Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection

Translated interviews about making ‘Evangelion 2.0’ w/Anno, Higuchi, Enokido, & Tsurumaki
anime, NGE, interview
by: Ryusuke Hikawa, Hideaki Anno, Shinji Higuchi, Yōji Enokido, Kazuya Tsurumaki, Mohiro Kitoh, Shigeto Koyama, Yoshito Asari 2011-08-292015-08-31 in progress certainty: log importance: 1

The Evan­ge­lion 2.0 Com­plete Records Col­lec­tion (ISBN 978-4-905033-00-4) is a large offi­cial book released after ; it con­tains the sto­ry­boards, var­i­ous draft ele­ments, anno­ta­tions, and mul­ti­ple exten­sive inter­views with peo­ple involved in mak­ing the film by Ryusuke Hikawa (氷川竜介). This is an edited com­pi­la­tion of Num­ber­s-kun’s trans­la­tions of the CRC, var­i­ously posted on the Evageeks forum (forum dis­cus­sion of the book).


Hideaki Anno

Part 1


The response to the “Break” [Evan­ge­lion 2.0] pre­view as the impe­tus for major changes

— I’d like to ask you about “Break”. Pre­pro­duc­tion for “Break”—in­clud­ing work on the sce­nario and the set­tei1—was under­way at the same time as “Pre­lude” []. That was because, I think, they were con­sec­u­tive works, planned to be suc­ces­sively released. That plan was sig­nifi­cantly changed. I’d like to hear how it came about that you revised the script that existed at the time of the “Pre­lude” pre­miere. Things changed just fol­low­ing the pre­miere, right?

: Right. It was from that point that the big changes were made.

— If I was to make a con­jec­ture on the basis of the var­i­ous [CRC] inter­views, dur­ing work on “Pre­lude” there was a ver­sion of the script that did not yet include the most inter­est­ing parts. [[*] TODO what did this foot­note refer to?] [Sh­in­ji] said that he had drawn sto­ry­boards based upon the script at that time.

Anno: Cer­tain­ly, a script had been writ­ten by March 2007, at the same time “Pre­lude” was being made. The eleventh draft became the final ver­sion of that script. Work on the sto­ry­boards was also tak­ing place dur­ing “Pre­lude” from that ear­lier ver­sion of the script. From the point of view of quan­ti­ty, I think the first drafts were already com­pleted for about two-thirds of the whole. That’s because we had planned to begin work on “Break” with­out any pause or inter­rup­tion once “Pre­lude” was fin­ished. How­ev­er, I could­n’t live up to it. After the [“Pre­lude”] pre­miere, I decided to look again at the con­tent of the sec­ond part, start­ing from zero.

— Was the highly favor­able reac­tion of the view­ers at the pre­miere a sig­nifi­cant rea­son for that?

Anno: Yeah. It started after I heard the reac­tion to the pre­view at the Milano the­ater in Shin­juku. [“Pre­lude”] was a the­atri­cal film, but because I wanted the for­mat to be the same as the TV series, I intended from the begin­ning to insert a “pre­view” [at the end]. The same music would be used. I thought, as “ser­vice”, it would please the view­ers of the orig­i­nal work. How­ev­er, I did­n’t expect that big a reac­tion. Orig­i­nal­ly, I thought, because there would be a “gap” until the sec­ond part, attach­ing a pre­view at the end would increase the view­ers’ antic­i­pa­tion. I also expected that, among the view­ers, there would be some for whom this [pre­view] would be the “peak” of the film. How­ev­er, this was more than I imag­ined. In par­tic­u­lar, the reac­tion to the new char­ac­ter was big­ger than I expect­ed.

— At the the­ater I went to, [the crowd] was extremely charged up, even at the very end.

Anno: Right. I did­n’t expect that much. The staff who went to see [the film] were also deeply impressed and excited [by the reac­tion].

In the first ver­sion of the plot I thought of, the new char­ac­ter would have a very active role from the third part on. I did­n’t think the char­ac­ter would do any more than make an appear­ance in the sec­ond part. Although, because she appeared in the orig­i­nal series, she does­n’t seem much like a new char­ac­ter, Asuka was also a highly impor­tant “new char­ac­ter” who, in the Rebuild films, would appear from the sec­ond part on. Because I would surely place empha­sis upon [?] Asuka, I did­n’t intend to seri­ously deal with a new char­ac­ter in the sec­ond part. How­ev­er, there was so much antic­i­pa­tion for the new char­ac­ter among the view­ers that I felt I had to respond to that. So, I decided to increase the num­ber of the new char­ac­ter’s appear­ances. It was at that point that I first began the work of review­ing the sec­ond part. The strength of the response to the pre­view, the inten­sity of the view­ers, sig­nifi­cantly changed the way I looked at “Break”. It moved my heart, and the “rud­der” of the work began to sig­nifi­cantly shift.

— How did the actual work [process] change?

Anno: There was the con­tent of the film, the script, but I began by look­ing at how I was mak­ing the films.

Dur­ing the mak­ing of the first part, “Pre­lude”, I feel like I was half-fix­ated [?] on reen­act­ing the TV series. Because we had lacked mon­ey, work­ers, and time, I wanted to recre­ate the old mate­r­i­al. I was so fix­ated on the idea of reen­ac­tion that I was mak­ing [the film] with­out devi­at­ing from the tim­ing of the [orig­i­nal] timesheets. Half-way through I real­ized that it was okay to alter the timesheets. Although it might seem strange, despite [the film being] a kind of “new, dig­i­tal sat­suei2 work”, I was overly hung up on the ini­tial phrase, “film remake”. Dur­ing the ini­tial screen­ing of “Pre­lude”, I felt that, if I had gone this far in updat­ing all the images, I could have devi­ated a bit more from the [orig­i­nal] sto­ry­boards. [?] The orig­i­nal con­cep­tion was that the films would start out from the same place as the TV series, but I felt I was too fix­ated upon that place. So, from the sec­ond part onwards, I intended to aban­don those ele­ments “fix­ated” on the orig­i­nal series and pro­ceed with the feel­ing that I was mak­ing an entirely new work. I would set out from “ground zero”.

To begin with, I nat­u­rally thought I would cor­rect my mis­take by alter­ing the script. The scripted plot, at that stage, was still devel­op­ing in accor­dance with the orig­i­nal work, and with a view to uti­liz­ing the genga3 of the orig­i­nal work, so from that point I decided to make changes. I returned the plot and the out­line to their ini­tial state and reex­am­ined things from the begin­ning. In order to exam­ine the drama and the course of the plot as a whole, and to estab­lish the new char­ac­ter, Mari [Mak­i­nami], I held a retreat. This mainly involved scru­ti­niz­ing the out­line with the direc­toral camp and (Yo­ji) Enoki­do-san, who was par­tic­i­pat­ing once again [ow­ing to Tsu­ru­mak­i’s sug­ges­tion ?]. It was only men; we shut our­selves up in Atami for three days and two nights. At that point new ideas and dras­tic amend­ments to the plot were pro­posed—­for exam­ple, Masayuk­i’s sug­ges­tion that, fol­low­ing the main title, the film begin with the grave­yard vis­it, or Enoki­do-san’s sug­ges­tion of a Shin­ji-Mari “Love Love” pair­ing. From that point, a ful­l-s­cale revi­sion had seri­ously begun.

— No changes were made to Mar­i’s appear­ance in the pre-ti­tle sequence itself?

Anno: Right. Mari and the pro­vi­sional Unit-05, the third angel, and so on—the idea of begin­ning with this char­ac­ter and this mecha that we’ve never seen before, and this new set­ting, “Bethany Base”, out­side of Hakone—this remained unchanged from the first draft out­line. The plan of the bat­tle, Mar­i’s dia­logue and per­son­al­i­ty—these sort of things changed, but the course itself, the gen­eral course of the story of the pre-ti­tle sequence, did­n’t change. I wanted it to impact both view­ers of the orig­i­nal series and peo­ple for whom “Break” was their first time see­ing Eva. I thought that, although peo­ple famil­iar with the orig­i­nal series would be over­whelmed with unfa­mil­iar things [?], because of Kaji, there was a com­mon denom­i­na­tor which could enable them to feel secure for the moment. Start­ing with Eng­lish and Russ­ian dia­logue with Japan­ese sub­ti­tles was the same. First of all, I wanted to begin the film with the impres­sion of things being differ­ent than they have been up until now.

— The pro­vi­sional Unit-05 was not a famil­iar EVA with a “bipedal” form.

Anno: Right. I wanted to intro­duce an unfa­mil­iar Eva with a form you could imme­di­ately iden­tify as differ­ent. I also want­ed, for the pre-ti­tle sequence, to try to cre­ate fully CG images, includ­ing the angel and the Eva. A fully CG bat­tle was itself, within Eva, an unfa­mil­iar image, [so I wanted to use it] for the pre-ti­tle sequence. I also had an “exper­i­men­tal” inten­tion. To what extent was a fully CG Eva bat­tle pos­si­ble? I thought it would be good if we could test tech­ni­cal things out or exper­i­ment with how things are set up within the work. The form and details were com­plex, with the four legs, and so on. It would have taken a lot of time and effort to draw by hand; the design is con­sid­er­ably diffi­cult to draw. It was a bat­tle scene where the move­ment and so on could­n’t be effi­ciently drawn if we did­n’t use CG, so I wanted to take this oppor­tu­nity to exper­i­ment with it. We had also put together a com­plex design for the angel intended to be ren­dered in CG. The back­ground ani­ma­tion was also some­thing where its cre­ation was directed with an eye to CG. [?] I fig­ured, in addi­tion, that the pre-ti­tle sequence was the begin­ning of the work, so there was plenty of time left on the pro­duc­tion sched­ule. Even if there were var­i­ous diffi­cul­ties with a full CG bat­tle scene, I fig­ured that we had plenty of time to inves­ti­gate the diffi­cul­ties using ani­mat­ics4 and so on.

How­ev­er, in the end, for var­i­ous rea­sons, we ran out of time. There were cuts that worked well in the ani­mat­ics, but, to sum things up, they did­n’t really go as planned, which was a bit unfor­tu­nate. [?] Among other things, we added in hand-drawn effects, and intro­duced CG explo­sions. Includ­ing the sat­suei treat­ment, we con­tin­ued exper­i­ment­ing with var­i­ous things until we almost ran out of time. As an on-screen image, I think the final result paid off. How­ev­er…

— CG was used in “Pre­lude”, but here there is more action, and things have much pro­gressed.

Anno: Yeah. With peo­ple who can draw the Eva genga really well being lim­it­ed, if I wanted to main­tain or increase the qual­i­ty—I thought from the out­set that I wanted to replace, as much as pos­si­ble, ele­ments like walk­ing and run­ning move­ments, which would orig­i­nally just get repeated [?], with CG. The angels, as well—s­ince I con­ceived of the plot I intended to make all the angels mostly CG, exclud­ing Unit-03 (the ninth angel) and the final tenth angel—the oppo­site of the pat­tern from “Pre­lude”. There, we began with hand-drawn angels, and ended with full CG. I con­sid­ered the total amount of work to be done and its allo­ca­tion between hand-drawn and CG parts, and the script reflects that con­sid­er­a­tion. [?] I always take pro­duc­tion-re­lated risks into account, so the num­ber or amount of bat­tle scenes are decided in advance, before start­ing the script or the script out­line.

Part 2


A script bogged down in revi­sions upon revi­sions

— It seems that dur­ing the scriptwrit­ing process an enor­mous num­ber of seri­ous revi­sions accu­mu­lat­ed.

Anno: Yeah. Count­ing both large and small revi­sions, there was a total of more than forty revi­sions of the script. The first major changes took place from Novem­ber 2006 to the start of Decem­ber, while we were still work­ing on “Pre­lude”.

— What sort of changes were those?

Anno: Asuka became the test pilot for Unit-03. Up until that point Touji had been the test sub­ject, just as in the TV series. The only differ­ence was that Shinji knew that in advance. Up to that point, the script as a whole was filled with var­i­ous “nuances” remind­ing of, or “tastes” of, the orig­i­nal series: an “adult” depic­tion of Kaji and Mis­ato, Asuka’s dis­cord with her moth­er, Asuka’s idol­iza­tion of Kaji and her imme­di­ate friend­ship with Hikari, and so on. In addi­tion, the cli­max around this time was a kind of syn­the­sis between episodes 19 and 23 of the TV series, where Shinji would be per­suaded by Kaji to launch in Unit-01 and Rei would sac­ri­fice her­self in order to save Shin­ji; faced with this grief, Shin­ji’s heart would be unable to bear it, and Unit-01 would go out of con­trol. The drafts up to num­ber five were writ­ten accord­ing to this plan. [The first draft sto­ry­boards up to part C that were requested before the pre­miere of “Pre­lude” were gen­er­ally based upon the drafts of the script writ­ten up to this point. ???]

— What was the impe­tus for the change?

Anno: The big thing was the com­ments made by Makki (Di­rec­tor Kazuya Tsu­ru­mak­i’s pet name). “For this, we can’t make films just by sum­ma­riz­ing the TV series”. He also said, “I want Asuka to have a ‘film-like’ role. At this rate, she will just be mak­ing an appear­ance—she pro­vides no drama vis-a-vis Shin­ji, the pro­tag­o­nist; she is not involved”. Fur­ther­more, “As a sto­ry, it’s not differ­ent enough from the orig­i­nal series”—all these in suc­ces­sion. He fur­ther said, “Isn’t a change as dras­tic as hav­ing Asuka pilot Unit-03 nec­es­sary?” I think, because this was a major, fun­da­men­tal change, opin­ion was divided when I researched the views of a num­ber of staff mem­bers. (Ikki) Todor­oki, in par­tic­u­lar, was tremen­dously opposed5. After think­ing about it, I ulti­mately adopted Tsu­ru­mak­i’s pro­posal and decided to change the pilot of Unit-03. That was the sixth draft of the script. It was fin­ished fol­low­ing the 2007 new year, on Jan­u­ary 8th. In this draft, the test pilot was sim­ply changed from Touji to Asuka, [and the rea­son for it—­Mari, the new pilot, is reas­signed to NERV HQ from Europe, and Asuka will be taken off of Unit-02, so she vol­un­teer­s—was really just impro­vised. ?] The change of test pilot was forced into the draft, with the char­ac­ters and sit­u­a­tions left unal­tered.

So, nat­u­ral­ly, I received, and agreed with, a pro­posal memo sent out by Tsu­ru­maki, which said, “We have to pro­vide Shin­ji, as well as the audi­ence, with the same degree of shock and sense of loss as when Touji was lost in the TV series. For that rea­son, by boldly por­tray­ing Asuka as a ‘good char­ac­ter’6, I hope to greatly con­vey that sense of loss”. Because of that, I wanted to have Asuka pilot Unit-03 in order to do some­thing for Rei, and Shin­ji, and oth­er­s—­some­thing for other peo­ple. As Tsu­ru­maki put it, it’s like a “death flag” is raised7. As a result, Asuka pilot­ing Unit-03 ended up being made into the “peak” of her dra­ma. I changed var­i­ous parts of the script in accor­dance with this. For exam­ple, Asuka’s impe­tus for pilot­ing Unit-03 would con­nect with the story of Rei [learn­ing to cook and?] prepar­ing a din­ner party for Shinji and Gen­dou. It seemed like these things, as well as Asuka’s char­ac­ter, dia­logue, and so on, had grad­u­ally become solid­i­fied.

Aside from Mari, the course of the story and drama up to Part C was roughly the same in the eleventh draft of the script, dated March 11, 2007, as it would be in the film. How­ev­er, Part D still fol­lowed the course of the orig­i­nal series. Up to the eleventh draft, the plan for what would be done with Unit-02 dur­ing the bat­tle with the tenth angel—­for exam­ple—had con­tin­u­ally changed. I went from a pro­posal from Tsu­ru­maki which sug­gested that, “as it puts pres­sure on pro­duc­tion, it would be bet­ter if Unit-02 did not appear [dur­ing that scene]”, to “Mari will pilot Unit-02”, and at one point I even set­tled on a plan where “an uncon­scious Asuka will pilot Unit-02 using the dummy sys­tem”. The eleventh draft [?] was writ­ten along those lines. The devel­op­ment fol­low­ing the defeat of Unit-02 and Unit-00 just fol­lowed the course of the orig­i­nal series, where Rei, who is con­sumed by or united with the angel, tries to take in Unit-01, and, when she notices what she is doing, self­-de­struc­ts. At this point, I tem­porar­ily stopped work­ing on the script. That was because work on “Pre­lude” was fac­ing a great cri­sis, and I had to focus upon it. If I’m not mis­tak­en, at one point I requested image boards and sto­ry­boards of the last bat­tle based upon this draft from Shin-chan Shinji Higuchi.

— When was the sus­pended work on the “Break” script resumed?

Anno: I was in a daze for a lit­tle while fol­low­ing the first “Pre­lude” screen­ing. From there I once again uncov­ered var­i­ous issues, large and small. Gath­er­ing [the var­i­ous opin­ions expressed at ?] the script retreat held at the end of Octo­ber, as well as my own thoughts, I revised a large por­tion of the script, pro­duc­ing what you might call a new ver­sion. This twelfth draft was com­pleted on Decem­ber 6, 2007. At this point, there was a devel­op­ment where, dur­ing the fight with the falling angel8, Mari and Asuka are present in the [Unit-02] entry plug togeth­er. Then I wrote the entire script anew, rewrit­ing it with the feel­ing that it was an all-new work. Because of that, the parts of the script pred­i­cated upon the appro­pri­a­tion of mate­ri­als [genga etc.] from the orig­i­nal series were largely elim­i­nat­ed.

In addi­tion, one more new, sig­nifi­cant change emerged at this time. Aban­don­ing the sce­nario where Rei self­-de­structs in the last scene to save Shin­ji, I decided on a course where Shinji saves Rei. This was due to (Toshimichi) Otsuk­i’s opin­ion as a pro­ducer that, because [the story of the sec­ond part would also lead to the third part ?], he wanted it to end hope­ful­ly, with a pos­i­tive feel­ing. Regard­ing this, opin­ions among the staff were again divid­ed. This time, it was Tsu­ru­maki who par­tic­u­larly opposed, or resist­ed, this change. Makki said that he wanted to promi­nently fea­ture Rei III, who was barely present in the old work, in the third part [of Rebuild], devel­op­ing her in depth. It seemed like this had been one of his moti­va­tions for par­tic­i­pat­ing [in Rebuild]. How­ev­er, in the end I decided on the sce­nario where Rei is saved, and he assent­ed, say­ing “If it’s all right with Anno-san…” I think I decided that way because, with “Break”, I was search­ing for some­thing called “change”. As well, I thought this would lead to the next change. At this point I could gen­er­ally see what the roles of Asuka, Rei, and Mis­ato would be. The prob­lem was Mari.

Part 3


As a for­eign ele­ment, Mari strug­gles to enter

— I heard that you had a very hard time with the cre­ation of Mar­i’s char­ac­ter.

Anno: Right. It was extremely diffi­cult. Ever since I started the new films I had decided on this “one trick” where I would increase the count of female pilots by one with a new char­ac­ter. I felt that there was a dan­ger where, if I did­n’t do this, I would end up repeat­ing the same sto­ry, and be unable to sig­nifi­cantly change things. I felt that, even if I had to force it, if I did­n’t throw a new Eva pilot as an extreme, for­eign ele­ment into the films, then Eva would not sig­nifi­cantly change. At the start, I feel like I forcibly thrust her into the sto­ry. The early drafts were so erratic that, being unre­lated to the sto­ry, Mar­i’s very exis­tence seemed to have no basis. Out­side of the pre-ti­tle sequence, she prac­ti­cally did not appear at all. But because at the time I expected that, if she made more than a cameo appear­ance in the sec­ond part [2.0], I would be unable to develop Asuka or Shinji or some­one else, I left things as they were. I fig­ured that I should develop the new char­ac­ter from the third part [3.0] on, where the story would com­pletely change. It would be easy to insert her there. Well, that was a thor­oughly naive out­look.

At any rate, when it came down to actu­ally increas­ing her appear­ances, I could­n’t fit her in at all. It just was­n’t pos­si­ble for her to appear. The orig­i­nal Evan­ge­lion had been more rigidly made than I had thought. There was no real mar­gin for new ele­ments to enter into the story or into the dra­ma. I cre­ated the orig­i­nal series by select­ing the best ways of doing things that I could think of at the time, so if I dam­aged one ele­ment, other ele­ments would become dam­aged as part of a chain reac­tion. At the end, I started to get less and less inter­ested in doing it.

This was diffi­cult to deal with. The work was more than ten years old, but still, I had cre­ated it myself, so it was­n’t easy for me to dam­age. This isn’t self­-con­grat­u­la­tion—I was forced to again rec­og­nize that the “flow” was very well con­struct­ed. The orig­i­nal Evan­ge­lion was entirely cre­ated from my unem­bell­ished feel­ings and my impro­vised writ­ings, so it was not com­pleted accord­ing to a the­o­ry. As a result, I thought I would get other peo­ple, out­siders, to help me destroy it—T­su­ru­maki in par­tic­u­lar. In addi­tion, there’s parts of myself that are differ­ent com­pared to that time. So, I tried to change [Eva]. It was a bat­tle with my so-called past self, my self eleven years ago. It took a great deal of inner strength.

— It’s a process where you might end up repu­di­at­ing your inner core, so I can imag­ine the pain involved. Prac­ti­cally speak­ing, how did you attempt to insert Mari into the sto­ry?

Anno: To begin with, I left [cer­tain things] to oth­ers. I tried to pro­pose as lit­tle of her image myself as I could. I gave O-sada [Yoshiyuki Sadamo­to] and Makki a rough impres­sion of her set­tei: her out­ward design was to be that of a Eng­lish pri­vate school girl, a bit “O-nee-san”-like, maybe with a love of ani­mals as well, and so on. After that I left them to work things out; I felt like I would just check what they com­plet­ed. I think, since it had been decided that [the char­ac­ter] would appear, the team­work on the char­ac­ter design started at very early stage. I think Sadamoto strug­gled greatly [with Mari] for a while as well, but arrived in the direc­tion of “a meganekko, with long, straight hair”, and so forth, early on. After all, the rough design was ready in time for the pre­view at the end of “Pre­lude”. He strug­gled with it again when the time came to gather and revise every­thing to pro­duce Mar­i’s set­tei images, but I think the result was very good, as you would expect from O-sa­da.

How­ev­er, there were some diffi­cul­ties as her per­son­al­ity was­n’t com­ing togeth­er. Things started with a process of elim­i­na­tion. There was already a “nor­mal” char­ac­ter in Hikari, and “eccen­tric” char­ac­ters in Rei and Asu­ka. First off, [we] tried to take those per­son­al­ity char­ac­ter­is­tics and aspects of appear­ance that had not been yet been used in Eva as a start­ing point. She was made up of sim­ple ele­ments; for exam­ple, “she wears glasses as an acces­so­ry, which we had avoided using up to this point because they were hard to ani­mate”. Yet if this were all, she would­n’t be a new char­ac­ter, only a “not” char­ac­ter—what­ever Rei, Asuka, etc., weren’t. The posi­tions of the char­ac­ters in the orig­i­nal work were also extremely rigidly con­struct­ed. If Mari were to be inserted care­lessly the dra­ma, the sto­ry, and the bal­ance of the whole would com­pletely fall apart. Although I was aim­ing for change, if it was only differ­ent from the orig­i­nal work, in the end it would be noth­ing but a “counter” to what had come before…

— That’s surely the case, as being a “counter” means that it becomes a premise in which the same sense of val­ues is incor­po­rat­ed.

Anno: Right. Well, it’s diffi­cult. By the draft of Feb­ru­ary 15 2008, draft 13a, I had the idea that “Mar­i’s appear­ances fol­low­ing the pre-ti­tle sequence will come soon­er, be more numer­ous, and be more impres­sive. To that end, Mari will take charge of the bat­tle­field dur­ing the fight against the falling angel, rid­ing with Asuka, who hates the sit­u­a­tion, in the entry plug [of Unit-02]”. Then Mari cov­ers [庇う] for Asuka, but a wound she received dur­ing the pre-ti­tle sequence grows worse, so she is hos­pi­tal­ized until she reap­pears again in the last scene. That was the plan, but it did­n’t work out.9 It seemed arti­fi­cial, and did­n’t fit. On the other hand, if Mari con­tin­ued to appear, scenes which related Mari to Shinji would become nec­es­sary, and because of that Asuka’s pres­ence would become too far reduced for the scene where she pilots Unit-03 to be allowed to remain. On top of that, scenes between Mari and Shinji where I felt “this is right” were not com­ing eas­ily to me. Fur­ther­more, as the screen­play had nobody know­ing Mari, the con­ver­sa­tions did not go any­where. So, I made her a senior school­mate of Asuka’s from Europe, but then this weak­ened the sense of Asuka’s iso­la­tion, so that was again no good. At that point the bal­ance [of Eva] was com­ing apart like a tower made of toy blocks.

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=463004#463004 part 3 con­tin­ued

With all those var­i­ous draw­backs and time run­ning out, we totally cut the appear­ance of Mari in Part B when we worked on the sto­ry­boards instead of doing it in scripts. In the sto­ry­boards, I think there is about one cut remained that had the frame with Mari behind Asuka on Unit-02 and with a big X-mark inside. The saku-uchi [team dis­cus­sion and work­ing on the draw­ing] of that scene was done at an early stage, so there was no more time to do re-think for it. But with this revised script the parts except Mar­i’s, up to Part C, became rel­a­tively com­plete.

Well, still there were also many script revi­sions pil­ing up con­cern­ing small changes in dia­logues or switch­ing the scene order in places like the sec­tion with Touji/Kensuke and Shinji or the SEELE scene. Things like the story of Asuka’s rela­tion­ship with her moth­er, or the some­what “adult” episodes between Mis­ato and Kaji, were revised or elim­i­nated at the stage when the sto­ry­boards were being brought togeth­er. With the “flow” being brought togeth­er, we became unable to incor­po­rate parts that did­n’t involve Shin­ji. I had also wanted to incor­po­rate as much as I could an “adult vivid­ness”, but this time I decided to take the risk of leav­ing it out. I decided to make it an eas­ily com­pre­hen­si­ble view of world build­ing that put junior high stu­dents at the cen­ter.

— After that much arrang­ing and get­ting down to what was essen­tial, Mari and Part D still remained [to be dealt with], right?

Anno: Right. The four­teenth draft, dated Jan­u­ary 14th 2008, was sep­a­rate from what came before, begin­ning from Part D. At that point it was fixed that Mari would pilot Unit-02. How­ev­er, Mis­ato and Shin­ji’s sep­a­ra­tion, what the course of action would be after the berserk of Unit-02 that Mari pilot­ed, what hap­pens after the angel con­sumes Unit-00—these sorts of things were a long way from being set­tled. Mar­i’s appear­ances, as well—in draft 13b, dated May 23rd, there was a scene where she had tea with Shinji on the roof of the school. For Part D, I focused on con­tin­u­ally pro­duc­ing revi­sions from May to about Sep­tem­ber. There are 13 drafts just in the data that still remains. Real­ly, it was like all sorts of ideas were com­ing up and then dis­ap­pear­ing.

The first story plan was dated August 3rd, 2006, so the script went through about two years and five months of repeated twists and turns in total. Any­way, I think I devised new ideas every day in order to make things inter­est­ing.

Part 4

“[We] per­sisted in chang­ing Mar­i’s appear­ances up until the very last minute”

— It seems like the changes to the script con­tin­ued even though the date of the film’s release was get­ting close.

Anno: Yeah. Tsu­ru­maki, who was in charge of the sto­ry­boards plus the direc­tor of Part D, per­se­vered until the very end. Espe­cially in regards to Mari. Draft 15.2, dated Sep­tem­ber 25, was at one point sent to be sto­ry­board­ed, but when it came time for Tsu­ru­maki to do it, there were things in the script that, no mat­ter what, he was not con­vinced about. [With these points] unset­tled, a memo emerged from him con­cern­ing them. He said that if these [prob­lems] were not resolved, he could­n’t draw the sto­ry­boards. So, dur­ing the stu­dio’s new year’s hol­i­day, we sequestered our­selves at my house and at a hotel in Hakone, and we did noth­ing but think of ideas in order to clear up the diffi­cul­ties. We were delighted when we came up with them. The script put together as the solu­tion to these diffi­cul­ties, draft 16.2, turned out to be the final draft. This was the part stretch­ing from the con­ver­sa­tion in the bomb shel­ter between Shinji and Mari in the heav­ily dam­aged Unit-02 to the Kaworu epi­logue. That was Jan­u­ary 18th, 2009, so it was a sit­u­a­tion where we were almost out of time on the pro­duc­tion sched­ule, and did­n’t know if the images [for the film] would be fin­ished in time for the pre­miere. We sto­ry­boarded after that, so we per­sisted in revis­ing things to the point of real dan­ger.

