John C. Wright (johncwright) wrote,
John C. Wright

Total Conversion

Someone asked me to reprint my earlier account of my conversion experience. Here it is, with one word of explanation: I eavesdropped on a list where some atheists were discussing this account, and their comments fell into two camps. The first dismissed it with scorn out of hand, without making any attempt whatever to understand or explain it. There is, unfortunately, a certain type of atheist who treats atheism as a religion; they regard questioning the Truth of atheism not as a sign of curiosity and intellectual energy but as a sign of heresy and apostasy.

The second, a decided minority, attempted to address the event point by point, as if I were making an argument or presenting evidence. Naturally, they found my writing unpersuasive, but they did not seem to grasp what they were reading was not  persuasive writing, but an autobiographical recitation of events. In other words, if you read an autobiography where a man says, for example, "At age 14 I read Ayn Rand and became a committed Objectivist" it is not logical to say in reply, "Your argument is argument from authority and ergo not valid" -- because obviously the writer is not telling you that YOU should become an Objectivist because he read Ayn Rand at 14 and was persuaded. He is merely reporting the circumstances under which he was persuaded by an argument not told to the reader.

Here is the account:

My conversion was in two parts: a natural part and a supernatural part.

Here is the natural part: first, over a period of two years my hatred toward Christianity eroded due to my philosophical inquiries.

Rest assured, I take the logical process of philosophy very seriously, and I am impatient with anyone who is not a rigorous and trained thinker. Reason is the tool men use to determine if their statements about reality are valid: there is no other. Those who do not or cannot reason are little better than slaves, because their lives are controlled by the ideas of other men, ideas they have not examined.

To my surprise and alarm, I found that, step by step, logic drove me to conclusions no modern philosophy shared, but only this ancient and (as I saw it then) corrupt and superstitious foolery called the Church. Each time I followed the argument fearlessly where it lead, it kept leading me, one remorseless rational step at a time, to a position the Church had been maintaining for more than a thousand years. That haunted me.

Second, I began to notice how shallow, either simply optimistic or simply pessimistic, other philosophies and views of life were.

The public conduct of my fellow atheists was so lacking in sobriety and gravity that I began to wonder why, if we atheists had a hammerlock on truth, so much of what we said was pointless or naive. I remember listening to a fellow atheist telling me how wonderful the world would be once religion was swept into the dustbin of history, and I realized the chap knew nothing about history. If atheism and atheism alone solved all human woe, then the Soviet Union would have been an empire of joy and dancing bunnies, instead of the land of corpses.

I would listen to my fellow atheists, and they would sound as innocent of any notion of what real human life was like as the Man from Mars who has never met human beings or even heard clear rumors of them. Then I would read something written by Christian men of letters, Tolkien, Lewis, or G.K. Chesterton, and see a solid understanding of the joys and woes of human life. They were mature men.

I would look at the rigorous logic of St. Thomas Aquinas, the complexity and thoroughness of his reasoning, and compare that to the scattered and mentally incoherent sentimentality of some poseur like Nietzsche or Sartre. I can tell the difference between a rigorous argument and shrill psychological flatulence. I can see the difference between a dwarf and a giant.

My wife is a Christian and is extraordinary patient, logical, and philosophical. For years I would challenge and condemn her beliefs, battering the structure of her conclusions with every argument, analogy, and evidence I could bring to bear. I am a very argumentative man, and I am as fell and subtle as a serpent in debate. All my arts failed against her. At last I was forced to conclude that, like non-Euclidian geometry, her world-view logically followed from its axioms (although the axioms were radically mystical, and I rejected them with contempt). Her persistence compared favorably to the behavior of my fellow atheists, most of whom cannot utter any argument more mentally alert than a silly ad Hominem attack. Once again, I saw that I was confronting a mature and serious world-view, not merely a tissue of fables and superstitions.

Third, a friend of mine asked me what evidence, if any, would be sufficient to convince me that the supernatural existed. This question stumped me. My philosophy at the time excluded the contemplation of the supernatural axiomatically: by definition (my definition) even the word "super-natural" was a contradiction in terms. Logic then said that, if my conclusions were definitional, they were circular. I was assuming the conclusion of the subject matter in dispute.

