Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection

Translated interviews about making ‘Evangelion 2.0’ w/Anno, Higuchi, Enokido, & Tsurumaki
anime, NGE, interview
by: Ryusuke Hikawa, Hideaki Anno, Shinji Higuchi, Yōji Enokido, Kazuya Tsurumaki, Mohiro Kitoh, Shigeto Koyama, Yoshito Asari 2011-08-292015-08-31 in progress certainty: log importance: 1

The Evan­ge­lion 2.0 Com­plete Records Col­lec­tion (ISBN 978-4-905033-00-4) is a large offi­cial book re­leased after ; it con­tains the sto­ry­boards, var­i­ous draft el­e­ments, an­no­ta­tions, and mul­ti­ple ex­ten­sive in­ter­views with peo­ple in­volved in mak­ing the film by Ryusuke Hikawa (氷川竜介). This is an edited com­pi­la­tion of Num­ber­s-kun’s trans­la­tions of the CRC, var­i­ously posted on the Evageeks fo­rum (fo­rum dis­cus­sion of the book).


Hideaki Anno

Part 1


The re­sponse to the “Break” [Evan­ge­lion 2.0] pre­view as the im­pe­tus for ma­jor changes

— I’d like to ask you about “Break”. Pre­pro­duc­tion for “Break”—in­clud­ing work on the sce­nario and the set­tei1—was un­der­way at the same time as “Pre­lude” []. That was be­cause, I think, they were con­sec­u­tive works, planned to be suc­ces­sively re­leased. That plan was sig­nifi­cantly changed. I’d like to hear how it came about that you re­vised the script that ex­isted at the time of the “Pre­lude” pre­miere. Things changed just fol­low­ing the pre­miere, right?

: Right. It was from that point that the big changes were made.

— If I was to make a con­jec­ture on the ba­sis of the var­i­ous [CRC] in­ter­views, dur­ing work on “Pre­lude” there was a ver­sion of the script that did not yet in­clude the most in­ter­est­ing parts. [[*] TODO what did this foot­note re­fer to?] [Sh­in­ji] said that he had drawn sto­ry­boards based upon the script at that time.

An­no: Cer­tain­ly, a script had been writ­ten by March 2007, at the same time “Pre­lude” was be­ing made. The eleventh draft be­came the fi­nal ver­sion of that script. Work on the sto­ry­boards was also tak­ing place dur­ing “Pre­lude” from that ear­lier ver­sion of the script. From the point of view of quan­ti­ty, I think the first drafts were al­ready com­pleted for about two-thirds of the whole. That’s be­cause we had planned to be­gin work on “Break” with­out any pause or in­ter­rup­tion once “Pre­lude” was fin­ished. How­ev­er, I could­n’t live up to it. After the [“Pre­lude”] pre­miere, I de­cided to look again at the con­tent of the sec­ond part, start­ing from ze­ro.

— Was the highly fa­vor­able re­ac­tion of the view­ers at the pre­miere a sig­nifi­cant rea­son for that?

An­no: Yeah. It started after I heard the re­ac­tion to the pre­view at the Mi­lano the­ater in Shin­juku. [“Pre­lude”] was a the­atri­cal film, but be­cause I wanted the for­mat to be the same as the TV se­ries, I in­tended from the be­gin­ning to in­sert a “pre­view” [at the end]. The same mu­sic would be used. I thought, as “ser­vice”, it would please the view­ers of the orig­i­nal work. How­ev­er, I did­n’t ex­pect that big a re­ac­tion. Orig­i­nal­ly, I thought, be­cause there would be a “gap” un­til the sec­ond part, at­tach­ing a pre­view at the end would in­crease the view­ers’ an­tic­i­pa­tion. I also ex­pected that, among the view­ers, there would be some for whom this [pre­view] would be the “peak” of the film. How­ev­er, this was more than I imag­ined. In par­tic­u­lar, the re­ac­tion to the new char­ac­ter was big­ger than I ex­pect­ed.

— At the the­ater I went to, [the crowd] was ex­tremely charged up, even at the very end.

An­no: Right. I did­n’t ex­pect that much. The staff who went to see [the film] were also deeply im­pressed and ex­cited [by the re­ac­tion].

In the first ver­sion of the plot I thought of, the new char­ac­ter would have a very ac­tive role from the third part on. I did­n’t think the char­ac­ter would do any more than make an ap­pear­ance in the sec­ond part. Al­though, be­cause she ap­peared in the orig­i­nal se­ries, she does­n’t seem much like a new char­ac­ter, Asuka was also a highly im­por­tant “new char­ac­ter” who, in the Re­build films, would ap­pear from the sec­ond part on. Be­cause I would surely place em­pha­sis upon [?] Asuka, I did­n’t in­tend to se­ri­ously deal with a new char­ac­ter in the sec­ond part. How­ev­er, there was so much an­tic­i­pa­tion for the new char­ac­ter among the view­ers that I felt I had to re­spond to that. So, I de­cided to in­crease the num­ber of the new char­ac­ter’s ap­pear­ances. It was at that point that I first be­gan the work of re­view­ing the sec­ond part. The strength of the re­sponse to the pre­view, the in­ten­sity of the view­ers, sig­nifi­cantly changed the way I looked at “Break”. It moved my heart, and the “rud­der” of the work be­gan to sig­nifi­cantly shift.

— How did the ac­tual work [process] change?

An­no: There was the con­tent of the film, the script, but I be­gan by look­ing at how I was mak­ing the films.

Dur­ing the mak­ing of the first part, “Pre­lude”, I feel like I was half-fix­ated [?] on reen­act­ing the TV se­ries. Be­cause we had lacked mon­ey, work­ers, and time, I wanted to recre­ate the old ma­te­r­i­al. I was so fix­ated on the idea of reen­ac­tion that I was mak­ing [the film] with­out de­vi­at­ing from the tim­ing of the [o­rig­i­nal] timesheets. Half-way through I re­al­ized that it was okay to al­ter the timesheets. Al­though it might seem strange, de­spite [the film be­ing] a kind of “new, dig­i­tal sat­suei2 work”, I was overly hung up on the ini­tial phrase, “film re­make”. Dur­ing the ini­tial screen­ing of “Pre­lude”, I felt that, if I had gone this far in up­dat­ing all the im­ages, I could have de­vi­ated a bit more from the [o­rig­i­nal] sto­ry­boards. [?] The orig­i­nal con­cep­tion was that the films would start out from the same place as the TV se­ries, but I felt I was too fix­ated upon that place. So, from the sec­ond part on­wards, I in­tended to aban­don those el­e­ments “fix­ated” on the orig­i­nal se­ries and pro­ceed with the feel­ing that I was mak­ing an en­tirely new work. I would set out from “ground zero”.

To be­gin with, I nat­u­rally thought I would cor­rect my mis­take by al­ter­ing the script. The scripted plot, at that stage, was still de­vel­op­ing in ac­cor­dance with the orig­i­nal work, and with a view to uti­liz­ing the genga3 of the orig­i­nal work, so from that point I de­cided to make changes. I re­turned the plot and the out­line to their ini­tial state and re­ex­am­ined things from the be­gin­ning. In or­der to ex­am­ine the drama and the course of the plot as a whole, and to es­tab­lish the new char­ac­ter, Mari [Mak­i­nami], I held a re­treat. This mainly in­volved scru­ti­niz­ing the out­line with the di­rec­toral camp and (Y­o­ji) Enoki­do-san, who was par­tic­i­pat­ing once again [ow­ing to Tsu­ru­mak­i’s sug­ges­tion ?]. It was only men; we shut our­selves up in Atami for three days and two nights. At that point new ideas and dras­tic amend­ments to the plot were pro­posed—­for ex­am­ple, Masayuk­i’s sug­ges­tion that, fol­low­ing the main ti­tle, the film be­gin with the grave­yard vis­it, or Enoki­do-san’s sug­ges­tion of a Shin­ji-Mari “Love Love” pair­ing. From that point, a ful­l-s­cale re­vi­sion had se­ri­ously be­gun.

— No changes were made to Mar­i’s ap­pear­ance in the pre-ti­tle se­quence it­self?

An­no: Right. Mari and the pro­vi­sional Unit-05, the third an­gel, and so on—the idea of be­gin­ning with this char­ac­ter and this mecha that we’ve never seen be­fore, and this new set­ting, “Bethany Base”, out­side of Hakone—this re­mained un­changed from the first draft out­line. The plan of the bat­tle, Mar­i’s di­a­logue and per­son­al­i­ty—these sort of things changed, but the course it­self, the gen­eral course of the story of the pre-ti­tle se­quence, did­n’t change. I wanted it to im­pact both view­ers of the orig­i­nal se­ries and peo­ple for whom “Break” was their first time see­ing Eva. I thought that, al­though peo­ple fa­mil­iar with the orig­i­nal se­ries would be over­whelmed with un­fa­mil­iar things [?], be­cause of Ka­ji, there was a com­mon de­nom­i­na­tor which could en­able them to feel se­cure for the mo­ment. Start­ing with Eng­lish and Russ­ian di­a­logue with Japan­ese sub­ti­tles was the same. First of all, I wanted to be­gin the film with the im­pres­sion of things be­ing differ­ent than they have been up un­til now.

— The pro­vi­sional Unit-05 was not a fa­mil­iar EVA with a “bipedal” form.

An­no: Right. I wanted to in­tro­duce an un­fa­mil­iar Eva with a form you could im­me­di­ately iden­tify as differ­ent. I also want­ed, for the pre-ti­tle se­quence, to try to cre­ate fully CG im­ages, in­clud­ing the an­gel and the Eva. A fully CG bat­tle was it­self, within Eva, an un­fa­mil­iar im­age, [so I wanted to use it] for the pre-ti­tle se­quence. I also had an “ex­per­i­men­tal” in­ten­tion. To what ex­tent was a fully CG Eva bat­tle pos­si­ble? I thought it would be good if we could test tech­ni­cal things out or ex­per­i­ment with how things are set up within the work. The form and de­tails were com­plex, with the four legs, and so on. It would have taken a lot of time and effort to draw by hand; the de­sign is con­sid­er­ably diffi­cult to draw. It was a bat­tle scene where the move­ment and so on could­n’t be effi­ciently drawn if we did­n’t use CG, so I wanted to take this op­por­tu­nity to ex­per­i­ment with it. We had also put to­gether a com­plex de­sign for the an­gel in­tended to be ren­dered in CG. The back­ground an­i­ma­tion was also some­thing where its cre­ation was di­rected with an eye to CG. [?] I fig­ured, in ad­di­tion, that the pre-ti­tle se­quence was the be­gin­ning of the work, so there was plenty of time left on the pro­duc­tion sched­ule. Even if there were var­i­ous diffi­cul­ties with a full CG bat­tle scene, I fig­ured that we had plenty of time to in­ves­ti­gate the diffi­cul­ties us­ing an­i­mat­ics4 and so on.

How­ev­er, in the end, for var­i­ous rea­sons, we ran out of time. There were cuts that worked well in the an­i­mat­ics, but, to sum things up, they did­n’t re­ally go as planned, which was a bit un­for­tu­nate. [?] Among other things, we added in hand-drawn effects, and in­tro­duced CG ex­plo­sions. In­clud­ing the sat­suei treat­ment, we con­tin­ued ex­per­i­ment­ing with var­i­ous things un­til we al­most ran out of time. As an on-screen im­age, I think the fi­nal re­sult paid off. How­ev­er…

— CG was used in “Pre­lude”, but here there is more ac­tion, and things have much pro­gressed.

An­no: Yeah. With peo­ple who can draw the Eva genga re­ally well be­ing lim­it­ed, if I wanted to main­tain or in­crease the qual­i­ty—I thought from the out­set that I wanted to re­place, as much as pos­si­ble, el­e­ments like walk­ing and run­ning move­ments, which would orig­i­nally just get re­peated [?], with CG. The an­gels, as well—s­ince I con­ceived of the plot I in­tended to make all the an­gels mostly CG, ex­clud­ing Unit-03 (the ninth an­gel) and the fi­nal tenth an­gel—the op­po­site of the pat­tern from “Pre­lude”. There, we be­gan with hand-drawn an­gels, and ended with full CG. I con­sid­ered the to­tal amount of work to be done and its al­lo­ca­tion be­tween hand-drawn and CG parts, and the script re­flects that con­sid­er­a­tion. [?] I al­ways take pro­duc­tion-re­lated risks into ac­count, so the num­ber or amount of bat­tle scenes are de­cided in ad­vance, be­fore start­ing the script or the script out­line.

Part 2


A script bogged down in re­vi­sions upon re­vi­sions

— It seems that dur­ing the scriptwrit­ing process an enor­mous num­ber of se­ri­ous re­vi­sions ac­cu­mu­lat­ed.

An­no: Yeah. Count­ing both large and small re­vi­sions, there was a to­tal of more than forty re­vi­sions of the script. The first ma­jor changes took place from No­vem­ber 2006 to the start of De­cem­ber, while we were still work­ing on “Pre­lude”.

— What sort of changes were those?

An­no: Asuka be­came the test pi­lot for Unit-03. Up un­til that point Touji had been the test sub­ject, just as in the TV se­ries. The only differ­ence was that Shinji knew that in ad­vance. Up to that point, the script as a whole was filled with var­i­ous “nu­ances” re­mind­ing of, or “tastes” of, the orig­i­nal se­ries: an “adult” de­pic­tion of Kaji and Mis­ato, Asuka’s dis­cord with her moth­er, Asuka’s idol­iza­tion of Kaji and her im­me­di­ate friend­ship with Hikari, and so on. In ad­di­tion, the cli­max around this time was a kind of syn­the­sis be­tween episodes 19 and 23 of the TV se­ries, where Shinji would be per­suaded by Kaji to launch in Unit-01 and Rei would sac­ri­fice her­self in or­der to save Shin­ji; faced with this grief, Shin­ji’s heart would be un­able to bear it, and Unit-01 would go out of con­trol. The drafts up to num­ber five were writ­ten ac­cord­ing to this plan. [The first draft sto­ry­boards up to part C that were re­quested be­fore the pre­miere of “Pre­lude” were gen­er­ally based upon the drafts of the script writ­ten up to this point. ???]

— What was the im­pe­tus for the change?

An­no: The big thing was the com­ments made by Makki (Di­rec­tor Kazuya Tsu­ru­mak­i’s pet name). “For this, we can’t make films just by sum­ma­riz­ing the TV se­ries”. He also said, “I want Asuka to have a ‘film-like’ role. At this rate, she will just be mak­ing an ap­pear­ance—she pro­vides no drama vis-a-vis Shin­ji, the pro­tag­o­nist; she is not in­volved”. Fur­ther­more, “As a sto­ry, it’s not differ­ent enough from the orig­i­nal se­ries”—all these in suc­ces­sion. He fur­ther said, “Is­n’t a change as dras­tic as hav­ing Asuka pi­lot Unit-03 nec­es­sary?” I think, be­cause this was a ma­jor, fun­da­men­tal change, opin­ion was di­vided when I re­searched the views of a num­ber of staff mem­bers. (Ikki) Todor­oki, in par­tic­u­lar, was tremen­dously op­posed5. After think­ing about it, I ul­ti­mately adopted Tsu­ru­mak­i’s pro­posal and de­cided to change the pi­lot of Unit-03. That was the sixth draft of the script. It was fin­ished fol­low­ing the 2007 new year, on Jan­u­ary 8th. In this draft, the test pi­lot was sim­ply changed from Touji to Asuka, [and the rea­son for it—­Mari, the new pi­lot, is re­as­signed to NERV HQ from Eu­rope, and Asuka will be taken off of Unit-02, so she vol­un­teer­s—was re­ally just im­pro­vised. ?] The change of test pi­lot was forced into the draft, with the char­ac­ters and sit­u­a­tions left un­al­tered.

So, nat­u­ral­ly, I re­ceived, and agreed with, a pro­posal memo sent out by Tsu­ru­maki, which said, “We have to pro­vide Shin­ji, as well as the au­di­ence, with the same de­gree of shock and sense of loss as when Touji was lost in the TV se­ries. For that rea­son, by boldly por­tray­ing Asuka as a ‘good char­ac­ter’6, I hope to greatly con­vey that sense of loss”. Be­cause of that, I wanted to have Asuka pi­lot Unit-03 in or­der to do some­thing for Rei, and Shin­ji, and oth­er­s—­some­thing for other peo­ple. As Tsu­ru­maki put it, it’s like a “death flag” is raised7. As a re­sult, Asuka pi­lot­ing Unit-03 ended up be­ing made into the “peak” of her dra­ma. I changed var­i­ous parts of the script in ac­cor­dance with this. For ex­am­ple, Asuka’s im­pe­tus for pi­lot­ing Unit-03 would con­nect with the story of Rei [learn­ing to cook and?] prepar­ing a din­ner party for Shinji and Gen­dou. It seemed like these things, as well as Asuka’s char­ac­ter, di­a­logue, and so on, had grad­u­ally be­come so­lid­i­fied.

Aside from Mari, the course of the story and drama up to Part C was roughly the same in the eleventh draft of the script, dated March 11, 2007, as it would be in the film. How­ev­er, Part D still fol­lowed the course of the orig­i­nal se­ries. Up to the eleventh draft, the plan for what would be done with Unit-02 dur­ing the bat­tle with the tenth an­gel—­for ex­am­ple—had con­tin­u­ally changed. I went from a pro­posal from Tsu­ru­maki which sug­gested that, “as it puts pres­sure on pro­duc­tion, it would be bet­ter if Unit-02 did not ap­pear [dur­ing that scene]”, to “Mari will pi­lot Unit-02”, and at one point I even set­tled on a plan where “an un­con­scious Asuka will pi­lot Unit-02 us­ing the dummy sys­tem”. The eleventh draft [?] was writ­ten along those lines. The de­vel­op­ment fol­low­ing the de­feat of Unit-02 and Unit-00 just fol­lowed the course of the orig­i­nal se­ries, where Rei, who is con­sumed by or united with the an­gel, tries to take in Unit-01, and, when she no­tices what she is do­ing, self­-de­struc­ts. At this point, I tem­porar­ily stopped work­ing on the script. That was be­cause work on “Pre­lude” was fac­ing a great cri­sis, and I had to fo­cus upon it. If I’m not mis­tak­en, at one point I re­quested im­age boards and sto­ry­boards of the last bat­tle based upon this draft from Shin-chan Shinji Higuchi.

— When was the sus­pended work on the “Break” script re­sumed?

An­no: I was in a daze for a lit­tle while fol­low­ing the first “Pre­lude” screen­ing. From there I once again un­cov­ered var­i­ous is­sues, large and small. Gath­er­ing [the var­i­ous opin­ions ex­pressed at ?] the script re­treat held at the end of Oc­to­ber, as well as my own thoughts, I re­vised a large por­tion of the script, pro­duc­ing what you might call a new ver­sion. This twelfth draft was com­pleted on De­cem­ber 6, 2007. At this point, there was a de­vel­op­ment where, dur­ing the fight with the falling an­gel8, Mari and Asuka are present in the [U­nit-02] en­try plug to­geth­er. Then I wrote the en­tire script anew, rewrit­ing it with the feel­ing that it was an al­l-new work. Be­cause of that, the parts of the script pred­i­cated upon the ap­pro­pri­a­tion of ma­te­ri­als [genga etc.] from the orig­i­nal se­ries were largely elim­i­nat­ed.

In ad­di­tion, one more new, sig­nifi­cant change emerged at this time. Aban­don­ing the sce­nario where Rei self­-de­structs in the last scene to save Shin­ji, I de­cided on a course where Shinji saves Rei. This was due to (Toshimichi) Ot­suk­i’s opin­ion as a pro­ducer that, be­cause [the story of the sec­ond part would also lead to the third part ?], he wanted it to end hope­ful­ly, with a pos­i­tive feel­ing. Re­gard­ing this, opin­ions among the staff were again di­vid­ed. This time, it was Tsu­ru­maki who par­tic­u­larly op­posed, or re­sist­ed, this change. Makki said that he wanted to promi­nently fea­ture Rei III, who was barely present in the old work, in the third part [of Re­build], de­vel­op­ing her in depth. It seemed like this had been one of his mo­ti­va­tions for par­tic­i­pat­ing [in Re­build]. How­ev­er, in the end I de­cided on the sce­nario where Rei is saved, and he as­sent­ed, say­ing “If it’s all right with An­no-san…” I think I de­cided that way be­cause, with “Break”, I was search­ing for some­thing called “change”. As well, I thought this would lead to the next change. At this point I could gen­er­ally see what the roles of Asuka, Rei, and Mis­ato would be. The prob­lem was Mari.

