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[–][deleted]  (5 children)

[deleted]

    [–]gwerngwern.net[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    What method are you ingesting the potassium and how much?

    Potassium citrate powder dissolved in water; 2-4g daily or 50-100% of RDA.

    How many trials did you do? Small sample size?

    ~60 total. The result is extremely strong however you want to slice it, either significance or effect size, or do it, frequentist or Bayesian.

    Sorry if that info is on the site, its too large to find by skimming on am iphone.

    Well...

    That said, its rather unlikely potassium would be interfering with sleep.

    Based on what? I found next to no research examining the topic.

    The amount obtained from food is very low and exogenous potassium supplementation would be ill advised. Now if you are taking a drug such as Lasix (K+ wasting) or aldactone (K+ sparing) these may be able to alter your levels outside of normal ranges.

    See above.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]gwerngwern.net[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      K+ ingestion is unlikely to cause any alterations of sleep because your kidneys are highly efficient at regulating it.

      So? The body is highly efficient at regulating sugar, doesn't mean one can't get diabetes. The body is highly efficient at regulating water, doesn't mean one can't die of too much or too little water. The body is highly efficient at regulating vitamin D, didn't stop vitamin D in the evening from fucking with my sleep or vitamin D in the morning from improving my sleep. etc etc

      If it is affecting your sleep its entirely possible youre ingesting too much. Why are you supplementing K+ in the first place? Unless you have some pathology or participate in excessive exercise there is no reason to.

      As I wrote, my diet included no major sources of potassium and so I was getting nothing like the RDA of several grams (this was implied in my previous comment as well).

      [–]TDPWAX 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      The diabetes analogy is poor, type I is from an autoimmune disease, and type II is from excessive amounts causing down regulation of receptors to compensate for the excess of sugar. If anything Type II proves the efficacy of it, the only reason why we attempt to treat Type II is because it accelerates many other diseases due to the formation of AGEs.

      Vitamin D is also a poor choice because it's been abundant for most of human evolution until the dawn of agriculture which caused a shift of dietary habits which lack Vitamin D. This is why our skin turned light, to absorb as much sunlight as possible to help synthesize endogenous vitamin D.

      Lastly, it's rather difficult to suffer from over hydration, it tends to only happen in pathology, specifically psych patients whose medications induce psychogenic polydipsia.

      Why have you chosen to supplement potassium in the first place? There are a very limited number of reasons as to why you should take excess K+.

      Here's a case study of a patient who ingested K+ citrate. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17950945

      If you really think you are deficient I'd advise you to have your PCP order a BMP so you can view your K+ levels.

      Finally, if you are still dead set on taking the K+ I'd advise you to take some Na+ with it or take it slowly through out the day.

      [–]gwerngwern.net[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      The diabetes analogy is poor, type I is from an autoimmune disease, and type II is from excessive amounts causing down regulation of receptors to compensate for the excess of sugar. If anything Type II proves the efficacy of it, the only reason why we attempt to treat Type II is because it accelerates many other diseases due to the formation of AGEs.

      So it proves the efficacy... but it 'accelerates many other diseases'. Explain how this shows that the body is coping with the sugar adequately and we would expect no other side effects, because it looks to me like it's just proving my point.

      Vitamin D is also a poor choice because it's been abundant for most of human evolution until the dawn of agriculture which caused a shift of dietary habits which lack Vitamin D. This is why our skin turned light, to absorb as much sunlight as possible to help synthesize endogenous vitamin D.

      Not addressing the point.

      Lastly, it's rather difficult to suffer from over hydration, it tends to only happen in pathology, specifically psych patients whose medications induce psychogenic polydipsia.

      Yes, it's hard, but it can still happen despite water being probably the least harmful and most neutral thing you can consume ever. And both extremes point out my claim that the body doesn't necessarily cope with deficiencies or excesses perfectly, even if the body is efficient at handling moderate doses.

      Why have you chosen to supplement potassium in the first place? There are a very limited number of reasons as to why you should take excess K+...Finally, if you are still dead set on taking the K+ I'd advise you to take some Na+ with it or take it slowly through out the day.

      Is no one reading what I'm writing? What the hell? I wrote everything up! I addressed both of those points in my original submission, and have also done so in my other comments.

      [–]kevin143 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I'd suggest lowering dosage, drinking more water, and supplementing full spectrum electrolytes, particularly magnesium. http://www.amazon.com/000-Volts-Electrolyte-Concentrate-fl-oz/dp/B004EMG8LA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356073399&sr=8-1&keywords=40000+volts is my favorite off the shelf one.

      You could also test if potassium gluconate and potassium chloride have similar effects.

      [–]gwerngwern.net[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Yeah, I plan to try magnesium at some point since a great many people claim it helps sleep.

      You could also test if potassium gluconate and potassium chloride have similar effects.

      Meh. Not going to bother, any more than with a blinded morning followup: I don't see why potassium citrate would make the difference and gluconate or chloride suddenly better. They're all metabolized to potassium, no?

      [–]sd002002 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It may be that the conjugate, or the combination of the conjugate with potassium is effecting your sleep. In my case zinc citrate at night helps me sleep. I've tried other forms of zinc, and other forms of citrates, and they have no effect. Only zinc citrate helps.

      [–]gwerngwern.net[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Update: http://gwern.net/Zeo#potassium-morning-use

      I standardized a smaller dose, blinded consumption, and took it immediately upon awakening. The negative effect was much smaller (as expected) but there was still no apparent benefit.

      [–]1WithTheUniverse 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      I speculate I might have this hypokalemic sensory overstimulation, ADHD like condition, that can improve with potassium supplementation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18174562 It or some other odd ion channelopathies might explain your odd response to potassium.

      [–]kevin143 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Oh, that's interesting, could also explain my potassium sensitivity.

      [–]gwerngwern.net[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      That condition doesn't sound like me, FWIW.

      It or some other odd ion channelopathies might explain your odd response to potassium.

      Or maybe sleep disturbance is the norm for large doses of potassium? Not many people discuss it, after all.

      [–]1WithTheUniverse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      True and 98% of Americans do not even get the RDA of potassium. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVS2uoL74vQ

      [–]Synzael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I found potassium gluconate in high doses highly stimulating