Now, my philosophy at the time was as rigorous and exact as 35 years of study could make it (I started philosophy when I was seven). This meant there was no point for reasonable doubt in the foundational structure of my axioms, definitions, and common notions. This meant that, logically, even if God existed, and manifested Himself to me, my philosophy would force me to reject the evidence of my senses, and dismiss any manifestations as a coincidence, hallucination, or dream. Under this hypothetical, my philosophy would force me to an exactly wrong conclusion due to structural errors of assumption.

A philosopher (and I mean a serious and manly philosopher, not a sophomoric boy) does not use philosophy to flinch away from truth or hide from it. A philosophy composed of structural false-to-facts assumptions is insupportable.

A philosopher goes where the truth leads, and has no patience with mere emotion.

But it was impossible, logically impossible, that I should ever believe in such nonsense as to believe in the supernatural. It would be a miracle to get me to believe in miracles.

So I prayed. "Dear God, I know (because I can prove it with the certainty that a geometer can prove opposite angles are equal) that you do not exist. Nonetheless, as a scholar, I am forced to entertain the hypothetical possibility that I am mistaken. So just in case I am mistaken, please reveal yourself to me in some fashion that will prove your case. If you do not answer, I can safely assume that either you do not care whether I believe in you, or that you have no power to produce evidence to persuade me. The former argues you not beneficent, the latter not omnipotent: in either case unworthy of worship. If you do not exist, this prayer is merely words in the air, and I lose nothing but a bit of my dignity. Thanking you in advance for your kind cooperation in this matter, John Wright."

I had a heart attack two days later. God obviously has a sense of humor as well as a sense of timing.

Now for the supernatural part.

My wife called someone from her Church, which is a denomination that practices healing through prayer. My wife read a passage from their writings, and the pain vanished. If this was a coincidence, then, by God, I could use more coincidences like that in my life.

Feeling fit, I nonetheless went to the hospital, so find out what had happened to me. The diagnosis was grave, and a quintuple bypass heart surgery was ordered. So I was in the hospital for a few days.

Those were the happiest days of my life. A sense of peace and confidence, a peace that passes all understanding, like a field of energy entered my body. I grew aware of a spiritual dimension of reality of which I had hitherto been unaware. It was like a man born blind suddenly receiving sight.

The Truth to which my lifetime as a philosopher had been devoted turned out to be a living thing. It turned and looked at me. Something from beyond the reach of time and space, more fundamental than reality, reached across the universe and broke into my soul and changed me. This was not a case of defense and prosecution laying out evidence for my reason to pick through: I was altered down to the root of my being.

It was like falling in love. If you have not been in love, I cannot explain it. If you have, you will raise a glass with me in toast.

Naturally, I was overjoyed. First, I discovered that the death sentence under which all life suffers no longer applied to me. The governor, so to speak, had phoned. Second, imagine how puffed up with pride you'd be to find out you were the son of Caesar, and all the empire would be yours. How much more, then, to find out you were the child of God?

I was also able to perform, for the first time in my life, the act which I had studied philosophy all my life to perform, which is, to put aside all fear of death. The Roman Stoics, whom I so admire, speak volumes about this philosophical fortitude. But their lessons could not teach me this virtue. The blessing of the Holy Spirit could and did impart it to me, as a gift. So the thing I've been seeking my whole life was now mine.

Then, just to make sure I was flooded with evidence, I received three visions like Scrooge being visited by three ghosts. I was not drugged or semiconscious, I was perfectly alert and in my right wits.

It was not a dream. I have had dreams every night of my life. I know what a dream is. It was not a hallucination. I know someone who suffers from hallucinations, and I know the signs. Those signs were not present here.

Then, just to make even more sure that I was flooded with overwhelming evidence, I had a religious experience. This is separate from the visions, and took place several days after my release from the hospital, when my health was moderately well. I was not taking any pain-killers, by the way, because I found that prayer could banish pain in moments.

