death of Cleopatra! - I brought an image of two women to the Main page, DYK? ... after the article of one was proposed for deletion? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:50, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

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Offer

Hi PericlesofAthens. I know that you are a great wikipedia user, have made many fine contributions and featured articles about history topic, such as the Roman Empire, Silk road... So may you help me to transform some draft history articles to become good, for example, China–Vietnam relations, French Indochina, mister? I am really try, but still unable to make a article to reach the standard nomination. I will be so grateful, if you spend times for my request. Appreciate. Laska666 (talk) 18:35, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

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Greek mythology review

@PericlesofAthens: Hi there! I am not sure how much you know about ancient Greece (as I mainly see you in articles related to ancient China) but Greek mythology is currently under review. Since you are very experienced in history, I believe you would be extremely valuable in reviving the article. If you are busy (judging from the activity banner at the top), that is fine. Cheers. Wretchskull (talk) 15:04, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Having a hard time to correctly find the location of content related to Ancient Macedonian government

Hello!

I have found incoming links to articles Macedonia (ancient kingdom) or Government of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) for content that seems to no longer be there. Specifically:

• Merides redirects to Macedonia (ancient kingdom) § Institutions. This term is also listed at Regional assemblies with a link to Macedon § Regional assemblies. It is mentioned on several articles such as Fourth Macedonian War, Philippi and Amphipolis as either the administrative divisions of the Macedonian kingdom or the four states the Romans divided the kingdom into after the conquest.
• Synedrion had a section on Macedonia with a main article link to Macedon § Council (Synedrion)

There are no longer sections with these names on either Macedonia (ancient kingdom) or Government of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) articles, and the terms merides or synedrion are not even mentioned.

It is bad for the reader to have these links pointing them to nowhere. As you took part in restructuring these articles, would you have any idea of where this content may have gone, so that we could fix incoming links? Place Clichy (talk) 16:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@Place Clichy: Hello. Thanks for bringing these to my attention. Unfortunately I don't spend much time on Wikipedia anymore as I am semi-retired and nearly fully retired as I have not made major edits in a very long time, only minor changes or updates. I did not just restructure the Macedonia (ancient kingdom), I rewrote it entirely because it was in a poor state. I then submitted it as an FAC and it is currently a Featured status article. I am the one who both created and wrote Government of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) in 2017, with only small contributions from other editors since then. I was unaware of these redirects in various other articles since I did not create or compose them. If you would like to make minor additions to the articles for Macedon and its government by linking or briefly explaining the merides and synedrion, by all means please do so. Although the term "synedrion" is not mentioned specifically in the prose, the concept is clearly outlined in the "Companions, friends, councils, and assemblies" sub-section of the government article. In the meantime, I have placed a "further info" link for "Synedrion" there. As for merides, the topic of the allied client republics and puppet states created by the Romans after their conquest of Macedon in 168 BC is outlined in the "Conflict with Rome" sub-section of the overall "History" section. Perhaps a redirect should be pointed there instead of "Institutions", but I'll leave that up to you. Regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 02:03, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

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Corrections

I appreciate your apparent zeal, but I would advise that you pay attention to the actual edit being made before charging into a "correction". The sentence before I fixed it read, "at Battle of Gaixia". I changed it to "the Battle of Gaixia", which you bizarrely imply is the opposite of my edit. I am aware that the definite article is used before the name of a battle. Italia2006 (talk) 14:22, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

@Italia2006: oops! I must have read that wrong and was distracted while editing. It was indeed the opposite. My mistake. Pericles of Athens^Talk 14:25, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

We all make mistakes. Cheers! Italia2006 (talk) 14:27, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thank you for your hard work in exceptional articles. Your expertise is valued!