— You had half a year until the pre­miere. It would seem that, even if you had started the afureko [voice record­ing] after the new year, a por­tion of the scenes would still not have been in a con­di­tion suit­able for record­ing. That includes the parts involv­ing Mari and Shin­ji, right?

Anno: Mari and Shin­ji’s encounter was finally sto­ry­boarded on Feb­ru­ary 28th, 2009. At the stage when Makki sto­ry­boarded the script [the scene] was in a revised form with addi­tional ideas. Tsu­ru­maki was deter­mined to get Mari to arrive from the sky. I feel he just kept at it until an idea emerged that cleared [the way for] that.

But real­ly, Mar­i’s encounter with Shin­ji, the scene where she re-e­merges, was cre­ated by repeated trial and error; I for­get how many times I rewrote it. That scene, as well, was ini­tially intended to be placed after Unit-02 was sealed away, but when we watched the rushes through, it did­n’t flow prop­er­ly. In edit­ing, we tried insert­ing it at var­i­ous points, and in the end it was decided that the scene would be advanced to an ear­lier point in Part B. The con­nec­tion where [Sh­in­ji’s] S-Dat falls on the roof and begins act­ing up was really a chance result.

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=464064#464064 Part 4 [Con­tin­ued]

— In addi­tion, there were scenes that just fea­tured Mari.

Anno: Con­cern­ing Mari, at the very last min­ute, dur­ing edit­ing, the opin­ion was expressed—­maybe by O-Sada—that Mari does not appear in enough sce­nes, that we for­get her along the way. Well, I think he felt this way because, as a result of mov­ing the roof scene to a posi­tion ear­lier than was orig­i­nally planned, there was a gap until her appear­ance in Part D. So, we decided to think of addi­tional scenes in the way of con­tent we could pro­duce from that point on. Because afureko was already com­plete, we thought of var­i­ous [pos­si­bil­i­ties] with­out [us­ing] dia­logue, mak­ing use of differ­ent takes from other [unused] cuts; dig­ging up rough lay­outs, insert­ing them in edit­ing, and tak­ing a look at them; and so on. We declared [op­tions] to be use­less a num­ber of times, and in the end we decided on insert­ing a scene that used genga from the 2.0 pre­view trailer after [a shot of] Tou­ji. Oh my, con­cern­ing Mari we really were at a loss and strug­gled till the very very end. I think for this kind of sit­u­a­tion [it would be great] if I had the abil­ity to sud­denly hit upon some­thing. I wish I had the power to quickly come up with ideas that could clear the chal­lenges.

— In what way do you think Mar­i’s char­ac­ter was estab­lished in the film as a result of those diffi­cul­ties?

Anno: I think she became a good char­ac­ter who for all her short appear­ance was impres­sive. This was again due to Tsu­ru­mak­i’s per­sis­tence. In any case, we depicted her with great care in order to leave an impres­sion. I wanted Mari to be an out­sider within myself as well as an alien pres­ence in the world of Eva. Because of that, I entrusted a sig­nifi­cant potion [of the work con­cern­ing her] to Mak­ki. If I had taken too much ini­tia­tive, there was a risk that she might become [just like] the already exist­ing char­ac­ters. I think the result was very good, and I’m pleased with it, because the char­ac­ter con­tains some­thing of the feel­ing of an alien pres­ence. The image of her voice was also not decided by me, and the sug­ges­tion of (Maaya) Sakamo­to-san, if I recall cor­rect­ly, was, in addi­tion, made by O-Sa­da. I guess Makki also approved [of that sug­ges­tion] at the time. I think I said some­thing then, but at the end I said some­thing like “I think it’s fine”.

That was at the time of a drink­ing party at the stu­dio. Otsuk­i-san, who had grown impa­tient with the fact that, despite being close to the afureko peri­od, the cast­ing was still unde­cided with­out me hav­ing made any sug­ges­tions, was ask­ing staff mem­bers then and there which seiyuu would be good for the new char­ac­ter, and Sakamo­to-san’s name was brought up. The response of the sur­round­ing staff mem­bers was favor­able. So, Otsuk­i-san said, “Anno-san, Sakamo­to-san is fine; we’ll choose her. Tomor­row, we’ll talk at the office”. “Yeah, that’s fine”, I said. [So far] I had only said hello to her in some events, but I thought that [the deci­sion] was some­thing good. She also per­formed well in Top 2 (), and as it was a rec­om­men­da­tion from O-Sada and Makki, I thought there would be no prob­lems. Well, later when I went to drink with var­i­ous peo­ple, I was told by of , “Anno took our Maaya with­out ask­ing us blah blah” (laugh)

— What was the result like, [us­ing] Maaya-san?

Anno: Sakamo­to-san was extremely good. She per­formed as part of a reg­u­lar team that had already been formed more than ten years ago with­out hes­i­ta­tion. Well, she was good. When I heard her first test I was con­vinced that it would work. Her song was excel­lent as well.

— Was it your idea that she sing that, the “365-step march”?

Anno: That was me. It was a song from the I heard when I was a child. I had her sing it as I wanted to bring out a feel­ing of ease despite it being her first cam­paign. In addi­tion, want­ing to bring out a ‘Showa-era old man’ feel from her char­ac­ter, I also put in actions like her say­ing “Dokkoisho” when she stands up, or her uncon­sciously strik­ing her palm with her fist when she says “Yoshi. So da”.10 To put it in terms of cook­ing, that was just about the final sea­son­ing.

— Con­cern­ing Mar­i’s nam­ing, I believe [the name] came from Anno-san, but what was the source for it?

Anno: is the name of an Eng­lish air­craft car­ri­er. “Mak­i­nami” comes, not from the for­mer Impe­r­ial Navy, but from the Japan Mar­itime Self­-De­fense Force’s Ayanami class of destroy­ers [escort ship­s]. “Shik­i­nami” is the same. I don’t know whether or not I will bring this out in the main work, but in the new films, I altered the set­tei of the Eva pilots com­pared to the orig­i­nal. Because of this, Asuka[’s name] changed as well, from Soryu to Shik­i­na­mi. As for the name “Mari”, I orig­i­nally got the name “Mariko” from a char­ac­ter who appeared in my wife’s () man­ga, but for var­i­ous rea­sons it was changed to “Mari”. Well, Buc­chan [Yu­taka Izubuchi] was also prob­a­bly pleased with the change (laugh­s).

— The Mari Izubuchi-san enjoys, would that be ’s Mari Saku­ra­no?

Anno: Yeah. Around the end of the orig­i­nal Eva, I was asked by Buc­chan if Asuka and Rei[’s names came from] Rei Asuka of Brave Raideen. I was some­what unfa­mil­iar with Raideen, and unthink­ingly responded with the ques­tion, “Was there such a char­ac­ter?”, upon which I was emphat­i­cally told, “Yes, there was!!” Until I was told that, I had­n’t noticed it. I had­n’t been con­scious of it at all. Part-way through [pro­duc­tion] I thought about chang­ing [Mar­i’s name] to Chizuru11; if I had done that I think it would have pleased Sho-chan (Shoji Kawamor­i’s pet name). There was also my wife’s char­ac­ter; and after all hap­pened I finally had a chance to save Buc­cha­n’s face by mak­ing a link with Raideen; so after all I went with Mari (laugh)

— That’s a truly beau­ti­ful friend­ship.

Anno: It is, isn’t it (laugh­s). By the way, I pre­fer the voice of Raideen’s Mari in the first half of the show. Hiromi Oka—she was good, was­n’t she?12

Part 5


The var­i­ous changes made to the main char­ac­ters were…

— What was the rea­son for chang­ing Asuka’s name to Shik­i­nami?

Anno: I men­tioned this before, but, because I changed the set­tei relat­ing to the Eva pilots, in order to pro­vide con­sis­tency in accor­dance with that I thought it was best to change the name. I also thought that the change in name of a main char­ac­ter would enable view­ers from the pre­vi­ous work to receive the mes­sage, “This time is differ­ent, a new feel­ing”. Of course I felt uncom­fort­able [about it], and there are things that I think are bet­ter in the orig­i­nal, but here I feel like I [had to] risk chang­ing things. [?] As I thought that fans from the orig­i­nal work would prob­a­bly not expect changes to the extent that Asuka’s name would be changed, I won­dered if the sense that, “Ah, this is differ­ent than before” could be con­veyed in a shock­ing and easy-to-un­der­stand way; and I won­dered if it might be good as a topic [for con­ver­sa­tion] as well.

— Indeed, when arti­cles were pub­lished in the anime mag­a­zines on the changed design of Unit-02, I won­dered what was going on, not see­ing much of a respon­se, but as soon as Asuka’s name change was announced there was an enor­mous reac­tion.

Anno: I would imag­ine so, as the major­ity of the fans are focused on the char­ac­ters rather than the mecha.

I also had a lot of diffi­cul­ties cre­at­ing Asuka’s char­ac­ter this time. For the design itself, it was okay to make not much more than minor changes to her plug­suit, but it was hard estab­lish­ing her per­son­al­ity and per­sonal his­tory for the new films. Well, it was diffi­cult.

— It’s not just Mari and Asuka, who par­tic­i­pate [in the new films] from “Break” onwards. It was impres­sive to see Rei dis­play sig­nifi­cant changes as well. In par­tic­u­lar, there is the fact that she pre­pares a meal, or the shock of her say­ing “poka-poka”. Con­cern­ing changes made to the reg­u­lar char­ac­ters as well, if there were rea­sons [for this], please inform us of what they were.

Anno: With Rei, for some rea­son, i just feel “it hap­pened like that” nat­u­ral­ly. I never remem­ber why it hap­pened that way. Regard­ing Rei’s din­ner party for Shinji and Gen­do, that was orig­i­nally a plot I had thought of using for episode 4 of the TV series. I remem­bered it and thought I would include it this time. I have a mem­ory of it being, at that time, some­thing like Shin­ji’s birth­day par­ty. I think I replaced that with the din­ner party this time. So, the episode where Rei pre­pares a meal was already in the first draft of the script. The dia­logue where Rei says, “…it’s a secret. I’ll tell you when I get a lit­tle bet­ter [at it]” was included in the sec­ond draft, dated Sep­tem­ber 9th, 2006. That’s the sec­ond time that Rei smiles at Shin­ji. The Rei of “Break” was estab­lished from this point on. Since I hit upon that dia­logue, I feel like Rei spon­ta­neously became a char­ac­ter whose emo­tions leak a lit­tle bit into her out­ward appear­ance. As far as Rei is con­cerned, [I am] uncon­scious. I don’t con­trol any­thing. With “poka-poka”, as well, I felt like she said it of her own voli­tion before I was even aware of it.

It’s also the same with Shin­ji. In my mind he is so much a mat­ter of course that, despite him being the pro­tag­o­nist, I often for­get that he exists.

As for Mis­ato, in the new films, I made her posi­tion as a sec­ondary pro­tag­o­nist as opposed to Shinji clear. Shin­ji, as well as Rei, as well as Mis­ato, as well as Asuka—as they express their emo­tions within the lim­ited space of a film, to a cer­tain extent they will act in accor­dance with given roles. I feel that, within the devel­op­ment of the sto­ry, things that I have to do have already been deter­mined. If this was TV, even I went on var­i­ous tan­gents I would still have room to recov­er, so [the char­ac­ters] would act as I pleased. [???] In a film, I can’t do any­thing about this.

Nev­er­the­less, I had the feel­ing that the char­ac­ters were not sim­ply exten­sions of the old work, but were new char­ac­ters as a result. Although they were char­ac­ters who already existed inside of me for over four­teen years, I feel like they were still chang­ing. Asuka in par­tic­u­lar changed from her [orig­i­nal] char­ac­ter set­tei.

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=473270#473270 Part 5 [Sec­ond Seg­men­t]:

— With Asuka’s rela­tion­ship to Kaji also changed, I felt some­thing new [about her].

Anno: Yeah. I com­pletely cut it from the film. The main rea­son was that, in a film, there is sim­ply not enough room to depict some­thing like Kaji and Asuka’s sto­ry. Even if we had put just a lit­tle [of that] in, then she would not have worked as a char­ac­ter, and it would inevitably have been a nuance that only those who knew the orig­i­nal series would under­stand. So I com­pletely cut that [re­la­tion­ship], and instead decided to have Kaji be close to Mari. That deci­sion was made because of the fact that, among the main char­ac­ters who had appeared up to this point, there were none who knew Mari, and this was caus­ing me var­i­ous diffi­cul­ties in writ­ing. That being the case, I fig­ured that Kaji was the most suit­able. He was, like Mari, a char­ac­ter who appears from “Break” onwards. He’s some­one who seems to know var­i­ous secrets, and to have var­i­ous con­nec­tions.

— I feel like you killed two birds with one stone there, and I had the impres­sion that that also had a big impact to Asuka’s inci­dent with Unit 03.

Anno: Yeah. As [part of the] dra­ma, I wanted to increase Asuka’s degree of iso­la­tion even more than in the orig­i­nal work. Because, in the series, the total amount of time avail­able is sig­nifi­cant, and I was able to play around with her por­tray­al, it became “Asuka is a girl who has the man she longs for near­by, and who, on the sur­face, is skilled at social rela­tions”. In a film like this, because the time avail­able is short, and the char­ac­ters will be a mess if you can­not pull them together com­pact­ly, I sim­ply iso­lated her from her sur­round­ings, so it’s as though she does­n’t know any­one except for Mis­ato. I thought her sub­se­quent change of heart would also be eas­ier to under­stand if I had her start with no friends. Because of that, I sep­a­rated her from Kaji as well. If I had­n’t, the feel­ing that she had come [to Japan] alone would have become dilut­ed. In accor­dance with this, I kept her con­tact with oth­ers besides Mis­ato and Shinji slight, and I also kept her con­ver­sa­tions with Hikari rel­a­tively short in the [film’s] sec­ond half.

In any case for movies if one film lasts around 2 hours, I think big­ger extents of change are bet­ter for con­vey­ing [mes­sages] to the audi­ence. I set the Unit-03 inci­dent as the cli­max for Asuka, and with her emo­tional peak being the moment right before she dis­ap­peared from the stage I wanted to make the gap between this and [the part] after her dis­ap­pear­ance as big as pos­si­ble. Start­ing form the falling angel bat­tle which she could not deal with by her­self, she got lib­er­ated lit­tle by lit­tle, and at last she laid bare her feel­ings for the first time to other peo­ple which was Mis­ato. But, well, it was hard work to think up and bring about var­i­ous sto­ries in order to liven things up here. [She is] not the pro­tag­o­nist, and then there is also the weight­ing bal­ance. That said, Part C is almost a story with Asuka as cen­ter.

Because Rei’s din­ner party became the hinge for the rest of Part C, the main char­ac­ter, Shin­ji, had a hard time mak­ing appear­ances in the sto­ry. Because there are many “wait­ing” sit­u­a­tions rather than a feel­ing of activ­i­ty, you just for­get about him. Watch­ing the rushes that were made along the way, Shin­ji’s appear­ances were too few, or should I say that he did­n’t appear for too long a period of time. So, in order that the audi­ence would not for­get [him], the scene where he lis­tens to the radio while study­ing was after­wards added. Despite that, as far as Shin­ji’s story [in Part C] goes, it is noth­ing but “look­ing for­ward to Rei’s din­ner party”, so when Shinji finally appears again, [the added appear­ance] only empha­sizes that.

Part 6


Devices used and changes made in order to fit [the film] into a lim­ited length [of time]

— It seems that the changes in the char­ac­ters and story were not so much made accord­ing to a plan as decided in accor­dance with var­i­ous “bal­ances”.

Anno: It’s not just “Break”; it’s like that for all my works. I all of a sud­den noticed things when I read the script or the sto­ry­boards. I noticed a vari­ety of things, large and small, with sur­prise when I watched the rush­es. So, I hur­riedly went to deal with these var­i­ous things. It was a cycle of rep­e­ti­tion. It was really cre­ation by trial and error. Because this caused my staff trou­bles, I wish I had more of the capac­ity to set­tle every­thing at once in an inter­est­ing way. Nev­er­the­less, because “Break” had many char­ac­ters and there were many sequences that it had to incor­po­rate, I could­n’t see the over­all flow and bal­ance if I did­n’t actu­ally expe­ri­ence it first­hand.

— [The film] had to incor­po­rate an extra­or­di­nary num­ber of things. That was nat­u­rally a great chal­lenge this time around.

Anno: That’s because, if you put it in terms of the TV series, [the film goes] from episode seven to about episode twen­ty-three. That’s a length of about eigh­teen episodes of twen­ty-two min­utes and thirty sec­onds. When it comes to show­ing that in a lit­tle less than two hours, [you can’t do it] if you don’t cut off a siz­able amount.

— Was that prob­lem of what to keep and what to remove a major chal­lenge start­ing from the sce­nario stage?

Anno: I knew from the start that there was absolutely no mar­gin to develop var­i­ous sce­nes, but for some rea­son, dur­ing the ini­tial stages, it was hard for me to rec­og­nize that, and I ended up insert­ing var­i­ous things. First, I served up a full plate, and had the work after­wards of cut­ting things down: “I won’t put this in, I won’t put that in”. Espe­cially as con­cerns the char­ac­ters, there was even a period where I tried in a num­ber of ways to increase the num­ber of scenes depict­ing them. Asuka’s scenes also ended up increas­ing, and when I finally noticed I was faced with the diffi­culty that she now seemed to be the main char­ac­ter.

— There’s an invi­o­lable rule that [an­other char­ac­ter] can’t be more promi­nent than Shin­ji.

Anno: In the end, he is the main char­ac­ter. But, well, from a com­po­si­tional point of view, if we have Shinji involved in even the side sto­ries, well, [I thought] that could be done with­out prob­lem.

— In the [fin­ished] film as a whole, Shinji clearly stands out as the main char­ac­ter.

Anno: That was the result of an accu­mu­la­tion of a vari­ety of great efforts. As we were talk­ing about, in case it was poorly done, the impli­ca­tion could be the risk that [Sh­in­ji] might just appear abruptly only at the end.

— Asuka also had a “roman­tic com­edy”-like part: the devel­op­ment where she cooks a meal, and so on.

Anno: With that, for some rea­son or other I wanted to devel­op, in an easy-to-un­der­stand way, a “junior high school-like” part.

— The heavy empha­sis on “hav­ing a meal” was also strik­ing, but was there some­thing inten­tional in that?

Anno: I thought that I would attempt to adopt a slight fix­a­tion with the idea of “eat­ing”. The influ­ence of my wife is sig­nifi­cant. Owing to her, I have changed a lit­tle bit. So, I tried increas­ing the empha­sis on meals. Up until the 13th draft of the script I had also inserted a scene where, after the bat­tle with the falling angel, Mis­ato invites Kaji, Rit­suko, and the three oper­a­tors to go to a Ramen shop, and they sit around Asuka and have a meal togeth­er. Kaji tells Shin­ji, who has both of his arms ban­daged, “No Prob­lem. Here, open up–”13. Asuka reluc­tantly feeds ramen to Mari, and, in response to Mis­ato’s words, “Asuka, help­ing another per­son prob­a­bly feels pretty good”, says, “It’s just irri­tat­ing”. But, in the end I decided to cut it. Because I wanted to focus qui­etly on Asuka and Shin­ji’s reac­tions, and because it’s hard to ani­mate a meal scene, I decided not to do it. It was­n’t in draft 13a of the script.

Because this time the cli­max was based on episode 19 of the TV series, the image where Eva con­sumes an angel—well, the result was the oppo­site [of that], but, I won­dered if I should fea­ture the act of “con­sum­ing prey”, includ­ing that sort of image.

— [The motif of] “Food” has been placed through­out the film. Hav­ing a meal together with friends, buy­ing and eat­ing ice can­dies, eat­ing a bento at school, mak­ing a meal [for some­one] and sud­denly stop­ping… This seems to me to be tied into these “Break”-type changes, where [you feel], “this is a new impres­sion although it’s the same Eva”.

Anno: I think, con­cern­ing that, that it prob­a­bly has less to do with scriptwrit­ing con­sid­er­a­tions than with what was dis­cussed pre­vi­ous­ly, my per­sonal changes. I finally tried to take an inter­est in “eat­ing”, and I think that’s some­thing like a man­i­fes­ta­tion of that14. For myself, I won­dered what sort of thing “eat­ing” was sup­posed to be. I myself have many likes and dis­likes, and since child­hood I was not so attached to the idea of “eat­ing”, so I wanted to try to do some rethink on that area. Because of that, while I con­nected the depic­tions to form the story flow, I inten­tion­ally cen­ter it on the act of “eat­ing”.

The increase in the amount of car scenes is the same; it’s because I started dri­ving. From the time I got my license right after I left high school up until my mar­riage, I have prac­ti­cally been a “paper dri­ver”.15 The streets of Tokyo are fright­en­ing. I started dri­ving eight years ago, and became inter­ested in cars for the first time. I started to remem­ber the makes and mod­els of cars, and I began being able to hold con­ver­sa­tions with Sadamoto and Tsu­ru­maki about cars. So, this time, I wanted to try to put as much of those parts of me that had­n’t existed at the time of the old series or twelve years ago into [the film] as I could. Things like hav­ing an inter­est in eat­ing meals, or rid­ing cars, or being in Kamakura with my wife, or, at a social lev­el, being mar­ried, and also work­ing at my own new pro­duc­tion stu­dio. It’s a reac­tion to those parts. Unless I inten­tion­ally imbued [the film] with those parts of me that did­n’t exist twelve years ago, then I would feel like things had­n’t changed after all.

I thought it would be good if the­se, if those “feel­ings” that weren’t pre­vi­ously present would take hold in the film. And for new inter­est­ing points that I could not fill in myself, I intended on quickly insert­ing new ele­ments from the staff like Tsu­ru­maki or Masayuki to get [the whole thing] into chaos…

Part 7

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=492149#492149 First seg­ment

“The rela­tion­ship between Eva and Hideaki Anno’s author­ship16

— But the final deci­sion is made by Anno-san. Tsu­ru­mak­i-san’s opin­ion was that this is the rea­son that [the work] becomes “Eva.”

Anno: Before that [de­ci­sion] I ask my assis­tant Todor­oki what he thinks about it. Todor­oki’s view­point, both as a fan and as a cre­ator, is extremely accu­rate, so I’m very grate­ful for his advice. I think, if I’m aim­ing at enter­tain­ment, it’s no good if only I find it inter­est­ing. I also have to aim at the great­est hap­pi­ness of the great­est num­ber. I think it’s good if, to the best of my abil­i­ty, I align my feel­ings about what is inter­est­ing with that.

Well, I insert my indi­vid­ual likes and pref­er­ences into the parts that are play­ful and not that impor­tant. That way it con­nects to [one’s] “fetishism”, and is good, I think, because it brings out “fla­vor” and “thick­ness” in the work. It’s not really the case that I’m forcibly [bend­ing it to my whim­s]. At any rate, the things I am fix­ated on are there as well, but of course that’s because I wanted to place impor­tance, not on envi­sion­ing the work from the begin­ning, but on the work some­how end­ing up a cer­tain way with­out my intend­ing it to, due to the course of the actual sit­u­a­tion or to the uncon­scious, or to the mood. Well, it means always “favor­ing the inter­est­ing direc­tion.” Eva in par­tic­u­lar is cre­ated in this flex­i­ble man­ner.

— Just because it’s “Eva”, the vast major­ity of peo­ple in soci­ety still believe that [the films are] a prod­uct of Anno-san’s author­ship. This account must have been given many times.

Anno: It depends on the defi­n­i­tion of author­ship, but I don’t really feel that’s the case. That’s because, in my sit­u­a­tion, rather than hav­ing a firm blue­print at the out­set and say­ing, “as an author, I want to depict this theme”, I cre­ate while every day blindly try­ing to work out what I can do to make things inter­est­ing. It’s not a way of doing things where I start with the fin­ished form and cre­ate [the work] aim­ing at that. Until the first screen­ing I don’t know how it will end up; I do noth­ing but con­stantly change things in order to make it inter­est­ing. I do that up until the very last minute of the sched­ule. It’s like this every time. Well, it’s a lot of trou­ble for the staff.

It’s some­thing like, “the prin­ci­ple of the supremacy of the work”, or that I want to place more impor­tance on what will be of ben­e­fit to the work than on what I want to do per­son­al­ly. I think that’s what’s impor­tant. Well, I’m not con­cerned about my author­ship and so on. I feel, more than any­thing, if the work is inter­est­ing, if it becomes more inter­est­ing, that’s good. I just have the respon­si­bil­ity of ulti­mately choos­ing, in accor­dance with what is pos­si­ble to com­plete on time, what seems like it will end up being the most inter­est­ing idea or way at a given point in time.

I’m able to amuse and enter­tain the cus­tomers who pay to see [what I make]. If I put some­thing in which makes them feel unpleas­ant, that’s also done with their inter­ests in mind. Com­mer­cial films are both works [of art] and prod­ucts. You’re cre­at­ing for the peo­ple who watch them. I’ve always thought our job was [a part of] the ser­vice indus­try.

— Although I felt that try­ing to treat Anno-san as an author was out of place with an eval­u­a­tion of “Break”, I was some­how sat­is­fied by what you said just now. [??]

Anno: Because, for Eva, I’m at the core of the actual work, writ­ing the orig­i­nal sce­nario and the scripts, I think that some­thing like my author­ship will leak out or seep through no mat­ter what, but I feel that much is just right. Unlike manga or nov­els, you cre­ate as a group, which is some­thing I love about film work. Of course, there is also a method of cre­at­ing which says, “the pur­pose of the staff is to put the vision of the direc­tor onto film with­out the slight­est devi­a­tion”. Anime in par­tic­u­lar points in this direc­tion, since, as a mat­ter of effi­cien­cy, it’s well suited to the real­iza­tion of a vision. For peo­ple who want to cre­ate an image along the lines of their visions, this is the rec­om­mended [form of] visual expres­sion. But, if [anime is] well suited to real­ize a long-pre­pared vision, I think the work will end up being more inter­est­ing if, as far as pos­si­ble, one were to com­bine the visions of var­i­ous staff mem­bers, rather than just estab­lish­ing a sin­gle vision. I think, if the work has a heart or a core, then it’s bet­ter if the image is entirely [thrown into] chaos. Rather than a whole with a sense of uni­ty, I pre­fer that it be lack­ing in some respects. I think that human beings and human soci­ety are them­selves like this, and that if the work too is com­posed of a vari­ety of things, it will be more real for the audi­ence, or carry a greater sense of real­i­ty. So, a cos­mos forms in the midst of com­plete chaos, accord­ing to the inten­tion of the direc­tor, or else nat­u­ral­ly. That’s good. That’s how Eva is cre­at­ed. Over and over again—it’s extremely diffi­cult.

Part 8


New scenes nec­es­sary in order to bring Shinji towards adult­hood

— Dur­ing voice record­ing, two ver­sions of sce­nes, for exam­ple the cable car [i.e. the NERV tram] scene, were record­ed. Was this [a kind of] insur­ance based on the assump­tion that there would be cuts?

Anno: It was among other things [a kind of] insur­ance, but in the end [that scene] was cut. Work [on that scene] pro­gressed to the lay­out stage, but when I watched the rushes through, the only infor­ma­tion there was Asuka play­ing a game by her­self, Kaji appear­ing and [the film] com­mu­ni­cat­ing to the audi­ence that he knows Mis­ato, and the meet­ing between Shinji and Kaji. I thought the amount of essen­tial infor­ma­tion was slight, con­sid­er­ing just how much was being crammed into a sin­gle sequence. That was the only pur­pose of the scene. This was a mis­take of the script. Tsu­ru­maki said, “this scene makes no sense.” Because it was sto­ry­boarded from an early ver­sion of the script, it was still forcibly includ­ing the image [of the meet­ing] from episode 8 of the TV series. I thought it was­n’t very good to include Mis­ato there. How­ev­er, when that scene was cut, Shinji and his friends ended up not meet­ing Kaji until the aquar­i­um, [and you end up ask­ing,] when did they get to know each oth­er? How­ev­er, for a num­ber of rea­sons, I cut it.

— Sur­pris­ing­ly, I did­n’t notice that Shinji and Kaji first met at the aquar­i­um.