During this experience, I became aware of the origin of all thought, the underlying oneness of the universe, the nature of time: the paradox of determinism and free will was resolved for me. I saw and experienced part of the workings of a mind infinitely superior to mine, a mind able to count every atom in the universe, filled with paternal love and jovial good humor. The cosmos created by the thought of this mind was as intricate as a symphony, with themes and reflections repeating themselves forward and backward through time: prophecy is the awareness that a current theme is the foreshadowing of the same theme destined to emerge with greater clarity later. A prophet is one who is in tune, so to speak, with the music of the cosmos.

The illusionary nature of pain, and the logical impossibility of death, were part of the things I was shown.

Now, as far as these experiences go, they are not unique. They are not even unusual. More people have had religious experiences than have seen the far side of the moon. Dogmas disagree, but mystics are strangely (I am tempted to say mystically) in agreement.

The things I was shown have echoes both in pagan and Christian tradition, both Eastern and Western (although, with apologies to my pagan friends, I see that Christianity is the clearest expression of these themes, and also has a logical and ethical character other religious expressions lack).

Further, the world view implied by taking this vision seriously (1) gives supernatural sanction to conclusions only painfully reached by logic (2) supports and justifies a mature rather than simplistic world-view (3) fits in with the majority traditions not merely of the West, but also, in a limited way, with the East.

As a side issue, the solution of various philosophical conundrums, like the problem of the one and the many, mind-body duality, determinism and indeterminism, and so on, is an added benefit. If you are familiar with such things, I follow the panentheist idealism of Bishop Berkeley; and, no, Mr. Johnson does not refute him merely by kicking a stone.

From that time to this, I have had prayers answered and seen miracles: each individually could be explained away as a coincidence by a skeptic, but not taken as a whole. From that time to this, I continue to be aware of the Holy Spirit within me, like feeling a heartbeat. It is a primary impression coming not through the medium of the senses: an intuitive axiom, like the knowledge of one's own self-being.

This, then, is the final answer to the question of why I should not doubt it: it would not be rational for me to doubt something of which I am aware on a primary and fundamental level.

Occam's razor cuts out hallucination or dream as a likely explanation for my experiences. In order to fit these experiences into an atheist framework, I would have to resort to endless ad hoc explanations: this lacks the elegance of geometers and parsimony of philosophers.

I would also have to assume all the great thinkers of history were fools. While I was perfectly content to support this belief back in my atheist days, this is a flattering conceit difficult to maintain seriously.

On a pragmatic level, I am somewhat more useful to my fellow man than before, and certainly more charitable. If it is a daydream, why wake me up? My neighbors will not thank you if I stop believing in the mystical brotherhood of man.

Besides, the atheist non-god is not going to send me to non-hell for my lapse of non-faith if it should turn out that I am mistaken.
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However you make comments at various points asserting the reality of the experence, (i.e. you were not on drugs etc) You assert that that God is real, etc and thus are (argueably) making an argument. While this was almost certainly not your intenion some considered it as an argument. And even if they realized you were not attempting to convince anyone, they may have wished to respond anyway.


Demand to call it an argument as you like, but the proverbial ball is in the atheist's camp; the atheist must come up with a reasonable argument for a lack of God or gods (Not necessarily the Judeo-Christian God, but any god in general, although the former is constantly dismissed either by frothing mouth or haughtiness.). By trying to argue that it's the theist's job in proof, it's about time an atheist dips his toe into disproof.

Mr. Wright is hardly making an argument; he is only speaking from experience about his conversion from atheism to Christianity.

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Crucify him!

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Say What

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headnoises

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Say what?

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headnoises

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How do you prove a negative?

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Good for you! part 1

singeman

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Good for you! part 2

singeman

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Anonymous

September 11 2007, 21:45:58 UTC 12 years ago

The philosophy being compatible for you, I can understand but I can't see a rational reason to embrace theism except for your personal mystical experience.

It is one thing to be compatible with the philosophy but another thing to align oneself with the seeming divinity of a particular sacred text from the middle east, edited by committee, a belief in an entity outside the universe, and the belief that a particular man, who may or may not have existed, is somehow the offspring of this entity.

