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Old 2012-02-09, 13:42   Link #387
Renall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Actually, does Genji ever refer to himself as furniture outside of fantasy scenes the way Yasu does? You could make the argument that it's just a fantasy elaboration.
Genji almost never says anything about himself. He's a damn cipher. There's a lot you want to know about a man like that, and the fantasy is all we have to go on. In cases like this, I want to solve the riddle of the man, and figure out the cause of his devotion, his feelings that he's suppressed, his thoughts and attitudes, why he's so unswervingly loyal to Kinzo and (later) Yasu. Why why why why? I want to know this!

My priorities apparently differ strongly from the author's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
i guess WTC3 attracted too many people that were interested in the mystery aspect and only viewed the fantasy aspect as a sideshow. WTC4 has become too Meta-oriented and the only real logic puzzles were EP5 and EP8's mystery gameboard. EP6 had only 2 mysteries to be solved and beside that it was more of a nice fantasy story.

But then of course people get dissappointed, when they get EP7 as an "answer arc", but EP8 has only very few answers, or even creates more questions. I just think that there is always the expectation, that they can check, if their theories are right, or wrong and which is USUALLY at the end of the book/game/vn, but this just doesn't apply to Umineko, so the "fans" got angry.

Ryu said himself in the interview that he wanted to make harder mysteries and also concentrate more on them, but then, so he said, he realized that most of his readers were not knowledgable of mysteries and so he switched more to fantasy.
I wouldn't presume to speak for what people expected (nor should you), but I do think his problem was shifting gears to the point that he alienated a number of his potential audiences after it was too late for them to simply stop reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
This misunderstanding seems to have led Ryuukishi and umineko readers to focus way too much in thinking in terms of solvability and less on terms of "writing a good story", which was in fact an important objective behind Knox's and Dine's rules.

...

I could talk about the chekhov's gun, which Ryuukishi disregards repeatedly by adding "noise" everywhere.

But anyway, I think I made my point already.
Crystal. Anyway I think this is important because people aren't understanding where a lot of readers are coming from. There seems to be a perception that dissatisfied fans were somehow mystery novel buffs who came into Umineko expecting a mystery and whose dissatisfaction with it solely arises from the way it differs from a "proper" mystery. There are people with some degree of background in this; haguruma and Sherringford in particular are very familiar with the genre. I was not.

I don't know the first thing about the "rules" of the genre, because I've never read the genre as a genre. The last "detective story" I think I read before Umineko was Asimov's The Robots of Dawn. Which is a mystery story, but I approached it from science fiction, because that's mostly what I read, 50s-70s sci-fi and fantasy. I did not have any expectations for Umineko as a genre work and I equated it categorically with Higurashi. Now Higurashi was not a mystery; it was a supernatural thriller. I would argue Umineko is not a mystery either; it's a mundane thriller with a supernatural side story. In that respect, my initial classification was closer to what the reality of the story actually was.

However, I have a background in writing and editing. I wrote in school for pleasure and for studies. I write extensively, on a daily basis, as part of my job (granted, what I do has nothing to do with fiction). And when I have time, I write for pleasure, and I read about the craft of writing itself, because I'm fascinated purely with the idea of the written word.

This makes me critical of Ryukishi's work as a craftsman. I'm fascinated by the raw material he works with and the creativity in his expression, but much like the artwork he draws, when I examine it even casually I find it to be full of flaws, corner-cutting, and laziness which detracts from the brilliance that occasionally shows through.

Flaws like characterization issues, redundant writing, excessive description that bogs down scenes that are supposed to be taut and quickly-paced. Corner-cutting like not hiring an artist or editor, changing things to assuage the audience, or not generally acting like the professional that - "doujin work" label or not - he must conduct himself as. Laziness like plot threads and red herrings never addressed and major themes introduced and not adequately developed. I think these things, rather than malice or cynicism, contributed to the schizoid impression of his message and his overall quality that some readers have found.

I like the story, but I do not like the work. I like the style of his character design, but I do not like the implementation in the actual sprites. I like the characters but I do not like their development (or lack thereof). It's like he's a miner who found a cache of gorgeous natural rubies, and rather than do the best he can to ensure that they are cut into the most jaw-dropping gemstones anyone has seen in centuries, he tries to do everything himself and produces a bunch of small, amateurishly-cut stones that are generally regarded as a waste of raw material.

I'd love more than anything to see those things shine. But he is not a competent enough craftsman by himself, and until he starts to conduct himself professionally he never will be.

I think Type-Moon is actually a good example of contrast. They became more professional over time and their crafstmanship improved even if their actual content did not. The Kara no Kyoukai films are gorgeous and brilliantly-realized, they're just the nonsense scribblings of a high schooler who played way too much Mage: The Ascension. Ryukishi has better ideas, but he isn't professional at all. It disappoints me far more to see a good idea wasted by laziness than a terrible idea lavished with love and care. A brilliantly-cut piece of cheap artificial crystalware shines more brightly than a scuffed and amateurish ruby, but it's the latter you wish had the cut of the former, as then you could throw the other one away.
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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