Anno: That’s because you know the TV series. You had that image in mind before watch­ing [the film], so to a cer­tain extent you saw it in that way, but I think some­one who did­n’t know the TV series would defi­nitely have caught it. So, because the ini­tial meet­ing between Shinji and his friends and Kaji is an essen­tial scene, we remade [the meet­ing] from the sto­ry­boards upwards and included it in 2.22.

— The new aquar­i­um-like sequence at the water purifi­ca­tion plant takes on much of the weight of the [char­ac­ter?] depic­tions, but was there a spe­cial inten­tion behind it?

Anno: It was to depict some­thing Shinji had to know about. Some­thing like “the enor­mity of the world.” [I wanted to depict] the sea and the sky and the earth, in a con­crete way. If only the school and the city were depicted the whole way through, then that exten­sity would never emerge. As well, I wanted to put it in as a par­tial depic­tion of what really hap­pened to the world to make the seas red.

— For the earth, there’s the scene where he’s gar­den­ing with Kaji.

Anno: Right. This time as well, Kaji takes on the role of the adult who broad­ens Shin­ji’s knowl­edge. Kaji does the rite-of-pas­sage type things that bring [a child] closer to adult­hood and which one’s par­ents would do in a nor­mal sit­u­a­tion. The action of Shinji touch­ing the earth in the [wa­ter­mel­on] patch was added after­wards. At the ear­li­est point, due par­tially to the diffi­culty of the sakuga17, Shinji only looked at the water­mel­ons with Kaji; he did­n’t help out with the weed­ing. How­ev­er, after the pre­miere of “Pre­lude,” I went to Yam­a­gata to col­lect infor­ma­tion with my wife and her friends. For the first time in a long time I gath­ered up wild plants to eat, and I felt that this was of course the sort of sit­u­a­tion that Shinji needs. I remem­bered the scent of the earth, some­thing I had for­got­ten. It was owing to that real-life expe­ri­ence that I added Shinji pulling up the weeds. Although I pulled up weeds often when I was a child, after I went to Osaka and Tokyo, I no longer did it at all. Recently I moved to Kamaku­ra, and once again my oppor­tu­ni­ties to come into con­tact with the soil have increased. It’s owing to my wife that I’ve been able to have this sort of expe­ri­ence [again]. From the bot­tom of my heart, I am grate­ful [to her].

Part 9


Through the col­lec­tive effort of a num­ber of cre­ators, com­pletely revised angel designs

— I would like to inquire about the angels as a new ele­ment this time around. Were the images of the angels basi­cally some­thing that you put for­ward?

Anno: For the third angel, I did the rough orig­i­nal sketch. The con­cept was that it had already been cap­tured, dis­sect­ed, ana­lyzed, and securely stored away by human beings. So, the image was that of a spec­i­men, the enor­mous skele­ton of a liv­ing being. Also, because we asso­ciate skele­tal mon­sters with Ste­gon18, we jok­ingly dis­cussed giv­ing it the abil­ity to spew cor­ro­sive liq­uid from its mouth as a weapon (laugh­s).

— Why did you end up choos­ing [Mo­hi­ro] Kito­h-san?

A: Because his designs are unique and inter­est­ing. I asked for some­thing more along the lines of than . I thought that the image of the dragon king’s palace [to do with Naru­taru?] was inter­est­ing, and that I would try cre­at­ing an angel along the lines of that impres­sion.

— Was it cre­ated assum­ing that it would be in CG?

A: That’s right. Assum­ing it would be in CG, I had the image in mind of [a crea­ture that was] basi­cally just bones. Also, think­ing that you might not get a sense of move­ment if it did­n’t have some kind of legs, I added small ones. When we set it in motion, the impres­sion it con­veyed some­how became more cute than fright­en­ing. I thought, because of this, it could become pop­u­lar with wom­en, too (laugh­s). For the move­ment of its neck and tail, I of course had in mind the souen19 of tokusatsu.

— The sev­enth angel was in the old famil­iar Hei­wa­jima style.

A: That did­n’t come from me. It was an idea pro­posed by (Daizen) Komat­su­da-kun and Shigeto Koya­ma-san togeth­er.

— There is a spik­i­ness to it rem­i­nis­cent of the Toshiba IHI pavil­ion at the .

A: I felt that, as it was con­structed out of a num­ber of iden­ti­cal com­po­nents, like [a con­struc­tion with] blocks, geo­met­ri­cal, and pos­sess­ing many com­po­nents, it could­n’t be drawn by hand, and was best suited to CG. I [?] did express the opin­ion that it might end up being like the World’s Fair pavil­ion20. The final result tended a bit towards being “art”, but I thought it was good.

The design of the sev­enth angel changed repeat­ed­ly. When we were first doing work on “Pre­lude,” I requested a design in advance from oka­ma-san. The stu­dio was not yet ready for com­mis­sions [?]; this was at a con­sid­er­ably early stage. Any­way, I had him make many draw­ings with no pre­de­ter­mined image, and then we would go back and forth in response to them. As, at this stage in the work, it was so early that the visual image of the new films had yet to fully solid­ify in my mind, I had oka­ma-san just draw for me. After­wards, we had a plan in place where Unit-02 would be intro­duced by div­ing from mid-air to bat­tle an angel in the water. So, an image of, or com­mis­sion for, an aquatic angel that we could get away with not hav­ing move very much was decided upon. Since [de­pict­ing] Unit-02 here would use up our sakuga-draw­ing time, I decided from the begin­ning to do the angel in CG. How­ev­er, before the “taste” of oka­ma-san’s angel could really come togeth­er, I became busy with “Pre­lude,” and that [ear­lier] work seemed to spon­ta­neously come to an halt.

So, when work resumed on “Break” after the first “Pre­lude” screen­ing, I told Komat­su­da-kun, who was in charge of that scene, that we could change the sto­ry­boards, and I asked him if he had any ideas. At that point he and Koya­ma-kun pre­sented their pro­pos­al, and although I apol­o­gized to oka­ma-san for doing so, I decided to use it. As the angel would only appear briefly, as, so to speak, a “yarare21 mecha”, I wanted it to have a visual impact. That was some­thing the pro­posed design pro­vid­ed. In addi­tion, it was good that the struc­ture of the design, includ­ing the move­ment, was well-suited to CG.

— What about the 8th angel, which you called the “falling angel” in pro­duc­tion?

A: To start with, I asked (Takashi) Watabe-san [to do the design]. His design incor­po­rated alter­ations while pre­serv­ing the image of the orig­i­nal. The idea or con­ceit whereby the angel unfolds from a spher­i­cal shape was con­tributed by Watabe-san at this point. Only I felt his design was a bit too bio­log­i­cal to be well-suited to CG. I wanted some­thing with a strong visual impact, sim­ple and geo­met­ri­cal as well as excit­ing. [Con­sid­ered] as a [men­tal] image, it’s [re­al­ly] just [some­thing] falling, so I wanted to have that feel­ing visu­al­ly. When I thought, who would be well-suited for this, then I real­ized, of course, it could only be Mahiro (Maeda). It was great, as we had time on the sched­ule, and Mahiro attacked the work enthu­si­as­ti­cal­ly. He sub­mit­ted things like a visual image of some­thing the color of squid ink mov­ing, and a design where mys­te­ri­ous human forms danced along the bot­tom of a sphere. I liked that there was a strange kind of con­tin­ual motion.

As I recall, the angel con­ceal­ing itself when it first appears with a kind of mosaic effect22 was con­ceived dur­ing the mak­ing of the pre­view trail­er. I did­n’t want to clearly show the forms of the angels in the trail­er. So, not know­ing what to do, that was a des­per­ate mea­sure, but the result was good. Fur­ther­more, the cov­er­ing of itself with the A.T. Field and the deploy­ment of the field as a rud­der were ideas that we came up with on the spot and incor­po­rated while view­ing the out­put dur­ing the CG work.

— What about the human form that finally emerges from within [the angel]?

A: As it becomes entan­gled with Unit-01, I decided that it would be the only part [of the angel] to be drawn as sakuga. I asked (Yoshi­to) Asar­i-san, who was occu­pied in the stu­dio with the 10th angel’s design, if he would be able to do yet another task for me, and had him draw a few rough sketches or idea sketches on the spot. I have a feel­ing [this] com­mis­sion was made rel­a­tively early on. I had Hon­da-kun make a final con­sol­i­da­tion of the idea sketch­es. Later on, once Mahi­ro’s full design was com­plete, I had Hon­da-kun redraw the design all over again in order to give it con­sis­tency or iden­ti­ty. That became the form [of the angel] we would put on the screen.

— I heard that the CG team had a great deal of diffi­culty with this angel.

A: Things did­n’t go well at all. [There were diffi­cul­ties with] the sense of enor­mity and the move­ment, and there was not enough time. We con­tin­u­ally exper­i­mented with the image [of the angel] with­out it becom­ing set­tled. The work around that point went on in a total state of con­fu­sion. Again, we were doing a vari­ety of things right up until sat­suei.

— I heard that the part where [the angel is] defeated was redone an aston­ish­ing num­ber of times.

A: There were a num­ber of diffi­cul­ties doing that cut—the move­ment of the angel up until it liq­ue­fies, con­vey­ing the size of the angel, the uti­liza­tion of the ini­tial lay­out—and in the end we ran out of time, so we fin­ished the min­i­mum pos­si­ble before the film went to the­aters. Just about the only good thing was (Takashi) Hashimo­to-kun’s sakuga of the wave. Accord­ing­ly, in 2.22 we tack­led [that sequence] once again.

— The onrush of the wave was tokusatsu-esque.

A: That was a scene Masayuki added in sto­ry­board­ing. It was a cut he “ad-libbed” that was­n’t in the script, but the fact that it looked like the way water is poured out in tokusatsu was great. Hashimo­to-kun’s sakuga were excel­lent, the sat­suei and so on also went well, and [it ended up being] a great scene that looks like the prod­uct of an uncom­pro­mis­ing effort. When I first watched the rush­es, I thought that it needed a close up shot—or should I say, that I wanted to see one!—so I asked Norita (Takashi Hashimo­to’s pet name) to add an addi­tional cut. I was aim­ing at the tremen­dous energy of the scene where col­lapses in the TV ver­sion of .23

— Did the design of the ninth angel—that is, of Eva Unit-03—change?

A: Well, the design of Unit-03 itself [re­mained] just about the same, I think. We basi­cally just changed the col­ors a lit­tle bit.

— In the bat­tle with Unit-03, the design of the dummy plug is new.

A: As there was no time at all to alter the design [of the plug] dur­ing the TV series, just about all that we could do was to have a laser disc start spin­ning in the back and change the color scheme with a full screen para over­lay24. This time we finally had the chance [to thor­oughly change it], so I asked (Iku­to) Yamashita-kun to alter the design of the rear inte­ri­or. He sug­gested that we give the rear inte­rior a human form. I wanted the dummy plug to have the sense of a jum­ble of a num­ber of ele­ments: a slimy motion using CG, or a dis­gust­ing­ness to its motion; a robotic cold­ness, and yet a bio­log­i­cal feel­ing that makes it seem like it might con­tain a human being. We took pains with the details of the move­ment, appear­ance, and so on, but the result was good.

— After the dummy sys­tem begins oper­at­ing, it becomes impos­si­ble for Shinji to see what is going on out­side.

A: Right. This time I wanted to empha­size the sense that Shinji could­n’t do any­thing, so we cre­ated a sit­u­a­tion where his hands had been forcibly restrained by lev­er-like devices [?], his mon­i­tors had been com­pletely appro­pri­ated for the usage of the dummy sys­tem, and he could only guess what was hap­pen­ing based on the noises rever­ber­at­ing inside the plug. I thought, the dummy tak­ing his place in the cock­pit, his for­ward field of vision will also be obstruct­ed. The image on the mon­i­tors is infor­ma­tion from the out­side seen from the per­spec­tive of the dummy sys­tem. [Just] an unusual screen image was enough.

— Has the set­tei of the dummy plug itself also changed a lit­tle? There is a scene where Gendo is sug­ges­tively touch­ing [the dummy plug].

A: Right. I’m not sure it will come out in the work, but I am think­ing in terms of a set­tei slightly altered from the orig­i­nal.

— The design of the tenth angel, which cor­re­sponds to the angel from episode nine­teen of the TV series, has also been con­sid­er­ably altered.

A: Right. That was also the result of repeated changes. I wanted to trans­form [the 14th angel from the TV series] into a new angel based on the orig­i­nal design, as I wanted new designs for all the angels in “Break”. Accord­ing­ly, just like with the TV series, I had Asar­i-san draw­ing var­i­ous rough sketches [of the angel’s design] in the stu­dio. I had Hon­da-kun revise those into set­tei.

Only the face remained iden­ti­cal to the TV ver­sion, as the face, I thought, was good, after all. The idea was that it would be more inter­est­ing to start by mis­lead­ing the audi­ence mem­bers who knew the pre­vi­ous work into think­ing for a moment that this was the same angel [as before], and then rapidly trans­form it. The idea came up at a meet­ing between Asar­i-san, Makki, and myself.

— The trans­form­ing, the grow­ing of the ten­ta­cles, and so on, is an idea char­ac­ter­is­tic of Asar­i-san.

A: Yeah. I believe that the foun­da­tion, and many other things, were ideas that came from Asar­i-san. As we were aim­ing at some­thing that would appear the same as before but be in fact differ­ent, Asar­i-san was greatly trou­bled [by the diffi­culty of it].

— When I inter­viewed Tsu­ru­mak­i-san, he said that the “pata-pata” [sound of paper flut­ter­ing; i.e. the paper arms] con­ceit was mate­r­ial that came from the pro­posal for the TV series25, and he was­n’t sure why it was changed [in the film].

A: That was because I thought that its impact was, in the end, likely a one-time thing. Orig­i­nal­ly, at the time of the series pro­pos­al, the ini­tial image was an “origami angel,” a cube that would change shape, going “pata-pa­ta.” Then, it would link up and form a , and so on. That was what we were think­ing dur­ing [the ini­tial] plan­ning. How­ev­er, in the pro­duc­tion envi­ron­ment of a tele­vi­sion series at that time, that sort of depic­tion was very much impos­si­ble. So, that really was a design used in the series pro­posal that existed from the begin­ning. How­ev­er, I intended to at least use the “pata-pata” idea some­where. So, for episode 19, I thought that, as this is the most pow­er­ful angel, I have to use it here. The Moe­bius strip [idea] was con­sid­er­ably sim­pli­fied and brought over to episode 23. But, we were able to do it at that time because we were finally able to use sim­ple 3D CG mod­els as guides for the sakuga.

The “pata-pata” [ele­ment] of the angel was really well done, so it was hard to aban­don it, as a visual [ele­ment] as well [as a design con­cep­t]. But I feel like I took the risk of switch­ing to a differ­ent method of attack because I was search­ing for change.

— Was the new devel­op­ment where [the angel] devours Unit-00 also some­thing you con­ceived dur­ing the ini­tial sce­nar­i­o-writ­ing stage?

A: Well, the sto­ry­line where Unit-01 devours the angel was no longer present at the ear­li­est stage of the plot. For the new movies, from the ear­li­est stage of plan­ning there was a con­cep­tion where “Unit-01 will reach its oper­a­tional lim­it, cease mov­ing, and nearly become absorbed by the tenth angel; in order to save Shin­ji, Rei will forcibly unite Unit-00 with the angel and self­-de­struct.” The script was writ­ten accord­ing to that con­cep­tion up until the fifth draft. That changed from the sev­enth draft on to a con­cep­tion where the angel devoured Unit-00. It seemed more nat­ural that, rather than delib­er­ately fus­ing with the angel, Rei would be devoured by the angel and absorbed against her will. I did­n’t arrive at that idea until a great deal of time had passed. I lamented my lack of tal­ent [after­ward­s], won­der­ing why I had­n’t thought of it before then.

— Why had­n’t you?

A: Well, it was as Rit­suko’s line expresses it, some­thing impos­si­ble. [Im­pos­si­ble] in terms of the set­tei in my mind. But I thought that was good, so it was bet­ter this way. I thought, I can just rethink the set­tei to con­form with it (laugh­s). What was impor­tant was the appeal of the cir­cum­stance of the angel devour­ing the Eva.

— Tsu­ru­mak­i-san also said some­thing about want­ing to make the design after the absorp­tion resem­ble a Sen­tai Series vil­lain­ess.

A: I thought, if we put it on screen, it would be a lit­tle too much [like] a man­ga. I felt that, if it has a vaguely human body and bal­ances itself, in cel ani­me, a sym­bolic [means of] expres­sion, it won’t be seen as any­thing but a giant human being. I thought that, if this was live action, there would be a way to do it, but it’s diffi­cult in ani­me. We did­n’t have the time or resources to do some­thing with it. On top of that, Komat­su­da-kun say­ing that he would­n’t allow a woman to be beaten [in the film] was a major rea­son. He had a strong neg­a­tive reac­tion, say­ing that, even if it is not a woman in terms of the set­tei, the male pro­tag­o­nist will be strik­ing some­thing that can only appear [to the view­er] as a wom­an, and that he was unable to direct or depict that. I thought that it cer­tainly isn’t good if we have a per­son reject­ing [the design] to this extent. So, with accu­mu­lated revi­sions, it became the cur­rent design. In color coor­di­na­tion, there were still a vari­ety of issues con­cern­ing what to do about base col­ors and what to do about irowake26. Final­ly, it reached its cur­rent form.

Part 10


The Eva designs change with “Break”

  • In part D, there is a new devel­op­ment where Mari acti­vates Unit-02’s bes­tial­ized form, “the beast.” How did you decide upon that?

Anno: I wanted Unit-02 to go out of con­trol, but it would be dull if it was just the same as with Unit-01. So [the con­cept] arose when I asked for sug­ges­tions. It com­bined ideas from Shin-chan and Yamashita-kun. I think it was Yamashita-kun [who came up with the idea of] an Eva being lib­er­ated by the con­trol rods com­ing out of its body. The addi­tion [of the struc­ture of the rods] resem­bling the dor­sal fin of a mon­ster, and other things, [was made], I think, in Shin-chan’s image boards. My mem­o­ries of that period are a lit­tle unclear.

The strug­gle to depict the [Eva’s] aban­don­ment of human­ity was [sure­ly] diffi­cult. I got [some peo­ple] to do some­thing about it by way of deploy­ing good sakuga. Real­ly, they did an excel­lent job, with no time for Unit-02’s sakuga on the sched­ule. Incred­i­ble. As is typ­i­cal of them.

— It seems that the design of Mark.06 is a bit differ­ent than it was in the pre­view [at the end] of “Pre­lude.”

An.: It’s fun­da­men­tally the same. The design of Unit-06 was more or less com­pleted dur­ing work on “Pre­lude.” For this film, only a few bal­ance-re­lated adjust­ments were made. The dark blue col­or­ing, too, was decided upon from the out­set.

— This was the Eva that you intended Kaworu to pilot.

A: Yeah. In the ear­li­est ver­sion of the script I thought he would make a showier entrance, but [in the end] I felt hav­ing him be so quiet was bet­ter for the scene.

— The lance we see at the lunar base is the same one that appears in the final scene.

A: Yeah. I think, because we cov­ered it up, it was hard to under­stand as fore­shad­ow­ing, but I thought that much was fine. The lance also has a name, which was sup­posed to appear in Kaworu’s final dia­logue. How­ev­er, as the events of the story prior to that changed, it ended up not com­ing in. Even so, in the fifteenth draft, Kaworu was going to say a num­ber of things. How­ev­er, in the final six­teenth draft, that part was cut out entire­ly, because it was bor­ing to have him just recite the set­tei.

— How was it doing Eva design once more?

A: I had deter­mined in advance that Unit-05 would be done in CG, so from the begin­ning it had the set­tei of being pro­vi­sion­al. Because of that, from the [de­sign] requests onwards, it was decided that it would not be bipedal. At the ini­tial uchi­awase [for Unit-05] with Yamashita-kun, I said some­thing like, it could move on cater­pil­lar treads, and when it stands erect shift to bipedal move­ment as well. I wanted to try doing the rolling move­ment of ritai and pivot turns27 in CG. How­ev­er, that was rejected by Yamashita-kun, who said that he did­n’t want to do it because it would resem­ble Shin Get­ter-3 (sad expres­sion). Due to that, it [was given] a four-wheel type of move­ment. That way, it could drift, and also con­vey a feel­ing of speed­ing along, so that was fine too, I thought.

Since I wanted to avoid hav­ing it fight hand-to-hand with [small] hand-held weapons, it was given a lance, which only had to thrust, and a claw as its weapons. As an anti-an­gel weapon, a lance had [some­thing of] the image of the lance of Long­i­nus, and it also made it feel like [Unit-05’s] oper­a­tion had been spe­cial­ized, so I thought that would be good.

The idea of giv­ing it power through a trol­ley sys­tem28 also came from Yamashita-kun. That was good, as it also changed things visu­al­ly, and again gave the feel­ing that [Unit-05’s] oper­a­tion had been spe­cial­ized for [use] within the base. After Yamashita-kun’s work had fin­ished I added a few minor details. I believe the work of revis­ing the model was ter­ri­ble [for Yamashita]. Though I was sorry about that, there was noth­ing I could do.

Since the main body was devel­oped jointly by Europe and Rus­sia, the col­or­ing inte­grates the images of the R-type rocket29 and the Eurostar in an eas­ily under­stand­able way. Even though we had this image [of inte­grat­ing the R-type rocket and Eurostar] we strug­gled to achieve a bal­ance in the color scheme and we ended up tak­ing time. Although at one point we set­tled on a scheme, the large num­ber of col­ors was annoy­ing, so I asked [Ya­mashita] to redo it once more, ton­ing down the col­or­ing. The dig­i­tal com­po­nents really caused great diffi­cul­ty.

Since [work on] “Pre­lude” I had been think­ing that, if we were tak­ing the trou­ble to make a new work, then I would change Unit-02[’s design] as well. I thought to sim­ply add a pair of fins or antenna to bring out [or alter?] the shape of the head, but when I gave it to Yamashita-kun, he changed [the design] a lit­tle too much, so I asked Shisho (Takeshi Hon­da’s pet name), [serv­ing as] a sakkan, to make the final adjust­ments. What resulted was like the bow of a war­ship. Maybe that was due to the fact that around that time I was pro­duc­ing the Yam­ato model design (laughs)30. The col­or­ing was estab­lished to con­form with [the style of] Unit-01 and Unit-00 in “Pre­lude.” I remem­ber hav­ing diffi­cul­ties with the color of the arms. This time around—­for Unit-01, as well—we changed the col­ors of things like the mul­ti­-lay­ered chest armor plates and the spinal cov­er­ing a lit­tle. For the arms, too, I added a stripe, think­ing that since this was “series two” I wanted a “Return Of…” [kind of] feel­ing. Hon­da-kun changed the ful­l-body pro­por­tions of the Evas of his own ini­tia­tive, [in accor­dance with] how he wanted them to be. As a I men­tioned ear­lier, Unit-06 was just about the same [in “Break”] as in the pre­view [at the end] of “Pre­lude.”

— The designs of the plug­suits changed a lit­tle bit this time around as well.

A: Yeah. I entrusted it to O-Sada, and he changed them a bit for me. I wanted to add a differ­ent feel­ing onto the screen, even if only a lit­tle bit. With Mari, I aimed to dis­tin­guish her from the other pilots by hav­ing her wear two kinds of suits, a gen­er­a­tion behind and a gen­er­a­tion ahead, old and new.

Shinji Higuchi


[TODO: Is this an inter­view or some sort of excerpt from the sto­ry­board sec­tion of CRC? Is it com­plete?]

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=403715#403715 :

Higuchi’s inter­view is really fun­ny, because he seems to really dis­like the “chaotic” way Eva comes together (he said it was the same for 1.0, even with­out the major plot changes… he makes many jokes about the whole thing) and just shuts him­self off from the “scriptwrit­ing” process, and draws what­ever sto­ry­boards peo­ple request from him ^__^ Higuchi com­ments on a bunch of his old sto­ry­boards shown to him by the inter­view­er, and I want to post up the sto­ry­boards + the descrip­tion of each + Higuchi’s com­ments on each one.


[It’s worth not­ing that Higuchi’s por­trait in The Notenki Mem­oirs is the pro­fes­sion­al, a direc­tor who will get things done on time, a pinch-hit­ter; for exam­ple, direct­ing a num­ber of Nadia episodes when Gainax began falling behind.]


“Asuka cor­roded by the ninth Angel. Rough sketch for the image board”.

The Asuka/Kaworu dia­logue in ques­tion is:

KAWORU: This isn't like you.
ASUKA: It's not like me?
KAWORU: Because happiness doesn't suit you.
ASUKA: The happy me... is scary. So I'll return to the usual me.

Patrick Yip:

I am more inter­ested in the sto­ry­board above the Kaworu meet­ing 4 Rei clones. There is a sex scene between giant Rei and Eva-01 in 2.0 ??? (the sto­ry­board explic­itly said it is a sex scene).


It’s a strange scene! It was­n’t used in 2.0; it was based on the orig­i­nally scripted finale, which fol­lowed episode 23 much more closely and was changed very late in pro­duc­tion. Shinji Higuchi drew the sto­ry­board, and made an inter­est­ing com­ment in the CRC inter­views; here is the excerpt. The sto­ry­board is a ver­sion, I think, of this scene from episode 23 of the series.

Higuchi interview

Higuchi: When I watched the pre­view screen­ing, it was [the Asuka pos­ses­sion scene] that shocked me the most. The scene was sup­posed to be cru­el, with Asuka becom­ing “cor­roded” and los­ing her face, but the [fi­nal] treat­ment had become incred­i­bly gen­tle.

— In the first sce­nar­io, her for­tune was to be pierced by a num­ber of ultra­-fine nee­dles.

Higuchi: So it was like the image of a “hedge­hog”. The fact that the nee­dles were directed towards the inte­rior meant that Asuka was becom­ing introp­uni­tive [self-pun­ish­ing].

— There­fore the sce­nario unfolds with Kaworu’s address: “It’s not like you”. In Higuchi-san’s sto­ry­board, the detached skin also becomes a face and addresses [Asuka]. The hor­ror resem­bles “Niku­men”, but from what image did this “peel­ing off” come from?

Higuchi: The order was, “some­thing like ‘.’”

— That’s used in “Mys­ter­ies of the Human Body”31. Dis­sect­ed, three­-di­men­sional objects made by pour­ing resin into donated bod­ies, right?

Higuchi: Right. Here, I was think­ing only of some­thing that peo­ple would hate. Up to then there had been a some­what “poka-poka” mood. Think­ing “this ‘home­room drama’ is not Eva!”, I wanted to con­front [the audi­ence] with some­thing hate­ful. In actu­al­i­ty, from the point of view of the sto­ry, from that point on “hell” begins and that sort of hap­pi­ness does not endure. “Eva” is really like this; that “poka-poka” atmos­phere will descend into chaos! I put that sort of feel­ing of ill-will into my draw­ing.

When that sort of shock­ing thing did­n’t hap­pen, I thought that the devel­op­ment by which the hap­pi­ness that had [been por­trayed] up to that point changes to tragedy prob­a­bly would­n’t occur. As for the Asuka of “Break”, it was a sit­u­a­tion where the entire team was at odds. This being the case, I thought this [scene?] was an absolute “death flag”. I thought about a cru­elty worse than death, and this was the result.

— I thought that this “‘Niku­men’ ver­sion” had been selected [to be used]. It was also used in Tsu­ru­mak­i-san’s sto­ry­boards, and dur­ing the record­ing ses­sions I have a mem­ory of it being record­ed.

Higuchi: As for when and how it was changed, I don’t know, but prob­a­bly the mal­ice [I felt] when I drew the scene was too much for peo­ple to see up front.



Early Provisional Draft Storyboard / Shinji HIGUCHI
Corresponding to section C-1367 of the completed work.
A scene where Shinji leaves Tokyo-3.
For provisional draft storyboards, cut numbers are omitted.

Mari: I'm not interested in boys who run away with their tail between their legs...!
      Are you stupid? [_Anta baka_?] One person almost died? What? Are you a coward?
      Don't take [me?] for granted[?]. Instead, I'll only thank you if you fight.
      Your expression---like you alone carry all the burdens on your shoulders---looks idiotic!
      ... is what Asuka-chan would say if she was here. / MARI: It's not the case that you
      could become God because you piloted Eva. There are people you can save, and people you can't.

— […] As for Mari, there is a scene where she has a con­ver­sa­tion with Shinji after he parts from Mis­ato. She imi­tates Asuka’s man­ner of speak­ing there, right? After­wards, at the cli­max of the bat­tle where Unit-01 grows wings, she is star­ing at it from a dis­tance…

Higuchi: If I had to say, I’d say she was like a female ver­sion of Kaworu.