SJCreecy (talk) 09:34, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

@SJCreecy: why, thank you very much, kind stranger! It is much appreciated. I'm glad you've enjoyed my content. Cheers. Pericles of Athens^Talk 10:01, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

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Precious anniversary

Precious

Nine years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:44, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

		Scholarly Barnstar
		Your fine contributions to the project based on high-quality academic sources, including your contributions to articles from the contentious WP:BALKANS topic area, not only is remarkable and truly inspiring, but has even resulted in some of the most sensitive articles of the last decade becoming GA or FA, a feat considered unthinkable several years ago. Keep up the good work! - ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 00:14, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

I have seen your edits and the use of high-profile sources around this difficult topic area is something I felt has to be appreciated and is worthy of recognition. Have a good day! --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 00:14, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

@SilentResident: Thanks for the kind words and for this prestigious award! Very thoughtful of you. Also yes, writing various articles about ancient Macedon produced some difficulty with both sources and other editors who challenged things, but overall the effort was worth it. Cheers! Pericles of Athens^Talk 15:32, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes this difficulty is what IMO got me concerned a GA or FA may in fact be too difficult to impossible. But it wasn't. Have a nice day! And btw fixed this for you: [4] Enjoy! :-) --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 16:22, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

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Parthian Empire

Not sure if you brought the article Parthian Empire up to FA, but I thought I should notify you of changes made to referenced information. If you are not interested or busy, then you can just ignore this message. Stay safe. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:48, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: hello! Thanks for alerting me about this and restoring the information that was removed without much justification. Yes, I am the one who successfully nominated Parthian Empire for FA status. I have no objections to your additional wording "enemy in Asia", although the other editor is simply wrong. Even when one excludes Hadrian's Wall, Rome had an enormous limes border across continental Europe to defend that stretched from western Germania to the Black Sea. However, this was to secure the borders against numerous different groups, most of which were not united except for rare occasions. Tribes outside Roman control rarely banded together in a huge force to invade Roman territory before the Third Century Crisis, such as in the Cimbrian War or the Marcomannic Wars. There were plenty of invasions of Roman territory after the Parthian dynasty was replaced by the Sasanians by 224 AD, but while Parthia existed they were absolutely the largest and most dangerous threat to the Romans. There's really no comparison, and the Romans were very proactive in curbing this threat by repeatedly invading Mesopotamia. At one point during the Second Triumvirate, as the article explains, the Parthians were poised to take the Roman Levant, had replaced Rome's client ruler in Judea, and even invaded Roman Anatolia before Mark Antony's officer Publius Ventidius Bassus defeated them. Pericles of Athens^Talk 23:22, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Also, the other editor was wrong to remove the prominent link and discussion about the Silk Road from the first paragraph, with the context of Parthia being the middle power between the Roman Empire in the west and the Han Empire of China. Doing that was completely unwarranted, so thanks again for reverting his edit. Kind regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 23:22, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Well, I believe that if there are to be any changes to the article, since it is FA-level there should be more than just two editors involved in forming any decision(s). --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:47, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

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Pericles at FAR

@PericlesofAthens: You may be interested in this. Wretchskull (talk) 13:28, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Proposed graph illustrating DNA study

Hey, I see you recently tried to illustrate the Population history of Egypt article with a certain graph. I recently tried to illustrate DNA history of Egypt with the same image. The same editor removed the graph in both bases. While I see their point that the graph might be misleading in the more general "population history" article, I don't agree that it should be excluded from an article specifically about the DNA history of Egypt. Perhaps you would like to comment on the article talk page where I have started a conversation: Talk:DNA history of Egypt Ficaia (talk) 06:32, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Reign of Cleopatra