Without your personal mystical revelation, why would anyone be convinced to become a Christian as opposed to a Jew, a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Wiccan, etc.?

Personally, religions based on praxis and not requiring an explicit belief in theism make more rational sense than believing in a deity without any actual evidence for it. Faith is overrated in this day and age. too much blood has been spent in the name of Jesus, Allah, or what-have-you by Jihads, Crusades, or Inquisitions.

The fact that you align yourself with an entity like the Catholic Church, a political and morally bankrupt institution over most of its history makes this even more of a stretch.
The philosophical arguments in favor of the God of the Philosophers, such as Plato's Good or Aristotles Unmoved Mover are said not to have withstood the criticism of philosophers since the time of Kant and Hume.

Unfortunately, these arguments are neither as strong as their partisans claim, nor as weak as their detractors claim. Most philosophical arguments are only about as persuasive as, for example, the argument for or against the death penalty, or the argument for or against a flat tax. However, oddly enough, no one goes around claiming the arguments against the death penalty or the flat tax have been soundly and entirely debunked by modern science, and that rigorous investigation does not support them.

The standard for rigor for religious arguments is merely ratcheted up until one finds a standard where the argument fails. If the standard is kept at a reasonable level, an argument like the Argument from Design does not seem any more or less likely or wise than the synthetic a priori arguments for Cause and Effect.

Since Hume did not believe in cause and effect, and since Kant did not believe in synthetic a priori reasoning, even though no human mind can operate without making these assumptions, I am more skeptical than most modern students of philosophy on the question of whether philosophy has settled the Argument from Design.

The rational reason to embrace theism is that the account makes more sense than the account, equally an act of faith, that life has no objective morality, beauty, point or purpose.

Empirical reason cannot tell me from whence comes the inspirations that strike an artist. Where does genius come from? From a particular collection of atoms in the brain? How does thought arise from non-thought? Materialism can only offer a plethora of ad hoc explanations admitting of no Popplerian dis-provability. They are convincing only to True Believers in disbelief.

Reason properly understood means learning how to live as befits a philosopher, which means, with virtue and magnanimity, indifferent to suffering, loyal to the truth, as courageous in intellectual matters as a soldier is in the matters of war. Religious inspiration allows even wretched souls to achieve this goal.

Time does not permit me to more than touch on your questions topics in passing: Christianity is philosophically more advanced than her rivals (with the exception of Buddhism) because it incorporates Greco-Romantic culture, including notions of individualism and law. Neopaganism has nothing to do with real paganism, and lacks a dogma. Islam is a crude Jewish heresy, less advanced than Judaism.

The blood spilled in the name of Jesus was spilled against his explicit command: and more, far more, has been spilled by the modern secular Darwinist views of the world, Nazism and Communism, which form the only coherent alternative to Christianity. (Modern secularism is not coherent: it has no metaphysics, ontology, or system of ethics. It is not an alternative.) Even so, it an ad Hominem to argue that Christianity must not be right because Christians are sinners. Christians are the ones who argue that men are sinners. Your slam against the Catholic Church is simply irrelevant. If you are talking up arms on the side of reason, avoid informal logical errors.


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Consequentialism

johncwright

12 years ago

Oddly enough, without the personal Divine Visitations and Visions, your experience in many ways mirrors my own. Especially:

"From that time to this, I have had prayers answered and seen miracles: each individually could be explained away as a coincidence by a skeptic, but not taken as a whole. From that time to this, I continue to be aware of the Holy Spirit within me, like feeling a heartbeat. It is a primary impression coming not through the medium of the senses: an intuitive axiom, like the knowledge of one's own self-being."

I will say that one of the reasons I chose to try recognizing God was that I saw those prayers and miracles in other peoples lives first. And having been profoundly unhappy at that point in my life I didn't think I had anything to lose by at least trying to believe in God. So I did this, but did not have any bolt from above or miracles that I recognized at the time, rather what happened was that between 6 months to a year later I could see the hand of God guiding me in my life and taking care of me even when I didn't know I needed taking care of. That point was about 25 years ago, and what was blind faith back then has turned into a more confirmed faith today. I still acknowledge the presence of doubt, but I have had enough experience now that it is never a true obstacle between me and my Creator. And when I take care and time to listen for it, the presence of what you might call the Holy Spirit sings and thrums and vibrates through me like a high-voltage power line. The body electric indeed.
Gryphmon, that is very well said and very beautifully said.