Part 3


As a for­eign el­e­ment, Mari strug­gles to en­ter

— I heard that you had a very hard time with the cre­ation of Mar­i’s char­ac­ter.

An­no: Right. It was ex­tremely diffi­cult. Ever since I started the new films I had de­cided on this “one trick” where I would in­crease the count of fe­male pi­lots by one with a new char­ac­ter. I felt that there was a dan­ger where, if I did­n’t do this, I would end up re­peat­ing the same sto­ry, and be un­able to sig­nifi­cantly change things. I felt that, even if I had to force it, if I did­n’t throw a new Eva pi­lot as an ex­treme, for­eign el­e­ment into the films, then Eva would not sig­nifi­cantly change. At the start, I feel like I forcibly thrust her into the sto­ry. The early drafts were so er­ratic that, be­ing un­re­lated to the sto­ry, Mar­i’s very ex­is­tence seemed to have no ba­sis. Out­side of the pre-ti­tle se­quence, she prac­ti­cally did not ap­pear at all. But be­cause at the time I ex­pected that, if she made more than a cameo ap­pear­ance in the sec­ond part [2.0], I would be un­able to de­velop Asuka or Shinji or some­one else, I left things as they were. I fig­ured that I should de­velop the new char­ac­ter from the third part [3.0] on, where the story would com­pletely change. It would be easy to in­sert her there. Well, that was a thor­oughly naive out­look.

At any rate, when it came down to ac­tu­ally in­creas­ing her ap­pear­ances, I could­n’t fit her in at all. It just was­n’t pos­si­ble for her to ap­pear. The orig­i­nal Evan­ge­lion had been more rigidly made than I had thought. There was no real mar­gin for new el­e­ments to en­ter into the story or into the dra­ma. I cre­ated the orig­i­nal se­ries by se­lect­ing the best ways of do­ing things that I could think of at the time, so if I dam­aged one el­e­ment, other el­e­ments would be­come dam­aged as part of a chain re­ac­tion. At the end, I started to get less and less in­ter­ested in do­ing it.

This was diffi­cult to deal with. The work was more than ten years old, but still, I had cre­ated it my­self, so it was­n’t easy for me to dam­age. This is­n’t self­-con­grat­u­la­tion—I was forced to again rec­og­nize that the “flow” was very well con­struct­ed. The orig­i­nal Evan­ge­lion was en­tirely cre­ated from my un­em­bell­ished feel­ings and my im­pro­vised writ­ings, so it was not com­pleted ac­cord­ing to a the­o­ry. As a re­sult, I thought I would get other peo­ple, out­siders, to help me de­stroy it—T­su­ru­maki in par­tic­u­lar. In ad­di­tion, there’s parts of my­self that are differ­ent com­pared to that time. So, I tried to change [E­va]. It was a bat­tle with my so-called past self, my self eleven years ago. It took a great deal of in­ner strength.

— It’s a process where you might end up re­pu­di­at­ing your in­ner core, so I can imag­ine the pain in­volved. Prac­ti­cally speak­ing, how did you at­tempt to in­sert Mari into the sto­ry?

An­no: To be­gin with, I left [cer­tain things] to oth­ers. I tried to pro­pose as lit­tle of her im­age my­self as I could. I gave O-sada [Yoshiyuki Sadamo­to] and Makki a rough im­pres­sion of her set­tei: her out­ward de­sign was to be that of a Eng­lish pri­vate school girl, a bit “O-nee-san”-like, maybe with a love of an­i­mals as well, and so on. After that I left them to work things out; I felt like I would just check what they com­plet­ed. I think, since it had been de­cided that [the char­ac­ter] would ap­pear, the team­work on the char­ac­ter de­sign started at very early stage. I think Sadamoto strug­gled greatly [with Mari] for a while as well, but ar­rived in the di­rec­tion of “a meganekko, with long, straight hair”, and so forth, early on. After all, the rough de­sign was ready in time for the pre­view at the end of “Pre­lude”. He strug­gled with it again when the time came to gather and re­vise every­thing to pro­duce Mar­i’s set­tei im­ages, but I think the re­sult was very good, as you would ex­pect from O-sa­da.

How­ev­er, there were some diffi­cul­ties as her per­son­al­ity was­n’t com­ing to­geth­er. Things started with a process of elim­i­na­tion. There was al­ready a “nor­mal” char­ac­ter in Hikari, and “ec­cen­tric” char­ac­ters in Rei and Asu­ka. First off, [we] tried to take those per­son­al­ity char­ac­ter­is­tics and as­pects of ap­pear­ance that had not been yet been used in Eva as a start­ing point. She was made up of sim­ple el­e­ments; for ex­am­ple, “she wears glasses as an ac­ces­so­ry, which we had avoided us­ing up to this point be­cause they were hard to an­i­mate”. Yet if this were all, she would­n’t be a new char­ac­ter, only a “not” char­ac­ter—what­ever Rei, Asuka, etc., weren’t. The po­si­tions of the char­ac­ters in the orig­i­nal work were also ex­tremely rigidly con­struct­ed. If Mari were to be in­serted care­lessly the dra­ma, the sto­ry, and the bal­ance of the whole would com­pletely fall apart. Al­though I was aim­ing for change, if it was only differ­ent from the orig­i­nal work, in the end it would be noth­ing but a “counter” to what had come be­fore…

— That’s surely the case, as be­ing a “counter” means that it be­comes a premise in which the same sense of val­ues is in­cor­po­rat­ed.

An­no: Right. Well, it’s diffi­cult. By the draft of Feb­ru­ary 15 2008, draft 13a, I had the idea that “Mar­i’s ap­pear­ances fol­low­ing the pre-ti­tle se­quence will come soon­er, be more nu­mer­ous, and be more im­pres­sive. To that end, Mari will take charge of the bat­tle­field dur­ing the fight against the falling an­gel, rid­ing with Asuka, who hates the sit­u­a­tion, in the en­try plug [of Unit-02]”. Then Mari cov­ers [庇う] for Asuka, but a wound she re­ceived dur­ing the pre-ti­tle se­quence grows worse, so she is hos­pi­tal­ized un­til she reap­pears again in the last scene. That was the plan, but it did­n’t work out.9 It seemed ar­ti­fi­cial, and did­n’t fit. On the other hand, if Mari con­tin­ued to ap­pear, scenes which re­lated Mari to Shinji would be­come nec­es­sary, and be­cause of that Asuka’s pres­ence would be­come too far re­duced for the scene where she pi­lots Unit-03 to be al­lowed to re­main. On top of that, scenes be­tween Mari and Shinji where I felt “this is right” were not com­ing eas­ily to me. Fur­ther­more, as the screen­play had no­body know­ing Mari, the con­ver­sa­tions did not go any­where. So, I made her a se­nior school­mate of Asuka’s from Eu­rope, but then this weak­ened the sense of Asuka’s iso­la­tion, so that was again no good. At that point the bal­ance [of Eva] was com­ing apart like a tower made of toy blocks.

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=463004#463004 part 3 con­tin­ued

With all those var­i­ous draw­backs and time run­ning out, we to­tally cut the ap­pear­ance of Mari in Part B when we worked on the sto­ry­boards in­stead of do­ing it in scripts. In the sto­ry­boards, I think there is about one cut re­mained that had the frame with Mari be­hind Asuka on Unit-02 and with a big X-mark in­side. The saku-uchi [team dis­cus­sion and work­ing on the draw­ing] of that scene was done at an early stage, so there was no more time to do re-think for it. But with this re­vised script the parts ex­cept Mar­i’s, up to Part C, be­came rel­a­tively com­plete.

Well, still there were also many script re­vi­sions pil­ing up con­cern­ing small changes in di­a­logues or switch­ing the scene or­der in places like the sec­tion with Touji/Kensuke and Shinji or the SEELE scene. Things like the story of Asuka’s re­la­tion­ship with her moth­er, or the some­what “adult” episodes be­tween Mis­ato and Ka­ji, were re­vised or elim­i­nated at the stage when the sto­ry­boards were be­ing brought to­geth­er. With the “flow” be­ing brought to­geth­er, we be­came un­able to in­cor­po­rate parts that did­n’t in­volve Shin­ji. I had also wanted to in­cor­po­rate as much as I could an “adult vivid­ness”, but this time I de­cided to take the risk of leav­ing it out. I de­cided to make it an eas­ily com­pre­hen­si­ble view of world build­ing that put ju­nior high stu­dents at the cen­ter.

— After that much ar­rang­ing and get­ting down to what was es­sen­tial, Mari and Part D still re­mained [to be dealt with], right?

An­no: Right. The four­teenth draft, dated Jan­u­ary 14th 2008, was sep­a­rate from what came be­fore, be­gin­ning from Part D. At that point it was fixed that Mari would pi­lot Unit-02. How­ev­er, Mis­ato and Shin­ji’s sep­a­ra­tion, what the course of ac­tion would be after the berserk of Unit-02 that Mari pi­lot­ed, what hap­pens after the an­gel con­sumes Unit-00—these sorts of things were a long way from be­ing set­tled. Mar­i’s ap­pear­ances, as well—in draft 13b, dated May 23rd, there was a scene where she had tea with Shinji on the roof of the school. For Part D, I fo­cused on con­tin­u­ally pro­duc­ing re­vi­sions from May to about Sep­tem­ber. There are 13 drafts just in the data that still re­mains. Re­al­ly, it was like all sorts of ideas were com­ing up and then dis­ap­pear­ing.

The first story plan was dated Au­gust 3rd, 2006, so the script went through about two years and five months of re­peated twists and turns in to­tal. Any­way, I think I de­vised new ideas every day in or­der to make things in­ter­est­ing.

Part 4

“[We] per­sisted in chang­ing Mar­i’s ap­pear­ances up un­til the very last minute”

— It seems like the changes to the script con­tin­ued even though the date of the film’s re­lease was get­ting close.

An­no: Yeah. Tsu­ru­maki, who was in charge of the sto­ry­boards plus the di­rec­tor of Part D, per­se­vered un­til the very end. Es­pe­cially in re­gards to Mari. Draft 15.2, dated Sep­tem­ber 25, was at one point sent to be sto­ry­board­ed, but when it came time for Tsu­ru­maki to do it, there were things in the script that, no mat­ter what, he was not con­vinced about. [With these points] un­set­tled, a memo emerged from him con­cern­ing them. He said that if these [prob­lems] were not re­solved, he could­n’t draw the sto­ry­boards. So, dur­ing the stu­dio’s new year’s hol­i­day, we se­questered our­selves at my house and at a ho­tel in Hakone, and we did noth­ing but think of ideas in or­der to clear up the diffi­cul­ties. We were de­lighted when we came up with them. The script put to­gether as the so­lu­tion to these diffi­cul­ties, draft 16.2, turned out to be the fi­nal draft. This was the part stretch­ing from the con­ver­sa­tion in the bomb shel­ter be­tween Shinji and Mari in the heav­ily dam­aged Unit-02 to the Ka­woru epi­logue. That was Jan­u­ary 18th, 2009, so it was a sit­u­a­tion where we were al­most out of time on the pro­duc­tion sched­ule, and did­n’t know if the im­ages [for the film] would be fin­ished in time for the pre­miere. We sto­ry­boarded after that, so we per­sisted in re­vis­ing things to the point of real dan­ger.

— You had half a year un­til the pre­miere. It would seem that, even if you had started the afureko [voice record­ing] after the new year, a por­tion of the scenes would still not have been in a con­di­tion suit­able for record­ing. That in­cludes the parts in­volv­ing Mari and Shin­ji, right?

An­no: Mari and Shin­ji’s en­counter was fi­nally sto­ry­boarded on Feb­ru­ary 28th, 2009. At the stage when Makki sto­ry­boarded the script [the scene] was in a re­vised form with ad­di­tional ideas. Tsu­ru­maki was de­ter­mined to get Mari to ar­rive from the sky. I feel he just kept at it un­til an idea emerged that cleared [the way for] that.

But re­al­ly, Mar­i’s en­counter with Shin­ji, the scene where she re-e­merges, was cre­ated by re­peated trial and er­ror; I for­get how many times I rewrote it. That scene, as well, was ini­tially in­tended to be placed after Unit-02 was sealed away, but when we watched the rushes through, it did­n’t flow prop­er­ly. In edit­ing, we tried in­sert­ing it at var­i­ous points, and in the end it was de­cided that the scene would be ad­vanced to an ear­lier point in Part B. The con­nec­tion where [Sh­in­ji’s] S-Dat falls on the roof and be­gins act­ing up was re­ally a chance re­sult.

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=464064#464064 Part 4 [Con­tin­ued]

— In ad­di­tion, there were scenes that just fea­tured Mari.

An­no: Con­cern­ing Mari, at the very last min­ute, dur­ing edit­ing, the opin­ion was ex­pressed—­maybe by O-Sada—that Mari does not ap­pear in enough sce­nes, that we for­get her along the way. Well, I think he felt this way be­cause, as a re­sult of mov­ing the roof scene to a po­si­tion ear­lier than was orig­i­nally planned, there was a gap un­til her ap­pear­ance in Part D. So, we de­cided to think of ad­di­tional scenes in the way of con­tent we could pro­duce from that point on. Be­cause afureko was al­ready com­plete, we thought of var­i­ous [pos­si­bil­i­ties] with­out [us­ing] di­a­logue, mak­ing use of differ­ent takes from other [unused] cuts; dig­ging up rough lay­outs, in­sert­ing them in edit­ing, and tak­ing a look at them; and so on. We de­clared [op­tions] to be use­less a num­ber of times, and in the end we de­cided on in­sert­ing a scene that used genga from the 2.0 pre­view trailer after [a shot of] Tou­ji. Oh my, con­cern­ing Mari we re­ally were at a loss and strug­gled till the very very end. I think for this kind of sit­u­a­tion [it would be great] if I had the abil­ity to sud­denly hit upon some­thing. I wish I had the power to quickly come up with ideas that could clear the chal­lenges.

— In what way do you think Mar­i’s char­ac­ter was es­tab­lished in the film as a re­sult of those diffi­cul­ties?

An­no: I think she be­came a good char­ac­ter who for all her short ap­pear­ance was im­pres­sive. This was again due to Tsu­ru­mak­i’s per­sis­tence. In any case, we de­picted her with great care in or­der to leave an im­pres­sion. I wanted Mari to be an out­sider within my­self as well as an alien pres­ence in the world of Eva. Be­cause of that, I en­trusted a sig­nifi­cant po­tion [of the work con­cern­ing her] to Mak­ki. If I had taken too much ini­tia­tive, there was a risk that she might be­come [just like] the al­ready ex­ist­ing char­ac­ters. I think the re­sult was very good, and I’m pleased with it, be­cause the char­ac­ter con­tains some­thing of the feel­ing of an alien pres­ence. The im­age of her voice was also not de­cided by me, and the sug­ges­tion of (Maaya) Sakamo­to-san, if I re­call cor­rect­ly, was, in ad­di­tion, made by O-Sa­da. I guess Makki also ap­proved [of that sug­ges­tion] at the time. I think I said some­thing then, but at the end I said some­thing like “I think it’s fine”.

That was at the time of a drink­ing party at the stu­dio. Ot­suk­i-san, who had grown im­pa­tient with the fact that, de­spite be­ing close to the afureko pe­ri­od, the cast­ing was still un­de­cided with­out me hav­ing made any sug­ges­tions, was ask­ing staff mem­bers then and there which seiyuu would be good for the new char­ac­ter, and Sakamo­to-san’s name was brought up. The re­sponse of the sur­round­ing staff mem­bers was fa­vor­able. So, Ot­suk­i-san said, “An­no-san, Sakamo­to-san is fine; we’ll choose her. To­mor­row, we’ll talk at the office”. “Yeah, that’s fine”, I said. [So far] I had only said hello to her in some events, but I thought that [the de­ci­sion] was some­thing good. She also per­formed well in Top 2 (), and as it was a rec­om­men­da­tion from O-Sada and Makki, I thought there would be no prob­lems. Well, later when I went to drink with var­i­ous peo­ple, I was told by of , “Anno took our Maaya with­out ask­ing us blah blah” (laugh)

— What was the re­sult like, [us­ing] Maaya-san?

An­no: Sakamo­to-san was ex­tremely good. She per­formed as part of a reg­u­lar team that had al­ready been formed more than ten years ago with­out hes­i­ta­tion. Well, she was good. When I heard her first test I was con­vinced that it would work. Her song was ex­cel­lent as well.

— Was it your idea that she sing that, the “365-step march”?

An­no: That was me. It was a song from the I heard when I was a child. I had her sing it as I wanted to bring out a feel­ing of ease de­spite it be­ing her first cam­paign. In ad­di­tion, want­ing to bring out a ‘Showa-era old man’ feel from her char­ac­ter, I also put in ac­tions like her say­ing “Dokkoisho” when she stands up, or her un­con­sciously strik­ing her palm with her fist when she says “Yoshi. So da”.10 To put it in terms of cook­ing, that was just about the fi­nal sea­son­ing.

— Con­cern­ing Mar­i’s nam­ing, I be­lieve [the name] came from An­no-san, but what was the source for it?

An­no: is the name of an Eng­lish air­craft car­ri­er. “Mak­i­nami” comes, not from the for­mer Im­pe­r­ial Navy, but from the Japan Mar­itime Self­-De­fense Force’s Ayanami class of de­stroy­ers [escort ship­s]. “Shik­i­nami” is the same. I don’t know whether or not I will bring this out in the main work, but in the new films, I al­tered the set­tei of the Eva pi­lots com­pared to the orig­i­nal. Be­cause of this, Asuka[’s name] changed as well, from So­ryu to Shik­i­na­mi. As for the name “Mari”, I orig­i­nally got the name “Mariko” from a char­ac­ter who ap­peared in my wife’s () man­ga, but for var­i­ous rea­sons it was changed to “Mari”. Well, Buc­chan [Yu­taka Izubuchi] was also prob­a­bly pleased with the change (laugh­s).

— The Mari Izubuchi-san en­joys, would that be ’s Mari Saku­ra­no?

An­no: Yeah. Around the end of the orig­i­nal Eva, I was asked by Buc­chan if Asuka and Rei[’s names came from] Rei Asuka of Brave Raideen. I was some­what un­fa­mil­iar with Raideen, and un­think­ingly re­sponded with the ques­tion, “Was there such a char­ac­ter?”, upon which I was em­phat­i­cally told, “Yes, there was!!” Un­til I was told that, I had­n’t no­ticed it. I had­n’t been con­scious of it at all. Part-way through [pro­duc­tion] I thought about chang­ing [Mar­i’s name] to Chizuru11; if I had done that I think it would have pleased Sho-chan (Shoji Kawamor­i’s pet name). There was also my wife’s char­ac­ter; and after all hap­pened I fi­nally had a chance to save Buc­cha­n’s face by mak­ing a link with Raideen; so after all I went with Mari (laugh)

— That’s a truly beau­ti­ful friend­ship.

An­no: It is, is­n’t it (laugh­s). By the way, I pre­fer the voice of Raideen’s Mari in the first half of the show. Hi­romi Oka—she was good, was­n’t she?12

Part 5


The var­i­ous changes made to the main char­ac­ters were…

— What was the rea­son for chang­ing Asuka’s name to Shik­i­nami?

An­no: I men­tioned this be­fore, but, be­cause I changed the set­tei re­lat­ing to the Eva pi­lots, in or­der to pro­vide con­sis­tency in ac­cor­dance with that I thought it was best to change the name. I also thought that the change in name of a main char­ac­ter would en­able view­ers from the pre­vi­ous work to re­ceive the mes­sage, “This time is differ­ent, a new feel­ing”. Of course I felt un­com­fort­able [about it], and there are things that I think are bet­ter in the orig­i­nal, but here I feel like I [had to] risk chang­ing things. [?] As I thought that fans from the orig­i­nal work would prob­a­bly not ex­pect changes to the ex­tent that Asuka’s name would be changed, I won­dered if the sense that, “Ah, this is differ­ent than be­fore” could be con­veyed in a shock­ing and easy-to-un­der­stand way; and I won­dered if it might be good as a topic [for con­ver­sa­tion] as well.

— In­deed, when ar­ti­cles were pub­lished in the anime mag­a­zines on the changed de­sign of Unit-02, I won­dered what was go­ing on, not see­ing much of a re­spon­se, but as soon as Asuka’s name change was an­nounced there was an enor­mous re­ac­tion.