Hi, PericlesofAthens. I am Unlimitedlead, and I would like to introduce myself. Recently, I acquired a large collection of books, many of which pertain to Cleopatra. For the next few weeks/months, I will be adding citations, sources, and content to the Reign of Cleopatra article, as well as fixing grammatical, formatting, and punctuational errors. It is my sincere wish that we amicably collaborate on the article, and maybe even nominate it as a featured article together. See you around? Unlimitedlead (talk) 19:33, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead: Hello! Yes, that sounds fine to me. Thanks for taking an interest in the article and for contacting me about it. I am no longer very active on this website, so please do not get the wrong impression if it takes an incredibly long time for me to reply to any of your queries. It is nice to hear that you have an abundance of scholarly sources at your disposal; that is certainly the key building block! The article can be expanded a bit, but please be cautious about that. Reviewers of Featured article candidates do not like to see longwinded articles on any subject without appropriate justification (see the relevant guidelines at Wikipedia:Article size). I look forward to seeing your proposed amendments and am happy to help with advice or very minor tasks if necessary. Cheers! Pericles of Athens^Talk 22:47, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for getting back to me! I will keep your advice in mind when writing and revising the article. Can I ask your opinion on including ancient sources in the article (like Suetonius' The Lives of the Twelve Caesars)? Unlimitedlead (talk) 17:05, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead Hello again! You are very welcome. I would use such primary sources very sparingly, in most cases as a simple supporting citation or if a source for a particular quotation cannot be found elsewhere. Wikipedia emphasizes the primacy of secondary sources over primary sources, since articles on historical subjects should reflect modern scholarly consensus. On the contrary, a large quantity of ancient primary sources are prone to being riddled with small errors or obvious political biases, and are hence not as reliable without analysis by modern historians who can provide basic fact checking, skepticism, or proper context. For this reason it is rather tricky to use excerpts from primary sources that mention or explain the reign of Cleopatra. I have provided a detailed explanation of this here: Cleopatra#Roman_literature_and_historiography. Take a look at Wikipedia:Reliable sources for general info about primary versus secondary sources. Cheers and best of luck! Pericles of Athens^Talk 12:24, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply! I will be sure to keep that in mind as I am editing. One last concern: I noticed that throughout the article, there are many introductory prepositional phrases that lack commas after them. I am aware that commas are optional if the phrase numbers four or less words, but it has made reading much more confusing. Would you be opposed to me adding the appropriate punctuation marks where they belong? Best wishes, Unlimitedlead (talk) 15:41, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead Feel free to add or remove punctuation as you see fit. I consider it a minor issue and I have no strong preference either way. Kind regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 18:39, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Much thanks for your input! I have just gone through and revised all grammar and punctuational issues; despite my previous concerns, it seems that this article can be improved to FA status sooner than I expected! The sources I have selected for the article have done their job, and unless you have further suggestions for improvement (which are encouraged, by the way), I believe that this article should be FA-material in a week or two. Unlimitedlead (talk) 01:17, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead No problem! You're welcome. The article looks good overall, but do make sure that newly added images are properly licensed like the others (i.e., the bust of Octavian). Also, some reviewers might complain about the lengthiness of the lead section, but in my point of view it seems fine. It could perhaps be trimmed a bit, but should arguably include more information given how it fails to summarize or even mention the content in the "Egypt under the monarchy of Cleopatra" section. My concern about the length of the lead was the only reason that I didn't expand it to include a summary of that particular section. I think a single sentence could perhaps be added, but only if the lead is somehow trimmed significantly. It might also be a trivial matter that none of the reviewers will even notice or care about. On another note, your newly cited sources look great! Excellent work. Pericles of Athens^Talk 13:14, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

I will look into that and see what I can do. Thank you! Unlimitedlead (talk) 15:11, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

I just added a sentence on said section and have done my best to cut down on trivial information. In the coming days, I will continue to work on it. If you have any suggestions or comments, feel free to reach out. Cheers! Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:27, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi, @PericlesofAthens, I have done my best to trim the lead, but unfortunately, its current state is the shortest I can get it without excluding important information. If you are alright with it, I intend on jointly nominating the article with you for FA review sometime this week. Unlimitedlead (talk) 01:09, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead Great work! I would be honored to make a joint nomination. The section lead looks fine to me. There should be no complaints from reviewers about it after your efforts. Cheers! Pericles of Athens^Talk 09:56, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

@PericlesofAthens Sounds great! I will likely start the nomination later today; if you could help me with addressing the feedback from other users, that would be lovely. Once again, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to improve this article with you! Kind regards, Unlimitedlead (talk) 12:04, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead No problem! Unfortunately I won't be able to do anything until next week, but it looks like you already have a couple detractors taking issue with the size of the lead. I thought that would be the case. I would point out the lead section for Reign of Cleopatra is roughly the size of Cleopatra, the latter of which is already a featured article. I think the lead looks entirely reasonable after the cuts we made, given the size of the article. I also find the complaint about the overall size of the article to be a somewhat moot point, since it is already a split/sibling article of Cleopatra and its size is entirely reasonable given the subject matter. Pericles of Athens^Talk 21:55, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi, @PericlesofAthens. Unfortunately, there have been multiple Wikipedians who insist that the article, especially its lead, is too long for its own good. Therefore, with the encouragement of @Gog the Mild, I have withdrawn (or at least attempted to, I'm not exactly sure how to do that) the nomination so that we can fix it. I'd say this process may take a few weeks, unfortunately.