You have accused me of hating you, of being a bigot against you, of disapproving of you.... and I just don't see how you can believe that of me. When you write something as moving and profound as these sentences you write above, how could I, or any man of good will, hate someone who has experienced such things, or who says such things? To me, it sounds like we are brothers.

Brother, I am sorry if offend. I do not mean to offend.
Forgive me, because I have only become aware of your writings and this blog recently, but when did your conversion occur?

I do remember making a similar call for a clear, unmistakable sign from god, and this was before I became an atheist. Although, I acknowledge that simply asking the question is a sign of imperfect faith. I have yet to receive such a sign, though I have tried to keep my ears open.

Indeed, as I grew and discussed religion and theology with others, I amended my position to one that I suppose should be called agnostic, though I have never heard the term applied to my particular opinion on the matter:

-that the concept of an omnipotent being carries certain logical contradictions.
-that a single contradiction shatters the whole structure of logic.
-that therefore no statement about the nature of an omnipotent being can be supported by logic.
-that therefore all statements about the nature of an omnipotent being carry equal weight.

In other words, I cannot be sure that god won't damn all the Christians to hell and save all the atheists to heaven. Decartes rejected the principle of an omnipotent deceiver, but such a concept struck me as no less likely than an honest god.

It is also one of those curious axioms as to whether to view the world as a series of discrete things or as a continuum. Perhaps this is most key to the epistomology of a religious person versus an atheist.

And lastly, I most heartily agree with you on the arrogance and sophistry of the majority of atheists. Nine of ten, I would not deign to eat at the same table with. There is a major philosophical problem with organizing your life around a negative.
"-that the concept of an omnipotent being carries certain logical contradictions."

I'm not certain which you're speaking of in particular, but I (and from what I read, most theologians) got over the concept of an omnipotent deity being unable to do the logically impossible awhile ago. Omnipotence limited to what is logically possible is still omnipotence.

Either way, I've never been able to follow that 'If this understanding of omnipotence is logically impossible, then God doesn't exist' line of reasoning. To me it's, 'If this understanding of omnipotence is logically impossible, the understanding must be amended, and this has no bearing on God existing or not.'

It reminds me of the arguments that descriptions of God are either incomplete or incoherent, therefore there's no believing in God. Which sounded interesting to me, until I realized that thanks to thought, consciousness, and the general process of living, you can slap that same label on humans with nearly equal force.

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johncwright

12 years ago

It would be valuable to have the great convergence of philosophies and the great resolution of philosophical conundrums spelled out verbally. Is it something that can be expressed linguistically, or is it a more immediate intuition that defies expression? If linguistic, I would think you have been given a great responsibility, namely, to solve these issues once and for all. And I would hope that you would take it as something you owed to the world.

I don't mean here, of course.
This is a good question, and I hope it doesn't get ignored.

I have a good friend who was visited by La Chinita, the narrow-eyed peculiarly Venezuelan manifestation of The Virgin. He records it with all the epistemic privilege with which one can describe such a thing: he is a well-respected thinker and published philosopher. His account is comparable to the one above. But he found himself somewhat frustrated by it. If the virgin Mary had appeared to him, if it wasn't frontal lobe epilepsy or psychosis or bad papaya juice, what exactly was he therefore called on to do?

It seemed to him that very little was actually answered by the experience. THAT the virgin Mary appeared to him was astounding, of course, but beyond that, what did it mean? It didn't resolve fundamental issues such as whether justification is by faith alone or through good works; whether one ought to keep kosher if one is a Christian; or whether the revelation through the gospels is complete, or if there is an ongoing revelation manifest in the world. Having been granted the gift of the vision, he found that he could really explain no more and no less than he could before.