An­no: I would imag­ine so, as the ma­jor­ity of the fans are fo­cused on the char­ac­ters rather than the mecha.

I also had a lot of diffi­cul­ties cre­at­ing Asuka’s char­ac­ter this time. For the de­sign it­self, it was okay to make not much more than mi­nor changes to her plug­suit, but it was hard es­tab­lish­ing her per­son­al­ity and per­sonal his­tory for the new films. Well, it was diffi­cult.

— It’s not just Mari and Asuka, who par­tic­i­pate [in the new films] from “Break” on­wards. It was im­pres­sive to see Rei dis­play sig­nifi­cant changes as well. In par­tic­u­lar, there is the fact that she pre­pares a meal, or the shock of her say­ing “poka-poka”. Con­cern­ing changes made to the reg­u­lar char­ac­ters as well, if there were rea­sons [for this], please in­form us of what they were.

An­no: With Rei, for some rea­son, i just feel “it hap­pened like that” nat­u­ral­ly. I never re­mem­ber why it hap­pened that way. Re­gard­ing Rei’s din­ner party for Shinji and Gen­do, that was orig­i­nally a plot I had thought of us­ing for episode 4 of the TV se­ries. I re­mem­bered it and thought I would in­clude it this time. I have a mem­ory of it be­ing, at that time, some­thing like Shin­ji’s birth­day par­ty. I think I re­placed that with the din­ner party this time. So, the episode where Rei pre­pares a meal was al­ready in the first draft of the script. The di­a­logue where Rei says, “…it’s a se­cret. I’ll tell you when I get a lit­tle bet­ter [at it]” was in­cluded in the sec­ond draft, dated Sep­tem­ber 9th, 2006. That’s the sec­ond time that Rei smiles at Shin­ji. The Rei of “Break” was es­tab­lished from this point on. Since I hit upon that di­a­logue, I feel like Rei spon­ta­neously be­came a char­ac­ter whose emo­tions leak a lit­tle bit into her out­ward ap­pear­ance. As far as Rei is con­cerned, [I am] un­con­scious. I don’t con­trol any­thing. With “poka-poka”, as well, I felt like she said it of her own vo­li­tion be­fore I was even aware of it.

It’s also the same with Shin­ji. In my mind he is so much a mat­ter of course that, de­spite him be­ing the pro­tag­o­nist, I often for­get that he ex­ists.

As for Mis­ato, in the new films, I made her po­si­tion as a sec­ondary pro­tag­o­nist as op­posed to Shinji clear. Shin­ji, as well as Rei, as well as Mis­ato, as well as Asuka—as they ex­press their emo­tions within the lim­ited space of a film, to a cer­tain ex­tent they will act in ac­cor­dance with given roles. I feel that, within the de­vel­op­ment of the sto­ry, things that I have to do have al­ready been de­ter­mined. If this was TV, even I went on var­i­ous tan­gents I would still have room to re­cov­er, so [the char­ac­ters] would act as I pleased. [???] In a film, I can’t do any­thing about this.

Nev­er­the­less, I had the feel­ing that the char­ac­ters were not sim­ply ex­ten­sions of the old work, but were new char­ac­ters as a re­sult. Al­though they were char­ac­ters who al­ready ex­isted in­side of me for over four­teen years, I feel like they were still chang­ing. Asuka in par­tic­u­lar changed from her [o­rig­i­nal] char­ac­ter set­tei.

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=473270#473270 Part 5 [Sec­ond Seg­men­t]:

— With Asuka’s re­la­tion­ship to Kaji also changed, I felt some­thing new [about her].

An­no: Yeah. I com­pletely cut it from the film. The main rea­son was that, in a film, there is sim­ply not enough room to de­pict some­thing like Kaji and Asuka’s sto­ry. Even if we had put just a lit­tle [of that] in, then she would not have worked as a char­ac­ter, and it would in­evitably have been a nu­ance that only those who knew the orig­i­nal se­ries would un­der­stand. So I com­pletely cut that [re­la­tion­ship], and in­stead de­cided to have Kaji be close to Mari. That de­ci­sion was made be­cause of the fact that, among the main char­ac­ters who had ap­peared up to this point, there were none who knew Mari, and this was caus­ing me var­i­ous diffi­cul­ties in writ­ing. That be­ing the case, I fig­ured that Kaji was the most suit­able. He was, like Mari, a char­ac­ter who ap­pears from “Break” on­wards. He’s some­one who seems to know var­i­ous se­crets, and to have var­i­ous con­nec­tions.

— I feel like you killed two birds with one stone there, and I had the im­pres­sion that that also had a big im­pact to Asuka’s in­ci­dent with Unit 03.

An­no: Yeah. As [part of the] dra­ma, I wanted to in­crease Asuka’s de­gree of iso­la­tion even more than in the orig­i­nal work. Be­cause, in the se­ries, the to­tal amount of time avail­able is sig­nifi­cant, and I was able to play around with her por­tray­al, it be­came “Asuka is a girl who has the man she longs for near­by, and who, on the sur­face, is skilled at so­cial re­la­tions”. In a film like this, be­cause the time avail­able is short, and the char­ac­ters will be a mess if you can­not pull them to­gether com­pact­ly, I sim­ply iso­lated her from her sur­round­ings, so it’s as though she does­n’t know any­one ex­cept for Mis­ato. I thought her sub­se­quent change of heart would also be eas­ier to un­der­stand if I had her start with no friends. Be­cause of that, I sep­a­rated her from Kaji as well. If I had­n’t, the feel­ing that she had come [to Japan] alone would have be­come di­lut­ed. In ac­cor­dance with this, I kept her con­tact with oth­ers be­sides Mis­ato and Shinji slight, and I also kept her con­ver­sa­tions with Hikari rel­a­tively short in the [film’s] sec­ond half.

In any case for movies if one film lasts around 2 hours, I think big­ger ex­tents of change are bet­ter for con­vey­ing [mes­sages] to the au­di­ence. I set the Unit-03 in­ci­dent as the cli­max for Asuka, and with her emo­tional peak be­ing the mo­ment right be­fore she dis­ap­peared from the stage I wanted to make the gap be­tween this and [the part] after her dis­ap­pear­ance as big as pos­si­ble. Start­ing form the falling an­gel bat­tle which she could not deal with by her­self, she got lib­er­ated lit­tle by lit­tle, and at last she laid bare her feel­ings for the first time to other peo­ple which was Mis­ato. But, well, it was hard work to think up and bring about var­i­ous sto­ries in or­der to liven things up here. [She is] not the pro­tag­o­nist, and then there is also the weight­ing bal­ance. That said, Part C is al­most a story with Asuka as cen­ter.

Be­cause Rei’s din­ner party be­came the hinge for the rest of Part C, the main char­ac­ter, Shin­ji, had a hard time mak­ing ap­pear­ances in the sto­ry. Be­cause there are many “wait­ing” sit­u­a­tions rather than a feel­ing of ac­tiv­i­ty, you just for­get about him. Watch­ing the rushes that were made along the way, Shin­ji’s ap­pear­ances were too few, or should I say that he did­n’t ap­pear for too long a pe­riod of time. So, in or­der that the au­di­ence would not for­get [him], the scene where he lis­tens to the ra­dio while study­ing was after­wards added. De­spite that, as far as Shin­ji’s story [in Part C] goes, it is noth­ing but “look­ing for­ward to Rei’s din­ner party”, so when Shinji fi­nally ap­pears again, [the added ap­pear­ance] only em­pha­sizes that.

Part 6


De­vices used and changes made in or­der to fit [the film] into a lim­ited length [of time]

— It seems that the changes in the char­ac­ters and story were not so much made ac­cord­ing to a plan as de­cided in ac­cor­dance with var­i­ous “bal­ances”.

An­no: It’s not just “Break”; it’s like that for all my works. I all of a sud­den no­ticed things when I read the script or the sto­ry­boards. I no­ticed a va­ri­ety of things, large and small, with sur­prise when I watched the rush­es. So, I hur­riedly went to deal with these var­i­ous things. It was a cy­cle of rep­e­ti­tion. It was re­ally cre­ation by trial and er­ror. Be­cause this caused my staff trou­bles, I wish I had more of the ca­pac­ity to set­tle every­thing at once in an in­ter­est­ing way. Nev­er­the­less, be­cause “Break” had many char­ac­ters and there were many se­quences that it had to in­cor­po­rate, I could­n’t see the over­all flow and bal­ance if I did­n’t ac­tu­ally ex­pe­ri­ence it first­hand.

— [The film] had to in­cor­po­rate an ex­tra­or­di­nary num­ber of things. That was nat­u­rally a great chal­lenge this time around.

An­no: That’s be­cause, if you put it in terms of the TV se­ries, [the film goes] from episode seven to about episode twen­ty-three. That’s a length of about eigh­teen episodes of twen­ty-two min­utes and thirty sec­onds. When it comes to show­ing that in a lit­tle less than two hours, [you can’t do it] if you don’t cut off a siz­able amount.

— Was that prob­lem of what to keep and what to re­move a ma­jor chal­lenge start­ing from the sce­nario stage?

An­no: I knew from the start that there was ab­solutely no mar­gin to de­velop var­i­ous sce­nes, but for some rea­son, dur­ing the ini­tial stages, it was hard for me to rec­og­nize that, and I ended up in­sert­ing var­i­ous things. First, I served up a full plate, and had the work after­wards of cut­ting things down: “I won’t put this in, I won’t put that in”. Es­pe­cially as con­cerns the char­ac­ters, there was even a pe­riod where I tried in a num­ber of ways to in­crease the num­ber of scenes de­pict­ing them. Asuka’s scenes also ended up in­creas­ing, and when I fi­nally no­ticed I was faced with the diffi­culty that she now seemed to be the main char­ac­ter.

— There’s an in­vi­o­lable rule that [an­other char­ac­ter] can’t be more promi­nent than Shin­ji.

An­no: In the end, he is the main char­ac­ter. But, well, from a com­po­si­tional point of view, if we have Shinji in­volved in even the side sto­ries, well, [I thought] that could be done with­out prob­lem.

— In the [fin­ished] film as a whole, Shinji clearly stands out as the main char­ac­ter.

An­no: That was the re­sult of an ac­cu­mu­la­tion of a va­ri­ety of great efforts. As we were talk­ing about, in case it was poorly done, the im­pli­ca­tion could be the risk that [Sh­in­ji] might just ap­pear abruptly only at the end.

— Asuka also had a “ro­man­tic com­edy”-like part: the de­vel­op­ment where she cooks a meal, and so on.

An­no: With that, for some rea­son or other I wanted to de­vel­op, in an easy-to-un­der­stand way, a “ju­nior high school-like” part.

— The heavy em­pha­sis on “hav­ing a meal” was also strik­ing, but was there some­thing in­ten­tional in that?

An­no: I thought that I would at­tempt to adopt a slight fix­a­tion with the idea of “eat­ing”. The in­flu­ence of my wife is sig­nifi­cant. Ow­ing to her, I have changed a lit­tle bit. So, I tried in­creas­ing the em­pha­sis on meals. Up un­til the 13th draft of the script I had also in­serted a scene where, after the bat­tle with the falling an­gel, Mis­ato in­vites Ka­ji, Rit­suko, and the three op­er­a­tors to go to a Ra­men shop, and they sit around Asuka and have a meal to­geth­er. Kaji tells Shin­ji, who has both of his arms ban­daged, “No Prob­lem. Here, open up–”13. Asuka re­luc­tantly feeds ra­men to Mari, and, in re­sponse to Mis­ato’s words, “Asuka, help­ing an­other per­son prob­a­bly feels pretty good”, says, “It’s just ir­ri­tat­ing”. But, in the end I de­cided to cut it. Be­cause I wanted to fo­cus qui­etly on Asuka and Shin­ji’s re­ac­tions, and be­cause it’s hard to an­i­mate a meal scene, I de­cided not to do it. It was­n’t in draft 13a of the script.

Be­cause this time the cli­max was based on episode 19 of the TV se­ries, the im­age where Eva con­sumes an an­gel—well, the re­sult was the op­po­site [of that], but, I won­dered if I should fea­ture the act of “con­sum­ing prey”, in­clud­ing that sort of im­age.

— [The mo­tif of] “Food” has been placed through­out the film. Hav­ing a meal to­gether with friends, buy­ing and eat­ing ice can­dies, eat­ing a bento at school, mak­ing a meal [for some­one] and sud­denly stop­ping… This seems to me to be tied into these “Break”-type changes, where [you feel], “this is a new im­pres­sion al­though it’s the same Eva”.

An­no: I think, con­cern­ing that, that it prob­a­bly has less to do with scriptwrit­ing con­sid­er­a­tions than with what was dis­cussed pre­vi­ous­ly, my per­sonal changes. I fi­nally tried to take an in­ter­est in “eat­ing”, and I think that’s some­thing like a man­i­fes­ta­tion of that14. For my­self, I won­dered what sort of thing “eat­ing” was sup­posed to be. I my­self have many likes and dis­likes, and since child­hood I was not so at­tached to the idea of “eat­ing”, so I wanted to try to do some re­think on that area. Be­cause of that, while I con­nected the de­pic­tions to form the story flow, I in­ten­tion­ally cen­ter it on the act of “eat­ing”.

The in­crease in the amount of car scenes is the same; it’s be­cause I started dri­ving. From the time I got my li­cense right after I left high school up un­til my mar­riage, I have prac­ti­cally been a “pa­per dri­ver”.15 The streets of Tokyo are fright­en­ing. I started dri­ving eight years ago, and be­came in­ter­ested in cars for the first time. I started to re­mem­ber the makes and mod­els of cars, and I be­gan be­ing able to hold con­ver­sa­tions with Sadamoto and Tsu­ru­maki about cars. So, this time, I wanted to try to put as much of those parts of me that had­n’t ex­isted at the time of the old se­ries or twelve years ago into [the film] as I could. Things like hav­ing an in­ter­est in eat­ing meals, or rid­ing cars, or be­ing in Ka­makura with my wife, or, at a so­cial lev­el, be­ing mar­ried, and also work­ing at my own new pro­duc­tion stu­dio. It’s a re­ac­tion to those parts. Un­less I in­ten­tion­ally im­bued [the film] with those parts of me that did­n’t ex­ist twelve years ago, then I would feel like things had­n’t changed after all.

I thought it would be good if the­se, if those “feel­ings” that weren’t pre­vi­ously present would take hold in the film. And for new in­ter­est­ing points that I could not fill in my­self, I in­tended on quickly in­sert­ing new el­e­ments from the staff like Tsu­ru­maki or Masayuki to get [the whole thing] into chaos…

Part 7

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=492149#492149 First seg­ment

“The re­la­tion­ship be­tween Eva and Hideaki An­no’s au­thor­ship16

— But the fi­nal de­ci­sion is made by An­no-san. Tsu­ru­mak­i-san’s opin­ion was that this is the rea­son that [the work] be­comes “Eva.”

An­no: Be­fore that [de­ci­sion] I ask my as­sis­tant Todor­oki what he thinks about it. Todor­oki’s view­point, both as a fan and as a cre­ator, is ex­tremely ac­cu­rate, so I’m very grate­ful for his ad­vice. I think, if I’m aim­ing at en­ter­tain­ment, it’s no good if only I find it in­ter­est­ing. I also have to aim at the great­est hap­pi­ness of the great­est num­ber. I think it’s good if, to the best of my abil­i­ty, I align my feel­ings about what is in­ter­est­ing with that.

Well, I in­sert my in­di­vid­ual likes and pref­er­ences into the parts that are play­ful and not that im­por­tant. That way it con­nects to [one’s] “fetishism”, and is good, I think, be­cause it brings out “fla­vor” and “thick­ness” in the work. It’s not re­ally the case that I’m forcibly [bend­ing it to my whim­s]. At any rate, the things I am fix­ated on are there as well, but of course that’s be­cause I wanted to place im­por­tance, not on en­vi­sion­ing the work from the be­gin­ning, but on the work some­how end­ing up a cer­tain way with­out my in­tend­ing it to, due to the course of the ac­tual sit­u­a­tion or to the un­con­scious, or to the mood. Well, it means al­ways “fa­vor­ing the in­ter­est­ing di­rec­tion.” Eva in par­tic­u­lar is cre­ated in this flex­i­ble man­ner.

— Just be­cause it’s “Eva”, the vast ma­jor­ity of peo­ple in so­ci­ety still be­lieve that [the films are] a prod­uct of An­no-san’s au­thor­ship. This ac­count must have been given many times.

An­no: It de­pends on the de­fi­n­i­tion of au­thor­ship, but I don’t re­ally feel that’s the case. That’s be­cause, in my sit­u­a­tion, rather than hav­ing a firm blue­print at the out­set and say­ing, “as an au­thor, I want to de­pict this theme”, I cre­ate while every day blindly try­ing to work out what I can do to make things in­ter­est­ing. It’s not a way of do­ing things where I start with the fin­ished form and cre­ate [the work] aim­ing at that. Un­til the first screen­ing I don’t know how it will end up; I do noth­ing but con­stantly change things in or­der to make it in­ter­est­ing. I do that up un­til the very last minute of the sched­ule. It’s like this every time. Well, it’s a lot of trou­ble for the staff.

It’s some­thing like, “the prin­ci­ple of the su­premacy of the work”, or that I want to place more im­por­tance on what will be of ben­e­fit to the work than on what I want to do per­son­al­ly. I think that’s what’s im­por­tant. Well, I’m not con­cerned about my au­thor­ship and so on. I feel, more than any­thing, if the work is in­ter­est­ing, if it be­comes more in­ter­est­ing, that’s good. I just have the re­spon­si­bil­ity of ul­ti­mately choos­ing, in ac­cor­dance with what is pos­si­ble to com­plete on time, what seems like it will end up be­ing the most in­ter­est­ing idea or way at a given point in time.

I’m able to amuse and en­ter­tain the cus­tomers who pay to see [what I make]. If I put some­thing in which makes them feel un­pleas­ant, that’s also done with their in­ter­ests in mind. Com­mer­cial films are both works [of art] and prod­ucts. You’re cre­at­ing for the peo­ple who watch them. I’ve al­ways thought our job was [a part of] the ser­vice in­dus­try.

— Al­though I felt that try­ing to treat An­no-san as an au­thor was out of place with an eval­u­a­tion of “Break”, I was some­how sat­is­fied by what you said just now. [??]

An­no: Be­cause, for Eva, I’m at the core of the ac­tual work, writ­ing the orig­i­nal sce­nario and the scripts, I think that some­thing like my au­thor­ship will leak out or seep through no mat­ter what, but I feel that much is just right. Un­like manga or nov­els, you cre­ate as a group, which is some­thing I love about film work. Of course, there is also a method of cre­at­ing which says, “the pur­pose of the staff is to put the vi­sion of the di­rec­tor onto film with­out the slight­est de­vi­a­tion”. Anime in par­tic­u­lar points in this di­rec­tion, since, as a mat­ter of effi­cien­cy, it’s well suited to the re­al­iza­tion of a vi­sion. For peo­ple who want to cre­ate an im­age along the lines of their vi­sions, this is the rec­om­mended [form of] vi­sual ex­pres­sion. But, if [anime is] well suited to re­al­ize a long-pre­pared vi­sion, I think the work will end up be­ing more in­ter­est­ing if, as far as pos­si­ble, one were to com­bine the vi­sions of var­i­ous staff mem­bers, rather than just es­tab­lish­ing a sin­gle vi­sion. I think, if the work has a heart or a core, then it’s bet­ter if the im­age is en­tirely [thrown in­to] chaos. Rather than a whole with a sense of uni­ty, I pre­fer that it be lack­ing in some re­spects. I think that hu­man be­ings and hu­man so­ci­ety are them­selves like this, and that if the work too is com­posed of a va­ri­ety of things, it will be more real for the au­di­ence, or carry a greater sense of re­al­i­ty. So, a cos­mos forms in the midst of com­plete chaos, ac­cord­ing to the in­ten­tion of the di­rec­tor, or else nat­u­ral­ly. That’s good. That’s how Eva is cre­at­ed. Over and over again—it’s ex­tremely diffi­cult.

Part 8


New scenes nec­es­sary in or­der to bring Shinji to­wards adult­hood

— Dur­ing voice record­ing, two ver­sions of sce­nes, for ex­am­ple the ca­ble car [i.e. the NERV tram] scene, were record­ed. Was this [a kind of] in­sur­ance based on the as­sump­tion that there would be cuts?