Early Provisional Draft Storyboard / Shinji HIGUCHI
Corresponding to section C-1456 and following of the completed work.
A scene where Eva Unit-02 battles the 10th Angel in the Geofront.
An unconscious Asuka is restrained within the Entry Plug.

— […] Mari does not pilot Eva-02 dur­ing the cli­max in your June 2007 sto­ry­board.

Higuchi: That’s right, that’s right. We had an uncon­scious, “puppet/doll-like” Asuka rid­ing in Unit-02, right?

Sto­ry­board by Shinji Higuchi: an angel invades & guns fire at it
Early Provisional Draft Storyboard / Shinji HIGUCHI
Corresponding to section C-1676 and following of the completed work.
A scene where the 10th Angel invades Command Center No. 1 of Nerv HQ.
The HQ control tower retracts and gun turrets appear, firing upon the Angel.

— Only, if we look at the first sto­ry­boards they are not com­pletely the same [as the orig­i­nal episode 19]. Masayuk­i-san’s new idea “the com­mand cen­ter becomes a bat­tle­ship” was also insert­ed.

Higuchi: “Let’s add artillery. The artillery of a bat­tle­ship will emerge from the com­mand cen­ter and fire. Tee-hee!” I received a pro­posal like that from Ban­chou [“delin­quent leader”] (Di­rec­tor Masayuk­i), so I drew the sto­ry­board. But that devel­op­ment meet­ing took place much ear­lier than the “Pre­lude” pre­miere, in a dis­tant haze; I don’t know how long ago the con­ver­sa­tion was.

Yoji Enokido


http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=401918#401918 :

As far as I under­stand it, [Yōji] only worked on the movie for three days (at Atami). Prob­a­bly the most impor­tant rea­son for get­ting him on board was to get an “out­sider” to decide on the final cuts to be made (espe­cially con­sid­er­ing the fact, as the inter­view shows, that who­ever had to make those deci­sions risked incur­ring the wrath of the oth­ers ^^). After­wards, he did­n’t know if his ideas would end up being used in the film or not. Later in the inter­view he says he was sur­prised to see a final sequence so close to the idea he pro­posed at Ata­mi.

Accord­ing to Enoki­do, Anno wrote the drafts of each Rebuild script by him­self, and then con­sulted other peo­ple on var­i­ous things after­wards. This is almost the reverse of how he worked on the series, where he described a plot, another writer pro­duced the draft script, and finally Anno amended it.

Also accord­ing to Enoki­do, when Anno explained the “back­ground” (裏設定) of Eva to him at Atami, it struck him as a con­tin­u­a­tion of what Anno had told him 16 years pri­or, when Enokido was writ­ing for Eva. The mood at Atami was on the whole “heavy”.


Excerpt 1


Enoki­do: Because “Rebuild of Evan­ge­lion” is basi­cally a recon­struc­tion of the TV series, we pre­sume that sooner or later Rei II will die. If Shin­ji-kun were to save Rei II it would mean a sig­nifi­cant depar­ture from the TV series. How­ev­er, I believed that the last scene of the film had to be an earth­-shat­ter­ing cli­max. When I had this idea, it was impos­si­ble for me not to com­mu­ni­cate it. I remem­ber, on the third day [of the ses­sion­s], per­form­ing a solo play in front of every­one using hand ges­tures and body move­ments enti­tled “this is how it ends!”

— So, in this play, you per­formed actions like [Sh­in­ji] pulling [Rei] up and out [of the Angel]?

Enoki­do: Right. Rei gets com­pletely absorbed by the Angel. It’s just as though she has died and entered the nether­world. The audi­ence is think­ing that Rei is dead. Despite this, Shinji pilots Unit-01 again in order to save Rei. He cries out “Ayanami!” and reaches for­ward, with an awful noise, through the front of the entry plug. He must estab­lish some means of descend­ing to the under­world. Final­ly, hav­ing grabbed (the unclothed) Rei’s hand, he pulls her out with a sud­den move­ment. I feel I demon­strated this method of res­cue with all my might. I com­pletely trans­formed into Shin­ji. I think every­one was star­ing at me very coldly (laugh).

Excerpt 2


Enoki­do: … I felt the devel­op­ment of the sec­ond half of the TV series was incred­i­ble. Only, I was a lit­tle sad­dened by death of Rei II and her replace­ment by Rei III. For myself, I wanted that Rei who had repeat­edly shared bat­tles and encoun­ters with Shinji to go on to the end. But the orig­i­nal sce­nario for “Break” was, nat­u­ral­ly, sim­i­lar to the TV series, with Rei II self­-de­struc­t­ing. On the morn­ing of the third day [the pro­duc­tion team] stayed togeth­er, I sud­denly had the thought: “What if, in the final scene, Shinji hap­pened to save Rei? … It would be incred­i­ble!” I worked myself up into a fren­zy. Among the rea­sons for my enthu­si­asm was the recog­ni­tion that this would com­pletely over­turn the expec­ta­tions of the audi­ence. When we speak of the most impor­tant “cathar­sis” pro­vided by film, we might say that a film cre­ates in the audi­ence a sense that the char­ac­ters are in dan­ger, only to over­turn it: we go from, “this char­ac­ter is in dan­ger and surely will be badly hurt,” to “it can’t be!” This con­sti­tutes, so to speak, a betrayal of the audi­ence in the form of a sud­den change. This “sal­va­tion” is the essence of the final scene.

Excerpt 3


[Note: I could­n’t quite work out the com­plete mean­ing of the first two sen­tences of this part with­out know­ing the ques­tion Enokido was asked, so I left them out. They seem to relate to Anno and his assis­tant Todor­oki “tak­ing over” the con­cep­t.]

Enoki­do: … At that time I had only decided that Shinji would save Rei II. After­wards, as I was per­form­ing and speak­ing more or less off the top of my head, I was enter­ing a kind of trance state. As is typ­i­cal of me, when I reached the cli­mac­tic scene where [Sh­in­ji] cries “Ayanami!” and begins to walk for­ward, just as I grabbed [Rei’s] hand and pulled [her] upwards, I sud­denly came back to myself (laugh). “Now what hap­pens?” I won­dered. Now, in the film, when Shinji saves Rei, Kaworu-kun sud­denly descends from heaven and impales him with a spear. When I was enthu­si­as­ti­cally per­form­ing the “sav­ing” scene, I could­n’t envi­sion any­thing except Kaworu-kun stab­bing me with some­thing sharp and scream­ing “That’s Enough! Act Respon­si­bly!” (laugh)

Excerpt 4


“In short, Rei or some­one else is caught in a des­per­ate sit­u­a­tion, a sit­u­a­tion in which she absolutely can­not be saved. Shinji saves that per­son by means of an impos­si­ble method. I could not help won­der­ing if the sub­ti­tle ‘The Only Neat Thing To Do’ implied such a scene, which achieves a cathar­tic rever­sal in a mirac­u­lous way”.

Part 1


A Request to Per­fect the Screen­play

— We received a strong demand from Anno-san that an inter­view with Enoki­do-san be included in the “Com­plete Works Col­lec­tion”.

Enoki­do: I see! If that’s the case, I’ll answer enthu­si­as­ti­cally (laugh­s).

— When we were gath­er­ing infor­ma­tion from (Kazuya) Tsu­ru­mak­i-san before the pre­miere, he told us that, in “destroy­ing” Eva, your ideas are being incor­po­rated every­where32. So we’re inter­ested [to talk to you]. Do you remem­ber the first occa­sion when [An­no] reached out to con­sult you?

Enoki­do: The doc­u­ment [pro­duced as a result] still exists, so I brought it.

— Thank you. The story of the exact moment con­tains a strange “pat­tern”, right?

Enoki­do: It was two years ago, so I think there are parts I’ve started to for­get. The first talk was in 2007, I think in late Sep­tem­ber or in Octo­ber.

— So just fol­low­ing the pre­miere of “Pre­lude”?

Enoki­do: Yeah. I went to see the movie, as a fan, soon after it opened. As I watched the pre­view trailer after the end­ing, I thought, “So, from the next film for­ward we get new devel­op­ments? This seems inter­est­ing”.

— You saw it as “a com­plete out­sider”, right? (smiles)

Enoki­do: That night I received a call from “Khara-san” [An­no]. “What do you want to do for the sec­ond film?” “Huh? Me?” I remem­ber a con­ver­sa­tion along those lines.

— The fact that you had seen the first film just before that … it seems pre­des­tined, right? How did you view it?

Enoki­do: It was very inter­est­ing. I think it was a kind of con­for­ma­tion. To this day I still haven’t asked [An­no], but I won­dered, “why choose me for ‘Break’”? I thought it was either because of my col­lab­o­ra­tions with Tsu­ru­mak­i-san on FLCL and Gun­buster 2, or else I had been called because of my con­tri­bu­tions to the scripts of the orig­i­nal “Eva” series as a rotat­ing staff mem­ber.

— When we were con­duct­ing other inter­views, we got the feel­ing that the project reached a “limit”, fol­lowed by some kind of major change. It seems like Enoki­do-san’s ideas were relied on more than what had been devel­oped pre­vi­ous­ly.

Enoki­do: When I was called, there were already sched­ul­ing pres­sures. At that time I also heard that two differ­ent ver­sions of the last scene had been sto­ry­boarded and scrapped.

— That being the case, did you have the impres­sion of see­ing things from com­pletely out­side of the “Rebuild” pro­ject?

Enoki­do: Yes. Because I worked as a scriptwriter on four episodes of the orig­i­nal TV series, I am cred­ited in the “Rebuild” films as a “screen­play con­sul­tant”. How­ev­er, I did no work at all on “Pre­lude”, and at the time I was called to work on “Break”, a com­plete draft of the film’s script already exist­ed. As Anno said he wanted fur­ther changes, I was sent a copy of the script before a meet­ing between us was even arranged. So first of all I read the script, and found it very inter­est­ing.

— What sort of things seemed inter­est­ing?

Enoki­do: To begin with, con­sid­er­ing that “Pre­lude” has to recre­ate episodes one through six in less than two hours, I think they did an excel­lent job orga­niz­ing the film and main­tain­ing bal­ance. The story devel­op­ment is the same; it’s okay if they crowd out the details. That being the case, when I thought about “Break”, I expected that they would do a good job if they man­aged to cover episodes eight to thir­teen or so. But when I real­ized they were attempt­ing to treat every­thing up to episode twen­ty-three in one go, I could­n’t under­stand how they would do it. How­ev­er, when I read the script, I saw how amaz­ingly skill­fully things had been orga­nized. “Just as I expect­ed!” I thought. “Indeed, if they do it like this, the entire series becomes a sin­gle episode”.

— And yet, despite doing so well, they had lost their bear­ings, and asked you to fix things?

Enoki­do: Right… I had received the impres­sion that Mar­i’s char­ac­ter devel­op­ment was not yet com­plete. Fur­ther­more, I think that there were parts that still retained the atmos­phere of a “sum­mary film”. Because an out­side observer often sees fur­ther than the par­tic­i­pants, I thought it would be good to begin by point­ing out these sorts of things. I wrote an entire “plan of orga­ni­za­tion” or “plan of revi­sion”; I believe it was this doc­u­ment here (Dated Octo­ber 13; repro­duced in CRC 2.0 pp. 236–237). To the extent it dis­cusses the plot no changes are made; it’s a “com­po­si­tional memo”. I sub­mit­ted the memo shortly after the script arrived, and after that a meet­ing was arranged, but the loca­tion was not Khara-san’s stu­dio. I was ordered, “Come to Atami!” and I was led away as though I were being abduct­ed. It’s as one expects from “Eva”, right? (laugh)

— That was the “Atami Retreat”, right?

Enoki­do: When I asked, “Why Atami?” I was answered, “If we are to arrange a proper meet­ing, we should go where the food is deli­cious”. That’s a very Anno-like pro­pos­al. As the script had already been writ­ten, there were not sup­posed to be any major changes, and so I had thought that when I sent the memo, that would be it. When we began the “Atami Retreat” on Octo­ber 31st, I was won­der­ing what on earth was going on.

Part 2


The Over­pow­er­ing Char­ac­ters of Rei and Asuka

— So big changes were being intended at Ata­mi.

Enoki­do: The truth is, the day before I went to Atami, I received a call from (Toshimichi) Otsuk­i-san, and I was told that they would leave the con­tent alone, and there was only one mat­ter they wanted to pur­sue. At that time, based on the cur­rent screen­play, the film was pro­jected to run between 130 and 140 min­utes, and the aim was to reduce it to less than 120.

— Besides your­self, who were the mem­bers of the retreat?

Enoki­do: There were the direc­tors, Anno-san, Tsu­ru­mak­i-san, and Masayuk­i-san, as well as (Ikki) Todor­oki-san, who was per­form­ing sec­re­tar­ial duties.

— So you begin the Atami Retreat with the assump­tion that you would be deep­en­ing Mar­i’s char­ac­ter a lit­tle and fine-tun­ing the screen­play to reduce the length of the film, but what was the real­i­ty?

Enoki­do: Con­cern­ing the mat­ter of strength­en­ing Mar­i’s char­ac­ter, Anno-san had already been ask­ing me if I had any ideas, so I started to inves­ti­gate the prob­lem. How­ev­er, as I worked through it, the two­some “Rei and Asuka” was such a pow­er­ful com­bi­na­tion that they seemed to stand in the way. When I tried to inves­ti­gate what made this pair so strong, I real­ized that this com­bi­na­tion fol­lowed the arche­type of the so called “harem anime”, and that all the desires, lusts, and dreams of young men were bound up in them.

One “type” is the girl who was a child­hood friend, who has always been with you since you were born, and with whom there are no new or strange feel­ings. Rei is estab­lished to resem­ble a “mother” in some respects, and so she pro­duces in young men a feel­ing of dis­tance [from things?] as though they were still half in the womb.33 Now, Asuka’s par­tic­u­lar type is that of the girl who comes from a for­eign coun­try. This also pro­duces a very good feel­ing. Prob­a­bly it is the male instinct to think, in some respects, that girls from another world are bet­ter than girls who are famil­iar and close to hand (laugh­s).

— Cer­tain­ly, if we assume that there is a male instinct to “spread” DNA, or prop­a­gate the species by mix­ing het­ero­ge­neous ele­ments.

Enoki­do: The sad­ness and hap­pi­ness of young men is bound up in the fact that they always pos­sess these two con­tra­dic­tory wish­es. The so-called “Harem Anime” genre is for the most part intended to sat­isfy these desires. In “Uru­sei Yat­sura”, Shi­nobu is the Japan­ese girl who was one’s child­hood friend and always by one’s side, and Lum is the “alien girl”. We say “alien”, but [such char­ac­ters] per­haps [have] an “Amer­i­can” image. Rei and Asuka exactly fit the pat­tern of this “per­fect lineup”.

Now, com­ing up with a plan as regards the third girl who must com­pete with this “ulti­mate com­bi­na­tion” seemed to me a very diffi­cult job. In addi­tion, Direc­tor Anno had not, up to this point, devel­oped any­thing him­self, but, express­ing the desire for a com­pletely new char­ac­ter, had left Mar­i’s devel­op­ment to oth­ers.

This being the case, my first pro­posal for an addi­tional type was a Sap­phire (from [Tezuka Osamu’s] Princess Knight) type. If Rei and Asuka are com­pletely differ­ent types, I won­dered if a “neu­tral”, light­hearted type who bat­tles with an “inno­cent” image would be good. At this point, though Anno-san agreed that it would be good, he thought a Wato (Chiyoko) type (from [Tezuka’s] The Three­-Eyed One) would be more real­is­tic, and he got quite excited about it.

How­ev­er, Tsu­ru­mak­i-san, who had been lis­ten­ing near­by, was look­ing at us with a dis­tant expres­sion. It looked as though he was think­ing, “It’s a pleas­ant con­ver­sa­tion [for you], but just who is going to be sad­dled with the diffi­culty of plac­ing that char­ac­ter in the world of Eva?” (laughs) I think the result of final­iz­ing Mar­i’s appeal was that Tsu­ru­mak­i-san was made to suffer with sto­ry­boards.

— Since view­ers were heav­ily antic­i­pat­ing a new char­ac­ter from the first film’s pre­view, you want to give Mari more to do; was that the atmos­phere [at Atami]?

Enoki­do: As we had many con­ver­sa­tions relat­ing to Mari, I think it was. As for other images, there was the part of a Miko-san [shrine maid­en] chan­nel­ing the gods. She is not “prac­ti­cal” like Asuka, but thinks about “deep” things, like some­one who some­how can see mys­te­ri­ous things like those con­nected with the gods. She is not “unworldly” to Rei’s extent and she talks a lot. As noth­ing had yet solid­i­fied, we had these sorts of dis­cus­sions about ideas.

— I have a feel­ing that those ideas influ­enced the final film. What other dis­cus­sions did you have about Mari?

Enoki­do: We did­n’t just dis­cuss her char­ac­ter traits, but we were also tan­gled up in dis­cussing to what extent she should appear in the film. I remem­ber that this caused every­one a great deal of dis­tress. If we wanted to increase her appear­ances we could, but, because we were lim­ited by the run­ning time of the film, the num­ber of scenes depict­ing the activ­ity of other char­ac­ters would be reduced. Even watch­ing the com­pleted film, there are selec­tions we made at the last minute. If we added more Mari, we would have to fur­ther cut strong scenes involv­ing Rei and Asuka, but if we did­n’t, then there would have been no point to putting Mari in the sec­ond film [to begin with]. In the end I think we were impressed with her char­ac­ter and have high expec­ta­tions for her in the future.

— In the orig­i­nal sce­nario Mari was the daugh­ter of a dis­tin­guished Eng­lish fam­ily who kept dogs and cats, and so on; what were the cir­cum­stances [re­lat­ing to that]?

Enoki­do: Speak­ing of that, I also remem­ber con­ver­sa­tions like, “What if we gave her tat­toos of the names of all the pets she’s kept up until now?” For exam­ple, we would insert a bath scene where we see the area from her chest to her stom­ach is com­pletely cov­ered in tat­toos. If she gets asked, “Why do you have them?” she’d answer some­thing like, “They’re the names of all my pets that have died up until now. The tat­toos ensure I don’t for­get them, and that they still ‘live’ with me”.

— That’s a strik­ing char­ac­ter trait.

Enoki­do: Did this devel­op­ment sur­vive or die off? Because Mari has­n’t undressed yet, nobody knows (laugh­s). With things like this, we tried too hard to develop Mar­i’s char­ac­ter traits; when I think back on it, we were only dis­cussing “forced” or “absurd” things. In ask­ing “how can we beat Rei or Asuka?” we had a ten­dency to get a lit­tle bit too much into an “impact con­test”.

— After all, if you want to insert Mari some­where, you have to leave out Rei or Asu­ka. We also heard about this diffi­culty from Tsu­ru­mak­i-san.

Enoki­do: There were ver­sions of the unfin­ished screen­play where Mari appears only at the begin­ning, and does­n’t par­tic­i­pate in the bat­tle at the end.

Part 3


Board­ing ‘Eva’ Again After Six­teen Years

— This memo34 you put out, with what kind of feel­ing was it made use of?

Enoki­do: That was mainly a list of scenes to be cut. At that time we were still won­der­ing whether scenes like the pilots going to eat Ramen together should be left in. I not only par­tic­i­pated in the orig­i­nal TV series but watched it as a fan, so I knew which scenes were my favorites. How­ev­er, as far as the film was con­cerned, I thought it was best to focus on Shin­ji-kun’s scenes. In addi­tion, I would com­ply with (the pro­duc­er) Otsuk­i’s order to bring the film under 120 min­utes. There­fore, I rapidly cut sequences which, although famous, did not have a strong rela­tion to the main sto­ry. How­ev­er, as I did this every­one nat­u­rally saw favorite scenes being cut, one by one, and because of this I was becom­ing increas­ingly shut out by the group (laugh­s). For exam­ple, Anno-san lost his favorite Mis­ato scene…

— Which Mis­ato scene?

Enoki­do: There were many scenes at the start of the script show­ing a deeper friend­ship between Mis­ato, Rit­suko, and Kaji that were dis­card­ed. They were “film-like” scenes and, from the dra­matic per­spec­tive, very good; how­ev­er, because I thought it was best to orga­nize the film around Shin­ji, I pro­posed that they be cut. Because Anno is the chief direc­tor, if he hates a cut he can pre­vent it by say­ing “I want that scene to stay”. How­ev­er, he does­n’t do so. Nev­er­the­less, when he’s dis­pleased the atmos­phere becomes very oppres­sive (laugh­s).

Fur­ther­more, when even Tsu­ru­mak­i-san, the one per­son I expected to sup­port me, started say­ing things like “I’m an Asuka fan, and I won’t be happy if this scene gets cut”, I had a feel­ing like, “Huh?” (laugh­s). At that time, Masayuk­i-san came to my res­cue, say­ing “Look, we should just do as Enoki­do-san says, okay?” I had the impres­sion that I had just barely kept my place [at Atami] (laugh­s). Masayuki prob­a­bly decided to bring “bal­ance” to the ses­sions (laugh­s).

— It was diffi­cult, was­n’t it? (laughs)

Enoki­do: Only, once we had cut a few sce­nes, nat­u­rally the next prob­lem was the oppo­site one; owing to the cuts you could begin to see gaps detract­ing from the orga­ni­za­tion of the whole. As these gaps arose from cuts I had made, nat­u­rally I, as the per­son respon­si­ble, had to fix them. For exam­ple, while in the first half of the film Asuka appears as a char­ac­ter who strongly repels oth­ers, in the sec­ond half she becomes a lit­tle kinder, and devel­ops into a char­ac­ter who is con­cerned with Shin­ji’s feel­ings. This devel­op­ment is cru­cial, but I had a feel­ing that, due to my exces­sive cuts, the basis for this change became too thin. Try­ing to make up for that loss, I had the idea for a scene where Asuka, unable to bear her lone­li­ness, enters, unin­vit­ed, the room of the sleep­ing Shin­ji.35 The scene used in the film was trans­lated from the con­cept almost exact­ly. By insert­ing this scene, it seemed likely that some­thing of a con­nec­tion between the “first half” Asuka and the “sec­ond half” Asuka could be skill­fully estab­lished.

Because I had bro­ken off my jour­ney aboard the TV series in the mid­dle of the voy­age, this time I had the priv­i­lege of board­ing the “New The­atri­cal Edi­tion” in the mid­dle of the voy­age, and I have the pro­found impres­sion that Eva, [for me,] is finally con­nected by a sin­gle line. I had the priv­i­lege of a rare per­sonal expe­ri­ence of which few other exam­ples exist (smiles).

— There’s not many sto­ries of peo­ple bridg­ing a gap of ten years or more.

Enoki­do: Near the begin­ning of “Break”, Asuka says: “It’s not just the color that’s differ­ent. (…) This is the world’s first ‘true’ Evan­ge­lion, designed for real com­bat”. 16 years ago I wrote those lines of dia­logue for episode eight of the tele­vi­sion series. When I heard those lines spo­ken in the movie, I was so over­come with emo­tion I could­n’t speak. There were two sides to the feel­ing: “At last, the line is con­nected”, and “The jour­ney isn’t over” (smiles). I have the impres­sion that the train I departed from has returned as a high­-speed express, and, just as before, I am a pas­sen­ger once more (smiles).

Enokido memos


Memo 1

[‘The first memo is a “group memo” taken down by Ikki Todor­oki on the third day of the Atami retreat and con­tains a list of all the scenes expected to remain in the script. There are some inter­est­ing differ­ences between this and the final film. The final scene appears to be a syn­the­sis of the orig­i­nal Rei “sui­cide scene” and the “Shinji saves Rei” sce­nario.’]

"Evangelion New Theatrical Edition: Break" Screenplay Retreat Memo
2007/10/31--11/2 Atami

"Break" Outline

North Pole: Mari/Unit-05 versus the 3rd Angel

[On Lake ??]: Asuka/Unit-02 versus the 7th Angel (Main Staff Titles)

~ Main Title ~

- Graveyard: Gendo and Shinji visit Yui's grave
Rei's appearance in Gendo's VTOL aircraft.
Shinji returns in Misato's car. Regarding Operation Yashima: "Your father appreciates you, too".
Shinji recognizes Misato's concern.

- Navy port? : Arrival of Unit-02
Misato and Shinji returning from Yui's grave.
Appearance of Mari as Unit-02's backup pilot.
Appearance of Kaji.

- Depiction of everyday life
Kaji and Ritsuko.
Asuka and Mari become part of Shinji's class.
Asuka, Shinji, and Misato's daily life together. A conversation about Misato's scar and Second Impact?
Mari living at Hikari's house.

- Nerv HQ: Synchro Test
Mari's synchro rate exceeds Asuka's.

- The Moon: Gendo and Fuyutsuki observing Unit-06
Meeting with Kaworu.

- Aquarium: Shinji, Asuka, Mari, Hikari, Touji, Kensuke, Kaji
Everyone eats bentos made by Mari and Hikari.
Rei understands the value of cooking.
Asuka is isolated.
Shinji calls Gendo but doesn't get through.
Kaji tells Shinji about Second Impact.

- Spaceship returning from the moon: Gendo and Fuyutsuki viewing the Earth's tragic appearance

- Attack of the 8th Angel
Mari selected as Unit-02's pilot. She is injured from the battle with the 3rd Angel,
but instead of declining, she accepts.
Asuka is shocked.
Shinji asks Mari why she pilots. Mari talks about "severe reality".
A confrontation between Misato and Ritsuko concerning the pilots.

- Battle with the 8th Angel: A victory where Unit-01 takes the leading role
Shinji is praised by Gendo.
"What Misato said was true". Shinji and Misato make eye contact.
Unit-00 and Unit-02 are partly damaged.

- Depiction of everyday life
Conversation between Rei and Shinji. "You seemed like a mother".
Shinji makes Bentos for everybody. Rei, Hikari, Mari, and Asuka eating them.
Conversation between Touji and Shinji. "You've changed".
Rei's room. "Thank you. Words of gratitude. The first time I've used them".

- Rei's tank---A meal with the commander
Rei in the tank. Gendo and Ritsuko, "Rei no Kankei". [Rei's connection? A conversation connected with Rei??]
Rei invites Gendo to a dinner party with Shinji.

- Nerv HQ Lounge---Watermelon Patch
Conversation between Kaji and Shinji.
"Something good happened?" "Somewhat". "You gained some self-confidence?" "A little bit".

- Rei's room---School
Rei practicing cooking.

~ Eyecatch ~

- Misato's Apartment
Asuka making Miso soup. She knows about Rei's plans for her dinner party.

- Unit-04's disappearance
Explanation of Eva's relation to world affairs.
Discussion regarding the Unit-03 activation experiment.

- Preparation for the Unit-03 activation experiment
Unit-02 goes to Sasebo (is this necessary?)
Gendo has the dummy plug installed in Unit-01. Conversation between Maya and Ritsuko.

- Who is the pilot of Unit-03?
Unit-03's activation on the same day Rei plans to have her dinner party.
Asuka understands Rei's feelings for Shinji.
Asuka declares herself a candidate to pilot Unit-03.
Rei phones Asuka "Thank you".
Touji's sister leaving the hospital.

- Unit-03 activation experiment
Conversation between Asuka and Misato. "It's a nice feeling to talk to someone".
Unit-03 taken over by the 9th Angel.

- Battle against Unit-03
Unit-01's dummy plug is installed.
Kaworu watching what happens to Asuka (アスカの成り行きを見ているカヲル).
Shinji refusing to destroy Unit-03 ("I won't do anything" Shinji)
Unit-01 switches over to the dummy system.
Unit-01 crushes Unit-03's entry plug. Asuka, terribly injured.

- Nerv Headquarters
A rebellious Shinji remains inside Unit-01.
Shinji faints due to increased LCL pressure. Unit-01's power stopped.

- Hospital
Rei in the lobby holding a Bento box.
Shinji's dream. "I couldn't forgive my father's betrayal". And so on.

- Nerv Command Room
Conversation between Shinji and Gendo. "I don't want to pilot Eva anymore".

- Shinji leaves Nerv
Hikari, Kensuke, Touji call Shinji.
Ritsuko talking to someone. "Rei, she didn't cry".
Shinji's DAT player abandoned in a garbage container.
Rei's room, abandoned cooking utensils.

- Considering the Location (is the scene itself necessary?)
Conversation between a departing Shinji and Misato. Conversation with Mari?

- 10th Angel Attacks
Nerv battles an Angel that invades the Geofront. The Angel shrugs off every attack.