I must say, I am rather disappointed that this is how the nomination ended up after only a day of being posted, but we must learn from our past experiences. Thanks, Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:09, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

The article needs to be more concise. There are very large notes that should be in the text. Several sections could be trimmed down as there are already articles on the subject (Alexandrian war, battle of Actium, Donations of Alexandria [actually these articles are rather poor, so I suggest moving some of the text in reign of Cleopatra to there] and Downfall and death).

I think most of modern art pictures illustrating the article could be removed; there are enough ancient depictions of her and it would clear some space.

Regarding the sources, the article mainly follows Roller, Burstein and Fletcher, but I see several books in further readings that could be included (never read any of them though). Reading them might help finding what is the academic consensus on the subject and therefore removing or trimming text from outlying opinions.

I'm sorry I don't have much time to devote to this article. T8612 (talk) 23:30, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

No worries! We will take your feedback into consideration. I'd like to point out, however, that most of the lengthy notes are actually describing the images as part of their captions, rather than the article itself. Thanks, Unlimitedlead (talk) 00:04, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the withdrawn nomination, Gog the Mild had this to say:

"Er, the lead is what a reviewer usually reads last (and what as an editor I usually write last) as it is "a summary of [the article's] most important contents". I would need to read the whole, very long, article before I even started on the lead. And whatever I thought, as there seems to be agreement that the main article needs substantial changes, I would need to do it all again later.

A comment which may or may not be helpful. Usually when articles are split off from a "mother" article this results in a shortening of the mother, as only a summary and a reference to the "progeny article" is needed. So if the Cleopatra article were reduced by 3-4,000 words and these topped and tailed and moderately expanded to give a 5-6,000 word progeny you would meet much less resistance."

Seeing as you are the main writer and nominator of the Cleopatra article, I'd say this is your call to make. Unlimitedlead (talk) 20:17, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead @T8612 I have no special sentimental attachment to the early modern/baroque paintings, so some of them can be removed if reviewers find it necessary to relieve the article of clutter. In regards to Roller, Burstein, and Fletcher, they agree on most things as academics investigating the same major primary sources, so trimming "outlying opinions" is not a relevant approach in my view. I can understand trimming what seems like an extraneous or minor detail, or a small part of an event that is somewhat tangential to the biography of Cleopatra and the subject of her reign. From my perspective, I've already done that with the main Cleopatra article. The entire purpose of creating the Reign of Cleopatra sister article was to retain information about her reign that simply couldn't be included in the main article (which had to explore a dozen other related subjects like ancestry, literature and visual artworks). Also, this article isn't simply an expanded version of the "Biography" section in the main article. It also represents the "Cleopatra's kingdom and role as a monarch" section in the main article, which now only retains a small summary of the content found in Reign of Cleopatra. As for the overall length, it only slightly skirts the WP:SIZE recommendation and quite frankly isn't much bigger than any other biographical article that I've successfully nominated for Featured status, such as Augustus, Giovanni Villani, Zhang Heng, Shen Kuo, and Choe Bu. I would slightly entertain the suggestion to summarize major events like the Alexandrian War, Battle of Actium, and Donations of Alexandria, but to be honest I think it is a horrible and unwelcome idea to slash any of these topics down even by one fourth of their current size. Readers who have read the main Cleopatra article and wish to know more about the subject will visit the sibling article to find more details. I find it pointless to offer them roughly the same amount of details as the main article, while at the same time redirecting them to a half dozen other articles instead. I also find some of the complaints to be wildly contradictory, the suggestion that we slash content in the article due to size concerns while simultaneously moving most materials of the footnotes into the prose if they are so important. Some information simply belongs in a footnote and readers who desire to know a bit more about a specific topic can refer to the footnote. As noted elsewhere, some of these footnotes are about images or slightly tangential topics. I feel as though slashing the lead section by a third of its size is already an enormous compromise, since I had found it to be suitable after User:UnlimitedLead had already made sensible cuts prior to the nomination. Hobbling the article with massive unnecessary cuts to the main prose body pretty much defeats the purpose of having a sibling article in the first place. Pericles of Athens^Talk 13:59, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

@PericlesofAthens I absolutely agree. The amount of opposition to this article is frankly confusing to me. However, such concerns will likely be posed be future FA reviewers again. What should we do? Unlimitedlead (talk) 15:19, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't think it is worth complying with current FA standards if it means downgrading the article. I don't move the articles I've written to FAC because I don't want to be forced to remove content I think useful (typically primary sources and discussions related to them).