An­no: It was among other things [a kind of] in­sur­ance, but in the end [that scene] was cut. Work [on that scene] pro­gressed to the lay­out stage, but when I watched the rushes through, the only in­for­ma­tion there was Asuka play­ing a game by her­self, Kaji ap­pear­ing and [the film] com­mu­ni­cat­ing to the au­di­ence that he knows Mis­ato, and the meet­ing be­tween Shinji and Ka­ji. I thought the amount of es­sen­tial in­for­ma­tion was slight, con­sid­er­ing just how much was be­ing crammed into a sin­gle se­quence. That was the only pur­pose of the scene. This was a mis­take of the script. Tsu­ru­maki said, “this scene makes no sense.” Be­cause it was sto­ry­boarded from an early ver­sion of the script, it was still forcibly in­clud­ing the im­age [of the meet­ing] from episode 8 of the TV se­ries. I thought it was­n’t very good to in­clude Mis­ato there. How­ev­er, when that scene was cut, Shinji and his friends ended up not meet­ing Kaji un­til the aquar­i­um, [and you end up ask­ing,] when did they get to know each oth­er? How­ev­er, for a num­ber of rea­sons, I cut it.

— Sur­pris­ing­ly, I did­n’t no­tice that Shinji and Kaji first met at the aquar­i­um.

An­no: That’s be­cause you know the TV se­ries. You had that im­age in mind be­fore watch­ing [the film], so to a cer­tain ex­tent you saw it in that way, but I think some­one who did­n’t know the TV se­ries would defi­nitely have caught it. So, be­cause the ini­tial meet­ing be­tween Shinji and his friends and Kaji is an es­sen­tial scene, we re­made [the meet­ing] from the sto­ry­boards up­wards and in­cluded it in 2.22.

— The new aquar­i­um-like se­quence at the wa­ter pu­rifi­ca­tion plant takes on much of the weight of the [char­ac­ter?] de­pic­tions, but was there a spe­cial in­ten­tion be­hind it?

An­no: It was to de­pict some­thing Shinji had to know about. Some­thing like “the enor­mity of the world.” [I wanted to de­pict] the sea and the sky and the earth, in a con­crete way. If only the school and the city were de­picted the whole way through, then that ex­ten­sity would never emerge. As well, I wanted to put it in as a par­tial de­pic­tion of what re­ally hap­pened to the world to make the seas red.

— For the earth, there’s the scene where he’s gar­den­ing with Ka­ji.

An­no: Right. This time as well, Kaji takes on the role of the adult who broad­ens Shin­ji’s knowl­edge. Kaji does the rite-of-pas­sage type things that bring [a child] closer to adult­hood and which one’s par­ents would do in a nor­mal sit­u­a­tion. The ac­tion of Shinji touch­ing the earth in the [wa­ter­mel­on] patch was added after­wards. At the ear­li­est point, due par­tially to the diffi­culty of the sakuga17, Shinji only looked at the wa­ter­mel­ons with Ka­ji; he did­n’t help out with the weed­ing. How­ev­er, after the pre­miere of “Pre­lude,” I went to Ya­m­a­gata to col­lect in­for­ma­tion with my wife and her friends. For the first time in a long time I gath­ered up wild plants to eat, and I felt that this was of course the sort of sit­u­a­tion that Shinji needs. I re­mem­bered the scent of the earth, some­thing I had for­got­ten. It was ow­ing to that re­al-life ex­pe­ri­ence that I added Shinji pulling up the weeds. Al­though I pulled up weeds often when I was a child, after I went to Os­aka and Tokyo, I no longer did it at all. Re­cently I moved to Ka­maku­ra, and once again my op­por­tu­ni­ties to come into con­tact with the soil have in­creased. It’s ow­ing to my wife that I’ve been able to have this sort of ex­pe­ri­ence [a­gain]. From the bot­tom of my heart, I am grate­ful [to her].

Part 9


Through the col­lec­tive effort of a num­ber of cre­ators, com­pletely re­vised an­gel de­signs

— I would like to in­quire about the an­gels as a new el­e­ment this time around. Were the im­ages of the an­gels ba­si­cally some­thing that you put for­ward?

An­no: For the third an­gel, I did the rough orig­i­nal sketch. The con­cept was that it had al­ready been cap­tured, dis­sect­ed, an­a­lyzed, and se­curely stored away by hu­man be­ings. So, the im­age was that of a spec­i­men, the enor­mous skele­ton of a liv­ing be­ing. Al­so, be­cause we as­so­ciate skele­tal mon­sters with Ste­gon18, we jok­ingly dis­cussed giv­ing it the abil­ity to spew cor­ro­sive liq­uid from its mouth as a weapon (laugh­s).

— Why did you end up choos­ing [Mo­hi­ro] Ki­to­h-san?

A: Be­cause his de­signs are unique and in­ter­est­ing. I asked for some­thing more along the lines of than . I thought that the im­age of the dragon king’s palace [to do with Naru­taru?] was in­ter­est­ing, and that I would try cre­at­ing an an­gel along the lines of that im­pres­sion.

— Was it cre­ated as­sum­ing that it would be in CG?

A: That’s right. As­sum­ing it would be in CG, I had the im­age in mind of [a crea­ture that was] ba­si­cally just bones. Al­so, think­ing that you might not get a sense of move­ment if it did­n’t have some kind of legs, I added small ones. When we set it in mo­tion, the im­pres­sion it con­veyed some­how be­came more cute than fright­en­ing. I thought, be­cause of this, it could be­come pop­u­lar with wom­en, too (laugh­s). For the move­ment of its neck and tail, I of course had in mind the souen19 of tokusatsu.

— The sev­enth an­gel was in the old fa­mil­iar Hei­wa­jima style.

A: That did­n’t come from me. It was an idea pro­posed by (Daizen) Ko­mat­su­da-kun and Shigeto Koya­ma-san to­geth­er.

— There is a spik­i­ness to it rem­i­nis­cent of the Toshiba IHI pavil­ion at the .

A: I felt that, as it was con­structed out of a num­ber of iden­ti­cal com­po­nents, like [a con­struc­tion with] blocks, geo­met­ri­cal, and pos­sess­ing many com­po­nents, it could­n’t be drawn by hand, and was best suited to CG. I [?] did ex­press the opin­ion that it might end up be­ing like the World’s Fair pavil­ion20. The fi­nal re­sult tended a bit to­wards be­ing “art”, but I thought it was good.

The de­sign of the sev­enth an­gel changed re­peat­ed­ly. When we were first do­ing work on “Pre­lude,” I re­quested a de­sign in ad­vance from oka­ma-san. The stu­dio was not yet ready for com­mis­sions [?]; this was at a con­sid­er­ably early stage. Any­way, I had him make many draw­ings with no pre­de­ter­mined im­age, and then we would go back and forth in re­sponse to them. As, at this stage in the work, it was so early that the vi­sual im­age of the new films had yet to fully so­lid­ify in my mind, I had oka­ma-san just draw for me. After­wards, we had a plan in place where Unit-02 would be in­tro­duced by div­ing from mid-air to bat­tle an an­gel in the wa­ter. So, an im­age of, or com­mis­sion for, an aquatic an­gel that we could get away with not hav­ing move very much was de­cided up­on. Since [de­pict­ing] Unit-02 here would use up our sakuga-draw­ing time, I de­cided from the be­gin­ning to do the an­gel in CG. How­ev­er, be­fore the “taste” of oka­ma-san’s an­gel could re­ally come to­geth­er, I be­came busy with “Pre­lude,” and that [ear­lier] work seemed to spon­ta­neously come to an halt.

So, when work re­sumed on “Break” after the first “Pre­lude” screen­ing, I told Ko­mat­su­da-kun, who was in charge of that scene, that we could change the sto­ry­boards, and I asked him if he had any ideas. At that point he and Koya­ma-kun pre­sented their pro­pos­al, and al­though I apol­o­gized to oka­ma-san for do­ing so, I de­cided to use it. As the an­gel would only ap­pear briefly, as, so to speak, a “yarare21 mecha”, I wanted it to have a vi­sual im­pact. That was some­thing the pro­posed de­sign pro­vid­ed. In ad­di­tion, it was good that the struc­ture of the de­sign, in­clud­ing the move­ment, was well-suited to CG.

— What about the 8th an­gel, which you called the “falling an­gel” in pro­duc­tion?

A: To start with, I asked (Takashi) Watabe-san [to do the de­sign]. His de­sign in­cor­po­rated al­ter­ations while pre­serv­ing the im­age of the orig­i­nal. The idea or con­ceit whereby the an­gel un­folds from a spher­i­cal shape was con­tributed by Watabe-san at this point. Only I felt his de­sign was a bit too bi­o­log­i­cal to be well-suited to CG. I wanted some­thing with a strong vi­sual im­pact, sim­ple and geo­met­ri­cal as well as ex­cit­ing. [Con­sid­ered] as a [men­tal] im­age, it’s [re­al­ly] just [some­thing] falling, so I wanted to have that feel­ing vi­su­al­ly. When I thought, who would be well-suited for this, then I re­al­ized, of course, it could only be Mahiro (Maeda). It was great, as we had time on the sched­ule, and Mahiro at­tacked the work en­thu­si­as­ti­cal­ly. He sub­mit­ted things like a vi­sual im­age of some­thing the color of squid ink mov­ing, and a de­sign where mys­te­ri­ous hu­man forms danced along the bot­tom of a sphere. I liked that there was a strange kind of con­tin­ual mo­tion.

As I re­call, the an­gel con­ceal­ing it­self when it first ap­pears with a kind of mo­saic effect22 was con­ceived dur­ing the mak­ing of the pre­view trail­er. I did­n’t want to clearly show the forms of the an­gels in the trail­er. So, not know­ing what to do, that was a des­per­ate mea­sure, but the re­sult was good. Fur­ther­more, the cov­er­ing of it­self with the A.T. Field and the de­ploy­ment of the field as a rud­der were ideas that we came up with on the spot and in­cor­po­rated while view­ing the out­put dur­ing the CG work.

— What about the hu­man form that fi­nally emerges from within [the an­gel]?

A: As it be­comes en­tan­gled with Unit-01, I de­cided that it would be the only part [of the an­gel] to be drawn as sakuga. I asked (Yoshi­to) Asar­i-san, who was oc­cu­pied in the stu­dio with the 10th an­gel’s de­sign, if he would be able to do yet an­other task for me, and had him draw a few rough sketches or idea sketches on the spot. I have a feel­ing [this] com­mis­sion was made rel­a­tively early on. I had Hon­da-kun make a fi­nal con­sol­i­da­tion of the idea sketch­es. Later on, once Mahi­ro’s full de­sign was com­plete, I had Hon­da-kun re­draw the de­sign all over again in or­der to give it con­sis­tency or iden­ti­ty. That be­came the form [of the an­gel] we would put on the screen.

— I heard that the CG team had a great deal of diffi­culty with this an­gel.

A: Things did­n’t go well at all. [There were diffi­cul­ties with] the sense of enor­mity and the move­ment, and there was not enough time. We con­tin­u­ally ex­per­i­mented with the im­age [of the an­gel] with­out it be­com­ing set­tled. The work around that point went on in a to­tal state of con­fu­sion. Again, we were do­ing a va­ri­ety of things right up un­til sat­suei.

— I heard that the part where [the an­gel is] de­feated was re­done an as­ton­ish­ing num­ber of times.

A: There were a num­ber of diffi­cul­ties do­ing that cut—the move­ment of the an­gel up un­til it liq­ue­fies, con­vey­ing the size of the an­gel, the uti­liza­tion of the ini­tial lay­out—and in the end we ran out of time, so we fin­ished the min­i­mum pos­si­ble be­fore the film went to the­aters. Just about the only good thing was (Takashi) Hashimo­to-kun’s sakuga of the wave. Ac­cord­ing­ly, in 2.22 we tack­led [that se­quence] once again.

— The on­rush of the wave was tokusatsu-esque.

A: That was a scene Masayuki added in sto­ry­board­ing. It was a cut he “ad-libbed” that was­n’t in the script, but the fact that it looked like the way wa­ter is poured out in tokusatsu was great. Hashimo­to-kun’s sakuga were ex­cel­lent, the sat­suei and so on also went well, and [it ended up be­ing] a great scene that looks like the prod­uct of an un­com­pro­mis­ing effort. When I first watched the rush­es, I thought that it needed a close up shot—or should I say, that I wanted to see one!—so I asked Norita (Takashi Hashimo­to’s pet name) to add an ad­di­tional cut. I was aim­ing at the tremen­dous en­ergy of the scene where col­lapses in the TV ver­sion of .23

— Did the de­sign of the ninth an­gel—that is, of Eva Unit-03—change?

A: Well, the de­sign of Unit-03 it­self [re­mained] just about the same, I think. We ba­si­cally just changed the col­ors a lit­tle bit.

— In the bat­tle with Unit-03, the de­sign of the dummy plug is new.

A: As there was no time at all to al­ter the de­sign [of the plug] dur­ing the TV se­ries, just about all that we could do was to have a laser disc start spin­ning in the back and change the color scheme with a full screen para over­lay24. This time we fi­nally had the chance [to thor­oughly change it], so I asked (Iku­to) Ya­mashita-kun to al­ter the de­sign of the rear in­te­ri­or. He sug­gested that we give the rear in­te­rior a hu­man form. I wanted the dummy plug to have the sense of a jum­ble of a num­ber of el­e­ments: a slimy mo­tion us­ing CG, or a dis­gust­ing­ness to its mo­tion; a ro­botic cold­ness, and yet a bi­o­log­i­cal feel­ing that makes it seem like it might con­tain a hu­man be­ing. We took pains with the de­tails of the move­ment, ap­pear­ance, and so on, but the re­sult was good.

— After the dummy sys­tem be­gins op­er­at­ing, it be­comes im­pos­si­ble for Shinji to see what is go­ing on out­side.

A: Right. This time I wanted to em­pha­size the sense that Shinji could­n’t do any­thing, so we cre­ated a sit­u­a­tion where his hands had been forcibly re­strained by lev­er-like de­vices [?], his mon­i­tors had been com­pletely ap­pro­pri­ated for the us­age of the dummy sys­tem, and he could only guess what was hap­pen­ing based on the noises re­ver­ber­at­ing in­side the plug. I thought, the dummy tak­ing his place in the cock­pit, his for­ward field of vi­sion will also be ob­struct­ed. The im­age on the mon­i­tors is in­for­ma­tion from the out­side seen from the per­spec­tive of the dummy sys­tem. [Just] an un­usual screen im­age was enough.

— Has the set­tei of the dummy plug it­self also changed a lit­tle? There is a scene where Gendo is sug­ges­tively touch­ing [the dummy plug].

A: Right. I’m not sure it will come out in the work, but I am think­ing in terms of a set­tei slightly al­tered from the orig­i­nal.

— The de­sign of the tenth an­gel, which cor­re­sponds to the an­gel from episode nine­teen of the TV se­ries, has also been con­sid­er­ably al­tered.

A: Right. That was also the re­sult of re­peated changes. I wanted to trans­form [the 14th an­gel from the TV se­ries] into a new an­gel based on the orig­i­nal de­sign, as I wanted new de­signs for all the an­gels in “Break”. Ac­cord­ing­ly, just like with the TV se­ries, I had Asar­i-san draw­ing var­i­ous rough sketches [of the an­gel’s de­sign] in the stu­dio. I had Hon­da-kun re­vise those into set­tei.

Only the face re­mained iden­ti­cal to the TV ver­sion, as the face, I thought, was good, after all. The idea was that it would be more in­ter­est­ing to start by mis­lead­ing the au­di­ence mem­bers who knew the pre­vi­ous work into think­ing for a mo­ment that this was the same an­gel [as be­fore], and then rapidly trans­form it. The idea came up at a meet­ing be­tween Asar­i-san, Makki, and my­self.

— The trans­form­ing, the grow­ing of the ten­ta­cles, and so on, is an idea char­ac­ter­is­tic of Asar­i-san.

A: Yeah. I be­lieve that the foun­da­tion, and many other things, were ideas that came from Asar­i-san. As we were aim­ing at some­thing that would ap­pear the same as be­fore but be in fact differ­ent, Asar­i-san was greatly trou­bled [by the diffi­culty of it].

— When I in­ter­viewed Tsu­ru­mak­i-san, he said that the “pata-pata” [sound of pa­per flut­ter­ing; i.e. the pa­per arms] con­ceit was ma­te­r­ial that came from the pro­posal for the TV se­ries25, and he was­n’t sure why it was changed [in the film].

A: That was be­cause I thought that its im­pact was, in the end, likely a one-time thing. Orig­i­nal­ly, at the time of the se­ries pro­pos­al, the ini­tial im­age was an “origami an­gel,” a cube that would change shape, go­ing “pata-pa­ta.” Then, it would link up and form a , and so on. That was what we were think­ing dur­ing [the ini­tial] plan­ning. How­ev­er, in the pro­duc­tion en­vi­ron­ment of a tele­vi­sion se­ries at that time, that sort of de­pic­tion was very much im­pos­si­ble. So, that re­ally was a de­sign used in the se­ries pro­posal that ex­isted from the be­gin­ning. How­ev­er, I in­tended to at least use the “pata-pata” idea some­where. So, for episode 19, I thought that, as this is the most pow­er­ful an­gel, I have to use it here. The Moe­bius strip [idea] was con­sid­er­ably sim­pli­fied and brought over to episode 23. But, we were able to do it at that time be­cause we were fi­nally able to use sim­ple 3D CG mod­els as guides for the sakuga.

The “pata-pata” [ele­ment] of the an­gel was re­ally well done, so it was hard to aban­don it, as a vi­sual [ele­ment] as well [as a de­sign con­cep­t]. But I feel like I took the risk of switch­ing to a differ­ent method of at­tack be­cause I was search­ing for change.

— Was the new de­vel­op­ment where [the an­gel] de­vours Unit-00 also some­thing you con­ceived dur­ing the ini­tial sce­nar­i­o-writ­ing stage?

A: Well, the sto­ry­line where Unit-01 de­vours the an­gel was no longer present at the ear­li­est stage of the plot. For the new movies, from the ear­li­est stage of plan­ning there was a con­cep­tion where “Unit-01 will reach its op­er­a­tional lim­it, cease mov­ing, and nearly be­come ab­sorbed by the tenth an­gel; in or­der to save Shin­ji, Rei will forcibly unite Unit-00 with the an­gel and self­-de­struct.” The script was writ­ten ac­cord­ing to that con­cep­tion up un­til the fifth draft. That changed from the sev­enth draft on to a con­cep­tion where the an­gel de­voured Unit-00. It seemed more nat­ural that, rather than de­lib­er­ately fus­ing with the an­gel, Rei would be de­voured by the an­gel and ab­sorbed against her will. I did­n’t ar­rive at that idea un­til a great deal of time had passed. I lamented my lack of tal­ent [after­ward­s], won­der­ing why I had­n’t thought of it be­fore then.

— Why had­n’t you?

A: Well, it was as Rit­suko’s line ex­presses it, some­thing im­pos­si­ble. [Im­pos­si­ble] in terms of the set­tei in my mind. But I thought that was good, so it was bet­ter this way. I thought, I can just re­think the set­tei to con­form with it (laugh­s). What was im­por­tant was the ap­peal of the cir­cum­stance of the an­gel de­vour­ing the Eva.

— Tsu­ru­mak­i-san also said some­thing about want­ing to make the de­sign after the ab­sorp­tion re­sem­ble a Sen­tai Se­ries vil­lain­ess.

A: I thought, if we put it on screen, it would be a lit­tle too much [like] a man­ga. I felt that, if it has a vaguely hu­man body and bal­ances it­self, in cel ani­me, a sym­bolic [means of] ex­pres­sion, it won’t be seen as any­thing but a gi­ant hu­man be­ing. I thought that, if this was live ac­tion, there would be a way to do it, but it’s diffi­cult in ani­me. We did­n’t have the time or re­sources to do some­thing with it. On top of that, Ko­mat­su­da-kun say­ing that he would­n’t al­low a woman to be beaten [in the film] was a ma­jor rea­son. He had a strong neg­a­tive re­ac­tion, say­ing that, even if it is not a woman in terms of the set­tei, the male pro­tag­o­nist will be strik­ing some­thing that can only ap­pear [to the view­er] as a wom­an, and that he was un­able to di­rect or de­pict that. I thought that it cer­tainly is­n’t good if we have a per­son re­ject­ing [the de­sign] to this ex­tent. So, with ac­cu­mu­lated re­vi­sions, it be­came the cur­rent de­sign. In color co­or­di­na­tion, there were still a va­ri­ety of is­sues con­cern­ing what to do about base col­ors and what to do about irowake26. Fi­nal­ly, it reached its cur­rent form.