On the other hand I had a college roommate who, under the influence of peyote, had an epistemically privileged sense that monism was true, i.e., that "all is one." But, once no longer tripping, he was unable to express the grounds of his certainty. It was an "intuition," which was, of course, not (in this case) to be taken seriously. But how valuable it would have been if he could have shared his insight with others. If, in fact, monism were true.

Re: The end of philosophy?

Anonymous

12 years ago

Re: The end of philosophy?

Anonymous

12 years ago

Dear Mr. Wright,

What advice would you have for someone who has recently discovered that Christianity makes sense after all, (i.e., that, as GKC said, it is a key that fits perfectly) but is unsure how to make the leap from intellectual acceptance of Christian dogma to complete personal faith, (that which the Pope describes as "the personal encounter with Christ") ?

Thank you.
I realize I'm not Mr. Wright, but kindly consider seeing if a local church that you would feel comfortable attending participates in the Upper Room's Chrysalis program for young people.
The one for oldsters (Walk to Emmaus) worked for me, transforming vague, wishful faith to a solid and joyful experience of Faith.
http://www.upperroom.org/programs/

Re: Advice for a confused youngster?

Anonymous

12 years ago

I will beg John's forgiveness if I cause any consternation or inadvertent offense in my observations. While I am sure that John's wife would be a much better witness to his conversion, I too, witnessed it or a moment of it and would like to give my account. Perhaps there may be some value to this. If not, it would not be the first time I have bored my audience with observations and personal opinions.

I have known John since I was in college, and he in law school. We have always known each other as 'friends of friends', so I cannot claim any close connection or special insight.

John's description of himself as "argumentative" is so apt that it makes me chortle in appreciation. John, in my observation has always taken great joy and delight in argument of ideas, be they philosophical, spiritual, political or economic. Those subjects in which he has little interest, in general receive benign neglect or are politely dismissed. On the rare occasion that I have cornered John in a logical fallacy, he will, in the passion of argument become "fell and subtle", meaning he will quickly erect a straw-man (indirectly involved to the argument) and proceed to logically destroy it with vigor. To his credit, upon next speaking with him, John has abandoned the idea or reasoning that proved to have shown a logical fallacy.

His pen-ultimate virtue however is NOT his dedication to logic, but his ability to laugh at himself which, to me, is what has always made his love of argument palatable.

Nor is it his ultimate virtue. That belongs to the good sense that he had in the selection of his wife, who IS patient, kind, and intelligent, and the obvious love that they share.

Enough background: here is my account of his conversion.

I was told by a mutual friend that John had suffered a heart attack and was awaiting surgery on the morrow. As I worked as a nurse at the hospital where he was a patient, I drove in after hours that evening to see him in the ICU. John was much more quiet than normal, and did not appear to be in any physical distress. In our conversation he said that he had been praying and found comfort in this. With a wry tone, he added that there was no comfort to be found in atheism. He then asked me (as he knew I had been raised Catholic) if I would teach him the Hail, Mary. I wrote it down, and he thanked me for it and I left under the not-so-subtle stern body language of his nurse, as John had surgery on the morrow.

The next day, I went to visit briefly with his wife while John had surgery. She was confident, kind, and patient as usual certain that he was in good hands and would be well.

The following days, John was recovering quickly and we discussed some of his thoughts on ideas for a future novel. I do not recall the specifics except suggesting the name of 'Eve' for a character.

Personally, I cannot say that I was shocked by John's conversion. It was certainly an abrupt and sudden change. So abrupt and sudden as to possibly be considered a "miracle" in itself given the ardor with which he decried the existence of God while I would talk to him in college. This lack of shock more likely reflects the acceptance of people for who they are personally and not as they 'should' be. A product I believe of my general embrace of relativism (with a lower-case 'R') over Rationalism (with an upper-case 'R'). I say this because it has always appeared to be a point of consternation to John during our arguments, my non-concern over the occasional logical paradox. (I am smiling here.)