A remark: Apart from the last section, most of the article is related to Rome and Roman commanders, and we don't learn that much about her governing her kingdom (hence why we have repetitions with other articles). I suppose there are much less sources on the subject. One good way to start exploring could be the building projects mentioned in the 1st paragraph of the lede, but only discussed at the very end of the article. Chauveau, Michel (2000) could be worth reading, he is only cited 4 times. T8612 (talk) 01:09, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi, @T8612. Thank you for your comments. While I understand where you are coming from, all the events involving Rome/Roman commanders were all directly part of Cleopatra's reign. The article makes it explicitly clear that Cleopatra's reign was dominated by Roman interventionism. Such information is definitely relevant in an article about the reign of Cleopatra.
In addition, no other user has pointed out any issues with the content itself, just the sheer length of it. Unlimitedlead (talk) 01:56, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

@T8612 @Unlimitedlead Hi again! Sorry for the long delay, I try to stay away from Wikipedia as much as possible these days, as I am busy and don't want it occupying too much of my time these days. As for chipping away at details in the article and moving material to other articles, @Unlimitedlead I would only find this acceptable if you faithfully preserved all materials by shifting texts designated for removal to relevant sub-articles (Battle of Actium, Donations of Alexandria, etc.), and created a user page sandbox draft showing exactly what you intend the main Reign of Cleopatra article to look like after this hypothetical significant removal of content. Unfortunately, it is only for the sake of kowtowing and pleasing a few FAC reviewers who oddly enough do not understand that this article is already within acceptable size parameters per WP:SIZE. If you are absolutely determined to make this an FA article, then this is my one request. Please refer to my own sandbox pages for examples, or learn more at Wikipedia:About the sandbox. Cheers and good luck! Pericles of Athens^Talk 00:47, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

@PericlesofAthens Thank you for the advice. I've actually submitted the article for a peer review, so I'll see what everyone over there thinks about the article's length. I will work on it over the next few months, but unfortunately, I anticipate that it will take an absurdly long amount of time. I wish you all the best as you navigate through your hectic world outside of Wikipedia. See you around! Unlimitedlead (talk) 01:00, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Always precious

Ten years ago, you were found precious. That's what you are, always. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:41, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

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Cleopatra

Oh boy. Cleopatra. She's... a difficult topic to handle. I regret to inform you that I am unable to work on Reign of Cleopatra's FA nomination in 2023. By no means do I intend on quitting it. I'm not a quitter. However, with the WikiCup coming up, along with school, I don't think I can handle that big of a workload until 2024 at the earliest. Have yourself a wonderful holiday season, and I'll see you soon (or in two years, who knows)! Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:10, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead No worries! Thanks for all your hard work thus far. Best of luck with WikiCup and getting your degree! I have no doubts that I'll be seeing you around in 2024. Kind regards, Pericles of Athens^Talk 23:41, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Government of Macedonia (ancient kingdom)

Hi Pericles! Nine days ago, I said that our next collaboration would be in 2024. I lied. I was taking a look at Government of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) purely for the enjoyment of reading it, but one thing led to another, and I eventually ended up re-doing the entire citation system, along with a whole ton of other stuff. I really think you've done a wonderful job with it, and it's a shame that the FA nomination from four years ago barely received any reviews.