Part 10


The Eva de­signs change with “Break”

  • In part D, there is a new de­vel­op­ment where Mari ac­ti­vates Unit-02’s bes­tial­ized form, “the beast.” How did you de­cide upon that?

Anno: I wanted Unit-02 to go out of con­trol, but it would be dull if it was just the same as with Unit-01. So [the con­cept] arose when I asked for sug­ges­tions. It com­bined ideas from Shin-chan and Ya­mashita-kun. I think it was Ya­mashita-kun [who came up with the idea of] an Eva be­ing lib­er­ated by the con­trol rods com­ing out of its body. The ad­di­tion [of the struc­ture of the rods] re­sem­bling the dor­sal fin of a mon­ster, and other things, [was made], I think, in Shin-chan’s im­age boards. My mem­o­ries of that pe­riod are a lit­tle un­clear.

The strug­gle to de­pict the [E­va’s] aban­don­ment of hu­man­ity was [sure­ly] diffi­cult. I got [some peo­ple] to do some­thing about it by way of de­ploy­ing good sakuga. Re­al­ly, they did an ex­cel­lent job, with no time for Unit-02’s sakuga on the sched­ule. In­cred­i­ble. As is typ­i­cal of them.

— It seems that the de­sign of Mark.06 is a bit differ­ent than it was in the pre­view [at the end] of “Pre­lude.”

An.: It’s fun­da­men­tally the same. The de­sign of Unit-06 was more or less com­pleted dur­ing work on “Pre­lude.” For this film, only a few bal­ance-re­lated ad­just­ments were made. The dark blue col­or­ing, too, was de­cided upon from the out­set.

— This was the Eva that you in­tended Ka­woru to pi­lot.

A: Yeah. In the ear­li­est ver­sion of the script I thought he would make a showier en­trance, but [in the end] I felt hav­ing him be so quiet was bet­ter for the scene.

— The lance we see at the lu­nar base is the same one that ap­pears in the fi­nal scene.

A: Yeah. I think, be­cause we cov­ered it up, it was hard to un­der­stand as fore­shad­ow­ing, but I thought that much was fine. The lance also has a name, which was sup­posed to ap­pear in Ka­woru’s fi­nal di­a­logue. How­ev­er, as the events of the story prior to that changed, it ended up not com­ing in. Even so, in the fifteenth draft, Ka­woru was go­ing to say a num­ber of things. How­ev­er, in the fi­nal six­teenth draft, that part was cut out en­tire­ly, be­cause it was bor­ing to have him just re­cite the set­tei.

— How was it do­ing Eva de­sign once more?

A: I had de­ter­mined in ad­vance that Unit-05 would be done in CG, so from the be­gin­ning it had the set­tei of be­ing pro­vi­sion­al. Be­cause of that, from the [de­sign] re­quests on­wards, it was de­cided that it would not be bipedal. At the ini­tial uchi­awase [for Unit-05] with Ya­mashita-kun, I said some­thing like, it could move on cater­pil­lar treads, and when it stands erect shift to bipedal move­ment as well. I wanted to try do­ing the rolling move­ment of ri­tai and pivot turns27 in CG. How­ev­er, that was re­jected by Ya­mashita-kun, who said that he did­n’t want to do it be­cause it would re­sem­ble Shin Get­ter-3 (sad ex­pres­sion). Due to that, it [was given] a four-wheel type of move­ment. That way, it could drift, and also con­vey a feel­ing of speed­ing along, so that was fine too, I thought.

Since I wanted to avoid hav­ing it fight hand-to-hand with [s­mall] hand-held weapons, it was given a lance, which only had to thrust, and a claw as its weapons. As an an­ti-an­gel weapon, a lance had [some­thing of] the im­age of the lance of Long­i­nus, and it also made it feel like [U­nit-05’s] op­er­a­tion had been spe­cial­ized, so I thought that would be good.

The idea of giv­ing it power through a trol­ley sys­tem28 also came from Ya­mashita-kun. That was good, as it also changed things vi­su­al­ly, and again gave the feel­ing that [U­nit-05’s] op­er­a­tion had been spe­cial­ized for [use] within the base. After Ya­mashita-kun’s work had fin­ished I added a few mi­nor de­tails. I be­lieve the work of re­vis­ing the model was ter­ri­ble [for Ya­mashita]. Though I was sorry about that, there was noth­ing I could do.

Since the main body was de­vel­oped jointly by Eu­rope and Rus­sia, the col­or­ing in­te­grates the im­ages of the R-type rocket29 and the Eu­rostar in an eas­ily un­der­stand­able way. Even though we had this im­age [of in­te­grat­ing the R-type rocket and Eu­rostar] we strug­gled to achieve a bal­ance in the color scheme and we ended up tak­ing time. Al­though at one point we set­tled on a scheme, the large num­ber of col­ors was an­noy­ing, so I asked [Ya­mashita] to redo it once more, ton­ing down the col­or­ing. The dig­i­tal com­po­nents re­ally caused great diffi­cul­ty.

Since [work on] “Pre­lude” I had been think­ing that, if we were tak­ing the trou­ble to make a new work, then I would change Unit-02[’s de­sign] as well. I thought to sim­ply add a pair of fins or an­tenna to bring out [or al­ter?] the shape of the head, but when I gave it to Ya­mashita-kun, he changed [the de­sign] a lit­tle too much, so I asked Shisho (Takeshi Hon­da’s pet name), [serv­ing as] a sakkan, to make the fi­nal ad­just­ments. What re­sulted was like the bow of a war­ship. Maybe that was due to the fact that around that time I was pro­duc­ing the Yam­ato model de­sign (laughs)30. The col­or­ing was es­tab­lished to con­form with [the style of] Unit-01 and Unit-00 in “Pre­lude.” I re­mem­ber hav­ing diffi­cul­ties with the color of the arms. This time around—­for Unit-01, as well—we changed the col­ors of things like the mul­ti­-lay­ered chest ar­mor plates and the spinal cov­er­ing a lit­tle. For the arms, too, I added a stripe, think­ing that since this was “se­ries two” I wanted a “Re­turn Of…” [kind of] feel­ing. Hon­da-kun changed the ful­l-body pro­por­tions of the Evas of his own ini­tia­tive, [in ac­cor­dance with] how he wanted them to be. As a I men­tioned ear­lier, Unit-06 was just about the same [in “Break”] as in the pre­view [at the end] of “Pre­lude.”

— The de­signs of the plug­suits changed a lit­tle bit this time around as well.

A: Yeah. I en­trusted it to O-Sada, and he changed them a bit for me. I wanted to add a differ­ent feel­ing onto the screen, even if only a lit­tle bit. With Mari, I aimed to dis­tin­guish her from the other pi­lots by hav­ing her wear two kinds of suits, a gen­er­a­tion be­hind and a gen­er­a­tion ahead, old and new.

Shinji Higuchi


[TODO: Is this an in­ter­view or some sort of ex­cerpt from the sto­ry­board sec­tion of CRC? Is it com­plete?]

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=403715#403715 :

Higuchi’s in­ter­view is re­ally fun­ny, be­cause he seems to re­ally dis­like the “chaotic” way Eva comes to­gether (he said it was the same for 1.0, even with­out the ma­jor plot changes… he makes many jokes about the whole thing) and just shuts him­self off from the “scriptwrit­ing” process, and draws what­ever sto­ry­boards peo­ple re­quest from him ^__^ Higuchi com­ments on a bunch of his old sto­ry­boards shown to him by the in­ter­view­er, and I want to post up the sto­ry­boards + the de­scrip­tion of each + Higuchi’s com­ments on each one.


[It’s worth not­ing that Higuchi’s por­trait in The Notenki Mem­oirs is the pro­fes­sion­al, a di­rec­tor who will get things done on time, a pinch-hit­ter; for ex­am­ple, di­rect­ing a num­ber of Na­dia episodes when Gainax be­gan falling be­hind.]


“Asuka cor­roded by the ninth An­gel. Rough sketch for the im­age board”.

The Asuka/Kaworu di­a­logue in ques­tion is:

KAWORU: This isn't like you.
ASUKA: It's not like me?
KAWORU: Because happiness doesn't suit you.
ASUKA: The happy me... is scary. So I'll return to the usual me.

Patrick Yip:

I am more in­ter­ested in the sto­ry­board above the Ka­woru meet­ing 4 Rei clones. There is a sex scene be­tween gi­ant Rei and Eva-01 in 2.0 ??? (the sto­ry­board ex­plic­itly said it is a sex scene).


It’s a strange scene! It was­n’t used in 2.0; it was based on the orig­i­nally scripted fi­nale, which fol­lowed episode 23 much more closely and was changed very late in pro­duc­tion. Shinji Higuchi drew the sto­ry­board, and made an in­ter­est­ing com­ment in the CRC in­ter­views; here is the ex­cerpt. The sto­ry­board is a ver­sion, I think, of this scene from episode 23 of the se­ries.

Higuchi interview

Higuchi: When I watched the pre­view screen­ing, it was [the Asuka pos­ses­sion scene] that shocked me the most. The scene was sup­posed to be cru­el, with Asuka be­com­ing “cor­roded” and los­ing her face, but the [fi­nal] treat­ment had be­come in­cred­i­bly gen­tle.

— In the first sce­nar­io, her for­tune was to be pierced by a num­ber of ul­tra­-fine nee­dles.

Higuchi: So it was like the im­age of a “hedge­hog”. The fact that the nee­dles were di­rected to­wards the in­te­rior meant that Asuka was be­com­ing in­trop­uni­tive [self-pun­ish­ing].

— There­fore the sce­nario un­folds with Ka­woru’s ad­dress: “It’s not like you”. In Higuchi-san’s sto­ry­board, the de­tached skin also be­comes a face and ad­dresses [A­suka]. The hor­ror re­sem­bles “Niku­men”, but from what im­age did this “peel­ing off” come from?

Higuchi: The or­der was, “some­thing like ‘.’”

— That’s used in “Mys­ter­ies of the Hu­man Body”31. Dis­sect­ed, three­-di­men­sional ob­jects made by pour­ing resin into do­nated bod­ies, right?

Higuchi: Right. Here, I was think­ing only of some­thing that peo­ple would hate. Up to then there had been a some­what “poka-poka” mood. Think­ing “this ‘home­room drama’ is not Eva!”, I wanted to con­front [the au­di­ence] with some­thing hate­ful. In ac­tu­al­i­ty, from the point of view of the sto­ry, from that point on “hell” be­gins and that sort of hap­pi­ness does not en­dure. “Eva” is re­ally like this; that “poka-poka” at­mos­phere will de­scend into chaos! I put that sort of feel­ing of il­l-will into my draw­ing.

When that sort of shock­ing thing did­n’t hap­pen, I thought that the de­vel­op­ment by which the hap­pi­ness that had [been por­trayed] up to that point changes to tragedy prob­a­bly would­n’t oc­cur. As for the Asuka of “Break”, it was a sit­u­a­tion where the en­tire team was at odds. This be­ing the case, I thought this [scene?] was an ab­solute “death flag”. I thought about a cru­elty worse than death, and this was the re­sult.

— I thought that this “‘Niku­men’ ver­sion” had been se­lected [to be used]. It was also used in Tsu­ru­mak­i-san’s sto­ry­boards, and dur­ing the record­ing ses­sions I have a mem­ory of it be­ing record­ed.

Higuchi: As for when and how it was changed, I don’t know, but prob­a­bly the mal­ice [I felt] when I drew the scene was too much for peo­ple to see up front.



Early Provisional Draft Storyboard / Shinji HIGUCHI
Corresponding to section C-1367 of the completed work.
A scene where Shinji leaves Tokyo-3.
For provisional draft storyboards, cut numbers are omitted.

Mari: I'm not interested in boys who run away with their tail between their legs...!
      Are you stupid? [_Anta baka_?] One person almost died? What? Are you a coward?
      Don't take [me?] for granted[?]. Instead, I'll only thank you if you fight.
      Your expression---like you alone carry all the burdens on your shoulders---looks idiotic!
      ... is what Asuka-chan would say if she was here. / MARI: It's not the case that you
      could become God because you piloted Eva. There are people you can save, and people you can't.

— […] As for Mari, there is a scene where she has a con­ver­sa­tion with Shinji after he parts from Mis­ato. She im­i­tates Asuka’s man­ner of speak­ing there, right? After­wards, at the cli­max of the bat­tle where Unit-01 grows wings, she is star­ing at it from a dis­tance…

Higuchi: If I had to say, I’d say she was like a fe­male ver­sion of Ka­woru.


Early Provisional Draft Storyboard / Shinji HIGUCHI
Corresponding to section C-1456 and following of the completed work.
A scene where Eva Unit-02 battles the 10th Angel in the Geofront.
An unconscious Asuka is restrained within the Entry Plug.

— […] Mari does not pi­lot Eva-02 dur­ing the cli­max in your June 2007 sto­ry­board.

Higuchi: That’s right, that’s right. We had an un­con­scious, “puppet/doll-like” Asuka rid­ing in Unit-02, right?

Sto­ry­board by Shinji Higuchi: an an­gel in­vades & guns fire at it
Early Provisional Draft Storyboard / Shinji HIGUCHI
Corresponding to section C-1676 and following of the completed work.
A scene where the 10th Angel invades Command Center No. 1 of Nerv HQ.
The HQ control tower retracts and gun turrets appear, firing upon the Angel.

— On­ly, if we look at the first sto­ry­boards they are not com­pletely the same [as the orig­i­nal episode 19]. Masayuk­i-san’s new idea “the com­mand cen­ter be­comes a bat­tle­ship” was also in­sert­ed.

Higuchi: “Let’s add ar­tillery. The ar­tillery of a bat­tle­ship will emerge from the com­mand cen­ter and fire. Tee-hee!” I re­ceived a pro­posal like that from Ban­chou [“delin­quent leader”] (Di­rec­tor Masayuk­i), so I drew the sto­ry­board. But that de­vel­op­ment meet­ing took place much ear­lier than the “Pre­lude” pre­miere, in a dis­tant haze; I don’t know how long ago the con­ver­sa­tion was.

Yoji Enokido


http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=401918#401918 :

As far as I un­der­stand it, [Yōji] only worked on the movie for three days (at Atami). Prob­a­bly the most im­por­tant rea­son for get­ting him on board was to get an “out­sider” to de­cide on the fi­nal cuts to be made (e­spe­cially con­sid­er­ing the fact, as the in­ter­view shows, that who­ever had to make those de­ci­sions risked in­cur­ring the wrath of the oth­ers ^^). After­wards, he did­n’t know if his ideas would end up be­ing used in the film or not. Later in the in­ter­view he says he was sur­prised to see a fi­nal se­quence so close to the idea he pro­posed at Ata­mi.

Ac­cord­ing to Enoki­do, Anno wrote the drafts of each Re­build script by him­self, and then con­sulted other peo­ple on var­i­ous things after­wards. This is al­most the re­verse of how he worked on the se­ries, where he de­scribed a plot, an­other writer pro­duced the draft script, and fi­nally Anno amended it.

Also ac­cord­ing to Enoki­do, when Anno ex­plained the “back­ground” (裏設定) of Eva to him at Atami, it struck him as a con­tin­u­a­tion of what Anno had told him 16 years pri­or, when Enokido was writ­ing for Eva. The mood at Atami was on the whole “heavy”.


Excerpt 1


Enoki­do: Be­cause “Re­build of Evan­ge­lion” is ba­si­cally a re­con­struc­tion of the TV se­ries, we pre­sume that sooner or later Rei II will die. If Shin­ji-kun were to save Rei II it would mean a sig­nifi­cant de­par­ture from the TV se­ries. How­ev­er, I be­lieved that the last scene of the film had to be an earth­-shat­ter­ing cli­max. When I had this idea, it was im­pos­si­ble for me not to com­mu­ni­cate it. I re­mem­ber, on the third day [of the ses­sion­s], per­form­ing a solo play in front of every­one us­ing hand ges­tures and body move­ments en­ti­tled “this is how it ends!”

— So, in this play, you per­formed ac­tions like [Sh­in­ji] pulling [Rei] up and out [of the An­gel]?

Enoki­do: Right. Rei gets com­pletely ab­sorbed by the An­gel. It’s just as though she has died and en­tered the nether­world. The au­di­ence is think­ing that Rei is dead. De­spite this, Shinji pi­lots Unit-01 again in or­der to save Rei. He cries out “Ayanami!” and reaches for­ward, with an aw­ful noise, through the front of the en­try plug. He must es­tab­lish some means of de­scend­ing to the un­der­world. Fi­nal­ly, hav­ing grabbed (the un­clothed) Rei’s hand, he pulls her out with a sud­den move­ment. I feel I demon­strated this method of res­cue with all my might. I com­pletely trans­formed into Shin­ji. I think every­one was star­ing at me very coldly (laugh).

Excerpt 2


Enoki­do: … I felt the de­vel­op­ment of the sec­ond half of the TV se­ries was in­cred­i­ble. On­ly, I was a lit­tle sad­dened by death of Rei II and her re­place­ment by Rei III. For my­self, I wanted that Rei who had re­peat­edly shared bat­tles and en­coun­ters with Shinji to go on to the end. But the orig­i­nal sce­nario for “Break” was, nat­u­ral­ly, sim­i­lar to the TV se­ries, with Rei II self­-de­struc­t­ing. On the morn­ing of the third day [the pro­duc­tion team] stayed to­geth­er, I sud­denly had the thought: “What if, in the fi­nal scene, Shinji hap­pened to save Rei? … It would be in­cred­i­ble!” I worked my­self up into a fren­zy. Among the rea­sons for my en­thu­si­asm was the recog­ni­tion that this would com­pletely over­turn the ex­pec­ta­tions of the au­di­ence. When we speak of the most im­por­tant “cathar­sis” pro­vided by film, we might say that a film cre­ates in the au­di­ence a sense that the char­ac­ters are in dan­ger, only to over­turn it: we go from, “this char­ac­ter is in dan­ger and surely will be badly hurt,” to “it can’t be!” This con­sti­tutes, so to speak, a be­trayal of the au­di­ence in the form of a sud­den change. This “sal­va­tion” is the essence of the fi­nal scene.

Excerpt 3


[Note: I could­n’t quite work out the com­plete mean­ing of the first two sen­tences of this part with­out know­ing the ques­tion Enokido was asked, so I left them out. They seem to re­late to Anno and his as­sis­tant Todor­oki “tak­ing over” the con­cep­t.]

Enoki­do: … At that time I had only de­cided that Shinji would save Rei II. After­wards, as I was per­form­ing and speak­ing more or less off the top of my head, I was en­ter­ing a kind of trance state. As is typ­i­cal of me, when I reached the cli­mac­tic scene where [Sh­in­ji] cries “Ayanami!” and be­gins to walk for­ward, just as I grabbed [Rei’s] hand and pulled [her] up­wards, I sud­denly came back to my­self (laugh). “Now what hap­pens?” I won­dered. Now, in the film, when Shinji saves Rei, Ka­woru-kun sud­denly de­scends from heaven and im­pales him with a spear. When I was en­thu­si­as­ti­cally per­form­ing the “sav­ing” scene, I could­n’t en­vi­sion any­thing ex­cept Ka­woru-kun stab­bing me with some­thing sharp and scream­ing “That’s Enough! Act Re­spon­si­bly!” (laugh)

Excerpt 4


“In short, Rei or some­one else is caught in a des­per­ate sit­u­a­tion, a sit­u­a­tion in which she ab­solutely can­not be saved. Shinji saves that per­son by means of an im­pos­si­ble method. I could not help won­der­ing if the sub­ti­tle ‘The Only Neat Thing To Do’ im­plied such a scene, which achieves a cathar­tic re­ver­sal in a mirac­u­lous way”.

Part 1


A Re­quest to Per­fect the Screen­play

— We re­ceived a strong de­mand from An­no-san that an in­ter­view with Enoki­do-san be in­cluded in the “Com­plete Works Col­lec­tion”.

Enoki­do: I see! If that’s the case, I’ll an­swer en­thu­si­as­ti­cally (laugh­s).

— When we were gath­er­ing in­for­ma­tion from (Kazuya) Tsu­ru­mak­i-san be­fore the pre­miere, he told us that, in “de­stroy­ing” Eva, your ideas are be­ing in­cor­po­rated every­where32. So we’re in­ter­ested [to talk to you]. Do you re­mem­ber the first oc­ca­sion when [An­no] reached out to con­sult you?

Enoki­do: The doc­u­ment [pro­duced as a re­sult] still ex­ists, so I brought it.