It appears to me that John has had a mystical religious experience resulting in a change in his world view. Overall, I believe to his betterment.
I will offer him these observations:

Knowing you, I would not expect abandonment of logic. Your conversion, however is due to a mystic experience. Yes, you had some preparation previously by a logical softening of your enmity of theists, but had you not had your heart attack and mystical revelations, this would have been incomplete. How then, do you apply logic to an understanding based on mysticism? And if it is logic based on first principles derived from your mystic experience, how can meaningful discourse through logic be had with those who do not share those first principles?

May I suggest in my own 'fell and subtle' way, that perhaps your conversion has much more to do with my own world-muse -- Love? Love is the basis of the teachings of Christ. Perhaps it was love of your wife, and her patience, (perhaps acquired in whole or in part to her own faith) that influenced your course towards your initial prayer, and following your epiphany, your own mystical experience. Logic has its place and value, but without love, the Roman Stoics are in a way as much as a poseur (although less irritating) as Satre. If hell is other people, why do you insist on talking to me? Likewise, what point logic without love?

Reason alone is a cold life, and those who know love cannot explain why reason alone is eminently silly. It must be felt, and toasted, much as your own mystical experience cannot be understood, only felt, and celebrated.

Enough of my prattle. Blessings to you and yours.
The questions are well asked:

1. How then, do you apply logic to an understanding based on mysticism?

Flying to my dictionary, I see that mysticism is "a doctrine of an immediate spiritual intuition of truths transcending ordinary understanding, or of a direct, intimate union of the soul with God through contemplation or ecstasy."

If so, whatever truths, once intuited by mysticism, are true, they then fall into the realm of logic. Theology is the science of applying logic to mystical truths.

Naturally, those truths that are beyond human comprehension, if they have implications beyond comprehension, cannot be reasoned about. Children can trust their father without understanding what his years of learning and experience have taught him, but they cannot reason with him about topics beyond their depth.

2. And if it is logic based on first principles derived from your mystic experience, how can meaningful discourse through logic be had with those who do not share those first principles?

Those who do not share my axioms can discuss it with me ex hypotheosi, but, like all discussions where there are not axioms in common, the discussion is for the sake of discovering inconsistencies in the argument, not for the sake of persuading.

3. If hell is other people, why do you insist on talking to me?

I don't understand the question. I always assumed Hell was Sartre's Philosophy.

4. Likewise, what point logic without love?

Again, I am not sure I understand the question. The point of logic is to discover consistencies and inconsistencies in statements about reality. The point of love is love.

5. Reason alone is a cold life, and those who know love cannot explain why reason alone is eminently silly.

Silly compared to what? If you say a thing, and straightaway contradict yourself, this is the very definition of silliness. Without logic, one cannot explain anything, not even logic, either to oneself or to anyone.

I do completely agree that reason without a proper wisdom leads men into follow. The word 'intellectual' was coined to describe me, and people like me, who draw out the logical implications of an isolated idea, without comparing the results to practical wisdom or the experience of mankind. That is why a distaste for tradition is fatal to the life of the intellect: wisdom acts as a brake on reason.

What my friend is not saying is that the so-called straw men arguments I would demolish of his were logical implications of his arguments that he did not see, or did not care to see. He has a good heart, though, so I would not be a rough with him these days as I once had been.

He was always patient and a good sport when I would crush him in debate. I am still grateful that he told me the Hail Mary in the hospital. That was very important to me, and still is. Unlike me, he is actually a nice guy, kind of heart.






Anonymous

September 17 2007, 15:45:43 UTC 12 years ago

Mr. Wright,

Thank you for writing such an interesting and enjoyable story. I am also a Christian, but your story challenges some of my beliefs. I sense in you a kindred spirit of logic and mysticism. So I wanted to get you take on some things. I shall endeavor to be elegant.

It seems to me that many of the things you experienced, or I should say your explanations of many of the things you experienced, contract the notion of a omniscient and omnipotent God. If God knows all things and is all powerful, then it follows that he created the universe precisely how he wanted it. He would not make a mistake or lack the power to achieve his will. Therefore, one should not expect God to abrogate these rules.