With that said, can I grasp your opinion on me making some additions to the article and co-nominating it for FA with you next year? It's completely alright if you are too busy for that, or don't feel comfortable with the idea; I just thought I'd throw it out there. Cheers, Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:51, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead Good sir, you are more than welcome to co-nominate the article with me next year. I would be honored! Given the previous review process, it is difficult to say if it would be successful or not, but it is certainly worth the try. Thanks for letting me know! I also chuckled at the "I lied" part, as it reminded me of a line by Arnold Schwarzenegger from that silly 1985 movie Commando. LOL. Take care, Pericles of Athens^Talk 22:06, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Personal inquiry

Hi Pericles. As you are likely not aware, this is my third post on your talk page within the past two weeks, but Confucius once said "third time's a charm" (no. no, he didn't). I just wanted to ask, if you're comfortable answering, about your semi-retirement. May I ask what spurred it? Will you ever return to Wikipedia full-time, or do you intend on fully retiring one day? Apologies for constantly being here, Unlimitedlead (talk) 03:53, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead Sure, I can answer that! Honestly, I simply do not have time to be on Wikipedia as much as I used to, and I have better things to do. I'd also rather not spend so much time here after contributing so much. I feel like I've played my part, pitched in, and shared enough of my time and effort considering how I'm one of those Wikipedians with the most amount of featured articles successfully nominated (22, but 25 if you count featured lists). I don't have anything to prove, and I'd rather spend my spare time playing guitar, reading, hiking, going out drinking with friends, visiting family, etc. Alternatively, I don't mind doing shared projects with you so long as you are motivated to lift things up to Featured status. To that I'll lift my glass and say thanks, cheers, and Happy New Years! ;) Pericles of Athens^Talk 15:58, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you kindly, and a happy new year to you as well! Unlimitedlead (talk) 16:06, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy New Year, PericlesofAthens!

Happy New Year!

PericlesofAthens,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Mann Mann (talk) 05:42, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

A million award for you!

	The Million Award
	For your contributions to bring Cleopatra (estimated annual readership: 55,882,835) to Featured Article status, I hereby present you the Million Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 07:57, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron Thank you kindly for this award and most thoughtful gesture. Your kind words are highly appreciated. I'm truly amazed at the number of views the Cleopatra article has received. I'd like to take credit somehow, but apparently it is due to a Samsung Android phone voice command feature that leads many of its users to the page as a suggestion. Either way, my work is reaching a huge audience! Always good to know. Cheers! Pericles of Athens^Talk 00:05, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

If you really think about, your work is technically being promoted by Samsung itself. That's not something many Wikipedians can boast of! Unlimitedlead (talk) 20:02, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead Hah! Good point and thanks for the perspective. I should have thought about it that way as well. Best of luck to you in your future projects for that matter. ;) Pericles of Athens^Talk 00:06, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Pericles! In fact, I have a certain article prepared for FA sometime next week. I'll be sure to co-nom you ;) Unlimitedlead (talk) 00:14, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Government of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) Promotion

Hello, Pericles. Rejoice, for today is a fine day indeed! Government of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) has finally been promoted to featured article status, and I would like to congratulate you on writing such a fine specimen of an article. Cheers to this article, and hopefully many more in the future. Take care, Unlimitedlead (talk) 21:21, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead Fantastic! Hurray and hurrah! We did it! Thanks mostly to you and your efforts with initiating the nomination process and seeing it through to its glorious end. Drink and celebrate! Savor this mentally and spiritually orgasmic moment, for it is akin to that feeling of being in the saddle straddling a steed at the Battle of Pelenor Fields, riding down fleeing Orcs with your cavalry charge and saving Minas Tirith. Spears shall be splintered! Shields shall be broken! A sword day! A red day! Ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride with me! Ride for FA article status and the world's ending! Pericles of Athens^Talk 21:36, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Government of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) scheduled for TFA

This is to let you know that the above article has been scheduled as today's featured article for 9 May 2023. Please check that the article needs no amendments. Feel free to amend the draft blurb, which can be found at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/May 9, 2023, or to make comments on other matters concerning the scheduling of this article at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/May 2023. I suggest that you watchlist Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors from the day before this appears on Main Page. Thanks and congratulations on your work. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:15, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

@Gog the Mild Thanks for letting me know! Cheers. Pericles of Athens^Talk 14:22, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Hurrah! It's finally there! Unlimitedlead (talk) 01:32, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

May songs

my story today

Thank you for the article, introduced: "Have you ever heard of March Madness? Well, it's 1 March (where I live; it's actually 2 March UTC Face-sad.svg) and prepare for a whole lot of madness! PericlesofAthens have been working on this article for a bit (kudos on him for building this article from the ground up and taking it through GA), and after a depressing FA nomination in 2018, we believe things will go smoother this time around. Read this article, and you'll discover that Alexander isn't the only great thing about Macedon..."! - I had a good story on coronation day: a Te Deum we sang that day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:45, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Another collaboration...