— Thank you. The story of the ex­act mo­ment con­tains a strange “pat­tern”, right?

Enoki­do: It was two years ago, so I think there are parts I’ve started to for­get. The first talk was in 2007, I think in late Sep­tem­ber or in Oc­to­ber.

— So just fol­low­ing the pre­miere of “Pre­lude”?

Enoki­do: Yeah. I went to see the movie, as a fan, soon after it opened. As I watched the pre­view trailer after the end­ing, I thought, “So, from the next film for­ward we get new de­vel­op­ments? This seems in­ter­est­ing”.

— You saw it as “a com­plete out­sider”, right? (s­miles)

Enoki­do: That night I re­ceived a call from “Khara-san” [An­no]. “What do you want to do for the sec­ond film?” “Huh? Me?” I re­mem­ber a con­ver­sa­tion along those lines.

— The fact that you had seen the first film just be­fore that … it seems pre­des­tined, right? How did you view it?

Enoki­do: It was very in­ter­est­ing. I think it was a kind of con­for­ma­tion. To this day I still haven’t asked [An­no], but I won­dered, “why choose me for ‘Break’”? I thought it was ei­ther be­cause of my col­lab­o­ra­tions with Tsu­ru­mak­i-san on FLCL and Gun­buster 2, or else I had been called be­cause of my con­tri­bu­tions to the scripts of the orig­i­nal “Eva” se­ries as a ro­tat­ing staff mem­ber.

— When we were con­duct­ing other in­ter­views, we got the feel­ing that the project reached a “limit”, fol­lowed by some kind of ma­jor change. It seems like Enoki­do-san’s ideas were re­lied on more than what had been de­vel­oped pre­vi­ous­ly.

Enoki­do: When I was called, there were al­ready sched­ul­ing pres­sures. At that time I also heard that two differ­ent ver­sions of the last scene had been sto­ry­boarded and scrapped.

— That be­ing the case, did you have the im­pres­sion of see­ing things from com­pletely out­side of the “Re­build” pro­ject?

Enoki­do: Yes. Be­cause I worked as a scriptwriter on four episodes of the orig­i­nal TV se­ries, I am cred­ited in the “Re­build” films as a “screen­play con­sul­tant”. How­ev­er, I did no work at all on “Pre­lude”, and at the time I was called to work on “Break”, a com­plete draft of the film’s script al­ready ex­ist­ed. As Anno said he wanted fur­ther changes, I was sent a copy of the script be­fore a meet­ing be­tween us was even arranged. So first of all I read the script, and found it very in­ter­est­ing.

— What sort of things seemed in­ter­est­ing?

Enoki­do: To be­gin with, con­sid­er­ing that “Pre­lude” has to recre­ate episodes one through six in less than two hours, I think they did an ex­cel­lent job or­ga­niz­ing the film and main­tain­ing bal­ance. The story de­vel­op­ment is the same; it’s okay if they crowd out the de­tails. That be­ing the case, when I thought about “Break”, I ex­pected that they would do a good job if they man­aged to cover episodes eight to thir­teen or so. But when I re­al­ized they were at­tempt­ing to treat every­thing up to episode twen­ty-three in one go, I could­n’t un­der­stand how they would do it. How­ev­er, when I read the script, I saw how amaz­ingly skill­fully things had been or­ga­nized. “Just as I ex­pect­ed!” I thought. “In­deed, if they do it like this, the en­tire se­ries be­comes a sin­gle episode”.

— And yet, de­spite do­ing so well, they had lost their bear­ings, and asked you to fix things?

Enoki­do: Right… I had re­ceived the im­pres­sion that Mar­i’s char­ac­ter de­vel­op­ment was not yet com­plete. Fur­ther­more, I think that there were parts that still re­tained the at­mos­phere of a “sum­mary film”. Be­cause an out­side ob­server often sees fur­ther than the par­tic­i­pants, I thought it would be good to be­gin by point­ing out these sorts of things. I wrote an en­tire “plan of or­ga­ni­za­tion” or “plan of re­vi­sion”; I be­lieve it was this doc­u­ment here (Dated Oc­to­ber 13; re­pro­duced in CRC 2.0 pp. 236–237). To the ex­tent it dis­cusses the plot no changes are made; it’s a “com­po­si­tional memo”. I sub­mit­ted the memo shortly after the script ar­rived, and after that a meet­ing was arranged, but the lo­ca­tion was not Khara-san’s stu­dio. I was or­dered, “Come to Atami!” and I was led away as though I were be­ing ab­duct­ed. It’s as one ex­pects from “Eva”, right? (laugh)

— That was the “Atami Re­treat”, right?

Enoki­do: When I asked, “Why Atami?” I was an­swered, “If we are to arrange a proper meet­ing, we should go where the food is de­li­cious”. That’s a very An­no-like pro­pos­al. As the script had al­ready been writ­ten, there were not sup­posed to be any ma­jor changes, and so I had thought that when I sent the memo, that would be it. When we be­gan the “Atami Re­treat” on Oc­to­ber 31st, I was won­der­ing what on earth was go­ing on.

Part 2


The Over­pow­er­ing Char­ac­ters of Rei and Asuka

— So big changes were be­ing in­tended at Ata­mi.

Enoki­do: The truth is, the day be­fore I went to Atami, I re­ceived a call from (Toshimichi) Ot­suk­i-san, and I was told that they would leave the con­tent alone, and there was only one mat­ter they wanted to pur­sue. At that time, based on the cur­rent screen­play, the film was pro­jected to run be­tween 130 and 140 min­utes, and the aim was to re­duce it to less than 120.

— Be­sides your­self, who were the mem­bers of the re­treat?

Enoki­do: There were the di­rec­tors, An­no-san, Tsu­ru­mak­i-san, and Masayuk­i-san, as well as (Ikki) Todor­oki-san, who was per­form­ing sec­re­tar­ial du­ties.

— So you be­gin the Atami Re­treat with the as­sump­tion that you would be deep­en­ing Mar­i’s char­ac­ter a lit­tle and fine-tun­ing the screen­play to re­duce the length of the film, but what was the re­al­i­ty?

Enoki­do: Con­cern­ing the mat­ter of strength­en­ing Mar­i’s char­ac­ter, An­no-san had al­ready been ask­ing me if I had any ideas, so I started to in­ves­ti­gate the prob­lem. How­ev­er, as I worked through it, the two­some “Rei and Asuka” was such a pow­er­ful com­bi­na­tion that they seemed to stand in the way. When I tried to in­ves­ti­gate what made this pair so strong, I re­al­ized that this com­bi­na­tion fol­lowed the ar­che­type of the so called “harem anime”, and that all the de­sires, lusts, and dreams of young men were bound up in them.

One “type” is the girl who was a child­hood friend, who has al­ways been with you since you were born, and with whom there are no new or strange feel­ings. Rei is es­tab­lished to re­sem­ble a “mother” in some re­spects, and so she pro­duces in young men a feel­ing of dis­tance [from things?] as though they were still half in the womb.33 Now, Asuka’s par­tic­u­lar type is that of the girl who comes from a for­eign coun­try. This also pro­duces a very good feel­ing. Prob­a­bly it is the male in­stinct to think, in some re­spects, that girls from an­other world are bet­ter than girls who are fa­mil­iar and close to hand (laugh­s).

— Cer­tain­ly, if we as­sume that there is a male in­stinct to “spread” DNA, or prop­a­gate the species by mix­ing het­ero­ge­neous el­e­ments.

Enoki­do: The sad­ness and hap­pi­ness of young men is bound up in the fact that they al­ways pos­sess these two con­tra­dic­tory wish­es. The so-called “Harem Anime” genre is for the most part in­tended to sat­isfy these de­sires. In “Uru­sei Yat­sura”, Shi­nobu is the Japan­ese girl who was one’s child­hood friend and al­ways by one’s side, and Lum is the “alien girl”. We say “alien”, but [such char­ac­ters] per­haps [have] an “Amer­i­can” im­age. Rei and Asuka ex­actly fit the pat­tern of this “per­fect lineup”.

Now, com­ing up with a plan as re­gards the third girl who must com­pete with this “ul­ti­mate com­bi­na­tion” seemed to me a very diffi­cult job. In ad­di­tion, Di­rec­tor Anno had not, up to this point, de­vel­oped any­thing him­self, but, ex­press­ing the de­sire for a com­pletely new char­ac­ter, had left Mar­i’s de­vel­op­ment to oth­ers.

This be­ing the case, my first pro­posal for an ad­di­tional type was a Sap­phire (from [Tezuka Os­amu’s] Princess Knight) type. If Rei and Asuka are com­pletely differ­ent types, I won­dered if a “neu­tral”, light­hearted type who bat­tles with an “in­no­cent” im­age would be good. At this point, though An­no-san agreed that it would be good, he thought a Wato (Chiyoko) type (from [Tezuka’s] The Three­-Eyed One) would be more re­al­is­tic, and he got quite ex­cited about it.

How­ev­er, Tsu­ru­mak­i-san, who had been lis­ten­ing near­by, was look­ing at us with a dis­tant ex­pres­sion. It looked as though he was think­ing, “It’s a pleas­ant con­ver­sa­tion [for you], but just who is go­ing to be sad­dled with the diffi­culty of plac­ing that char­ac­ter in the world of Eva?” (laughs) I think the re­sult of fi­nal­iz­ing Mar­i’s ap­peal was that Tsu­ru­mak­i-san was made to suffer with sto­ry­boards.

— Since view­ers were heav­ily an­tic­i­pat­ing a new char­ac­ter from the first film’s pre­view, you want to give Mari more to do; was that the at­mos­phere [at Atami]?

Enoki­do: As we had many con­ver­sa­tions re­lat­ing to Mari, I think it was. As for other im­ages, there was the part of a Miko-san [shrine maid­en] chan­nel­ing the gods. She is not “prac­ti­cal” like Asuka, but thinks about “deep” things, like some­one who some­how can see mys­te­ri­ous things like those con­nected with the gods. She is not “un­worldly” to Rei’s ex­tent and she talks a lot. As noth­ing had yet so­lid­i­fied, we had these sorts of dis­cus­sions about ideas.

— I have a feel­ing that those ideas in­flu­enced the fi­nal film. What other dis­cus­sions did you have about Mari?

Enoki­do: We did­n’t just dis­cuss her char­ac­ter traits, but we were also tan­gled up in dis­cussing to what ex­tent she should ap­pear in the film. I re­mem­ber that this caused every­one a great deal of dis­tress. If we wanted to in­crease her ap­pear­ances we could, but, be­cause we were lim­ited by the run­ning time of the film, the num­ber of scenes de­pict­ing the ac­tiv­ity of other char­ac­ters would be re­duced. Even watch­ing the com­pleted film, there are se­lec­tions we made at the last minute. If we added more Mari, we would have to fur­ther cut strong scenes in­volv­ing Rei and Asuka, but if we did­n’t, then there would have been no point to putting Mari in the sec­ond film [to be­gin with]. In the end I think we were im­pressed with her char­ac­ter and have high ex­pec­ta­tions for her in the fu­ture.

— In the orig­i­nal sce­nario Mari was the daugh­ter of a dis­tin­guished Eng­lish fam­ily who kept dogs and cats, and so on; what were the cir­cum­stances [re­lat­ing to that]?

Enoki­do: Speak­ing of that, I also re­mem­ber con­ver­sa­tions like, “What if we gave her tat­toos of the names of all the pets she’s kept up un­til now?” For ex­am­ple, we would in­sert a bath scene where we see the area from her chest to her stom­ach is com­pletely cov­ered in tat­toos. If she gets asked, “Why do you have them?” she’d an­swer some­thing like, “They’re the names of all my pets that have died up un­til now. The tat­toos en­sure I don’t for­get them, and that they still ‘live’ with me”.

— That’s a strik­ing char­ac­ter trait.

Enoki­do: Did this de­vel­op­ment sur­vive or die off? Be­cause Mari has­n’t un­dressed yet, no­body knows (laugh­s). With things like this, we tried too hard to de­velop Mar­i’s char­ac­ter traits; when I think back on it, we were only dis­cussing “forced” or “ab­surd” things. In ask­ing “how can we beat Rei or Asuka?” we had a ten­dency to get a lit­tle bit too much into an “im­pact con­test”.

— After all, if you want to in­sert Mari some­where, you have to leave out Rei or Asu­ka. We also heard about this diffi­culty from Tsu­ru­mak­i-san.

Enoki­do: There were ver­sions of the un­fin­ished screen­play where Mari ap­pears only at the be­gin­ning, and does­n’t par­tic­i­pate in the bat­tle at the end.

Part 3


Board­ing ‘Eva’ Again After Six­teen Years

— This memo34 you put out, with what kind of feel­ing was it made use of?

Enoki­do: That was mainly a list of scenes to be cut. At that time we were still won­der­ing whether scenes like the pi­lots go­ing to eat Ra­men to­gether should be left in. I not only par­tic­i­pated in the orig­i­nal TV se­ries but watched it as a fan, so I knew which scenes were my fa­vorites. How­ev­er, as far as the film was con­cerned, I thought it was best to fo­cus on Shin­ji-kun’s scenes. In ad­di­tion, I would com­ply with (the pro­duc­er) Ot­suk­i’s or­der to bring the film un­der 120 min­utes. There­fore, I rapidly cut se­quences which, al­though fa­mous, did not have a strong re­la­tion to the main sto­ry. How­ev­er, as I did this every­one nat­u­rally saw fa­vorite scenes be­ing cut, one by one, and be­cause of this I was be­com­ing in­creas­ingly shut out by the group (laugh­s). For ex­am­ple, An­no-san lost his fa­vorite Mis­ato scene…

— Which Mis­ato scene?

Enoki­do: There were many scenes at the start of the script show­ing a deeper friend­ship be­tween Mis­ato, Rit­suko, and Kaji that were dis­card­ed. They were “film-like” scenes and, from the dra­matic per­spec­tive, very good; how­ev­er, be­cause I thought it was best to or­ga­nize the film around Shin­ji, I pro­posed that they be cut. Be­cause Anno is the chief di­rec­tor, if he hates a cut he can pre­vent it by say­ing “I want that scene to stay”. How­ev­er, he does­n’t do so. Nev­er­the­less, when he’s dis­pleased the at­mos­phere be­comes very op­pres­sive (laugh­s).

Fur­ther­more, when even Tsu­ru­mak­i-san, the one per­son I ex­pected to sup­port me, started say­ing things like “I’m an Asuka fan, and I won’t be happy if this scene gets cut”, I had a feel­ing like, “Huh?” (laugh­s). At that time, Masayuk­i-san came to my res­cue, say­ing “Look, we should just do as Enoki­do-san says, okay?” I had the im­pres­sion that I had just barely kept my place [at Atami] (laugh­s). Masayuki prob­a­bly de­cided to bring “bal­ance” to the ses­sions (laugh­s).

— It was diffi­cult, was­n’t it? (laughs)

Enoki­do: On­ly, once we had cut a few sce­nes, nat­u­rally the next prob­lem was the op­po­site one; ow­ing to the cuts you could be­gin to see gaps de­tract­ing from the or­ga­ni­za­tion of the whole. As these gaps arose from cuts I had made, nat­u­rally I, as the per­son re­spon­si­ble, had to fix them. For ex­am­ple, while in the first half of the film Asuka ap­pears as a char­ac­ter who strongly re­pels oth­ers, in the sec­ond half she be­comes a lit­tle kinder, and de­vel­ops into a char­ac­ter who is con­cerned with Shin­ji’s feel­ings. This de­vel­op­ment is cru­cial, but I had a feel­ing that, due to my ex­ces­sive cuts, the ba­sis for this change be­came too thin. Try­ing to make up for that loss, I had the idea for a scene where Asuka, un­able to bear her lone­li­ness, en­ters, un­in­vit­ed, the room of the sleep­ing Shin­ji.35 The scene used in the film was trans­lated from the con­cept al­most ex­act­ly. By in­sert­ing this scene, it seemed likely that some­thing of a con­nec­tion be­tween the “first half” Asuka and the “sec­ond half” Asuka could be skill­fully es­tab­lished.

Be­cause I had bro­ken off my jour­ney aboard the TV se­ries in the mid­dle of the voy­age, this time I had the priv­i­lege of board­ing the “New The­atri­cal Edi­tion” in the mid­dle of the voy­age, and I have the pro­found im­pres­sion that Eva, [for me,] is fi­nally con­nected by a sin­gle line. I had the priv­i­lege of a rare per­sonal ex­pe­ri­ence of which few other ex­am­ples ex­ist (s­miles).

— There’s not many sto­ries of peo­ple bridg­ing a gap of ten years or more.

Enoki­do: Near the be­gin­ning of “Break”, Asuka says: “It’s not just the color that’s differ­ent. (…) This is the world’s first ‘true’ Evan­ge­lion, de­signed for real com­bat”. 16 years ago I wrote those lines of di­a­logue for episode eight of the tele­vi­sion se­ries. When I heard those lines spo­ken in the movie, I was so over­come with emo­tion I could­n’t speak. There were two sides to the feel­ing: “At last, the line is con­nected”, and “The jour­ney is­n’t over” (s­miles). I have the im­pres­sion that the train I de­parted from has re­turned as a high­-speed ex­press, and, just as be­fore, I am a pas­sen­ger once more (s­miles).

Enokido memos


Memo 1

[‘The first memo is a “group memo” taken down by Ikki Todor­oki on the third day of the Atami re­treat and con­tains a list of all the scenes ex­pected to re­main in the script. There are some in­ter­est­ing differ­ences be­tween this and the fi­nal film. The fi­nal scene ap­pears to be a syn­the­sis of the orig­i­nal Rei “sui­cide scene” and the “Shinji saves Rei” sce­nario.’]

"Evangelion New Theatrical Edition: Break" Screenplay Retreat Memo
2007/10/31--11/2 Atami

"Break" Outline

North Pole: Mari/Unit-05 versus the 3rd Angel

[On Lake ??]: Asuka/Unit-02 versus the 7th Angel (Main Staff Titles)

~ Main Title ~

- Graveyard: Gendo and Shinji visit Yui's grave
Rei's appearance in Gendo's VTOL aircraft.
Shinji returns in Misato's car. Regarding Operation Yashima: "Your father appreciates you, too".
Shinji recognizes Misato's concern.

- Navy port? : Arrival of Unit-02
Misato and Shinji returning from Yui's grave.
Appearance of Mari as Unit-02's backup pilot.
Appearance of Kaji.

- Depiction of everyday life
Kaji and Ritsuko.
Asuka and Mari become part of Shinji's class.
Asuka, Shinji, and Misato's daily life together. A conversation about Misato's scar and Second Impact?
Mari living at Hikari's house.

- Nerv HQ: Synchro Test
Mari's synchro rate exceeds Asuka's.

- The Moon: Gendo and Fuyutsuki observing Unit-06
Meeting with Kaworu.

- Aquarium: Shinji, Asuka, Mari, Hikari, Touji, Kensuke, Kaji
Everyone eats bentos made by Mari and Hikari.
Rei understands the value of cooking.
Asuka is isolated.
Shinji calls Gendo but doesn't get through.
Kaji tells Shinji about Second Impact.

- Spaceship returning from the moon: Gendo and Fuyutsuki viewing the Earth's tragic appearance

- Attack of the 8th Angel
Mari selected as Unit-02's pilot. She is injured from the battle with the 3rd Angel,
but instead of declining, she accepts.
Asuka is shocked.
Shinji asks Mari why she pilots. Mari talks about "severe reality".
A confrontation between Misato and Ritsuko concerning the pilots.

- Battle with the 8th Angel: A victory where Unit-01 takes the leading role
Shinji is praised by Gendo.
"What Misato said was true". Shinji and Misato make eye contact.
Unit-00 and Unit-02 are partly damaged.

- Depiction of everyday life
Conversation between Rei and Shinji. "You seemed like a mother".
Shinji makes Bentos for everybody. Rei, Hikari, Mari, and Asuka eating them.
Conversation between Touji and Shinji. "You've changed".
Rei's room. "Thank you. Words of gratitude. The first time I've used them".

- Rei's tank---A meal with the commander
Rei in the tank. Gendo and Ritsuko, "Rei no Kankei". [Rei's connection? A conversation connected with Rei??]
Rei invites Gendo to a dinner party with Shinji.

- Nerv HQ Lounge---Watermelon Patch
Conversation between Kaji and Shinji.
"Something good happened?" "Somewhat". "You gained some self-confidence?" "A little bit".

- Rei's room---School
Rei practicing cooking.