- Shelter---?
Shinji sees the tragedy of the ordinary people (Nerv staff members?).

- Nerv Command Center
Unit-01 refuses the dummy plug. Gendo facing the cage.

- Watermelon Patch
Conversation between Mari and Shinji. (At the time of the Unit-03 affair, protect Asuka or
kill her and protect the world, there was nothing you could do).

- 10th Angel versus Unit-00
Unit-00 plunges forward with a bomb. Unit-00 is seriously damaged and can no longer fight.
The Angel eats Unit-00. In headquarters, Rei's signal vanishes.

- Watermelon Patch / Geofront
Shinji decides and stars running. Shinji struggles over rubble and other obstacles.

- Nerv Headquarters
The Angel penetrates into headquarters.
Gendo faces a wounded Shinji covered with blood.
"Let me pilot".

- 10th Angel versus Unit-01 (1)
Eva-01 plunges into the command Center.
Eva-01 is shot into the Geofront and attempts to tear Unit-00 apart from the Angel.

- Angel becomes the "corroding type"
Rei's heart wants to be one with Shinji. Unit-00 (taken in by the Angel) corrodes Unit-01.
Unit-01 is accepting and nonresistant. "So you came to trust Rei that deeply, Shinji-kun?"
[そんなにレイに心を許していたのね, シンジ君. In the storyboard, そんなに is そんなにまで
and the line is spoken by Ritsuko.]
Unit-01 is near its power limit.
Rei begins to self-destruct.

- 10th Angel versus Unit-01 (2)
Unit-01's power limit reached.
Unit-01 goes berserk.
400% synchro rate, furious Shinji. Unit-01 plunges its body (arm?) into the Angel. In the same way,
Shinji stretches out his arm inside the entry plug. Rei's hand materializes;
when Shinji pulls her out, her body materializes.
The berserk doesn't stop; Unit-01 transforms into a giant of light.
Unit-01 destroys the Angel with overwhelming power.

- Unit-06 Arrives
Suddenly, a spear flies in. Unit-01's berserk is halted.
Unit-06 enters the atmosphere. Removes Unit-01's entry plug.
Fuyutsuki and Gendo's conversation. "Finally, he has come". "From here, everything begins".
The reunion of Kaworu and Shinji.

~ To be continued ~

Concerning Mari:

- A character like Wato-san from "The Three-Eyed One".
The type who will suddenly initiate physical contact.
"Boku" character
She has very serious thoughts. The most adult of all the pilots.

- Mari lives together with Hikari in Hikari's house.
  They are close friends (Asuka's position in the previous work).
  They make Bentos together, and so on.
- She has the names of the pets she has kept tattooed along her back.

- Asuka thinks Mari is just the backup pilot for Unit-02.
She calls Mari "Hoketsu" [substitute].

Other things:

- Concerning the battle with 8th Angel.
At the time of the operation, Unit-02 flies in via transport?
The 8th Angel materializes from a vortex of clouds resembling the eye of a typhoon.

- When the dummy plug system is put into operation, the dummy plug's "human model" [ヒト型]
  pins down Shinji's body so he can't escape.


Participants: Hideaki ANNO, MASAYUKI, Kazuya TSURUMAKI, Yōji ENOKIDO, Ikki TODOROKI.
Memo taken down by: Ikki TODOROKI.

Memo 2

[‘The sec­ond memo is the one referred to in the inter­view above and is an attempt by Enokido to “develop” the Asuka-Mari rival­ry. Only four pages of this memo are repro­duced.’]

Evangelion New Theatrical Edition: Break
Organizational Plan Draft
2007/10/13 Yōji ENOKIDO

The major elements of the story are fundamentally unchanged.
Mari and Asuka's development will be slightly altered.

At the beginning, after the battle with the Angel at the Arctic Branch,
Mari and Kaji return together to Japan.

On the way, Mari destroys an Angel with Unit-02.

Asuka arrives separately, at the same time as Mari and Kaji.
As both Asuka and Mari are designated pilots of Unit-02, they have a rivalry.
Because Asuka believes that she is unquestionably the true pilot and Mari is a spare,
she is especially strongly attached to Unit-02.
Mari is more composed than Asuka, and appears to be interested in Shinji instead.

After the synchro test results, it is decided that Mari is to be Unit-02's true pilot.
Asuka is shocked.
When the Angel that falls from the sky is defeated, Mari is piloting.
The operation succeeds, but Unit-02 is heavily damaged.

Unit-03 arrives in Japan, and Asuka is chosen as the pilot.
Asuka is delighted. But there is a tragedy.

When Shinji revolts against Gendou and abandons Eva, Mari persuades him to pilot again.

- "Old" North Pole (Pages 1-2)
The scene by itself is not changed. Only:
One thing pertaining to Mari's character development.
Mari is portrayed as the exclusive pilot of provisional Evangelion Unit-05,
but Unit-05 is in the care of the Arctic Base; conversely,
it is to be clearly indicated that she is there temporarily to safeguard the third angel's seal,
and was originally the pilot of Unit-02.
In brief, in this work Asuka and Mari become rivals to pilot Unit-02.
In this case, it's probably necessary to slightly alter scenes,
adding lines like "you're not much like Asuka-chan".

- Pacific Ocean---Old Ito-Area Waters (Pages 2-3)
One is reminded of a return to the naval fleet transport scene from Episode 8,
but the attacking angel is different.
Unit-02 stands on the deck of a ship to meet the angel's attack.
Kaji gazes at the frame of Unit-02, shining deep crimson beneath the open sky.
But, the pilot in the cockpit---is Mari.
Proceeding from the opening scene, Kaji accompanies Mari on her transfer.
So Asuka is not aboard the naval fleet.
Mari destroys the angel with Unit-02.

- The military transport vessel arrives in port (Pages 3-4)
Shinji, Touji, and Kensuke watch Evangelion Unit-02 arriving.
Asuka arrives via a VTOL aircraft (or something similar).
She arrives by herself from Germany.
Asuka, who is convinced she is the exclusive pilot of Unit-02,
boasts to Shinji and his friends about Unit-02 (as in the script).
But, Asuka is shocked when she sees Mari emerge wearing Unit-02's plug suit.
"You used Unit-02 without my permission‽"
Furthermore, when she sees Mari's behaviour with Kaji, she is shocked once again.

- At school---Year 2 Class A (Page 4)
Asuka and Mari are moving into their new places.
Asuka introduces herself as "The true pilot of Evangelion Unit-02".
Meanwhile, Mari's reaction to seeing Shinji.

- At school---By the school gate (Page 6)
Asuka no longer becomes friends with Hikari.
Or, somehow worried about Asuka, Hikari is about to call out to her,
but she is interrupted by Mari calling out to Hikari, etc.

- (Pages 7-8, in and around the scene where Asuka moves into Misato's place --)
Insert a scene with Mari living at Hikari's house.
"I don't like living alone. (For this reason she kept many cats and dogs, etc.)"
"I already have two sisters living here, so one more person doesn't matter".
Mari becomes friends with Hikari.
In short, by becoming the pilot of Unit-02, arriving with Kaji, becoming friends with Hikari,
and so on, Mari usurps Asuka's position in this world.
Mari herself has no evil intention, but Asuka is overtaken.
It's not related to the main story, but if we insert a scene with Hikari's sisters in pajamas
or changing clothes, we can hope for the
"economic result of the African Campaign in Gundam" (ガンダムのアフリカ戦線経済結果).

- Facility for the Preservation of Saltwater Sea-life (Page 8 onwards)
Mari also comes along.
Hikari and Mari have already become intimate friends.
Hikari and Mari have made an O-bentou together, and so on.
* * *
Shinji has been wondering about Asuka and her desire to pilot Eva.
This is because he truly did not want to pilot Eva.

- The Falling Angel (Page 12 onwards)
The Asuka and Mari Synchro Test scene is inserted here. Mari's synchro rate is higher.
As in the TV version, Asuka is on her period. (Despite absolutely not wanting children)
The operation to destroy the falling angel begins.
It is decided that Rei will pilot Unit-00, Shinji will pilot Unit-01, and Mari will pilot Unit-02.
Asuka is shocked.

- Rei and Asuka in the Elevator (advancing the scene on page 18)
Mari is present.
Rei comments on Asuka's low synchro rate.
Asuka becomes furious.

[Pages 4-5 excluded]


- Watermelon Field (Page 47)
The intense fight between the angel and Unit-00.
In a somewhat isolated place, so Shinji just stands and stares at the fight.
He stands in Kaji's watermelon field.
Mari arrives at the watermelon field.
Shinji and Mari meet and stare at one another.
In the background the battle between Unit-00 and the angel continues.
"Why don't you fight? Aside from you no one can do anything; only you can do something, right?"
"... so, you got angry because Asuka was hurt? You're angry at the adults who sacrificed Asuka?
You've just rebelled against the ways of adults?
You've just rebelled against your father?"
"If you don't fight, everybody dies. In the end, both Asuka and Rei will die...".
* * *
Unit-00 battle scene. Rei engaging in a difficult battle.
* * *
"Even if Commander Ikari sacrificed Asuka, he did it to protect everyone... but you won't even do that?"
Suddenly Shinji pushes Mari to the ground. (Or she possibly collapses as a result of an explosion?)
One [or more?] watermelon[s] bounce[s] and break[s] apart.
The red juices stain both of their bodies.
"These are the watermelons Kaji was raising", Shinji mutters.
"They were important to him. But I have no important memories or anything else important to me..".
* * *
Reflection insert (page 19 onwards).
Gendou: Human beings live on by forgetting their memories, but there are some things one must not erase.
* * *
"Just think about it..". Mari says.
"Think about it a little. Maybe, right now, there's nothing important and worth protecting
 for you in this world. But..".
"! (Surprised Shinji)"
Mari now:
A. Kisses Shinji

[All pages after 6 excluded]

Kazuya Tsurumaki



“The CRC 2.0 Tsu­ru­maki inter­view is actu­al­ly, I believe, a revised and expanded ver­sion of an inter­view included in the orig­i­nal Eva 2.0 the­atri­cal pro­gram, includ­ing mate­r­ial from an addi­tion­al, later inter­view.”

Part 1


A major turn­ing point fol­low­ing the ‘Pre­lude’ pre­miere36

— To begin with, I’d like to speak with you for the pro­gram to be dis­trib­uted before the pre­miere. Accord­ing to Chief Direc­tor Anno’s inten­tion, it was decided that we would “pub­lish an inter­view with Makki enti­tled ‘the man who destroyed Eva.’”37 Before we begin, I’d first like to con­firm that you were made aware of that inten­tion.

Tsu­ru­maki: This seems sus­pi­cious (laugh­s). As far as mak­ing me into “the crim­i­nal respon­si­ble for destroy­ing [Eva]” is con­cerned, I’ll resist with all my might.

— Only, if we look at “Break” as a destroyed Eva, surely every­one would want to know the details of how and why this hap­pened.38

Tsu­ru­maki: As far as [the title] “Break” is con­cerned, Anno-san prob­a­bly dis­cov­ered a new rea­son for it part of the way through. As usu­al. Although, I think it would have been bet­ter if Anno-san had taken the lead in destroy­ing [Eva] him­self. [It would surely have been diffi­cult for him to destroy it. I think he well under­stood that, and had no choice [but to do as he did].39] How­ev­er, it was not myself alone who destroyed Eva. Even Masayuk­i-san, or Sadamo­to-san, who writes the man­ga, would have been fine [for the inter­view].

— This suc­cess­ful “destruc­tion” was unex­pect­edly the core [of the film]. So [the con­cep­tion of] a “jo—ha—kyuu” [序破急] struc­ture where you would begin destroy­ing Eva in the sec­ond part was not present from the begin­ning?

Tsu­ru­maki: In the ini­tial stages we thought more in terms of a recap or sum­mary film; we did­n’t think that we would “break” [any­thing]. We decided upon the sub­ti­tles “jo—ha—kyuu” them­selves rel­a­tively early on. They only had the mean­ing “1, 2, 3”—at the time I did­n’t think that “ha” [“Break”] had any spe­cial sig­nifi­cance. The devel­op­ment of the story of “Break” was already under­way before we started work on “Pre­lude”.40

— I have the impres­sion that the devel­op­ment of “Pre­lude” and “Break” began at the same time.

Tsu­ru­maki: Right. We decid­ed, with rel­a­tively few objec­tions, that we would bring “Pre­lude” to a cli­max with episode six of the TV series, and imme­di­ately after that we began devel­op­ing the story of “Break”. How­ev­er, work on “Pre­lude” became increas­ingly hec­tic, so we decided to just focus on mak­ing “Pre­lude” first. We returned to “Break” once we had just about fin­ished “Pre­lude”.

— For my part, I was read­ing through the script for “Break” around the time “Pre­lude” was com­pleted (the lat­ter part of August 2007). Also, (Sh­in­ji) Higuchi-san was sup­posed to have drawn the sto­ry­boards for “Break” that sum­mer. At this point, the con­tents [of the film] are prob­a­bly quite differ­ent [than they were, at that point].

Tsu­ru­maki: It would turn out that more than just the plot would be devel­oped fur­ther. In any case, after the pre­miere of “Pre­lude”, Anno-san pro­posed that we include more of the new char­ac­ter, Mari, and it was decided that we would revisit the script. My impres­sion was that “Pre­lude” was received more favor­ably than expect­ed; fur­ther­more, the pre­view for the next film was very well received. So, I think Anno-san prob­a­bly thought, “I want to give the view­ers more ser­vice”. Prob­a­bly, [his] spe­cific means [of doing that] was to place Mari more promi­nently [in the film].

— Con­sid­er­ing Anno’s “spirit of ser­vice”, that would nat­u­rally be the case, right? So, that would lead to [An­no] increas­ing the num­ber of Mar­i’s appear­ances?

Tsu­ru­maki: The truth is, at the ear­li­est stage of plan­ning, Mari was such a char­ac­ter that, in the extreme case, if she had­n’t spo­ken at all, it would have been okay. For exam­ple, Mis­ato just read­ing the mate­ri­als on her, [and say­ing] “It seems that Unit-05 was in Hong Kong and had a bat­tle with an angel. The pilot was this per­son”—would have been fine, I think…

— In that case, she would become an amaz­ingly weak char­ac­ter.

Tsu­ru­maki: Yeah. The appear­ance of a new char­ac­ter and Eva Unit-05 was requested by exec­u­tive pro­ducer (Toshimichi) Otsuk­i-san. I think the motive was a com­mer­cial one—to strengthen the appeal of the film.41

— Sure­ly, the new films them­selves become a bur­den to the extent they rep­re­sent a story that pre­ex­ists the new char­ac­ter; you had to “cre­ate care­fully”, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: [Yes,] because at first we intended [sim­ply] to sum­ma­rize the orig­i­nal series. For exam­ple, the cur­rent struc­ture in which the new char­ac­ter is actively involved before the main titles was put in place at that stage in the film’s plot [de­vel­op­men­t]. In addi­tion, [she] would appear only once more, watch­ing the bat­tle just before the cli­max. That was the extent to which she appeared.

— So, she was hardly related to the char­ac­ters of the orig­i­nal sto­ry.

Tsu­ru­maki: It’s Anno-san’s usual method. He allows pos­si­bil­i­ties to remain with­out mak­ing up his mind. By no means have things been decid­ed. Because, if he was bound to a deci­sion, he would­n’t be able to do any­thing but that. He was still unde­cided about how to han­dle her, and at that time he prob­a­bly thought that intro­duc­ing her but leav­ing her with­out defi­nite rela­tions [to any­thing] would be safe for the moment.

— I see. In a differ­ent set of cir­cum­stances,42 I would also have thought, “As expect­ed, the sto­ry­line of Eva is quite fixed, and new inter­ven­tions are not pos­si­ble”.

Tsu­ru­maki: Nat­u­ral­ly. There­fore, dar­ing to have her appear at the core of the sto­ry, even more, bring­ing her close to the cen­ter of the dra­ma—in short, we intended to make her a char­ac­ter who would change the sto­ry. That was the major shift fol­low­ing the pre­miere of “Pre­lude”.

Part 2

What occurred with the increase of Mar­i’s scenes43

— The result being that [the sto­ry] would become increas­ingly differ­ent from the script that you had pre­pared?

Tsu­ru­maki: We were almost start­ing every­thing over again. We had hardly thought about what would be changed, and how it would be changed, in order to incor­po­rate Mari. It was from that point, I think, that we really began.

— So, the ques­tion of how to destroy Eva ends up really being the ques­tion of how to con­nect Mari [to the exist­ing sto­ry].

Tsu­ru­maki: Right. How­ev­er, while we had resolved to change [the sto­ry], Anno-san had for one rea­son or another not thought at all about the ele­ments of Mar­i’s char­ac­ter. As a result, I was con­tin­u­ally request­ing expla­na­tions in regard to them. When I requested an expla­na­tion of Mar­i’s char­ac­ter before we began doing the sto­ry­boards for the pre-ti­tle sequence, Anno-san gave me a rather abstract, “the­matic” expla­na­tion.

— “The­mat­ic?”

Tsu­ru­maki: It was, “By intro­duc­ing Mari, we will destroy the world of Eva”. Con­cern­ing this idea of Mari as a char­ac­ter who rep­re­sents the sub­ti­tle “Break”, the expla­na­tion that we would directly project her “the­matic” char­ac­ter traits onto the story was not suffi­cient, so I just smiled and nod­ded. How­ev­er, we were about to draw the sto­ry­boards with­out some­thing essen­tial—­Mar­i’s con­crete char­ac­ter was unde­ter­mined. The result­ing stress would con­tinue for a long time [after that].

— The estab­lish­ment of her char­ac­ter—in other words, her per­son­al­i­ty?

Tsu­ru­maki: Is she a girl with a calm demeanor, or a girl with an intense per­son­al­i­ty, or a dojikko [clumsy girl]? Even that much was­n’t clear. I felt like it changed each time the script was revised. Even if the theme of her char­ac­ter was “the destruc­tion of Eva’s story”, there were numer­ous con­crete ways you could con­ceive of doing that. In the extreme case, she could “steal” Shinji and destroy all his rela­tion­ships up to that point, or act as a “non­sense” char­ac­ter who would destroy the “seri­ous” world­view [of Eva]. As there was no trace of a [fixed] method­ol­ogy accord­ing to which she would destroy [Eva], the argu­ments con­cern­ing her con­tin­ued end­less­ly.

— Which parts did the argu­ments cen­ter upon?

Tsu­ru­maki: Cer­tainly Mar­i’s appear­ances had increased. Fur­ther­more, if there were scenes where Mari appeared by her­self, that was still fine. Even in the early stages of the plot[’s devel­op­men­t], we did­n’t really feel that such scenes were a prob­lem. The diffi­culty lay in her rela­tion­ships with other char­ac­ters. Espe­cial­ly, if we intended to por­tray a rela­tion­ship between Shinji and Mari, it would entail strange things hap­pen­ing. At one point she would have Rei Ayanami’s role in rela­tion to Shin­ji, at another point Asuka’s, at another point Mis­ato’s. There was a sense that her char­ac­ter was chang­ing depend­ing upon the cir­cum­stances of each scene. In the first place, if it’s Rei’s role, Rei her­self can do it, and if it’s Asuka’s role, Asuka her­self can do it. To the extent that this newly arrived char­ac­ter, Mari, is just par­tially sub­sti­tut­ing for roles that other peo­ple have car­ried out up until now, the story itself is really unchanged. My impres­sion was, if that’s going to be the case, Mari is prob­a­bly not need­ed.

Because a new char­ac­ter is intro­duced, nat­u­ral­ly, it’s already become a differ­ent sto­ry, but if we step back and look at it, almost noth­ing has changed. That’s use­less. As a result, on one occa­sion Anno-san handed off this prob­lem to [Yōji] Enoki­do-san. Basi­cal­ly, he told [Enoki­do] that he wanted to cre­ate a plot in which Mar­i’s char­ac­ter was more devel­oped. It’s not a brief sto­ry; I remem­ber think­ing that it was quite a seri­ous sit­u­a­tion. For my part, because I thought the fact that Anno-san was writ­ing the scripts him­self44 was an impor­tant char­ac­ter­is­tic of the new films, it [seemed] all the more [se­ri­ous]. Par­tially because of that, Enoki­do-san’s posi­tion, it seemed, was that he would absolutely not sub­mit plots or scripts, but [on­ly] ideas. What came out of this was an extremely eccen­tric, inter­est­ing, Enoki­do-like idea. In short, [Enoki­do] proac­tively made use of the fact that Mari could not sim­ply act as a sub­sti­tute.

— In spe­cific terms, how did [Enoki­do] intend [Mari] to act?

Tsu­ru­maki: To put it sim­ply, it was an idea where Mari com­pletely usurped Asuka’s role. For exam­ple, Asuka is unable to pilot Unit-02, because Mari is con­stantly get­ting to things before Asu­ka. Mari even thrusts her­self into the mid­dle of the rela­tion­ship between Shinji and Asuka; [Asuka is] com­pletely thwart­ed. Even though Asuka makes a great effort to ful­fill the role she played at the time of the TV series, because Mari is always there it becomes impos­si­ble for her to do it; some­thing like that.

— That’s inter­est­ing.

Tsu­ru­maki: The reac­tion of Asuka fans to it would prob­a­bly be ter­ri­fy­ing (laugh­s). Because, in Enoki­do’s idea, Asuka, thwarted by Mari, is never able to pilot Unit-02. There were voices on the staff point­ing out the size of the risk [in­volved], but Anno-san some­how under­stood [the idea], say­ing, “Well, I’m going to take that idea and put it in the script”. How­ev­er… [this idea] imme­di­ately went back to the draw­ing board (laugh­s).45 For exam­ple, when Asuka tries to pilot Unit-02 at the time of the bat­tle with the eighth angel, she is told by Rit­suko, “Mari, the pilot who arrived on short notice from Europe, can pilot Unit-02, so you are on standby”. Asuka is mor­ti­fied. That was Enoki­do’s idea, but in Anno-san’s script, he changed it so that the two of them would be pilot­ing Unit-02 together (laugh­s).

— “” (laugh­s)?46

Tsu­ru­maki: It’s excus­able to just focus on the good things, but [An­no] was try­ing so hard to please every­body that the story was becom­ing con­fus­ing. Prob­a­bly Anno-san thought that the story would not change unless he could deeply con­nect Mari to it, and for this rea­son he tried to place all the respon­si­bil­ity for chang­ing the story upon Mari. Nev­er­the­less, con­trary to his inten­tions, even though he had tried to intro­duce Mari, he was not able to change the sto­ry.

— It’s as though some mys­te­ri­ous, com­pelling force was oper­at­ing.

Tsu­ru­maki: But, I some­how under­stand that every­one expe­ri­ences this. We don’t change [so eas­i­ly], even though we swear, “start­ing tomor­row, I will change!” (laughs) Being unable [to change] despite know­ing [you should]; that’s some­thing com­mon to every­one. I think, in due time, Anno-san will reveal the real rea­son [for its exis­tence] him­self, but when Masayuk­i-san first did the sto­ry­boards for the bat­tle with the eighth angel, the scene where the two pilot together was sto­ry­board­ed, based upon the plot [at that time].

— How [did Anno] get them both onto [the Eva]?

Tsu­ru­maki: It’s as though Asuka secretly got on ahead of time (laugh­s). It was­n’t just there, [though]. Things like that con­tin­ued to hap­pen almost entirely through­out. So, we were truly in diffi­cul­ty. [An­no] said there would be changes in “Break”, and in prac­tice more than 90% [of the film] was [com­prised of] new sce­nes, but, even though we had taken the trou­ble to pro­duce this new mate­ri­al, the story had not changed. Of course the sit­u­a­tions, the char­ac­ters, and the dia­logue had changed. How­ev­er, if we exam­ine the sig­nifi­cance of what was done there, we will get some­thing like, “Eh? This hap­pened in episode xx”, or “This scene [could go] in episode xx”.

— Hmm… It’s as though you repainted [Eva], but the sense or sig­nifi­cance of the TV series rose to the sur­face from the foun­da­tion.

Tsu­ru­maki: So, it was com­ing to seem like a sum­mary ver­sion made with some slightly new mate­r­i­al. A while ago, I had been told that the “Evan­ge­lion” TV series was quite rigidly fixed; it was, I think, cer­tainly like that.47 It seemed like, if you change things in one place, things go badly not only there but else­where as well; a host of deriv­a­tive prob­lems arise. If you try to fix it, it’s an enor­mous task to make the story con­sis­tent every­where.48

— Even if it goes well, won’t the “spirit” of the orig­i­nal series still end up dwelling there?

Tsu­ru­maki: Yes. This sort of thing con­tin­ued, and for a while we were truly in diffi­cul­ties. I think that was the main rea­son the script could­n’t be fixed, and that as a result [we] spent so much time doing sto­ry­boards.

— Even though they were delib­er­ated to the point of stag­ing a retreat for the script, there were some things that just could­n’t be “boiled down”, right?49

Tsu­ru­maki: Well, I think the Atami Retreat, which Enoki­do-san par­tic­i­pated in, was extremely worth­while. An auda­cious idea for the last scene, which was almost all right [as pre­sent­ed], emerged there. That was the devel­op­ment, which remains now, whereby Shinji res­cues Rei. As far as the film’s cli­max goes, the work to be done after that hardly con­cerned us. The diffi­culty was arrang­ing for Mar­i’s involve­ment, [which was nec­es­sary] in order to bring the story to that point. The most sim­ple solu­tion was—just as in the early stages of the sto­ry—to keep Mar­i’s appear­ances to a min­i­mum, to leave her with no rela­tion­ship with Shinji or Asuka, and for [the sto­ry] to fol­low a course sim­i­lar to the TV series. In the end, this [ap­proach] would go the most smooth­ly.50

— A course lead­ing up to episode 19 of the tele­vi­sion series.51

Tsu­ru­maki: Yes. Strictly speak­ing, the part cor­re­spond­ing to episode 19 incor­po­rates parts [of the series] from up to episode 23. Rei self­-de­structs in the TV series; [here] Shinji res­cues her, and she is not made to self­-de­struct. Keep­ing things the same besides that was the safest way to do it. How­ev­er, Mari had appeared [in the sto­ry], so she some­how had to act; we had to leave a path open for Mari. That was the most stress­ful [part].

Part 4


[In­cor­po­rat­ing] change itself into the struc­ture of the film

— Set­ting Mari aside, hav­ing Asuka pilot Unit-03 was a major change in “Break”. How was this deci­sion made?

Tsu­ru­maki: Just as with Mari, we wanted Asuka to be sig­nifi­cantly involved in the sto­ry. Since we decided to make the new films we’ve some­how felt mis­giv­ings [about Asuka?]. When we [de­vel­oped] the plot there were many scenes and dia­logues involv­ing Asuka, but we weren’t able to assign her a role in the sto­ry. She did­n’t deci­sively impact Shin­ji, Rei, or the oth­ers. To say it plain­ly, we had the feel­ing that she was becom­ing some­thing like a char­ac­ter who only “made noise” at the side. Asuka is a cru­cial char­ac­ter, so we wanted to involve her more in the sto­ry. She’s a pop­u­lar char­ac­ter, so we hated the idea of her appear­ing as “side enter­tain­ment”.

— So how did she become linked with the Unit-03 sequence?

Tsu­ru­maki: Sadamo­to-san’s advice was impor­tant. There was an ini­tial con­ver­sa­tion where he made the point that, “among Kaworu, Tou­ji, and Asuka, you will not be able to suffi­ciently develop more than two of them, prob­a­bly only one”. Because he had care­fully con­sid­ered his expe­ri­ences putting together the man­ga, I placed great weight on his opin­ion.

— In actu­al­i­ty, the story of Touji and Unit-03 remained in the manga ver­sion, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: Yeah. With a man­ga, in a way, you have a great deal of free­dom. For exam­ple, you could use an entire vol­ume of the manga just for Episode 18 of the TV series, and it should be okay. I myself really liked Tou­ji’s episode; I think it was good in that it broad­ened the scope of the series, and so I under­stand Sadamo­to-san closely fol­low­ing the TV ver­sion in his man­ga. How­ev­er, because a film has to develop a “flow” within a lim­ited amount of time, we would­n’t have the space to closely develop three char­ac­ters in “Break”. I could pre­dict that, when we posi­tioned the TV series’ Unit-03 inci­dent as a cru­cial, cli­mac­tic episode, we would have no choice but to aban­don por­tray­ing Asuka [as a major char­ac­ter]. If that hap­pened Asuka’s role in the plot would com­pletely van­ish. More­over, after the Unit-03 inci­dent, even the scenes where she does appear were bound to be reduced. If this is the case, could we sim­ply replace Touji with Asuka? I tried propos­ing this to Anno-san, includ­ing Sadamo­to-san’s views on the mat­ter.