Greetings, dear Pericles! I trust that you are living life to its fullest with your loved ones! Once again, I would like to thank and congratulate you on a job well done; after some pondering, I was wondering if I could obtain your blessing to edit, revise, and expand Early life of Cleopatra with the end-goal of another co-nomination sometime this year. This is especially keeping in mind our ambitious long-term Reign of Cleopatra project (which I have not forgotten, by the way ). Once again, I do not expect you to come out of your retirement to do anything major, but I would like to get your approval before anything rash is done. Cheers, Pericles! Unlimitedlead (talk) 02:22, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead Sure thing, take a stab at it! You have my blessing, I trust your judgment. Once again, great job with with Government of Macedonian nomination. It would be my pleasure to see Early life of Cleopatra achieve FA status in a joint effort. Pericles of Athens^Talk 08:21, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Just to let you know, I have nominated the article for FA. Feel free to monitor its progress! Cheers, Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:28, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead Excellent! Thanks for letting me know. Pericles of Athens^Talk 23:41, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Cleopatra race article

Thanks for catching that little bit. Unfortunately Netflix is coming out with a docudrama claiming Cleopatra was "Black" with a Black actress, so we will probably be seeing a measure of vandalism on that page and main pages in the next couple months, from likely all corners of this asinine "debate". I will try to keep an eye out, although I am in grad school as of now! Hope you are very well! Kleopatra I Syra (talk) 20:25, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

You're very welcome! Good luck with classes, and I will also keep a look out for the page. All the best, Pericles of Athens^Talk 20:55, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

I wonder if it may be advisable to request a lock on the race article, as the main article has also? Kleopatra I Syra (talk) 20:29, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

@Kleopatraisyra Not a bad idea, I wouldn't be opposed if it starts to receive heavy amounts of edits from anonymous IPs with a seeming agenda rather than people concerned with cleaning up minor issues. Pericles of Athens^Talk 20:55, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

I put in a lock request. It is getting a bit out of hand at this point now.

Cheers! Kleopatra I Syra (talk) 21:49, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Barnstar!

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		"I've been active enough these days!" Indeed, Mr. Pericles. I would say that I rejoice at your "return" to Wikipedia, but you were never truly gone! I thank you kindly for all the advice and guidance you have given me. While I am glad to see you come out of your semi-retirement, please do not feel burdened or obligated to spend too much time here; go enjoy life! Have fun, go out for drinks with friends, go for a nice hike. But I am indeed very joyous to see you remove that blue banner! Cheers Pericles, Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:10, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate that! Thank you kindly. It is a pleasure to collaborate with you on those latest projects. I hope for even more in the future! Pericles of Athens^Talk 04:03, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Editor of the Week

		Editor of the Week
		Your ongoing efforts to improve the encyclopedia have not gone unnoticed: You have been selected as Editor of the Week in recognition of your great contributions! (courtesy of the Wikipedia Editor Retention Project)

User:Unlimitedlead submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:

I nominate PericlesofAthens to be Editor of the Week for his diligence in the creation of GA and FA content, as well as his kind soul. Though he has only recently emerged from semi-retirement, Mr. Pericles has been of great help to me; he frequently offers sage advice about content creation, and we have nominated several articles together. I consider him one of my first friends on Wikipedia, and corresponding with Pericles is always a joy. In his prime (on this website), he pushed out quality article after quality article and is one of the most individually influential and important editors the site has ever had. He set a high standard for high-importance Chinese topics, yet has brought also this quality to Parthian, Macedonian and Egyptian topics. He may be the only editor to have more than one VITAL-3 FA. It surprised me that he has not received the Editor of the Week award yet. Let us right this wrong. Seconded by User:Aza24 and User:AirshipJungleman29

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:

{{User:UBX/EoTWBox}}

Thanks again for your efforts! ―Buster7 ☎ 11:25, 9 September 2023 (UTC)