~ Eyecatch ~

- Misato's Apartment
Asuka making Miso soup. She knows about Rei's plans for her dinner party.

- Unit-04's disappearance
Explanation of Eva's relation to world affairs.
Discussion regarding the Unit-03 activation experiment.

- Preparation for the Unit-03 activation experiment
Unit-02 goes to Sasebo (is this necessary?)
Gendo has the dummy plug installed in Unit-01. Conversation between Maya and Ritsuko.

- Who is the pilot of Unit-03?
Unit-03's activation on the same day Rei plans to have her dinner party.
Asuka understands Rei's feelings for Shinji.
Asuka declares herself a candidate to pilot Unit-03.
Rei phones Asuka "Thank you".
Touji's sister leaving the hospital.

- Unit-03 activation experiment
Conversation between Asuka and Misato. "It's a nice feeling to talk to someone".
Unit-03 taken over by the 9th Angel.

- Battle against Unit-03
Unit-01's dummy plug is installed.
Kaworu watching what happens to Asuka (アスカの成り行きを見ているカヲル).
Shinji refusing to destroy Unit-03 ("I won't do anything" Shinji)
Unit-01 switches over to the dummy system.
Unit-01 crushes Unit-03's entry plug. Asuka, terribly injured.

- Nerv Headquarters
A rebellious Shinji remains inside Unit-01.
Shinji faints due to increased LCL pressure. Unit-01's power stopped.

- Hospital
Rei in the lobby holding a Bento box.
Shinji's dream. "I couldn't forgive my father's betrayal". And so on.

- Nerv Command Room
Conversation between Shinji and Gendo. "I don't want to pilot Eva anymore".

- Shinji leaves Nerv
Hikari, Kensuke, Touji call Shinji.
Ritsuko talking to someone. "Rei, she didn't cry".
Shinji's DAT player abandoned in a garbage container.
Rei's room, abandoned cooking utensils.

- Considering the Location (is the scene itself necessary?)
Conversation between a departing Shinji and Misato. Conversation with Mari?

- 10th Angel Attacks
Nerv battles an Angel that invades the Geofront. The Angel shrugs off every attack.

- Shelter---?
Shinji sees the tragedy of the ordinary people (Nerv staff members?).

- Nerv Command Center
Unit-01 refuses the dummy plug. Gendo facing the cage.

- Watermelon Patch
Conversation between Mari and Shinji. (At the time of the Unit-03 affair, protect Asuka or
kill her and protect the world, there was nothing you could do).

- 10th Angel versus Unit-00
Unit-00 plunges forward with a bomb. Unit-00 is seriously damaged and can no longer fight.
The Angel eats Unit-00. In headquarters, Rei's signal vanishes.

- Watermelon Patch / Geofront
Shinji decides and stars running. Shinji struggles over rubble and other obstacles.

- Nerv Headquarters
The Angel penetrates into headquarters.
Gendo faces a wounded Shinji covered with blood.
"Let me pilot".

- 10th Angel versus Unit-01 (1)
Eva-01 plunges into the command Center.
Eva-01 is shot into the Geofront and attempts to tear Unit-00 apart from the Angel.

- Angel becomes the "corroding type"
Rei's heart wants to be one with Shinji. Unit-00 (taken in by the Angel) corrodes Unit-01.
Unit-01 is accepting and nonresistant. "So you came to trust Rei that deeply, Shinji-kun?"
[そんなにレイに心を許していたのね, シンジ君. In the storyboard, そんなに is そんなにまで
and the line is spoken by Ritsuko.]
Unit-01 is near its power limit.
Rei begins to self-destruct.

- 10th Angel versus Unit-01 (2)
Unit-01's power limit reached.
Unit-01 goes berserk.
400% synchro rate, furious Shinji. Unit-01 plunges its body (arm?) into the Angel. In the same way,
Shinji stretches out his arm inside the entry plug. Rei's hand materializes;
when Shinji pulls her out, her body materializes.
The berserk doesn't stop; Unit-01 transforms into a giant of light.
Unit-01 destroys the Angel with overwhelming power.

- Unit-06 Arrives
Suddenly, a spear flies in. Unit-01's berserk is halted.
Unit-06 enters the atmosphere. Removes Unit-01's entry plug.
Fuyutsuki and Gendo's conversation. "Finally, he has come". "From here, everything begins".
The reunion of Kaworu and Shinji.

~ To be continued ~

Concerning Mari:

- A character like Wato-san from "The Three-Eyed One".
The type who will suddenly initiate physical contact.
"Boku" character
She has very serious thoughts. The most adult of all the pilots.

- Mari lives together with Hikari in Hikari's house.
  They are close friends (Asuka's position in the previous work).
  They make Bentos together, and so on.
- She has the names of the pets she has kept tattooed along her back.

- Asuka thinks Mari is just the backup pilot for Unit-02.
She calls Mari "Hoketsu" [substitute].

Other things:

- Concerning the battle with 8th Angel.
At the time of the operation, Unit-02 flies in via transport?
The 8th Angel materializes from a vortex of clouds resembling the eye of a typhoon.

- When the dummy plug system is put into operation, the dummy plug's "human model" [ヒト型]
  pins down Shinji's body so he can't escape.


Participants: Hideaki ANNO, MASAYUKI, Kazuya TSURUMAKI, Yōji ENOKIDO, Ikki TODOROKI.
Memo taken down by: Ikki TODOROKI.

Memo 2

[‘The sec­ond memo is the one re­ferred to in the in­ter­view above and is an at­tempt by Enokido to “de­velop” the Asuka-Mari ri­val­ry. Only four pages of this memo are re­pro­duced.’]

Evangelion New Theatrical Edition: Break
Organizational Plan Draft
2007/10/13 Yōji ENOKIDO

The major elements of the story are fundamentally unchanged.
Mari and Asuka's development will be slightly altered.

At the beginning, after the battle with the Angel at the Arctic Branch,
Mari and Kaji return together to Japan.

On the way, Mari destroys an Angel with Unit-02.

Asuka arrives separately, at the same time as Mari and Kaji.
As both Asuka and Mari are designated pilots of Unit-02, they have a rivalry.
Because Asuka believes that she is unquestionably the true pilot and Mari is a spare,
she is especially strongly attached to Unit-02.
Mari is more composed than Asuka, and appears to be interested in Shinji instead.

After the synchro test results, it is decided that Mari is to be Unit-02's true pilot.
Asuka is shocked.
When the Angel that falls from the sky is defeated, Mari is piloting.
The operation succeeds, but Unit-02 is heavily damaged.

Unit-03 arrives in Japan, and Asuka is chosen as the pilot.
Asuka is delighted. But there is a tragedy.

When Shinji revolts against Gendou and abandons Eva, Mari persuades him to pilot again.

- "Old" North Pole (Pages 1-2)
The scene by itself is not changed. Only:
One thing pertaining to Mari's character development.
Mari is portrayed as the exclusive pilot of provisional Evangelion Unit-05,
but Unit-05 is in the care of the Arctic Base; conversely,
it is to be clearly indicated that she is there temporarily to safeguard the third angel's seal,
and was originally the pilot of Unit-02.
In brief, in this work Asuka and Mari become rivals to pilot Unit-02.
In this case, it's probably necessary to slightly alter scenes,
adding lines like "you're not much like Asuka-chan".

- Pacific Ocean---Old Ito-Area Waters (Pages 2-3)
One is reminded of a return to the naval fleet transport scene from Episode 8,
but the attacking angel is different.
Unit-02 stands on the deck of a ship to meet the angel's attack.
Kaji gazes at the frame of Unit-02, shining deep crimson beneath the open sky.
But, the pilot in the cockpit---is Mari.
Proceeding from the opening scene, Kaji accompanies Mari on her transfer.
So Asuka is not aboard the naval fleet.
Mari destroys the angel with Unit-02.

- The military transport vessel arrives in port (Pages 3-4)
Shinji, Touji, and Kensuke watch Evangelion Unit-02 arriving.
Asuka arrives via a VTOL aircraft (or something similar).
She arrives by herself from Germany.
Asuka, who is convinced she is the exclusive pilot of Unit-02,
boasts to Shinji and his friends about Unit-02 (as in the script).
But, Asuka is shocked when she sees Mari emerge wearing Unit-02's plug suit.
"You used Unit-02 without my permission‽"
Furthermore, when she sees Mari's behaviour with Kaji, she is shocked once again.

- At school---Year 2 Class A (Page 4)
Asuka and Mari are moving into their new places.
Asuka introduces herself as "The true pilot of Evangelion Unit-02".
Meanwhile, Mari's reaction to seeing Shinji.

- At school---By the school gate (Page 6)
Asuka no longer becomes friends with Hikari.
Or, somehow worried about Asuka, Hikari is about to call out to her,
but she is interrupted by Mari calling out to Hikari, etc.

- (Pages 7-8, in and around the scene where Asuka moves into Misato's place --)
Insert a scene with Mari living at Hikari's house.
"I don't like living alone. (For this reason she kept many cats and dogs, etc.)"
"I already have two sisters living here, so one more person doesn't matter".
Mari becomes friends with Hikari.
In short, by becoming the pilot of Unit-02, arriving with Kaji, becoming friends with Hikari,
and so on, Mari usurps Asuka's position in this world.
Mari herself has no evil intention, but Asuka is overtaken.
It's not related to the main story, but if we insert a scene with Hikari's sisters in pajamas
or changing clothes, we can hope for the
"economic result of the African Campaign in Gundam" (ガンダムのアフリカ戦線経済結果).

- Facility for the Preservation of Saltwater Sea-life (Page 8 onwards)
Mari also comes along.
Hikari and Mari have already become intimate friends.
Hikari and Mari have made an O-bentou together, and so on.
* * *
Shinji has been wondering about Asuka and her desire to pilot Eva.
This is because he truly did not want to pilot Eva.

- The Falling Angel (Page 12 onwards)
The Asuka and Mari Synchro Test scene is inserted here. Mari's synchro rate is higher.
As in the TV version, Asuka is on her period. (Despite absolutely not wanting children)
The operation to destroy the falling angel begins.
It is decided that Rei will pilot Unit-00, Shinji will pilot Unit-01, and Mari will pilot Unit-02.
Asuka is shocked.

- Rei and Asuka in the Elevator (advancing the scene on page 18)
Mari is present.
Rei comments on Asuka's low synchro rate.
Asuka becomes furious.

[Pages 4-5 excluded]


- Watermelon Field (Page 47)
The intense fight between the angel and Unit-00.
In a somewhat isolated place, so Shinji just stands and stares at the fight.
He stands in Kaji's watermelon field.
Mari arrives at the watermelon field.
Shinji and Mari meet and stare at one another.
In the background the battle between Unit-00 and the angel continues.
"Why don't you fight? Aside from you no one can do anything; only you can do something, right?"
"... so, you got angry because Asuka was hurt? You're angry at the adults who sacrificed Asuka?
You've just rebelled against the ways of adults?
You've just rebelled against your father?"
"If you don't fight, everybody dies. In the end, both Asuka and Rei will die...".
* * *
Unit-00 battle scene. Rei engaging in a difficult battle.
* * *
"Even if Commander Ikari sacrificed Asuka, he did it to protect everyone... but you won't even do that?"
Suddenly Shinji pushes Mari to the ground. (Or she possibly collapses as a result of an explosion?)
One [or more?] watermelon[s] bounce[s] and break[s] apart.
The red juices stain both of their bodies.
"These are the watermelons Kaji was raising", Shinji mutters.
"They were important to him. But I have no important memories or anything else important to me..".
* * *
Reflection insert (page 19 onwards).
Gendou: Human beings live on by forgetting their memories, but there are some things one must not erase.
* * *
"Just think about it..". Mari says.
"Think about it a little. Maybe, right now, there's nothing important and worth protecting
 for you in this world. But..".
"! (Surprised Shinji)"
Mari now:
A. Kisses Shinji

[All pages after 6 excluded]

Kazuya Tsurumaki



“The CRC 2.0 Tsu­ru­maki in­ter­view is ac­tu­al­ly, I be­lieve, a re­vised and ex­panded ver­sion of an in­ter­view in­cluded in the orig­i­nal Eva 2.0 the­atri­cal pro­gram, in­clud­ing ma­te­r­ial from an ad­di­tion­al, later in­ter­view.”

Part 1


A ma­jor turn­ing point fol­low­ing the ‘Pre­lude’ pre­miere36

— To be­gin with, I’d like to speak with you for the pro­gram to be dis­trib­uted be­fore the pre­miere. Ac­cord­ing to Chief Di­rec­tor An­no’s in­ten­tion, it was de­cided that we would “pub­lish an in­ter­view with Makki en­ti­tled ‘the man who de­stroyed Eva.’”37 Be­fore we be­gin, I’d first like to con­firm that you were made aware of that in­ten­tion.

Tsu­ru­maki: This seems sus­pi­cious (laugh­s). As far as mak­ing me into “the crim­i­nal re­spon­si­ble for de­stroy­ing [E­va]” is con­cerned, I’ll re­sist with all my might.

— On­ly, if we look at “Break” as a de­stroyed Eva, surely every­one would want to know the de­tails of how and why this hap­pened.38

Tsu­ru­maki: As far as [the ti­tle] “Break” is con­cerned, An­no-san prob­a­bly dis­cov­ered a new rea­son for it part of the way through. As usu­al. Al­though, I think it would have been bet­ter if An­no-san had taken the lead in de­stroy­ing [E­va] him­self. [It would surely have been diffi­cult for him to de­stroy it. I think he well un­der­stood that, and had no choice [but to do as he did].39] How­ev­er, it was not my­self alone who de­stroyed Eva. Even Masayuk­i-san, or Sadamo­to-san, who writes the man­ga, would have been fine [for the in­ter­view].

— This suc­cess­ful “de­struc­tion” was un­ex­pect­edly the core [of the film]. So [the con­cep­tion of] a “jo—ha—kyuu” [序破急] struc­ture where you would be­gin de­stroy­ing Eva in the sec­ond part was not present from the be­gin­ning?

Tsu­ru­maki: In the ini­tial stages we thought more in terms of a re­cap or sum­mary film; we did­n’t think that we would “break” [any­thing]. We de­cided upon the sub­ti­tles “jo—ha—kyuu” them­selves rel­a­tively early on. They only had the mean­ing “1, 2, 3”—at the time I did­n’t think that “ha” [“Break”] had any spe­cial sig­nifi­cance. The de­vel­op­ment of the story of “Break” was al­ready un­der­way be­fore we started work on “Pre­lude”.40

— I have the im­pres­sion that the de­vel­op­ment of “Pre­lude” and “Break” be­gan at the same time.

Tsu­ru­maki: Right. We de­cid­ed, with rel­a­tively few ob­jec­tions, that we would bring “Pre­lude” to a cli­max with episode six of the TV se­ries, and im­me­di­ately after that we be­gan de­vel­op­ing the story of “Break”. How­ev­er, work on “Pre­lude” be­came in­creas­ingly hec­tic, so we de­cided to just fo­cus on mak­ing “Pre­lude” first. We re­turned to “Break” once we had just about fin­ished “Pre­lude”.

— For my part, I was read­ing through the script for “Break” around the time “Pre­lude” was com­pleted (the lat­ter part of Au­gust 2007). Al­so, (Sh­in­ji) Higuchi-san was sup­posed to have drawn the sto­ry­boards for “Break” that sum­mer. At this point, the con­tents [of the film] are prob­a­bly quite differ­ent [than they were, at that point].

Tsu­ru­maki: It would turn out that more than just the plot would be de­vel­oped fur­ther. In any case, after the pre­miere of “Pre­lude”, An­no-san pro­posed that we in­clude more of the new char­ac­ter, Mari, and it was de­cided that we would re­visit the script. My im­pres­sion was that “Pre­lude” was re­ceived more fa­vor­ably than ex­pect­ed; fur­ther­more, the pre­view for the next film was very well re­ceived. So, I think An­no-san prob­a­bly thought, “I want to give the view­ers more ser­vice”. Prob­a­bly, [his] spe­cific means [of do­ing that] was to place Mari more promi­nently [in the film].

— Con­sid­er­ing An­no’s “spirit of ser­vice”, that would nat­u­rally be the case, right? So, that would lead to [An­no] in­creas­ing the num­ber of Mar­i’s ap­pear­ances?

Tsu­ru­maki: The truth is, at the ear­li­est stage of plan­ning, Mari was such a char­ac­ter that, in the ex­treme case, if she had­n’t spo­ken at all, it would have been okay. For ex­am­ple, Mis­ato just read­ing the ma­te­ri­als on her, [and say­ing] “It seems that Unit-05 was in Hong Kong and had a bat­tle with an an­gel. The pi­lot was this per­son”—would have been fine, I think…

— In that case, she would be­come an amaz­ingly weak char­ac­ter.

Tsu­ru­maki: Yeah. The ap­pear­ance of a new char­ac­ter and Eva Unit-05 was re­quested by ex­ec­u­tive pro­ducer (Toshimichi) Ot­suk­i-san. I think the mo­tive was a com­mer­cial one—to strengthen the ap­peal of the film.41

— Sure­ly, the new films them­selves be­come a bur­den to the ex­tent they rep­re­sent a story that pre­ex­ists the new char­ac­ter; you had to “cre­ate care­fully”, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: [Yes,] be­cause at first we in­tended [sim­ply] to sum­ma­rize the orig­i­nal se­ries. For ex­am­ple, the cur­rent struc­ture in which the new char­ac­ter is ac­tively in­volved be­fore the main ti­tles was put in place at that stage in the film’s plot [de­vel­op­men­t]. In ad­di­tion, [she] would ap­pear only once more, watch­ing the bat­tle just be­fore the cli­max. That was the ex­tent to which she ap­peared.

— So, she was hardly re­lated to the char­ac­ters of the orig­i­nal sto­ry.

Tsu­ru­maki: It’s An­no-san’s usual method. He al­lows pos­si­bil­i­ties to re­main with­out mak­ing up his mind. By no means have things been de­cid­ed. Be­cause, if he was bound to a de­ci­sion, he would­n’t be able to do any­thing but that. He was still un­de­cided about how to han­dle her, and at that time he prob­a­bly thought that in­tro­duc­ing her but leav­ing her with­out defi­nite re­la­tions [to any­thing] would be safe for the mo­ment.

— I see. In a differ­ent set of cir­cum­stances,42 I would also have thought, “As ex­pect­ed, the sto­ry­line of Eva is quite fixed, and new in­ter­ven­tions are not pos­si­ble”.

Tsu­ru­maki: Nat­u­ral­ly. There­fore, dar­ing to have her ap­pear at the core of the sto­ry, even more, bring­ing her close to the cen­ter of the dra­ma—in short, we in­tended to make her a char­ac­ter who would change the sto­ry. That was the ma­jor shift fol­low­ing the pre­miere of “Pre­lude”.

Part 2

What oc­curred with the in­crease of Mar­i’s scenes43

— The re­sult be­ing that [the sto­ry] would be­come in­creas­ingly differ­ent from the script that you had pre­pared?

Tsu­ru­maki: We were al­most start­ing every­thing over again. We had hardly thought about what would be changed, and how it would be changed, in or­der to in­cor­po­rate Mari. It was from that point, I think, that we re­ally be­gan.

— So, the ques­tion of how to de­stroy Eva ends up re­ally be­ing the ques­tion of how to con­nect Mari [to the ex­ist­ing sto­ry].

Tsu­ru­maki: Right. How­ev­er, while we had re­solved to change [the sto­ry], An­no-san had for one rea­son or an­other not thought at all about the el­e­ments of Mar­i’s char­ac­ter. As a re­sult, I was con­tin­u­ally re­quest­ing ex­pla­na­tions in re­gard to them. When I re­quested an ex­pla­na­tion of Mar­i’s char­ac­ter be­fore we be­gan do­ing the sto­ry­boards for the pre-ti­tle se­quence, An­no-san gave me a rather ab­stract, “the­matic” ex­pla­na­tion.

— “The­mat­ic?”

Tsu­ru­maki: It was, “By in­tro­duc­ing Mari, we will de­stroy the world of Eva”. Con­cern­ing this idea of Mari as a char­ac­ter who rep­re­sents the sub­ti­tle “Break”, the ex­pla­na­tion that we would di­rectly project her “the­matic” char­ac­ter traits onto the story was not suffi­cient, so I just smiled and nod­ded. How­ev­er, we were about to draw the sto­ry­boards with­out some­thing es­sen­tial—­Mar­i’s con­crete char­ac­ter was un­de­ter­mined. The re­sult­ing stress would con­tinue for a long time [after that].