— It seems that, for the film, a great deal depended on this deter­mi­na­tion. So this plan was accepted with no objec­tions?

Tsu­ru­maki: No, there was con­sid­er­able resis­tance from the staff. I think it’s only nat­ur­al. I myself was afraid of mak­ing such a change. Anno-san, as well, prob­a­bly was­n’t eager to do it at first. Nev­er­the­less, the deci­sion about the Unit-03 inci­dent had to be made at an early stage.

— I think the result of the plan to have Asuka pilot Unit-03 was a point where the new film impacts [the audi­ence] with an impres­sion of its char­ac­ter. I won­dered if it was like a sym­bolic procla­ma­tion: “We are mak­ing some­thing differ­ent”.

Tsu­ru­maki: When we began the new films, I won­dered if we could actu­ally cre­ate a film about the con­di­tion of “remak­ing” a work. Some­thing like [what hap­pened with] . Film­ing in a jun­gle far from their home coun­try, [hear­ing] a lan­guage they did­n’t under­stand, [fol­low­ing] a sched­ule with no end in sight, lack­ing suffi­cient fund­ing; the very cir­cum­stances of a film crew mak­ing a movie about Viet­nam strongly “syn­chro­nized” not only with the men­tal state of the sol­diers who fought in Viet­nam but with an Amer­ica unable to with­draw from a war that had become a “quag­mire”.

So, I won­dered if it was pos­si­ble to develop some­thing like “a film about the act itself of remak­ing the same thing over again”. It seems like … changes in the story would be stress­ful for the cre­ators, to begin with, but also stress­ful for the char­ac­ters in the film and for the view­ing audi­ence. I won­dered if it was pos­si­ble to make a film that took all of this into account.

— This “metafic­tional” approach is really inter­est­ing. It’s like a kind of “stress con­test” between the cre­ators and the view­ers.

Tsu­ru­maki: So, when I asked Anno-san “How would this be?” he imme­di­ately replied “No. That’s use­less”. (laughs) It’s cer­tainly a differ­ent direc­tion than the “easy-to-un­der­stand enter­tain­ment” which we ini­tially aimed at with the new films. So, at that time I just gave it up. Nev­er­the­less, dur­ing the course of its cre­ation “Break” cer­tainly became like this…

— I felt like the var­i­ous changes within the story came off as things that you had aimed at from the begin­ning. No doubt about it.

Tsu­ru­maki: Despite peo­ple say­ing “Kaeru Kaeru”, [“change, change”] in real­ity things stay the same as before and can­not be changed. It’s the same with the view­ers, who, on the one hand, come to the the­ater antic­i­pat­ing changes, and, on the other hand, are pre­pared in advance to com­plain if the direc­tion of the changes does­n’t suit them. This sender/receiver rela­tion­ship exists nat­u­ral­ly. Obvi­ous­ly, it’s some­thing that’s both “inside” and “out­side” the film, between the “story” and the “real world”. [When we speak of] “film” [the word] also includes this [si­t­u­a­tion].52 As I wanted to aim for this at the start, I’m sat­is­fied with the cur­rent state of the film, which I think is approach­ing that once- rejected and aban­doned “metafic­tion­al­ity”.

— It’s a sit­u­a­tion where there is a struc­tural entan­gle­ment between some­thing like real­ity and the cre­ative sit­u­a­tion or between some­thing like the “film” and the “fan”.

Tsu­ru­maki: It’s cer­tainly “Eva-esque”.

— This is an amaz­ingly thought-pro­vok­ing account, in that it sheds light on what it means to trans­form Eva into “Break” / to “Break” Eva.53

Tsu­ru­maki: I don’t know to what extent the audi­ence will be really inter­ested in it! (laughs)

— No, no, it’s extra­or­di­nar­ily inter­est­ing. I think it’s a valu­able account.

Tsu­ru­maki: Cer­tainly this should be an inter­est­ing con­ver­sa­tion for the “heavy” Eva fan. I myself also really like it. “To repeat”, “to remake”, “to want to change”, “to have to change;” these things them­selves become the themes of the sto­ry, and pro­duce a new struc­ture. There is the TV series, and there are the new movies; a reit­er­a­tion. “To do it one more time”: within this devel­op­ment, one says one wants to change but does not. It’s as though one wants to change and yet one does­n’t want to change… this incred­i­ble struc­ture devel­oped, and I really like it.

Part 5

The magic that was hid­den in Episode 1954

— Even though it’s inter­est­ing, the actual work must nat­u­rally have been diffi­cult.

Tsu­ru­maki: There are differ­ent con­sid­er­a­tions if you are part of the cre­ative process! (laughs) If you have con­trol of this “meta” way of cre­at­ing [some­thing], then things aren’t too bad. At first I tried to exer­cise this con­trol, but when I talked to Anno [I learned that] it was “use­less”, so I thought, well, there’s noth­ing I can do. How­ev­er, in this state where I had no con­trol, [the film] became [“metafic­tional”] in the end. That’s what hap­pened.

— So it took care of itself?

Tsu­ru­maki: Yes. It’s exactly a state where it’s been left to take care of itself. (laughs) I think that’s prob­a­bly ter­ri­ble, right?

— I’m sor­ry, but I think “deep” [濃い] fans of Eva will absolutely say “that’s okay!” (laughs) Their fear and mis­trust of a “des­ti­na­tion unknown” melts away, owing to their “pre-estab­lished har­mony” [with the creators/franchise]. More­over, if we watch the com­pleted film, there’s no sign of things that were pro­duced by “giv­ing up con­trol”. It’s beyond the imag­i­na­tion of any­one to sense what you were able to bring about and what formed [ac­ci­den­tal­ly]. More­over, it seems as though every­thing was cal­cu­lated from the begin­ning… I think that, cer­tain­ly, is “Eva-esque”, and an extremely inter­est­ing phe­nom­e­non.

Tsu­ru­maki: That’s true, isn’t it? Some time ago there was a topic of con­ver­sa­tion deal­ing with the story struc­ture of the TV series as being extremely fixed, extremely strong, and at the time I thought this way as well. I thought, “Anno-san, he’s amaz­ing!” Amaz­ing to come up with this struc­ture. It’s a struc­ture where turn­ing over one piece brings the entire series of con­nec­tions to life.55 I thought it was amaz­ing. How­ev­er, when I started to work on “Break”, and we looked at and ana­lyzed the cli­mac­tic scene, cor­re­spond­ing to episode 19 of the series, over and over again, then I came to real­ize that this was not entirely true. Every­body really loves episode 19, and it’s said to be extremely well made, right?

— Yeah. In that [episode] we get a tightly com­pressed reit­er­a­tion of the TV series up to that point; it’s a tech­nique that shows us a con­densed ver­sion of the story of Shin­ji’s growth, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: Nev­er­the­less, if you ana­lyze the incred­i­ble “magic” hap­pen­ing there you will really under­stand. I don’t mean to be impo­lite, but, to put it sim­ply, every­body is being deceived. Even we, the staff, were deceived.56

— What on earth do you mean by that?

Tsu­ru­maki: The most impor­tant point is that Shinji says there that he won’t pilot the Eva again. When Shinji decides to leave Toky­o-3, one moment he is sep­a­rat­ing from Mis­ato at Hakone-Yu­moto sta­tion, and before we know it he is in an under­ground shel­ter in the Geofront. When the Angel attacks he is stand­ing on a hill over­look­ing Toky­o-3—which lies on the other side of a moun­tain from Hakone-Yu­moto57—say­ing to him­self “I won’t pilot”. But in the next scene he is in the under­ground shel­ter. While he is say­ing “I won’t pilot” his body is grad­u­ally com­ing closer and closer to Unit-01. I did­n’t really real­ize this at the time. This also has to do with Masayuk­i’s tran­scen­den­tal edit­ing tech­nique and the fact that “BANK” is fre­quently used.58

— なんだか見覚えのシーンをパッパッと短くつないで 入れ子にしてあるから、よけい印象が強くなって見えるんですようね。59

Tsu­ru­maki: In addi­tion, there is also the lack of infor­ma­tion char­ac­ter­is­tic of TV Ani­me. For exam­ple, there is the sky in the back­ground behind the char­ac­ter, but no infor­ma­tion is given out­side of that; is he on the top of a moun­tain? Is he inside the city? We don’t really know.60 We are grad­u­ally dis­ori­ented by means of an accu­mu­la­tion of inde­ter­mi­na­cies.

— Cer­tain­ly, owing to the “magic” of the tele­vi­sion image, we have the impres­sion that, even though Shinji is going [some­where] with all his might, we don’t know where he is.

Tsu­ru­maki: But if we observe care­ful­ly, we feel con­fused. Even at that [ear­lier] time I real­ized that much. My inter­pre­ta­tion was that, even though Shinji was say­ing he would­n’t pilot, he also under­stood that he had to pilot. As for his say­ing “I won’t pilot”, I believed that if he was­n’t say­ing it he would cer­tainly pilot.61 As a result, although he was say­ing “I won’t pilot, I won’t pilot”, his body was going towards the cen­ter of the bat­tle. Even though he came as far the Geofront, where the bat­tle was rag­ing, he was still say­ing “I won’t pilot, I won’t pilot”. Then Unit-02’s head falls down, and Unit-00 is dam­aged, and so on; and when [Sh­in­ji] goes out­side Kaji is there, and they have a famous con­ver­sa­tion. Final­ly, Shinji gives up and pilots, decid­ing that, “as I thought, I have to pilot… I knew it, but it was just as I expected”. That sort of devel­op­ment was how I inter­preted things.

— That’s also my inter­pre­ta­tion, and, I think, the inter­pre­ta­tion of count­less view­ers…

Tsu­ru­maki: [There must be a] “how­ever”, right? When I was doing the sto­ry­boards for “Break”, and went to con­firm with Anno-san that por­tray­ing Shinji like this was good, I was emphat­i­cally told, “What are you talk­ing about, Makki? This is com­pletely wrong!” What a shock I received! (laughs) Anno-san con­tin­ues, “Shinji really does­n’t want to pilot, and that’s what he says”. From my point of view Shin­ji’s dec­la­ra­tion “I won’t pilot” was half a hate cam­paign against his father, a child and “da-da” type sit­u­a­tion. It was the same as a child who had quar­reled with his father say­ing “If that’s the case, I won’t study!” Emo­tion­al­ly, Shinji does­n’t want to pilot, but he under­stands that he has to. To that extent I had thought he was a “grown-up” char­ac­ter.

How­ev­er, when I seri­ously thought over what Anno-san had said, I under­stood that Anno-san’s Shinji is not like that. I under­stood that he was a char­ac­ter who, if he feels he does­n’t want to pilot, absolutely will not pilot. Shinji is the exact oppo­site of what the con­ven­tional impres­sion of him is. He is not cow­ardly and inde­ci­sive; he is obsti­nate and does­n’t pay any mind to other peo­ple.

— In short, a char­ac­ter who will not pilot, no mat­ter what?

Tsu­ru­maki: Exactly right. Accord­ing to Anno-san, “He pilots because he wants to pilot, and as long as he does­n’t want to pilot he won’t pilot”. But I remained unsat­is­fied. “That would be accept­able if this were a triv­ial argu­ment over some­thing like study­ing.62 How­ev­er, if he does­n’t pilot Eva, human­ity will be destroyed, Mis­ato will be in great diffi­cul­ties, Rei Ayanami will have to under­take a sui­cide attack, and so on; even if he knows this, will he still not pilot Eva?” When I again tried to ask Anno-san this, he replied, “Because Shinji is extremely angry there, his heart is closed and he does­n’t notice those things”.

When I was told that, I under­stood the irra­tional speech and con­duct that could be some­times seen in Anno-san! (laughs) In short, he’s some­one who, once he starts to say he does­n’t like some­thing, absolutely will not budge. From my per­spec­tive, at such times Anno-san is obsti­nate to what feels like an abnor­mal extent.

I am the oppo­site. I truth­fully dis­like even doing this inter­view for the pro­gram.63 How­ev­er, since Anno-san would­n’t do it, it seemed like some­one had to… I don’t care one way or the other about the inter­view.64 (laughs) But Anno-san, he’s some­one who some­times dis­plays an irra­tional obsti­nacy rem­i­nis­cent of Shinji in Episode 19.

All of this is just a guess,65 but Anno-san has never in his life had the expe­ri­ence “I did­n’t want to do it, but I did it”. If he did some­thing, it was only because he had wanted to do it. For myself, there were many things I did because I wanted to do them, but just about as many things I did­n’t want to do, but did because I had no choice.

— It’s gen­er­ally the same for every work­ing adult, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: How­ev­er, was Shinji really por­trayed in episode 19 the way Anno-san said he was? No mat­ter what, the ques­tion was there, but when I ask Masayuk­i-san, who was respon­si­ble for direct­ing that episode, for con­fir­ma­tion, for one rea­son or another he does­n’t give me a clear answer. As a result I won­der if he is chang­ing the depic­tion of Shin­ji’s char­ac­ter behind Anno-san’s back.66

— Isn’t that an even more shock­ing dis­cov­ery?

Tsu­ru­maki: A rea­son that can explain why Shinji returned to the Geofront… In short, in his heart Shinji believes that he has to pilot Eva so he goes of his own voli­tion. Even if the truth is that Anno-san’s script arrives at a differ­ent expla­na­tion, [the oth­er] is eas­ily insert­ed. If such things as Shin­ji’s mono­logue along­side the voices of the evac­uees, the stream of announce­ments on the pub­lic address sys­tem, and so on, are pre­sent, Anno-san will believe that “this is cer­tainly fol­low­ing my script”. How­ev­er, Masayuk­i-san treats that skill­ful­ly, and then inserts an ambigu­ous depic­tion which could be taken a differ­ent way. As far as this is the case, Masayuk­i-san’s direc­toral plan should have been fun­da­men­tally the same as my inter­pre­ta­tion.

— I’ve got it. It’s that ambi­gu­ity that is the main rea­son view­ers have such sym­pa­thetic feel­ings for episode 19.

Tsu­ru­maki: Right. To the extent they hold those feel­ings, Shinji is not obsti­nate. The impres­sions [pro­duced by the episode] can be inter­preted this way.67 I think Masayuk­i-san’s words were some­thing like, “It’s this because that stu­pid Anno said so, but…”68 (laughs) I won­dered if [Masayuk­i-san], like myself, wanted to avoid a defi­nite con­flict or rejec­tion, and so, with a skill­ful decep­tion, had things both ways. ???69 How­ev­er, Masayuk­i-san’s unique edit­ing tech­nique and film-like mon­tages [映画的なモンタージュ] were accom­pa­nied by the lack of infor­ma­tion pecu­liar to tele­vi­sion; [the result is] some­thing estab­lished through a per­fect bal­ance.

— This is a very inter­est­ing expla­na­tion. As a result, what the view­ers finally see is left to the imag­i­na­tion of the view­ers. So the view­ers will reach the con­clu­sion “I was able to see what I wanted to see”.

Tsu­ru­maki: Right. Pre­cisely because the infor­ma­tion pro­vided in TV anime is slight, it’s left up to the view­ers. The tech­nique depends upon this pre­con­di­tion. How­ev­er, if we attempted to do the same thing with film-qual­ity images, then that would absolutely lead to prob­lems. I believed we could­n’t achieve the same thing [in the film] using the tech­nique from episode 19.

Part 6


What is it that strength­ens the struc­ture of Eva?70

— Even if episode 19 is a mas­ter­piece, in real­ity its struc­ture lacks strength. Notwith­stand­ing that, why does Eva as a whole appear this way [i.e., to be struc­turally sound]?

Tsu­ru­maki: From this point on, these are com­pletely my own sup­po­si­tions, so Anno-san would prob­a­bly reject this, but the secret is, I think, likely to be Anno-san him­self. Anno-san is not some­one who cre­ates accord­ing to an induc­tive method71, but accord­ing to a deduc­tive method72. The induc­tive method­ol­ogy would involve decid­ing one one’s des­ti­na­tion and work­ing out what you will do to get there, but that’s not the case [with Anno], who has­n’t really decided what the end point will be. Even if he has decided [on some­thing, he’s done it] very vague­ly, and as he tries to go on he gets bored with it.73 I have reached the point where I firmly believe this.

To put it another way, he just ends up choos­ing the things he likes. For exam­ple, sup­pose that there is a fork in the road. [He’s?] faced with [the choice] “save Rei/not save Rei” and [he] chooses “save Rei”. [He’s] faced with [the choice] “pilot Eva/not pilot Eva” and [he] chooses “pilot Eva”. [He] goes on choos­ing the path he likes from a con­tin­u­ous series of two alter­na­tives. The struc­ture of Eva’s story is assem­bled in this man­ner. It’s no longer a struc­ture.

— It’s just like a sin­gle road, right? If this is the case, the story of “Eva” as a whole is Anno Hideak­i’s “indi­vid­u­al­ity”74 itself. Isn’t it like what he told me, some­where in the past: "_mata mod­otte shi­mau"?75

TODO: who said this fol­low­ing line, the inter­viewer or Tsu­ru­maki?

Because I had a differ­ent impres­sion at the time of the first CRC inter­view with Chief Direc­tor Hideaki Anno, I am dig­ging deeper using what I heard. ???76 [Anno said that] one of his objec­tives for the “New Movie Edi­tion” was to recon­struct Evan­ge­lion as an “enter­tain­ment” lib­er­ated from his own “author­ity” [or “autho­r­ial nature”: 作家性], so that even other direc­tors would be able to cre­ate [fu­ture “Eva” work­s]. In real­i­ty, “Pre­lude”, despite impart­ing a sense of this poten­tial­ity … This was the mean­ing of the phrase.

Tsu­ru­maki: How­ev­er, in the end, I can’t under­stand it any fur­ther. Because the fact is that the struc­ture of the story appears to be solid, and Anno-san is some­one who won’t change his mind once he’s decid­ed.

— Is the foun­da­tion of this solid­ity then Hideaki Anno’s “indi­vid­u­al­ity”?

Tsu­ru­maki: Let’s say we had an Arti­fi­cial Intel­li­gence which, where there are two choic­es, is unfail­ingly biased towards select­ing what is, even if only by a small mar­gin, “the bright side”. So if we have, say, the numer­i­cal val­ues “49” and “51”, it will cer­tainly choose “51”. The AI’s route is con­sis­tent. There is no neces­sity or rea­son to go off course. In this sort of man­ner, I believe all of Eva’s options were selected by Anno-san accord­ing to his lik­ing. The real­ity is, now, “Break” has also become like this. (laughs) Even though I think Anno-san wants to change, I think there are cer­tainly also rea­sons why he was sim­ply unable to change. Even at the time of the TV series, every­thing was already [just] Anno-san select­ing the direc­tion he liked. “If we do this, it will be kakkouii”. “I like this direc­tion.” “It will be fun if this hap­pens.” Because he always chose such a way, chang­ing that means hav­ing to do things he dis­likes. So, he was­n’t able to change… That’s how I under­stood things.

— I see. Inter­est­ing. My ease in under­stand­ing this con­ver­sa­tion is due to my mem­ory of a sym­bolic remark made by a cer­tain per­son at the time when “Pre­lude” was first being adver­tised. “Of course, if Anno-san does it, any­thing will become Eva. In short, if Mr. Eva’s hands touch it, then it’s Eva!”77 The con­ver­sa­tion we’re hav­ing now really goes hand in hand with that.78

Tsu­ru­maki: If we assume it’s pos­si­ble that there’s some sort of log­i­cal basis [for Eva], then of course it’s “Hideaki Anno”. Accord­ing­ly, parts [of Eva] emerge that even those of us who are very close [to Eva/Anno] don’t under­stand well. To be hon­est, [Eva is] like a “black box”, and so there are many occa­sions when I am con­vinced that a par­tic­u­lar way is “Eva-esque” and it turns out not to be.

— Only, more than ten years have passed since the 1995 ver­sion [of Eva], and Anno-san him­self has changed, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: Nat­u­ral­ly, I also expected that, for the “New The­atri­cal Edi­tion”, because Hideaki Anno has changed with age, Eva will change as well, but… This is also [just] my own spec­u­la­tion, but in truth he has prob­a­bly not changed much at all. I feel like noth­ing has changed since he was a mid­dle school stu­dent watch­ing Ultra­man and [Space Bat­tle­ship] Yam­a­to. There is a “switch” in Anno-san’s mind that is com­pletely unchanged, a switch con­stantly click­ing back and forth between two alter­na­tives. Of course, in the man him­self, there is a desire to change. For this rea­son Mari was intro­duced, and he wanted [things] to be changed, but …

— That [de­sire] includes the “spirit of ser­vice” which wants to live up to the expec­ta­tions of the audi­ence, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: That’s also prob­a­bly there. Only, with regards to the new films, the cir­cum­stances are unique, and unlike what has hap­pened up until now. Anno-san is the orig­i­nal cre­ator, the scriptwriter, the chief direc­tor, the pro­ducer (sub­stan­tial­ly), the spon­sor79, the head of the pro­duc­tion stu­dio, and he also over­looks dis­tri­b­u­tion and adver­tis­ing; it’s an awe-in­spir­ing sit­u­a­tion. Every final deci­sion is being made by him alone. In his capac­ity as pro­ducer and chief direc­tor, Anno-san believed that he had to intro­duce Mari and change the sto­ry; how­ev­er, as the orig­i­nal cre­ator, scriptwriter, and author, he did not want to make the changes. I think that, more than a resis­tance to change, he had the feel­ing that if he changed Eva it would some­how not be “his” Eva, and so he was divid­ed. Even though he knew that the story would inevitably have to change if he intro­duced a new char­ac­ter, pre­serv­ing the essence [of Evan­ge­lion] while hav­ing that new char­ac­ter play an active role was a great prob­lem.

— This resis­tance, or should I say con­flict, paid off, and, in the end, some­how this bro­ken “Break” took form, right? ???80

Tsu­ru­maki: Ulti­mate­ly, I think that [the film] forth­rightly expressed what Anno-san had stat­ed, that “Shinji truly does­n’t want to pilot”. As a result, the story clearly differed from my inter­pre­ta­tion of episode 19 as “Shinji truly know­ing that he has to pilot, and so pilot­ing in the end”.81

Part 7


Entrust­ing the third Rei’s dis­tant feel­ings82 / The feel­ings [I] attempted to entrust to [ex­press through?] the third Rei83 84

— At what point did you decide that the cli­max would blend the story of episode 19 with ele­ments of episode 23?

Tsu­ru­maki: I had sug­gested that this would be a good idea, and it was [in place] from a very early stage. The orig­i­nal plan had been for “Break” to com­prise episodes eight to nine­teen. I thought this would be diffi­cult. If the num­ber of episodes cov­ered would be large in any case, I thought we should instead increase the range to include episode 23, and free up the third part onwards. I thought it would be unpleas­ant to leave “home­work”.

— So you could admit new ele­ments in the future?

Tsu­ru­maki: Right. There was a feel­ing that we wanted the diffi­cul­ties to be, as far as pos­si­ble, con­fined to “Break”, because we wanted a sit­u­a­tion where we would be able to try var­i­ous things in the third part. So, after Rei’s death in episode 23, Kaworu comes to Shin­ji; we attempted a struc­ture sim­i­lar to the TV series. But, in the end, Rei did­n’t die…

— Instead, it seemed that Shinji and Rei “got together”.

Tsu­ru­maki: There is prob­a­bly some other inten­tion there, so I think you should check with Anno-san [about that]. How­ev­er, because there was a feel­ing that Rei III had been poorly devel­oped in the TV series, after Rei II died in “Break”, we wanted to develop in detail the drama of Rei III in “Q” [3.0].

— So it’s some­thing you were not able to fully real­ize in the TV series. “Because I am the third” is an amaz­ingly impact­ful, famous line of dia­logue, but, in truth, I felt that [Rei III] did­n’t really mean much after that…

Tsu­ru­maki: I thought going deeply into that would be inter­est­ing, even in a “Sci­ence Fic­tion”-like way. As Rei real­izes the fact, and the sig­nifi­cance of the fact, that there has been more than one Rei before her, how, as a clone, will she achieve her inde­pen­dence as an indi­vid­u­al? I wanted to develop a story like that. How­ev­er, it was decided that Rei would­n’t die, and, in the cli­max of “Break”, we strongly and actively push the idea of “Rei and Shinji being brought together”, a devel­op­ment taken over from “Pre­lude”.

— That was an extra­or­di­nar­ily sur­pris­ing devel­op­ment.

Tsu­ru­maki: Because it’s even linked with the moti­va­tion for hav­ing Asuka pilot Unit-03, it ended up being a stronger way of devel­op­ing things than I thought. ??85

— There’s one thing that mys­ti­fied me. Despite the fact that the orig­i­nal sce­nario for the cli­max was differ­ent, in “Pre­lude” Gen­dou men­tions some­thing like a “love love strat­egy” intended to bring Rei and Shinji closer togeth­er. Why does that appear to be con­sis­tent [with “Break”]?

Tsu­ru­maki: Anno-san prob­a­bly has­n’t thought about that very deeply.

— Eh? That was­n’t fore­shad­ow­ing?

Tsu­ru­maki: We on the staff had a con­ver­sa­tion about that dia­logue from “Pre­lude”, won­der­ing if it was okay to have [Gen­dou] say that. Not to men­tion that I thought Rei II was going to die in “Break”.

— Then why, despite that, was there a con­sis­ten­cy?

Tsu­ru­maki: This is evi­dence that the story was devel­oped, not with an “induc­tive” tech­nique, but with a “deduc­tive” one. “He already said it there, so we have no choice”. It’s some­thing like a method­ol­ogy where [the sto­ry] is adjust­ed, even forcibly, to be con­sis­tent with what has already been done.

— This is quite a shock (laugh­ing)! Sure­ly, imme­di­ately fol­low­ing “Pre­lude”, there are peo­ple who grin and say of the “love love strat­egy”, “This is a big change!” Surely it leaves a strong impres­sion on every­one. As a result, they will surely think dur­ing “Break”, “Ah, as I thought, those two were brought togeth­er!”

Tsu­ru­maki: The impres­sion that Anno-san mainly wanted to con­vey was that Gen­dou and Fuyut­suki were devis­ing a secret plot. Because Shinji hap­pens to go to Rei’s room just after that, that was what they dis­cussed. When “secret plot” and “Shinji and Rei” were com­bined, it prob­a­bly appeared some­thing like “a strat­egy to bring together Shinji and Rei”.

— Rather than being dis­ap­point­ed, I’m impressed. All the more, I have a pleas­ant feel­ing that things have become “Eva-esque”. The fact that this con­sis­tency is inher­ent [makes it] extremely valu­able; I am delighted [to think] that this may be the much-dis­cussed “live feel­ing”.86 In any case, there will surely be many view­ers who have the impres­sion that, this time, Gen­do’s Human Instru­men­tal­ity Project [some­how depends on] this “love love strat­egy”. Fuyut­suki also says some­thing like, “As we thought, owing to those two Unit-01 has awak­ened”.

Tsu­ru­maki: And Gen­dou replies some­thing like “A lit­tle while longer, and our project is com­plete”. I had doubts sto­ry­board­ing that con­ver­sa­tion, and sent Anno-san a series of ques­tions about it. “So Gen­dou knew this would hap­pen to Unit-01? Or was Gen­dou also sur­prised and trou­bled? Or was Gen­dou sur­prised, but pleased with the out­come?” I did­n’t under­stand the spe­cific mean­ing of the state­ment, so I strug­gled to inter­pret it. Anno-san replied that, “For now, we’ll say he aimed at this and things went the way he expected”. I won­dered if that was enough. For myself, I am still skep­ti­cal that even Gen­dou isn’t really pan­ick­ing inside, but…

— So [ev­ery­thing] will prob­a­bly be over­turned again next time?

Tsu­ru­maki: That is per­fectly likely (laugh­s).

— One more thing: Kaworu’s exis­tence in light of the fact that we are given this strong impres­sion that, “this time, the human instru­men­tal­ity project was this ‘love love strat­egy’ with Shinji and Rei”. There’s no doubt that female fans were extremely pleased by Kaworu’s line after the end­ing: “Ikari Shin­ji-kun, this time, I will make you happy”.

Tsu­ru­maki: Kaworu’s line stayed the same from the very first sto­ry­board. It was some­thing he said while wear­ing his usual relaxed smile. Of course, at the last min­ute, just, I think, before we started post-syn­chro­niza­tion, we began talk­ing about whether or not it would be bet­ter if Kaworu looked scary dur­ing that scene.