There is one exception. Sometimes it may be necessary to violate the laws of nature in order to demonstrate that God is the master of these rules. For example, miracles, in the sense of events that violate the laws of physics, are actually pretty rare in the Bible. Moses, Elijah, and Jesus performed to my estimate at least 95 percent of the miracles in the Bible. I think it is telling that even the miracles tend to echo the laws of physics. When Jesus fed the 5,000, he took some food and then sowed it among the crowed, and then he reaped a harvest of return. The Lord created the laws of physics. Einstein said that he loved studying physics because, thereby, he learned the mind of God. Why would God routinely violate his own rules?

So my reason tells me that we can pray and the Lord always answers prayer, but the answer may be "no." For example, You appear to believe in faith healing, but the Apostle Paul was unable to heal his "thorn of the flesh" through prayer. Consider the story of Job.

I am curious what your thoughts are on this.
I believe in faith healing for empirical reasons: I saw it in action. I was healed by prayer.

That said, I also believe God is the God of nature as well as the God of the Supernatural. A miracle, properly so called, is merely a sign or a message. Childbirth is a miracle, even though it proceeds by natural causes (except in a rare case like Sarah or the Virgin Mary, I suppose). When my willpower causes my brain to move my hand to snap my fingers, that is also a miracle: each nerve and muscle moved according to a natural cause, but who can explain the impulse that made me snap my fingers? Only in reference to those things that have no mechanical explanation -- questions of "why" and "for what purpose" -- can be used to explain human action.

I imagine the universe to be in the hand of God. Everything in it can operate according to His fixed purposes as it suits Him: if an impressive abrogation of what humans think the laws of nature are is called for, that is not beyond His power either.

I should mention I am sometimes puzzled those who say the scientific world view does not admit the possibility of miracles. (These are often the same people who believe the Big Bang occurred out of nothing and for no reason). In fact, all science says is that miracles cannot be repeated and predicted. This looks to me like it has the opposite meaning: It is not a limit on the power of God, it is a limit on the utility and wisdom of science.

I think the story of Job is a story of faith healing. Job is afflicted with every ill life on earth can bring to bear. All the while when he puzzles over the justice and injustice of life, he continues to suffer. When he sees God in the world wind, and contemplates the majesty of God's creation, his thought turns away from himself and turns toward God. Life on earth loses all power over him. God's answers do not satisfy Job's reason, but they do comfort his heart: and that comfort cures him of all he has lost. This turn from self-centered belief to God-centered belief I take to be the central component of what healing through prayer is all about.

God scorns the answers Job's false friends gave him -- for they were urging him to accept blame when he was blameless. They were telling him, in effect, that life on earth is fair, and that the just are one and the same as the rich and powerful: as if misfortune were God's judgment on sinner, when misfortune is notoriously blind and random, or, in Job's case, done at the malice of the accuser of mankind. Satan accuses Job of being faithful only because of the material reward and only for the sake of a material reward: which is the same as not being faithful at all.

Re: Job

Anonymous

12 years ago

Re: Job

johncwright

12 years ago

I greatly enjoyed reading your entry. Although we are of different faiths (or paradigms, LOL, yes just finished up Titans of Chaos) your experiences were a stunning parallel to my own while looking for and eventually finding my religious/ spiritual center.

I feel, like the characters in the story, that we all come touch the divine/ deity/ etc according to the way that resonates most deeply with us and one person's paradigm will not necessarily work for another's and it is ultimately through cooperation we will create something worthwhile in this world. (yes, I am a complete sci-fi nerd reading much into things that may or may not be there to begin with).

In the spirit of cooperation between the paradigms, I have a request. I'd like to put a bit of this entry as a quote in my Book of Shadows. For one thing it articulates more eloquently than I could the wonderful feeling of coming home to faith. For another it will serve as a reminder to me that the mystical experience is a universal one and should be celebrated and respected no matter which particular brand of faith one holds to. If more people felt this amazing feeling of awe and wonder the world would be infinately better.

Many thanks for providing hours of wonderful reading that tickled my imagination as well as inspired my mind.

"I'd like to put a bit of this entry as a quote in my Book of Shadows"

Quote away. I would be honored.