— As a result, it looks like he’s come to take his bride by force!87

Tsu­ru­maki: Right, right (laugh­ing). [We thought it would be] more inter­est­ing if Kaworu looked like [he was think­ing]: “You’ve been with a woman while I’ve been away? How dare you…!” It’s not Kaworu’s usual relaxed expres­sion; he’s some­how become irri­tat­ed, right?

Part 8

Part 9

Part 10

Part 11


The sig­nifi­cantly changed Angels of “Break”

— This time around, the designs of the Angels, such as the “Hei­wa­ji­ma-like” sev­enth Angel, have all rad­i­cally changed. Was this the inten­tion from the out­set?88

Tsu­ru­maki: As far as the sev­enth Angel is con­cerned, the truth is that the orig­i­nal rea­son [for the change in design] was that the genga for that episode had been entirely lost, and we could­n’t use the ‘BANK.’ If the genga had remained, even if the key ani­ma­tion direc­tor decided to redo them, episode eight would prob­a­bly have remained [in the film] in its entire­ty. [We thought,] if we can’t make use of the gen­ga, let’s com­pletely change Asuka’s intro­duc­tory scene. The design was put together by Shigeto Koya­ma-san and Daizen Komat­su­da-kun […].89

— Who did the design for the eighth Angel?90

Tsu­ru­maki: The design of the falling Angel was done entirely by Mahiro Maeda-san; the design of the humanoid that emerges from its cen­ter was done by [Takeshi] Hon­da-kun. It was a part I did­n’t super­vise, so I don’t know the details, but I think the CG was rel­a­tively diffi­cult. With the sixth Angel in “Pre­lude”, even if things weren’t per­fect, we could some­how see what we had done cor­rect­ly, and fig­ure out how to pro­ceed in a way that would bring us closer to our goal. How­ev­er, with the falling Angel, it seems that things were more or less done by trial and error, with no goal in sight.91

— The third Angel’s design [was done by] author -san, right?92

Tsu­ru­maki: That’s right. Anno had done a rough sketch, but the idea that Kito­h-san sub­mit­ted seemed nearly defin­i­tive on the first attempt.93

— […] why was the design of the tenth Angel altered?94

Tsu­ru­maki: I don’t know the rea­son. I think, at the ear­li­est stage of plot devel­op­ment, that even the fact that it would change form had not been deter­mined. Orig­i­nal­ly, the design of the TV series’ four­teenth Angel con­tained excel­lent ideas. The fold­ing fan-pa­per style arms were espe­cially inter­est­ing. That con­cep­tion appeared from the begin­ning, to the extent that, in the pro­posal for the TV series, there was an image board where Unit-01 bat­tled an Angel that was just a fly­ing [pair of] origami-like arms.95 I don’t really know the rea­son that was changed.96

— In episode 19 of the TV series, Eva con­sumes the Angel, but, in “Break”, the Angel con­sumes Eva. I think this rever­sal is impres­sive. The audi­ence will be first of all sur­prised by the change in form, and then dou­bly sur­prised by the act of con­sump­tion. I think this Angel might sym­bol­ize “Break”.97

Tsu­ru­maki: It’s differ­ent than the direct con­sump­tion in the bat­tle with Unit-03. We used an idea where the impres­sion would be of some­thing resem­bling the act of a preda­tory ani­mal. If it had been a TV series, a week would have passed in between, so it prob­a­bly would­n’t mat­ter, but in a film, I thought that hav­ing a scene con­vey­ing a sim­i­lar impres­sion just thirty min­utes prior would have been awk­ward. [More than trans­form­ing, it felt like it was grad­u­ally devel­op­ing. It seemed like the Angel was grad­u­ally com­ing closer to a human being. ??] Even though we had started the sto­ry­boards, the design was chang­ing day by day with­out being solid­i­fied. Even in the sto­ry­boards, at differ­ent peri­ods a vari­ety of types and differ­ent designs were used. As for the Angel’s final form, I wanted to do some­thing resem­bling a female vil­lain from the Sen­tai Series. I still feel that way.98

— Eh, you mean [with some sort of] head­gear?99

Tsu­ru­maki: Yeah. Sim­i­lar to Rid­er­man [from Kamen Rid­er]. From the mouth to the nose you would have the face of a wom­an, and the head from the eyes upwards would be cov­ered by the Angel. The body would be nude and enor­mous. When I sub­mit­ted this pro­pos­al, it was imme­di­ately rejected (laugh­s). In the Sen­tai Series, there are the scenes where [the villain/monster] grows enor­mous on the other side of the moun­tains [?] and rages vio­lent­ly, right? Using “muri­yara na gou­sei100 [you have the villain/monster] kick­ing around sty­ro­foam boul­ders, [and so on]. [It was] this sort of image, but when I showed the draw­ing to Anno-san, he nat­u­rally thought it was no good. If I was to say which I prefer, I’m some­one who enjoys the Sen­tai Series even more than Kamen Rid­er, but prob­a­bly Anno only enjoys the Sen­tai Series as a joke, and does­n’t seri­ously like them. How­ev­er, I think we ended up with an inter­est­ing design.101

— The bat­tle with the Angel used the same “katto wari102 as in episode 19 of the TV series. For exam­ple, the most impres­sive cut where Unit-01 rushes into the com­mand cen­ter [is the same].103

Tsu­ru­maki: That part was the same as it was in the [orig­i­nal] sto­ry­boards; beyond the change in design of the Angel, we treated things in such a way so as to only mod­ify those parts we had to change. At first we thought that the “katto wari” should be com­pletely changed, but it would­n’t have gone well if we had changed it. For me, chang­ing episode 19 was extremely stress­ful in and of itself; I felt like the more we changed it, the more the qual­ity [of the sequence] would suffer.104

Part 12

Part 13


Cast­ing That Stressed The Ele­ment Of Sur­prise

— I’m going to bring the sub­ject [of the con­ver­sa­tion] back, once more, to Mari. I’d like to ask you about the selec­tion of Maaya Sakamo­to-san [for the role]. Around when was the cast­ing [for Mar­i’s role] dis­cussed?

Tsu­ru­maki: The deci­sion was made almost at the last minute. As far as Mari was con­cerned, Anno-san was, on the whole, extremely cir­cum­spect. Maybe it was less cir­cum­spec­tion, than the fact that, from a cer­tain stage, [he thought] it would be bet­ter if he did­n’t decide [about Mar­i]. Per­haps he thought, “If I make the deci­sions, of course she won’t end up being the char­ac­ter who destroys Eva” … I don’t really know.

Even con­cern­ing the [voice] actor’s selec­tion—­first of all, Mar­i’s char­ac­ter had remained unset­tled the whole way up to that point. Just prior to voice record­ing, at a period when, if we did­n’t decide [on an actor] we would­n’t be able to make an offer­—even though we had reached such a stage, we received no indi­ca­tion from Anno-san as to his desires or the direc­tion [in which we should pro­ceed]. Hav­ing no other choice, at the end of last year Sadamo­to-san and I dis­cussed things at the level of a “stand­ing con­ver­sa­tion”, rais­ing the names of as many actors as the two of us could come up with, one after the oth­er, respond­ing [to each] with things like, “That’s a pos­si­bil­ity”, or “That won’t work”, and going on and on like this for­ev­er. It was then that Sakamo­to-san’s name first appeared.

— Given Aim For The Top 2!, anime fans would be likely to con­jec­ture that you and Sadamo­to-san would decide upon Maaya Sakamo­to-san.

Tsu­ru­maki: I’m sorry [to say that] we did­n’t think along those lines at all. I don’t mean to be rude; Sakamo­to-san’s name came up much later in the con­ver­sa­tions between Sadamo­to-san and I… Even though the [na­ture of Mar­i’s] char­ac­ter had not been indi­cated [to the staff] by Anno-san, the work of pro­duc­ing [the film’s] sto­ry­boards had con­tin­ued. I had no choice but to por­tray Mari [in the sto­ry­boards] accord­ing to my own defi­n­i­tion [of her char­ac­ter]; [I saw her as] an “irre­spon­si­ble”105 and “cun­ning”106 char­ac­ter. [To say] “cow­ardice”107 would be wrong; it was a “cun­ning­ness”108 at the oppo­site remove from “dili­gence”109, “obsti­nacy”110, and so on—or could I say it was a feel­ing of “the right mix of sea­son­ings?”111 … I thought that, oth­er­wise, she would over­lap [with] the exist­ing Eva char­ac­ters and be lost among them.

Anno-san had pre­vi­ously said, “All the char­ac­ters that appear in Eva are me”; he said that not just Shin­ji, but Kaji and Mis­ato as well, and even char­ac­ters like Kaworu and Rei, are aspects of him­self. In this sense, every char­ac­ter is ulti­mately the same. On the sur­face, differ­ent “sea­son­ings” have been used, but inside [the char­ac­ters] really are very sim­i­lar. If Mari were to end up the same as them, she would not be able to destroy that world. As a result, for me, Mari was a girl who made use of that “friv­o­lous­ness”112 that was the oppo­site of dili­gence for her own ben­e­fit.

— [She] has lines [in the film] that give that impres­sion. “In [my] own inter­est”…

Tsu­ru­maki: How­ev­er, that would be the exact oppo­site of Sakamo­to-san’s nat­ural ten­den­cies [as a voice actor]. Sakamo­to-san her­self is the same way. [You get] the impres­sion that the char­ac­ters Sakamo­to-san has played up until now are honor stu­dents and “dili­gent” [in­di­vid­u­al­s]. Because of that [I] did­n’t think of Sakamo­to-san’s name.

— But, instead, [you thought] the oppo­site [type] was suited for the role?

Tsu­ru­maki: Yeah. When Sadamo­to-san brought up Sakamo­to-san’s name, I thought, “that might be inter­est­ing”. Dur­ing the first cast­ing in 1995, we appointed (Megu­mi) Hayashibara-san [to play] a silent and melan­choly girl, and offered (Kotono) Mit­su­ishi-san a female char­ac­ter who was a twen­ty-nine year old adult; that was almost incon­ceiv­able at the time. There was an ele­ment of sur­prise there, and [that] was impres­sive. The com­bi­na­tion of Mari and Sakamo­to-san sud­denly reminded us of that time; it resem­bled [those deci­sion­s].

Nev­er­the­less, [we] were extremely uneasy [about it]. Anno-san had no con­cerns about the abil­ity of Sakamo­to-san her­self, and he finds it inter­est­ing when the voice does­n’t match the style of char­ac­ter,113 so, when we sug­gested [to Anno,] “how would Maaya Sakamo­to-san be?”, [he respond­ed] some­thing like, “Good! Good!”, and it was set­tled.

— [He] responded imme­di­ate­ly?

Tsu­ru­maki: Yeah. How­ev­er, I don’t really know whether he thought deeply about it [per­son­al­ly], or whether [he just thought that] what­ever Sadamo­to-san and myself decided upon would be good (laugh­s).

Part 14

The Pres­ence of a Voice Which Pen­e­trates the Char­ac­ter114

— You actu­ally wit­nessed the voice record­ing ses­sions. How did they go?

Tsu­ru­maki: I was wor­ried, even as we reached the day appointed for the ses­sions. Until we tried match­ing a voice with the pic­ture, [we] were com­pletely unable to say how the [role of the] pre-ti­tle sequence, some­thing like “a young girl who fights while hum­ming to her­self”, should be per­formed. Usu­al­ly, [we] some­how arrive at a con­jec­ture. If [the actor is] per­form­ing a char­ac­ter that resem­bles some­thing done pre­vi­ous­ly, then [we] have a gen­eral sense of it, only this time [we] could­n’t even form an impres­sion—should [Sakamo­to] per­form with an “adult” voice or a “girl­ish” voice?115 […] Was the “mis­match” we were aim­ing at really going to cause an inter­est­ing “chem­i­cal reac­tion”, or…? How­ev­er, in the very first test, I was already grin­ning hear­ing her voice appended to the “fast cut”. In my heart I was think­ing, “vic­to­ry!”

— I was also present on that occa­sion. The [very] first shot at a test for the pre-ti­tle sequence was good, right? It’s amaz­ing that her deliv­ery on the first cut [pro­duced] a per­fect test.

Tsu­ru­maki: That test was truly amaz­ing, to the extent that there were cuts already being approved by the chief direc­tor at the test. We recorded mul­ti­ple takes after­wards, but we almost entirely set­tled on the direc­tion of the first test.

— What sort of diffi­cul­ties related to Mari were there in the per­for­mance?

Tsu­ru­maki: Con­cern­ing the pre-ti­tle sequence, after the final ver­sion of the sto­ry­boards was sub­mit­ted and we had met to dis­cuss pro­duc­ing the images, Mar­i’s dia­logue was almost com­pletely revised. As a result, not only the dra­matic role, but the per­son­al­ity [of the char­ac­ter] changed. In this way, because she was a char­ac­ter cre­ated in a state of inde­ci­sion, it could seem that she was a differ­ent char­ac­ter in each scene she appeared in. Some­one des­ig­nated a “prob­lem child”, a girl who can pilot Eva with plea­sure and with­out protest; she hums to her­self while fight­ing, and when it comes down to it and she gives her all, cries “Ora ora!”116 and impales the angel, say­ing that even her pain is excit­ing; with great zeal she fin­ishes [the angel] off despite the exchange of blows, and politely thanks Unit-05 for its efforts. I felt dizzy when this char­ac­ter emerged from Anno-san’s revi­sions. I could­n’t help think­ing that, even in this short pre-ti­tle sequence, the char­ac­ter was divided [into mul­ti­ple per­son­al­i­ties]. Like in the sto­ry­boards, she would be wear­ing a hel­met that hid her facial expres­sions, so it would­n’t be clear if she was speak­ing seri­ously or mess­ing around. Even when I asked [An­no] for an expla­na­tion, he gave me noth­ing but vague respons­es. I think it was prob­a­bly quite a diffi­cult role for Sakamo­to-san as well. Owing to this state of affairs, at a sin­gle glance [ev­ery­thing] might appear to be “blurred”, with pieces scat­tered every­where. [We] wanted a voice that would con­vince [us] that all [these ele­ments] were present within a sin­gle young girl.

That being the case, there were already no prob­lems with her act­ing tech­nique. That was prob­a­bly already set­tled before she stepped in front of the micro­phone. This [ques­tion of tech­nique] is inter­est­ing as well. The rela­tion­ship between the actors of Eva and their char­ac­ters, and their rela­tion­ship to Anno-san, is com­pletely differ­ent than a in nor­mal pro­duc­tion. It’s unique, I think, in that it incor­po­rates feel­ings lying adja­cent to real­i­ty. It no longer has any­thing to do with skill or lack of skill. It’s not because the tech­nique is mas­ter­ful or because the qual­ity of the voice is good. It’s not just to pro­vide what is being request­ed; if there’s noth­ing in [the per­for­mance] that trans­forms the very work itself, then…

— […] I think, owing to Maaya Sakamo­to-san’s voice being inserted into the film, another “Break”-like change occurred.117

Tsu­ru­maki: I thought that was really good. [Mari] was differ­ent than the char­ac­ters Sakamo­to-san has por­trayed up until now, and, from the impres­sion [I received] at the test, she had prac­ticed con­sid­er­ably [for the role]. I won­der if this is accept­able for a direc­tor, but, when [Sakamo­to’s] voice came in, it was like I under­stood Mari for the first time.

Commentary From Designers

Third Angel/Mohiro Kitoh


Anno-san first asked me about doing some work for him around the spring of 2004, on a differ­ent project than Eva. He asked me about the design for the third angel of “Break” around the end of 2006, quite some time before the release of “Pre­lude.”

To be hon­est, the third angel is fun­da­men­tally the same as it was in Anno-san’s sketch. My job was not quite that of a design­er. […]

I came up with a form like this, fol­low­ing Anno-san’s out­line in a rou­tine man­ner, so there was no diffi­culty with the design. In addi­tion, I was told from the begin­ning that CG would be used to ani­mate its move­ment, so I did­n’t bother con­triv­ing some­thing [new] that would be easy to draw. Instead, I put the [ex­ist­ing] parts in order so that the CG mod­el­ing would be easy. How­ev­er, I have no knowl­edge of [the process], so I don’t actu­ally know whether that made it eas­ier or not. Another rea­son was that I heard that the angel would only be on screen for five min­utes, so I thought it was­n’t nec­es­sary to waste a lot of time doing the design.

The insec­t-like legs were also in Anno’s sketch. I attached them half-way up the torso so that you could imag­ine what the form of the angel was like before it was cap­tured. The design was com­pleted at the end of 2006, and the rest was up to oth­ers. I was no longer involved. Nor had I indi­cated how it would move. When I saw the fin­ished film I thought, “so this is how it moves”: its feet clat­ter­ing around, and its neck and tail act­ing just like a pair of wings. I was impressed. I felt like it had been done by an ani­ma­tor with a great sen­si­tiv­ity to move­ment.

When it comes to the things I design for my own man­ga, I have all the spec­i­fi­ca­tions within me, and I make as many changes [to them] as I like while sketch­ing the draft. Most of my designs are done off-the-cuff on the draft paper. How­ev­er, when it comes to a job like this, where I am design­ing some­thing for another per­son to use, I can’t fully know every­thing that is required, so there will surely be things I will have to apol­o­gize for. [?]

As mine was a spe­cial case where I did the work with­out com­ing into the work­place, I felt like I could­n’t com­pletely grasp how far I should be involved in the plans for actu­ally ren­der­ing it and obvi­ously related prob­lems like [the ques­tion of] its move­ment. That’s the rea­son why I handed the work over at that stage, once the [an­gel’s] form was set out. I know the best thing about this sort of job is going to the office and play­ing catch-ball there while you fin­ish your work, but the fact that I could by no means accept that sched­ule owing to my job writ­ing manga made things diffi­cult. Although I only did this much, my name was listed in the cred­its. I feel ter­ri­ble about that.


Char­ac­ter sketch, Hideaki Anno: the Third Angel

Anno Sketch

The third angel, which bat­tles Unit-05
Sketch by H. Anno, Oct. 25 2006

Venom comes out of the mouth?


Pseudo-En­try Plug

Inter­nal organs?
S2 engine?

It bal­ances itself “furib­ashi” style.

It has been cap­tured, sealed.
In this regard, every­thing that is
not a nec­es­sary part ->

Other parts in here ->
They have been dis­man­tled and stored.

Char­ac­ter sketch, Hideaki Anno: the Third Angel (2)

Kitoh Draw­ings

Entry Plug exte­rior

Parts of skele­ton

Lower jaw, detached.

Orig­i­nal arm Humerus.

With­out its “skin­suit.”

Orig­i­nal leg
Sec­tion of femur

Body—un­der­sur­face only
It’s like it has an exoskele­ton.

Body with its “skin­suit.”

Char­ac­ter sketch, Mohiro Kitoh: the Third Angel

21 sec­tions (in­clud­ing entry plug unit)

Com­mon spine unit [?]
(ex­clud­ing entry plug)

21 sec­tions

11 sec­tions
[???] from parts of the orig­i­nal spine.

Body with­out its “skin­suit.”

Seventh Angel/Shigeto Koyama


Rough sketches for settei/Shigeto Koyama

Spec­u­la­tions on the struc­ture of the head, mid­sec­tion, etc.

Direc­tions for 3D CG model brush-up/Daizen Komat­suda (pp. 147–148)

I was called in after (Daizen) Komat­su­da-san’s “Hei­wa­jima” con­cept was OKed by Anno-san. Even before­hand, I really loved the mag­nifi­cent designs of the angels, and had thought at some length about what design ele­ments would be nec­es­sary to estab­lish some­thing as an angel. The impe­tus which enabled my answer was a “Vira Sei­jin” ball­point pen I received when I vis­ited the home of scriptwriter Yoji Enoki­do-san. After study­ing Toru Nar­i­ta-san’s designs of mon­sters and space aliens for and , I noticed [he used] a sculp­tural design: a “lin­ear”, “geo­met­ri­cal” shape con­sist­ing of “sur­faces” with depth. [*]

More­over, when I worked on direc­tor Tsu­ru­mak­i-san’s Aim for the Top 2! [Die­buster], I per­son­ally wanted to make an effort to link the designs [of that work] to those of Anno-san’s prior work, Aim for the Top! [Gun­buster], so I thor­oughly stud­ied “Anno design” and “Anno detail” by look­ing at set­tei and indi­vid­ual frames [from that work]. Because of that expe­ri­ence, I was able to grasp that the dis­po­si­tion of tri­an­gles and hexa­gons was a cru­cial ele­ment [of Anno’s design]. [*]

As a result, I con­sid­ered there to be two design require­ments for an angel: the design should be “sculp­tural” and “con­tain tri­an­gles and hexa­gons.” Fur­ther­more, I sug­gested a third require­ment: “its actions exceed human rea­son.” The idea that its float­ing feet would seem to “rend” the air like “dividers”, [?] leave tracks of ice, and walk upon the sur­face of the water was [for the sake of] this third, “behav­ioral” require­ment. I found Komat­su­da-san’s “Hei­wa­jima” con­cept118 per­son­ally inter­est­ing, […]119

Fur­ther­more, Anno-san brought up the image of the Toshiba IHI pavil­ion at Osaka 120 (de­signed by Kisho Kurokawa) —I was think­ing, “The tetra-frame is a poly­gon! At last!” and was pri­vately delighted (laugh­s). So, I sub­mit­ted a rough design show­ing a hexag­o­nal shape com­prised of tetra-frames, and [the idea] was OKed.

For the face, I sub­mit­ted var­i­ous pat­terns along the lines of a design by Yoshito Asar­i-san, the “inor­ganic”, “expres­sion­less,” “ego­less” char­ac­ter of which inspired dread. [*] The new designs of the pro­vi­sional Unit-05 and the third angel dur­ing the pre-ti­tle sequence would, as the open­ing strike, sur­prise the view­ers, so I thought that there should be an angel design which could reas­sure the view­ers a bit, like, “with­out doubt, this is Eva!” I decided upon the col­ors—black and white, with red mixed in—us­ing the same ratio­nale. At the stage where the face was decid­ed, an idea of Anno-san’s—“it should move like a clock, ‘kaku, kaku’”—was incor­po­rat­ed. We con­verted the con­firmed image into a 3D mod­el. What we made adjust­ments to on the mon­i­tor became the final design.


[I found Komat­su­da’s hand­writ­ing quite diffi­cult to read, so I haven’t tried to do the notes (at least, not yet).]

Char­ac­ter sketch, Daizen Komat­su­da: Sev­enth Angel (1)
Char­ac­ter sketch, Daizen Komat­su­da: Sev­enth Angel (2)
Char­ac­ter sketch, Daizen Komat­su­da: Sev­enth Angel (3)

Tenth Angel/Yoshito Asari


The design was requested early on. For “Pre­lude”, con­sid­er­able changes were made to the bat­tle with the sixth angel, which became the core of the work. For “Break,” the bat­tle with the tenth angel was sup­posed to cor­re­spond to that [cli­mac­tic bat­tle with the six­th]. […] I won­der if [An­no] just wanted some­thing con­crete to be used, tem­porar­i­ly, as an impe­tus for cre­at­ing the “gim­micks,” bat­tles, and so on, for the new parts of the work. As a result, in “Break,” major inno­va­tions were incor­po­rated into every angel bat­tle.

Up until now, with the excep­tion of the TV series’ third angel, the angel design requests that I have received have all been explained with ref­er­ence to a “gim­mick” within the work (the fourth angel has beam-like whips for arms, the four­teenth angel has folded fab­ric-like “cut­ters” for arms, and so on). As far as the ini­tial request for the new ver­sion of the strongest angel, I only remem­ber the vague descrip­tion: “Some­thing like [the four­teenth angel in the TV series] appears; in real­ity it is some­thing com­pletely differ­ent.” To begin with, I sub­mit­ted an idea where [“Break’s” tenth angel] appears look­ing like the four­teenth angel of the TV series, with [a pair of] “belt-like” arms wrapped around its body. When it unwraps itself, its form com­pletely changes. After that, it is com­pletely differ­ent than the TV series’ four­teenth angel, with a ter­ri­fy­ing shape … when I drew the angel, that was what I had in mind.

I sub­mit­ted the first draft, and com­pletely for­got about it until the begin­ning of 2007, when a rough sketch121 from the direc­tor sud­denly arrived, with the fol­low­ing writ­ten upon it: “Like some­thing wound upon a reel.” “Like the upper parts of ?” “Some­thing con­sumed by the angel emerges.” To begin with, I thought about some­thing that would incor­po­rate that “gim­mick.” I sub­mit­ted an idea where, con­cern­ing the “con­sump­tion”, it extends a pro­boscis, pen­e­trates the Eva, and draws out its insides.

There were fur­ther changes after that […] In the fourth draft the “gim­mick” of the bat­tle solid­i­fied, [?] and an idea was pre­sented where the angel trans­formed from its “flut­ter­ing” con­di­tion, rolling up into a solid pipe, or else chang­ing into the form of a spear. There was a design change in accor­dance with that.

The change where the absorbed Eva pro­truded from the [an­gel’s] body itself was also a direc­toral request. Along with the dis­ap­pear­ance of the torso in the design, the “flut­ter­ing” was changed to resem­ble the palm of a hand. […] it seemed like an image where the absorbed Eva was manip­u­lated like a pup­pet. [?] At that time the chal­lenge was putting into effect an idea where the form, or, should I say, the tex­ture of the whole, sud­denly changes. From fun­yaan to shakiin [“limp” to “firm”?]; that was the ver­bal instruc­tion given by the direc­tor.

As far as Ayanami’s absorp­tion was con­cerned, the instruc­tions came from the direc­tor as well. I myself thought about a design where the entire body did­n’t emerge, but you would have the torso with­out the arms, or an asym­me­try where an arm emerges in place of a leg, or where the body parts “cross” one anoth­er. How­ev­er, when I tried draw­ing it, it was­n’t as good as I expect­ed.

I tried draw­ing var­i­ous things, and left the final deci­sion to the direc­tor.


Char­ac­ter sketch, Yoshito Asari: Tenth Angel


Sto­ry­board sketch: Giant Rei embrac­ing the awak­ened Eva-01

‘A “sug­ges­tive” scene between awak­ened Eva-01 and the giant Rei.’122

“Should I feel relieved that, after a decade of liv­ing (mostly alone) with my idio­syn­cratic deprav­i­ty, it is revealed that some­one from the orig­i­nal Eva team has con­tem­plated the notion of nuclelin­gus? Or should I be fright­ened that the sce­nario is one involv­ing a Rei torso emerg­ing from Zeruel and com­ing onto an upside-down Eva-01 hard?”123

Unit 05

Char­ac­ter sketch: Eva Unit 05

Unit 05, sketches with legs rather than wheels

3.0 preview

Sto­ry­board for 3.0 pre­view, Kaworu & Rei

At the side it seems to say:

  • Kaworu plus Rei (black) x 4 (3 of them are 6–10 years old)
  • Back­ground is gra­dated
  • Water’s sur­face: cel/cell [seru “水面はセル”]124

Then in the image, at the top “ceil­ing pat­tern”, and at the bot­tom, “water’s sur­face.”125

(Com­pare to the actual 3.0 pre­view with 4 Reis and 4 shad­ows in a room with the Sephi­rotic pat­tern.)

Sto­ry­board, 3.0 pre­view: Asuka with a cat-like expres­sion


For a lit­tle bit, the last cut is of Asu­ka.
She can’t help but have a cat face!
←A feel­ing of a slight smile.126

(Com­pare with final 2.22 ani­ma­tion.)

Asuka’s plugsuit

Char­ac­ter design: Asuka in 2.0 plug­suit vari­ants (1)
Char­ac­ter design: Asuka in 2.0 plug­suit vari­ants (2)
Char­ac­ter design: Asuka in 2.0 plug­suit vari­ants (3)
Char­ac­ter design: Asuka in 2.0 plug­suit vari­ants (4)

Asuka in Unit-03

See Shinji Higuchi’s inter­view describ­ing the orig­i­nal ‘hedge­hog’ sto­ry­boards he drew up; trans­la­tion:

The face of “Asuka with the torn off iden­tity” speaks in Kaworu’s voice.
K: “It’s not like you.”
A: “Not like me?”
K: “Being happy does­n’t fit you.”
A: “My happy self is scary. // So let’s go back to the usual me.”

Sto­ry­board: Asuka’s face being ripped off while being men­tally assaulted by an Angel (1)


Sto­ry­board: Asuka’s face being ripped off while being men­tally assaulted by an Angel (2)

(Positioning/page num­ber of this and last image are unclear.)

Sto­ry­board: Asuka’s face being ripped off while being men­tally assaulted by an Angel (3)


Sto­ry­board: Asuka’s face being ripped off while being men­tally assaulted by an Angel (4)

Asuka & Mari

Sto­ry­board: Asuka & Mari pilot­ing Eva-02 together

See Hideaki Anno’s inter­view, part 2 & part 3:

…At this point, there was a devel­op­ment where, dur­ing the fight with the falling angel, Mari and Asuka are present in the [Unit-02] entry plug togeth­er…By the draft of Feb­ru­ary 15 2008, draft 13a, I had the idea that “Mar­i’s appear­ances fol­low­ing the pre-ti­tle sequence will come soon­er, be more numer­ous, and be more impres­sive. To that end, Mari will take charge of the bat­tle­field dur­ing the fight against the falling angel, rid­ing with Asuka, who hates the sit­u­a­tion, in the entry plug [of Unit-02]”. Then Mari cov­ers [庇う] for Asuka, but a wound she received dur­ing the pre-ti­tle sequence grows worse, so she is hos­pi­tal­ized until she reap­pears again in the last scene. That was the plan, but it did­n’t work out.

Rei self-destruct storyboards

Sto­ry­board: Rei com­mit­ting sui­cide by acti­vat­ing Eva self­-de­struct

[first page, left] Rei: “Good­bye.”

Shin­ji: “Stop! AYANAMI!!!”

Rei: [No idea what the first part says because it’s impos­si­ble to read with the flash on the cam­era, bet­ter image sauce please!] “I’m doing this for my own sake.”

And there’s the bot­tom stuff in moon. OCR not pick­ing up what it says about (I’m assum­ing) gen­eral script notes, but the impor­tant part is: “Scene of the 10th Angel’s cor­ro­sion, Rei’s deci­sion to pull Eva-00’s lever”.127


  1. Lit. “estab­lish­ment”. As far as I under­stand it, “set­tei” refers to all designs, draw­ings, and infor­ma­tion used to estab­lish or flesh out the world of the ani­ma­tion and its char­ac­ters, and to inform and direct the process of ani­ma­tion itself.↩︎

  2. Lit. “pho­tog­ra­phy”—process of con­vert­ing cels to film. I believe CG and so on is added at this time. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  3. Lit. “orig­i­nal images” or “pri­mary images”—key ani­ma­tion cels (I believe). –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  4. I’m not very famil­iar with the term; see NAv­ery­W’s reply below:

    “An ani­matic is basi­cally the sto­ry­board set as… not quite an ani­ma­tion, but timed to how the final movie will look. It usu­ally has voice-overs and some­times sound effects and music. It’s also known as a ”.

  5. “he’s a CM direc­tor who is cred­ited in the Rebuild films as Anno’s assis­tant and also as being involved in pub­lic­ity or adver­tis­ing. In the inter­views so far he’s been men­tioned as tak­ing notes at Atami [see Enokido Memo 1] and mod­i­fy­ing one of the 1.0 posters accord­ing to Anno’s direc­tions”. http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=438684#438684↩︎

  6. “To be hon­est, my first instinct was to trans­late 『良いキャラ』 as”real char­ac­ter“, where”good" means “well-de­vel­oped”. So, “real char­ac­ter” or “well-de­vel­oped char­ac­ter”. On the other hand, the con­text seemed to sug­gest that maybe Tsu­ru­maki was propos­ing soft­en­ing Asuka’s char­ac­ter so that the audi­ence could­n’t fail to become emo­tion­ally invested in her before the Unit-03 sequence. In the end, I felt unsure, so I just trans­lated it lit­er­al­ly. I think symbv would cer­tainly under­stand the remark, but I’m not 100% sure what it mean­t". http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=461297#461297

    [sym­bv] “…I would lean towards a trans­la­tion to”good char­ac­ter" as well. It allows all the ambi­gu­ity to stay intact. As for inter­pre­ta­tion, I would go for mak­ing audi­ence emo­tion­ally invested in Asuka deep­er. I have not seen Rebuild but from the exam­ples he gave and what I already knew about the food par­ty, I would say that they wanted to make Asuka a “nice girl” whom Shinji could feel cer­tain empa­thy, and thus gave him the “shock and sense of loss” on Tou­ji’s level (whom Shinji defi­nitely had close rela­tion­ship with) as in the series". http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=461351#461351↩︎

  7. Urban Dic­tio­nary defines it as

    "An instance where a char­ac­ter is sub­ject to extreme dan­ger fore­shad­owed with grim impli­ca­tions. Exam­ples of death flag­ging:

    • Unknow­ingly tick­ing off a unsta­ble indi­vid­ual.
    • Won­der­ing into a zone at the wrong time.
    • Tak­ing on a dan­ger­ous deed with slim chances of suc­cess.
    • Short sighted approach to a ludi­crous even­t."

    The NSFW site Dan­booru defines it as

    (Shi­bou Furagu) A sign to the audi­ence that a char­ac­ter is going to die. A death flag is usu­ally raised by such things as say­ing or doing some­thing that can be seen as tempt­ing fate, a char­ac­ter doing some­thing that he or she has been warned (some­times repeat­ed­ly) will lead to death, an unre­quited rela­tion­ship finally being requit­ed, etc.”

    See also TvTropes on “Tempt­ing Fate”↩︎

  8. See the sto­ry­board of that scene.↩︎

  9. “Cor­rect me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this whole sec­tion regard­ing the scrapped (sto­ry­board) sequence of Mari and Asuka work­ing together in the Entry Plug (of Eva-02?)? Or does it actu­ally refer to the final film prod­uct of Mari com­pared to Asuka?” http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=461196#461196

    “This does refer to that sto­ry­boarded sequence. Judg­ing from the com­ments in the other inter­views, I think what hap­pened in it was that Mari was given Unit-02 after the sync test (based on Enoki­do’s idea) and then Asuka sneaks on board Unit-02 any­way, so after the fight Mari pre­sum­ably makes some excuse to pre­vent Asuka from being pun­ished. It was a very strange series of ideas, so I can’t say I’m dis­ap­pointed it did­n’t end up being used!” http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=461276#461276↩︎

  10. Mar­i’s actions dur­ing the bat­tle with the 10th angel.↩︎

  11. The edi­tor men­tions in the end­notes that Anno is refer­ring to Chizuru Nan­bara from .↩︎

  12. Makoto Kosaka, who also voiced Hiromi Oka from .↩︎

  13. Mean­ing that Kaji feeds Shinji with chop­stick­s…!↩︎

  14. In the video “Hideaki Anno talks to kids”, Anno expresses lit­tle inter­est in food and lists a restricted diet (as one might expect of an ani­ma­tor). It is inter­est­ing to com­pare his new­found inter­est to ; from “Ground­ing a Romance in Mem­o­ries”, 2013-03-07:

    Home­-cooked meals play a sig­nifi­cant role in . Umi is usu­ally the one respon­si­ble for mak­ing meals at the board­ing­house where she lives with her grand­moth­er, sib­lings and other res­i­dents. In an early scene she pre­pares rice and eggs for break­fast. In other scenes she shops for food. And the lunches she takes to school are the envy of her class­mates: mouth­wa­ter­ing con­coc­tions like an obento box, includ­ing cod roe, pick­led plum, Japan­ese omelets and spinach with sesame dress­ing. “To eat is to live, and ani­mated char­ac­ters can’t really come to life if they don’t feel alive,” Mr. [Goro] Miyazaki said. “So eat­ing was some­thing I looked very closely at. How char­ac­ters eat can tell you a lot about them. And while they’re eat­ing, what they’re think­ing at the time can be expressed too.” Mr. Miyazaki included a num­ber of eat­ing scenes but said it was­n’t until he fin­ished the film that he fully real­ized the impor­tance of food in it.


  15. Some­one with a license who does­n’t dri­ve.↩︎

  16. sakka­sei↩︎

  17. Sakuga is an ani­ma­tion term which gen­er­ally refers to , top ani­ma­tors who do them, and the scenes them­selves which are gen­er­ally par­tic­u­larly impor­tant or strik­ing move­ments or actions. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  18. The fos­sil mon­ster Ste­gon, which appears in episode 10 (“The Dinosaur Explo­sion Direc­tive”) of the tokusatsu series . A dinosaur fos­sil dis­cov­ered at a con­struc­tion site revives as a skele­tal mon­ster.↩︎

  19. Among tokusatsu staff, the depart­ment which causes the activ­ity of non-hu­man actors such as minia­tures. In the case of a mon­ster cos­tume, they con­trol those parts which do not con­form to the human body, such as a long neck, tail, or wings, using hang­ing wires (). In “Pre­lude”, the fifth angel was also depicted accord­ing to the con­cept of [an appar­ent­ly] wire-u­ti­liz­ing “souen style” CG.↩︎

  20. A num­ber of rad­i­cal­ly-de­signed pavil­ions in the 1970 Osaka World’s Fair were cre­ated accord­ing to an archi­tec­tural school of thought called “Metab­o­lism” which had been put forth by a then-y­oung group of archi­tects. The Toshiba IHI pavil­ion, designed by Kisho Kurokawa, was a typ­i­cal exam­ple, a struc­ture of linked tetra­he­dral units made of black iron. [For images & links, see the later dis­cus­sion of the Toshiba IHI pavil­ion. –Ed­i­tor]↩︎

  21. Mecha which appear in great num­bers and tend to sup­port or be destroyed by the main char­ac­ters. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  22. An exam­ple of the mosaic effect can be seen at 0:45 in a trailer, or shield and steer­ing screen­shots. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  23. The SF novel Japan Sinks has had con­sid­er­able influ­ence over the years. In par­tic­u­lar, Yasuhiro Takeda men­tions in his that the novel author often worked with him and other Gainax­ers on SF events; Hideaki Anno was inter­viewed by him in 1999 or 2000; and the book comes up in Toshio & Sawarag­i’s . –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  24. This refers to the color of every­thing going red when the dummy plug is acti­vated in episode 18. “Para” is short for “paraffin”. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  25. The spe­cific part is prob­a­bly page 07, “Eva-01 faces off against the Apos­tolo Sahaquiel. (Orig­i­nal draw­ing by Yo Yoshi­nari; paint­ing by Sadamo­to.)” and page 31, “Apos­tolo Sahaquiel (An­gel of the Sky), wheel­ing over Toky­o-3” against an spear-wield­ing Evan­ge­lion. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  26. Refers, I think, to decid­ing which parts of an image or design will be col­ored what col­or. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  27. Pivot Turn: Des­ig­nates a maneu­ver where, by hav­ing the treads on both sides of a tank or piece of heavy machin­ery roll in oppo­site direc­tions at exactly the same speed, the body can turn in any direc­tion with­out mov­ing [for­wards or back­ward­s]. Ritai refers to treads that allow the tra­ver­sal of uneven ground. They are also called crawler or cater­pil­lar [tread­s]; how­ev­er, the widely known name “cater­pil­lar” is a reg­is­tered trade­mark.↩︎

  28. Trol­ley Sys­tem: A sys­tem whereby elec­tric­ity can be gath­ered from aer­ial wires using a power col­lec­tor mounted on the roof of a train car, such as a . Also called “aer­ial wire power col­lec­tion sys­tem.”↩︎

  29. R-type Mis­sile: A mod­i­fied ver­sion of the , the A-2 rock­et, has been used for the launch­ing of Russ­ian space­crafts such as the .↩︎

  30. Pro­duc­ing the Yam­ato Model Design: Hideaki Anno sought a [phys­i­cal] image of his ideal Space Bat­tle­ship Yam­a­to, and real­ized it through a Shoichi Man­abe pro­to­type. Through the co-op­er­a­tion of the Bandai Visual and Bandai Hobby divi­sions [of Bandai], it was made into a 30cm long plas­tic model and included as an extra in the “Space Bat­tle­ship Yam­ato TV DVD-Box,” which went on sale in Feb­ru­ary 2008. In the release mate­ri­als the fol­low­ing words of chief [mod­el] super­vi­sor Hideaki Anno are record­ed. “With this model I was finally able to give form to the images I pre­served [within myself] of the Yam­a­to’s hul­l—the image [of the Yam­a­to] in the open­ing sequence, espe­cially where the cam­era pulls back from the Cap­tain’s cab­in; the full side-im­age of the Yam­ato as it launches in episode 3, and the iden­ti­cal dou­ble-page spread in black and white from the Yam­ato illus­trated guide; the image from the ful­l-color pull­out from the Yam­ato illus­trated guide [?]; the color cover image from the March issue of Boken-o ["K­ing of Adven­ture" manga mag­a­zine]; and so on.”↩︎

  31. A com­peti­tor to ; archived home­page.↩︎

  32. 公開前に鶴巻(和哉)さんに取材したとき,「エヴァ」を破壊するにあたって榎戸さんのアイデアが随所に盛り込まれているとうかがったので,興味があります。↩︎

  33. 綾波レイってどこかお母さんに似ているという設定ですから,男の子からすれば半分子宮の中にいるような距離感です。↩︎

  34. It seems that this memo is not repro­duced in the CRC.↩︎

  35. Scan↩︎

  36. 『序』の公開直後に大きいな転換点へ↩︎

  37. “Destroy” [破壊] is a play upon “Break” [破].↩︎

  38. むしろひとりの視点の方が混乱しなくて良いかも・・・・・・というのが私の意見でもあるので、どうかよろしくお願いします。↩︎

  39. きっと自分では壊しづらかったんでしょうね。それはものすごくよく分かるし、仕方がないとも思う。↩︎

  40. 『破』のプロット開発は『序』の現場に入る前に、すでに進んでました。↩︎

  41. 庵野さんには負担をかけたくないから、貞本さんのキャラ表があって本編中に正規のキャラクターとして登場するのであれば、それでいい。そんなニュアンスだったんですね。↩︎

  42. 別の事情として、↩︎

  43. マリの登場シーン増加で発生したこと↩︎

  44. Num­ber­s-kun explains this:

    Anno did write both scripts him­self. As I cur­rently under­stand it, the idea of a new char­ac­ter was sug­gested by Otsuki dur­ing the first film, and I believe Anno let Tsu­ru­maki and Sadamoto design the char­ac­ter’s appear­ance at that point, check­ing back with him at cer­tain points (to see if Anno liked what they did). Anno wrote her into the ini­tial “Ha” script, but in such a way that she had a very min­i­mal role and it was­n’t really clear what her per­son­al­ity was like. When Anno began rewrit­ing the script to give her a big­ger role, this is where the diffi­cul­ties emerged. The feel­ing among Tsu­ru­maki and oth­ers, I think, was that they were being given these scenes to sto­ry­board with­out Anno hav­ing any sense of what kind of char­ac­ter she was. As Tsu­ru­maki says, Anno’s inter­est in her was more “the­matic” or abstract. Anno wanted to use her to “break” Eva, but he had­n’t actu­ally devel­oped her as a char­ac­ter, and what devel­op­ment had been done had been pri­mar­ily done by oth­ers. At least, that’s how I under­stand things so far, and how I would under­stand Enoki­do’s com­ment.

  45. これがすぐにまたもとに戻っていくんですよ (笑)。↩︎

  46. This is where some­one sits behinds you, usu­ally con­cealed, and acts as your arms.↩︎

  47. さっき言われた「TVシリーズの『エヴァンゲリオン』がかなり強固だった」という感じは、そういう意味では確かにあったと思うんですよ。↩︎

  48. それを修正しようとすると、あちこちで膨大な処理というか、つじつま合わせをしなきゃいけない。↩︎

  49. 脚本のため、合宿をされるほど検討をされても、煮詰めきれないものがあったということでしょうか。↩︎

  50. 結局、一番すんなり行くんですよ。↩︎

  51. 第拾九話相当の流れということですね。↩︎

  52. 明らかに映画の中と外、物語と現実世界との間にそういう構造があるわけで。それも含めて「映画」なんですね。↩︎

  53. 「エヴァを『破』にするってそういうことか」という点で、ものすごく刺激的なお話ですね。↩︎

  54. TVシリーズ第拾九話に潜んでいたマジック↩︎

  55. 本当に一個ひっくり返したことが、いちいち全部後につながって生きてくる構造になっていて、すごいなと思ったわけです。↩︎

  56. そんな感じのことがあちこちにあるんですね。↩︎

  57. See the geog­ra­phy here: http://punynari.wordpress.com/2010/05/23/english-hakone-instrumentality-map/ The moun­tain is listed there as “Mt. Daigatake”.↩︎

  58. BANK” is a script direc­tion indi­cat­ing the usage of pre-ex­ist­ing footage. It’s used once, for exam­ple, in the 2.0 script as part of the direc­tions for a brief flash­back to the first film. Cf. Reichu here: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=194288#194288↩︎

  59. Prob­a­bly one of the pas­sages Num­ber­s-kun pre­vi­ously wrote of: “In a cou­ple of places I could­n’t fig­ure out any sat­is­fy­ing ren­di­tion with cer­tain­ty, so I just left the Japan­ese as it was. None of those instances con­tain cru­cial infor­ma­tion, but tend to just rein­force what’s being said in the con­text.”↩︎

  60. The shot Tsu­ru­maki is refer­ring to occurs some­where around 11:23–11:30 in episode 19.↩︎

  61. だから 「乗らないぞ」と言うのは、そうしないと乗ってしまうからだと。↩︎

  62. 勉強みたいな些細な話ならまだいいけど、↩︎

  63. だってこのパンフのインタビューにしても本当は「嫌だな」って思ってる。↩︎

  64. インタビューのことはどうでもいいんだけど(笑)、僕はそういう感じなんです。↩︎

  65. これはあくまで想像ですけど、↩︎

  66. だから、あれって庵野さんの目を盗んでシンジのキャラをかなり描き変えているんじゃないかと思うんですよ。↩︎

  67. そう受け取れる 感じに仕上がっているわけです。↩︎

  68. 摩砂雪さんの言い方は「いや庵野がさ、こう言ってたからこうしたんだけどさ。まあまあまあ」みたな感じでしたから(笑)。↩︎

  69. これは僕のように決定的な対立や否定を生まないよう、相当うまくごまかして両立させたんじゃないかと。↩︎

  70. エヴァの構造を強固にする存在とは?↩︎

  71. 帰納的↩︎

  72. 演繹的↩︎

  73. それを積み重ねていくような演繹的な人なんです。↩︎

  74. 人格↩︎

  75. I would instinc­tively read this as “I return again (de­spite what I intend­ed)”. Maybe “I have returned again.” Or “the film has returned…” Or “Eva returns…”. Any thoughts on this? ^^ Might need the orig­i­nal con­text.↩︎

  76. 「全記録全集 序」の庵野秀明総監督への取材時の印象と違うため、こういう聞き方で掘り下げている。↩︎

  77. [Mr.] Hikawa, who assisted with the adver­tis­ing for “Pre­lude”, had seen a few of the drafts of the designs for the “Stairs Poster” that became a key visual [for the “Rebuild” film­s]; how­ev­er, none of them hon­estly struck him. One day, when he was shown the ver­sion of the poster with var­i­ous “key words” writ­ten hor­i­zon­tally across it, he received the impres­sion “Sud­den­ly, it’s become ‘Eva’!” and forth­rightly com­mu­ni­cated his shock to the peo­ple in charge at that time. That ver­sion was not con­tributed by the design­er. Hideaki Anno had per­son­ally directed his assis­tant, Ikki Todor­oki, to cre­ate it. When this came out, Hikawa expe­ri­enced a sec­ond shock and made the remark in ques­tion. (See page 305 of Ikki Todor­oki’s inter­view.)↩︎

  78. いつもミスター・エヴァが常にスイッチを好きな方へ倒してきたってことですね。↩︎

  79. Accord­ing to 2 Anno inter­views in 2011 & 2012, this is lit­er­al: Anno per­son­ally funded the devel­op­ment of Khara & Rebuild: “Suzuki: You made [the new] Eva with your own money?/ Anno: Yeah. / Suzuki: Incred­i­ble. / Anno: 100 per­cent [—]. It is a risk, but also an oppor­tu­nity for return.” and “The pro­duc­tion cost of the new works has been entirely financed by Stu­dio Khara, with­out invit­ing con­tri­bu­tions from out­side investors. They are so-called ‘inde­pen­dently pro­duced works.’” –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  80. ??? 2 そういう抵抗というか葛藤のかいもあって、最終的には何とか壊れた『破』になったのではないでしょうか。↩︎

  81. 結果的には、庵野さんが言っていた「シンジは本当に乗りたくないんだ」ということをそのままストレートに表現つもりです。だから「本当は乗らなきゃいけないと分かっているシンジが最終的に乗る」という僕の拾九話の解釈とは明確に違った話にしています。↩︎

  82. http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=412023#412023↩︎

  83. http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=412354#412354↩︎

  84. 三人目のレイに託そうとした想い↩︎

  85. アスカを3号機に乗せるための動機にも連動していることなので、思っていたよりも強い描き方になってしまいましたね↩︎

  86. There is a foot­note about this. It refers to Anno’s desire to bring the “live feel­ing” of the­ater into ani­me.↩︎

  87. その結果、略奪婚に来たみたいに見えますよね。“略奪婚” refers, I believe, to the ancient prac­tice of abduct­ing one’s bride from a hos­tile tribe. Today I believe it’s used to mean a mar­riage that results from an adul­ter­ous affair, i.e.“steal­ing a husband/wife from some­one”. I assume the orig­i­nal mean­ing must be intended here?↩︎

  88. ―今回、平和島みたいな第7使徒など使徒のデザインが根本からすべて変わりましたが、それは最初からの意図ですか?↩︎

  89. 鶴巻 第7使徒は、実はTV版第八話の原画がまるまる紛失していて、BANKが使えなかったという事情がそもそもの理由です。もし原画が残っていたら、作監(作画監督)はやり直すにしても第八話のエピソードはまるごと残ったかもしれません。原画を流用できないなら、アスカ登場シーンは全部変えましょうってことです。デザインはコヤマシゲトさんと小松田(大全)君でまとめて、最終的にはCG上で詰めた感じですね。あの使徒も硬くて複雑なものがゆっくり動く、 CGが生きるようなデザインなので、作画ではなかなか難しいかと。↩︎

  90. ―第8使徒は、デザイナーはどなたですか。↩︎

  91. 鶴巻 落下する使徒のデザインは全体が前田真宏さんで、中から出てくるヒト型は本田君ですね。僕の担当パートではないので詳しくは分からないけど、あの CGは相当大変だったと思いますよ。『序』のときの第6使徒は、完全ではないにせよなんとなく勝利ポイントが見えていて、そのゴールにどう近づくかという進め方でしたが、落下してくる使徒はゴールがよく見えない中でかなり試行錯誤していたように思えます。↩︎

  92. ―第3使徒のデザインは『ぼくらの』の鬼頭莫宏さんですよね。↩︎

  93. 鶴巻 そうです。あれには庵野さんの大ラフがありますが、鬼頭さんから出たアイデアがほぼ一発で決定みたいな感じでした。↩︎

  94. ―もっとも役割が変わった感もある問題の第10使徒ですが、なぜデザインを変えたのでしょうか。↩︎

  95. http://wiki.evageeks.org/File:Eva01,protosahaq.jpg↩︎

  96. 鶴巻 理由は僕には分からないです。最初のプロット段階では変形することすら決まってなかったと思うんです。もともとTV版の第14使徒は秀逸なアイデアが入っているデザインで、特にパタパタパタという折りたたみ式の腕が面白いんです。あの仕掛けはTV用の企画書に、折り紙みたいな腕の部分だけが空中に浮いている使徒と初号機が戦っているイメージボードが載っているくらい最初からあるアイデアなので、それを変えた理由はよく分からないですね。↩︎

  97. TVの第拾九話ではEVAが使徒を喰いますが、『破』では使徒がEVAを喰う。この逆転はすごいと思います。観客はまず変形してビックリ、喰うところで二重にビックリ。『破』を象徴する使徒だろうと思います。↩︎

  98. 鶴巻 『破』では対3号機戦で、直接喰うというのとは違いますが、印象として捕食と似たアイデアを使ってしまっていますから。TVなら一週間たっているので構わないのかもしれませんが、映画で三〇分前に似た印象のシーンがあるのはまずいだろうとは思っていました。変形というよりは、あれはだんだん成長していく感じですね。次第にヒトに近づいていくみたいな。あれもコンテ作業に入ってしまったのにデザインが固まっていなくて、日々変わっていくんです。コンテ上でも時期によって何種類も別のデザインで描かれているんですよ。あの使徒の最終形態のデザインは、僕は戦隊シリーズの悪の女幹部みたいなやつにしたかったなあって、いまだに思ってるんですが。↩︎

  99. えっ、かぶりものということですか。↩︎

  100. Lit­er­ally some­thing like “forced syn­the­sis”. I think it means some­thing like com­bin­ing two images, etc., from differ­ent sources. May­be, in the con­text, some­thing like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlRiWTE4CQc↩︎

  101. 鶴巻 ええ。ライダーマンみたいに口から鼻まで女性の顔が出てて、目から上の頭部は使徒に覆われて、体は裸のまま巨大になってる。その案を出したら即刻却下されました(笑)。戦隊ものだとよく山の向こうに巨大化して大暴れしてるシーンがありますよね。無理やりな合成で軽い発泡スチロールの岩を蹴散らして。ああいうイメージでしたが、絵を見せたら庵野さんがやっぱりだめだと。僕はどちらかと言えば、仮面ライダーよりも戦隊ものの方が好きな人間ですが、庵野さんは戦隊ものはあくまでギャグとして好きということで、本気で好きではないのかもしれませんね。でも、結果的には面白いデザインになったと思います。↩︎

  102. I think this term refers to how a sequence is “blocked”, or how the shots are set up, and there­fore points to some­thing like the cin­e­matog­ra­phy, but I am not very famil­iar with the term.↩︎

  103. その使徒の戦いではTV版拾九話と同じカット割りがありますね。一番印象的な発令所に初号機がなだれ込んでくるカットとか。↩︎

  104. 鶴巻 あの辺はコンテ的にはそのままで、使徒のデザインが違う以上、変わらざるを得ない部分だけ修正するという処理にしました。最初はカット割りごと全部変えるべきだろうと思ってはいたんですが、変えてもうまくいかないんですよ。僕にとっては第拾九話を変えること自体がものすごいストレスなので、変えれば変えるほどクオリティが下がっていくような気がするんです。↩︎

  105. いいかげ↩︎

  106. ずるい↩︎

  107. 卑怯↩︎

  108. ずるさ↩︎

  109. まじめさ↩︎

  110. かたくなさ↩︎

  111. いい塩梅さ↩︎

  112. ふまじめさ↩︎

  113. あくまでも声質・キャラクターの作り方には、むしろマッチしないことの面白さがあるから、↩︎

  114. キャラクターを貫く声の存在感↩︎

  115. それぐらい僕にとって、マリと坂本さんに接近している部分がなかったんです。↩︎

  116. Appar­ently a stereo­typ­i­cal bat­tle-cry; one site defines it as “what you say when you punch some­body repeat­ed­ly. A fight­ing taunt or war cry; we’ve had it loosely trans­lated as ‘Take that!’ ‘Try this!’ (see also dorya, orya, sorya, uraa)”↩︎

  117. 「役者・イコール・キャラ」ぐらい強固なことを求められていることになるわけですか。↩︎

  118. I’m not sure why the design is described with ref­er­ence to “Hei­wa­ji­ma.” This is also men­tioned dur­ing the Tsu­ru­maki inter­view. My guess is that its a ref­er­ence to a mon­u­ment in Hei­wa­jima Koen: http://1000enpark.com/park/tokyo/oota/photo_heiwajima/p_main.jpg.↩︎

  119. I marked parts I felt uneasy about, and left out a line I was­n’t sure how to trans­late.↩︎

  120. http://www.kisho.co.jp/page.php/211 bot­tom, or see Wiki­me­dia Com­mons.↩︎

  121. Reichu: “Yeah, ラフ refers to a rough draw­ing or sketch in ani­ma­tor jar­gon.”↩︎

  122. http://blog-soth.blogspot.com/2010/10/evangelion-20-complete-records.html↩︎

  123. Reichu↩︎

  124. A later cor­rec­tion:

    I’m not sure what I was think­ing, but セル is not “Seele” but “seru,” prob­a­bly either “cell” or “cel.” “The water’s sur­face is [a/the] [cell/cel].” Maybe refers to an ani­ma­tion cel, or some­thing else?

    Patrick Yip:

    水面はセル means extra ani­ma­tion cel should be used to depict the water sur­face (not some CG for exam­ple).

  125. Num­ber­s-kun↩︎

  126. Trans­la­tion by SSD based on this scan.↩︎

  127. SSD↩︎