— The es­tab­lish­ment of her char­ac­ter—in other words, her per­son­al­i­ty?

Tsu­ru­maki: Is she a girl with a calm de­meanor, or a girl with an in­tense per­son­al­i­ty, or a do­jikko [clumsy girl]? Even that much was­n’t clear. I felt like it changed each time the script was re­vised. Even if the theme of her char­ac­ter was “the de­struc­tion of Eva’s story”, there were nu­mer­ous con­crete ways you could con­ceive of do­ing that. In the ex­treme case, she could “steal” Shinji and de­stroy all his re­la­tion­ships up to that point, or act as a “non­sense” char­ac­ter who would de­stroy the “se­ri­ous” world­view [of Eva]. As there was no trace of a [fixed] method­ol­ogy ac­cord­ing to which she would de­stroy [E­va], the ar­gu­ments con­cern­ing her con­tin­ued end­less­ly.

— Which parts did the ar­gu­ments cen­ter up­on?

Tsu­ru­maki: Cer­tainly Mar­i’s ap­pear­ances had in­creased. Fur­ther­more, if there were scenes where Mari ap­peared by her­self, that was still fine. Even in the early stages of the plot[’s de­vel­op­men­t], we did­n’t re­ally feel that such scenes were a prob­lem. The diffi­culty lay in her re­la­tion­ships with other char­ac­ters. Es­pe­cial­ly, if we in­tended to por­tray a re­la­tion­ship be­tween Shinji and Mari, it would en­tail strange things hap­pen­ing. At one point she would have Rei Ayanami’s role in re­la­tion to Shin­ji, at an­other point Asuka’s, at an­other point Mis­ato’s. There was a sense that her char­ac­ter was chang­ing de­pend­ing upon the cir­cum­stances of each scene. In the first place, if it’s Rei’s role, Rei her­self can do it, and if it’s Asuka’s role, Asuka her­self can do it. To the ex­tent that this newly ar­rived char­ac­ter, Mari, is just par­tially sub­sti­tut­ing for roles that other peo­ple have car­ried out up un­til now, the story it­self is re­ally un­changed. My im­pres­sion was, if that’s go­ing to be the case, Mari is prob­a­bly not need­ed.

Be­cause a new char­ac­ter is in­tro­duced, nat­u­ral­ly, it’s al­ready be­come a differ­ent sto­ry, but if we step back and look at it, al­most noth­ing has changed. That’s use­less. As a re­sult, on one oc­ca­sion An­no-san handed off this prob­lem to [Yōji] Enoki­do-san. Ba­si­cal­ly, he told [Enoki­do] that he wanted to cre­ate a plot in which Mar­i’s char­ac­ter was more de­vel­oped. It’s not a brief sto­ry; I re­mem­ber think­ing that it was quite a se­ri­ous sit­u­a­tion. For my part, be­cause I thought the fact that An­no-san was writ­ing the scripts him­self44 was an im­por­tant char­ac­ter­is­tic of the new films, it [seemed] all the more [se­ri­ous]. Par­tially be­cause of that, Enoki­do-san’s po­si­tion, it seemed, was that he would ab­solutely not sub­mit plots or scripts, but [on­ly] ideas. What came out of this was an ex­tremely ec­cen­tric, in­ter­est­ing, Enoki­do-like idea. In short, [Enoki­do] proac­tively made use of the fact that Mari could not sim­ply act as a sub­sti­tute.

— In spe­cific terms, how did [Enoki­do] in­tend [Mari] to act?

Tsu­ru­maki: To put it sim­ply, it was an idea where Mari com­pletely usurped Asuka’s role. For ex­am­ple, Asuka is un­able to pi­lot Unit-02, be­cause Mari is con­stantly get­ting to things be­fore Asu­ka. Mari even thrusts her­self into the mid­dle of the re­la­tion­ship be­tween Shinji and Asuka; [A­suka is] com­pletely thwart­ed. Even though Asuka makes a great effort to ful­fill the role she played at the time of the TV se­ries, be­cause Mari is al­ways there it be­comes im­pos­si­ble for her to do it; some­thing like that.

— That’s in­ter­est­ing.

Tsu­ru­maki: The re­ac­tion of Asuka fans to it would prob­a­bly be ter­ri­fy­ing (laugh­s). Be­cause, in Enoki­do’s idea, Asuka, thwarted by Mari, is never able to pi­lot Unit-02. There were voices on the staff point­ing out the size of the risk [in­volved], but An­no-san some­how un­der­stood [the idea], say­ing, “Well, I’m go­ing to take that idea and put it in the script”. How­ev­er… [this idea] im­me­di­ately went back to the draw­ing board (laugh­s).45 For ex­am­ple, when Asuka tries to pi­lot Unit-02 at the time of the bat­tle with the eighth an­gel, she is told by Rit­suko, “Mari, the pi­lot who ar­rived on short no­tice from Eu­rope, can pi­lot Unit-02, so you are on standby”. Asuka is mor­ti­fied. That was Enoki­do’s idea, but in An­no-san’s script, he changed it so that the two of them would be pi­lot­ing Unit-02 to­gether (laugh­s).

— “” (laugh­s)?46

Tsu­ru­maki: It’s ex­cus­able to just fo­cus on the good things, but [An­no] was try­ing so hard to please every­body that the story was be­com­ing con­fus­ing. Prob­a­bly An­no-san thought that the story would not change un­less he could deeply con­nect Mari to it, and for this rea­son he tried to place all the re­spon­si­bil­ity for chang­ing the story upon Mari. Nev­er­the­less, con­trary to his in­ten­tions, even though he had tried to in­tro­duce Mari, he was not able to change the sto­ry.

— It’s as though some mys­te­ri­ous, com­pelling force was op­er­at­ing.

Tsu­ru­maki: But, I some­how un­der­stand that every­one ex­pe­ri­ences this. We don’t change [so eas­i­ly], even though we swear, “start­ing to­mor­row, I will change!” (laughs) Be­ing un­able [to change] de­spite know­ing [you should]; that’s some­thing com­mon to every­one. I think, in due time, An­no-san will re­veal the real rea­son [for its ex­is­tence] him­self, but when Masayuk­i-san first did the sto­ry­boards for the bat­tle with the eighth an­gel, the scene where the two pi­lot to­gether was sto­ry­board­ed, based upon the plot [at that time].

— How [did An­no] get them both onto [the Eva]?

Tsu­ru­maki: It’s as though Asuka se­cretly got on ahead of time (laugh­s). It was­n’t just there, [though]. Things like that con­tin­ued to hap­pen al­most en­tirely through­out. So, we were truly in diffi­cul­ty. [An­no] said there would be changes in “Break”, and in prac­tice more than 90% [of the film] was [com­prised of] new sce­nes, but, even though we had taken the trou­ble to pro­duce this new ma­te­ri­al, the story had not changed. Of course the sit­u­a­tions, the char­ac­ters, and the di­a­logue had changed. How­ev­er, if we ex­am­ine the sig­nifi­cance of what was done there, we will get some­thing like, “Eh? This hap­pened in episode xx”, or “This scene [could go] in episode xx”.

— Hmm… It’s as though you re­painted [E­va], but the sense or sig­nifi­cance of the TV se­ries rose to the sur­face from the foun­da­tion.

Tsu­ru­maki: So, it was com­ing to seem like a sum­mary ver­sion made with some slightly new ma­te­r­i­al. A while ago, I had been told that the “Evan­ge­lion” TV se­ries was quite rigidly fixed; it was, I think, cer­tainly like that.47 It seemed like, if you change things in one place, things go badly not only there but else­where as well; a host of de­riv­a­tive prob­lems arise. If you try to fix it, it’s an enor­mous task to make the story con­sis­tent every­where.48

— Even if it goes well, won’t the “spirit” of the orig­i­nal se­ries still end up dwelling there?

Tsu­ru­maki: Yes. This sort of thing con­tin­ued, and for a while we were truly in diffi­cul­ties. I think that was the main rea­son the script could­n’t be fixed, and that as a re­sult [we] spent so much time do­ing sto­ry­boards.

— Even though they were de­lib­er­ated to the point of stag­ing a re­treat for the script, there were some things that just could­n’t be “boiled down”, right?49

Tsu­ru­maki: Well, I think the Atami Re­treat, which Enoki­do-san par­tic­i­pated in, was ex­tremely worth­while. An au­da­cious idea for the last scene, which was al­most all right [as pre­sent­ed], emerged there. That was the de­vel­op­ment, which re­mains now, whereby Shinji res­cues Rei. As far as the film’s cli­max goes, the work to be done after that hardly con­cerned us. The diffi­culty was ar­rang­ing for Mar­i’s in­volve­ment, [which was nec­es­sary] in or­der to bring the story to that point. The most sim­ple so­lu­tion was—just as in the early stages of the sto­ry—to keep Mar­i’s ap­pear­ances to a min­i­mum, to leave her with no re­la­tion­ship with Shinji or Asuka, and for [the sto­ry] to fol­low a course sim­i­lar to the TV se­ries. In the end, this [ap­proach] would go the most smooth­ly.50

— A course lead­ing up to episode 19 of the tele­vi­sion se­ries.51

Tsu­ru­maki: Yes. Strictly speak­ing, the part cor­re­spond­ing to episode 19 in­cor­po­rates parts [of the se­ries] from up to episode 23. Rei self­-de­structs in the TV se­ries; [here] Shinji res­cues her, and she is not made to self­-de­struct. Keep­ing things the same be­sides that was the safest way to do it. How­ev­er, Mari had ap­peared [in the sto­ry], so she some­how had to act; we had to leave a path open for Mari. That was the most stress­ful [part].

Part 4


[In­cor­po­rat­ing] change it­self into the struc­ture of the film

— Set­ting Mari aside, hav­ing Asuka pi­lot Unit-03 was a ma­jor change in “Break”. How was this de­ci­sion made?

Tsu­ru­maki: Just as with Mari, we wanted Asuka to be sig­nifi­cantly in­volved in the sto­ry. Since we de­cided to make the new films we’ve some­how felt mis­giv­ings [about Asuka?]. When we [de­vel­oped] the plot there were many scenes and di­a­logues in­volv­ing Asuka, but we weren’t able to as­sign her a role in the sto­ry. She did­n’t de­ci­sively im­pact Shin­ji, Rei, or the oth­ers. To say it plain­ly, we had the feel­ing that she was be­com­ing some­thing like a char­ac­ter who only “made noise” at the side. Asuka is a cru­cial char­ac­ter, so we wanted to in­volve her more in the sto­ry. She’s a pop­u­lar char­ac­ter, so we hated the idea of her ap­pear­ing as “side en­ter­tain­ment”.

— So how did she be­come linked with the Unit-03 se­quence?

Tsu­ru­maki: Sadamo­to-san’s ad­vice was im­por­tant. There was an ini­tial con­ver­sa­tion where he made the point that, “among Ka­woru, Tou­ji, and Asuka, you will not be able to suffi­ciently de­velop more than two of them, prob­a­bly only one”. Be­cause he had care­fully con­sid­ered his ex­pe­ri­ences putting to­gether the man­ga, I placed great weight on his opin­ion.

— In ac­tu­al­i­ty, the story of Touji and Unit-03 re­mained in the manga ver­sion, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: Yeah. With a man­ga, in a way, you have a great deal of free­dom. For ex­am­ple, you could use an en­tire vol­ume of the manga just for Episode 18 of the TV se­ries, and it should be okay. I my­self re­ally liked Tou­ji’s episode; I think it was good in that it broad­ened the scope of the se­ries, and so I un­der­stand Sadamo­to-san closely fol­low­ing the TV ver­sion in his man­ga. How­ev­er, be­cause a film has to de­velop a “flow” within a lim­ited amount of time, we would­n’t have the space to closely de­velop three char­ac­ters in “Break”. I could pre­dict that, when we po­si­tioned the TV se­ries’ Unit-03 in­ci­dent as a cru­cial, cli­mac­tic episode, we would have no choice but to aban­don por­tray­ing Asuka [as a ma­jor char­ac­ter]. If that hap­pened Asuka’s role in the plot would com­pletely van­ish. More­over, after the Unit-03 in­ci­dent, even the scenes where she does ap­pear were bound to be re­duced. If this is the case, could we sim­ply re­place Touji with Asuka? I tried propos­ing this to An­no-san, in­clud­ing Sadamo­to-san’s views on the mat­ter.

— It seems that, for the film, a great deal de­pended on this de­ter­mi­na­tion. So this plan was ac­cepted with no ob­jec­tions?

Tsu­ru­maki: No, there was con­sid­er­able re­sis­tance from the staff. I think it’s only nat­ur­al. I my­self was afraid of mak­ing such a change. An­no-san, as well, prob­a­bly was­n’t ea­ger to do it at first. Nev­er­the­less, the de­ci­sion about the Unit-03 in­ci­dent had to be made at an early stage.

— I think the re­sult of the plan to have Asuka pi­lot Unit-03 was a point where the new film im­pacts [the au­di­ence] with an im­pres­sion of its char­ac­ter. I won­dered if it was like a sym­bolic procla­ma­tion: “We are mak­ing some­thing differ­ent”.

Tsu­ru­maki: When we be­gan the new films, I won­dered if we could ac­tu­ally cre­ate a film about the con­di­tion of “re­mak­ing” a work. Some­thing like [what hap­pened with] . Film­ing in a jun­gle far from their home coun­try, [hear­ing] a lan­guage they did­n’t un­der­stand, [fol­low­ing] a sched­ule with no end in sight, lack­ing suffi­cient fund­ing; the very cir­cum­stances of a film crew mak­ing a movie about Viet­nam strongly “syn­chro­nized” not only with the men­tal state of the sol­diers who fought in Viet­nam but with an Amer­ica un­able to with­draw from a war that had be­come a “quag­mire”.

So, I won­dered if it was pos­si­ble to de­velop some­thing like “a film about the act it­self of re­mak­ing the same thing over again”. It seems like … changes in the story would be stress­ful for the cre­ators, to be­gin with, but also stress­ful for the char­ac­ters in the film and for the view­ing au­di­ence. I won­dered if it was pos­si­ble to make a film that took all of this into ac­count.

— This “metafic­tional” ap­proach is re­ally in­ter­est­ing. It’s like a kind of “stress con­test” be­tween the cre­ators and the view­ers.

Tsu­ru­maki: So, when I asked An­no-san “How would this be?” he im­me­di­ately replied “No. That’s use­less”. (laughs) It’s cer­tainly a differ­ent di­rec­tion than the “easy-to-un­der­stand en­ter­tain­ment” which we ini­tially aimed at with the new films. So, at that time I just gave it up. Nev­er­the­less, dur­ing the course of its cre­ation “Break” cer­tainly be­came like this…

— I felt like the var­i­ous changes within the story came off as things that you had aimed at from the be­gin­ning. No doubt about it.

Tsu­ru­maki: De­spite peo­ple say­ing “Kaeru Kaeru”, [“change, change”] in re­al­ity things stay the same as be­fore and can­not be changed. It’s the same with the view­ers, who, on the one hand, come to the the­ater an­tic­i­pat­ing changes, and, on the other hand, are pre­pared in ad­vance to com­plain if the di­rec­tion of the changes does­n’t suit them. This sender/receiver re­la­tion­ship ex­ists nat­u­ral­ly. Ob­vi­ous­ly, it’s some­thing that’s both “in­side” and “out­side” the film, be­tween the “story” and the “real world”. [When we speak of] “film” [the word] also in­cludes this [si­t­u­a­tion].52 As I wanted to aim for this at the start, I’m sat­is­fied with the cur­rent state of the film, which I think is ap­proach­ing that on­ce- re­jected and aban­doned “metafic­tion­al­ity”.

— It’s a sit­u­a­tion where there is a struc­tural en­tan­gle­ment be­tween some­thing like re­al­ity and the cre­ative sit­u­a­tion or be­tween some­thing like the “film” and the “fan”.

Tsu­ru­maki: It’s cer­tainly “Eva-esque”.

— This is an amaz­ingly thought-pro­vok­ing ac­count, in that it sheds light on what it means to trans­form Eva into “Break” / to “Break” Eva.53

Tsu­ru­maki: I don’t know to what ex­tent the au­di­ence will be re­ally in­ter­ested in it! (laughs)

— No, no, it’s ex­tra­or­di­nar­ily in­ter­est­ing. I think it’s a valu­able ac­count.

Tsu­ru­maki: Cer­tainly this should be an in­ter­est­ing con­ver­sa­tion for the “heavy” Eva fan. I my­self also re­ally like it. “To re­peat”, “to re­make”, “to want to change”, “to have to change;” these things them­selves be­come the themes of the sto­ry, and pro­duce a new struc­ture. There is the TV se­ries, and there are the new movies; a re­it­er­a­tion. “To do it one more time”: within this de­vel­op­ment, one says one wants to change but does not. It’s as though one wants to change and yet one does­n’t want to change… this in­cred­i­ble struc­ture de­vel­oped, and I re­ally like it.

Part 5

The magic that was hid­den in Episode 1954

— Even though it’s in­ter­est­ing, the ac­tual work must nat­u­rally have been diffi­cult.

Tsu­ru­maki: There are differ­ent con­sid­er­a­tions if you are part of the cre­ative process! (laughs) If you have con­trol of this “meta” way of cre­at­ing [some­thing], then things aren’t too bad. At first I tried to ex­er­cise this con­trol, but when I talked to Anno [I learned that] it was “use­less”, so I thought, well, there’s noth­ing I can do. How­ev­er, in this state where I had no con­trol, [the film] be­came [“metafic­tional”] in the end. That’s what hap­pened.

— So it took care of it­self?

Tsu­ru­maki: Yes. It’s ex­actly a state where it’s been left to take care of it­self. (laughs) I think that’s prob­a­bly ter­ri­ble, right?

— I’m sor­ry, but I think “deep” [濃い] fans of Eva will ab­solutely say “that’s okay!” (laughs) Their fear and mis­trust of a “des­ti­na­tion un­known” melts away, ow­ing to their “pre-estab­lished har­mony” [with the creators/franchise]. More­over, if we watch the com­pleted film, there’s no sign of things that were pro­duced by “giv­ing up con­trol”. It’s be­yond the imag­i­na­tion of any­one to sense what you were able to bring about and what formed [ac­ci­den­tal­ly]. More­over, it seems as though every­thing was cal­cu­lated from the be­gin­ning… I think that, cer­tain­ly, is “Eva-esque”, and an ex­tremely in­ter­est­ing phe­nom­e­non.

Tsu­ru­maki: That’s true, is­n’t it? Some time ago there was a topic of con­ver­sa­tion deal­ing with the story struc­ture of the TV se­ries as be­ing ex­tremely fixed, ex­tremely strong, and at the time I thought this way as well. I thought, “An­no-san, he’s amaz­ing!” Amaz­ing to come up with this struc­ture. It’s a struc­ture where turn­ing over one piece brings the en­tire se­ries of con­nec­tions to life.55 I thought it was amaz­ing. How­ev­er, when I started to work on “Break”, and we looked at and an­a­lyzed the cli­mac­tic scene, cor­re­spond­ing to episode 19 of the se­ries, over and over again, then I came to re­al­ize that this was not en­tirely true. Every­body re­ally loves episode 19, and it’s said to be ex­tremely well made, right?

— Yeah. In that [episode] we get a tightly com­pressed re­it­er­a­tion of the TV se­ries up to that point; it’s a tech­nique that shows us a con­densed ver­sion of the story of Shin­ji’s growth, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: Nev­er­the­less, if you an­a­lyze the in­cred­i­ble “magic” hap­pen­ing there you will re­ally un­der­stand. I don’t mean to be im­po­lite, but, to put it sim­ply, every­body is be­ing de­ceived. Even we, the staff, were de­ceived.56

— What on earth do you mean by that?

Tsu­ru­maki: The most im­por­tant point is that Shinji says there that he won’t pi­lot the Eva again. When Shinji de­cides to leave Toky­o-3, one mo­ment he is sep­a­rat­ing from Mis­ato at Hakone-Yu­moto sta­tion, and be­fore we know it he is in an un­der­ground shel­ter in the Ge­ofront. When the An­gel at­tacks he is stand­ing on a hill over­look­ing Toky­o-3—which lies on the other side of a moun­tain from Hakone-Yu­moto57—say­ing to him­self “I won’t pi­lot”. But in the next scene he is in the un­der­ground shel­ter. While he is say­ing “I won’t pi­lot” his body is grad­u­ally com­ing closer and closer to Unit-01. I did­n’t re­ally re­al­ize this at the time. This also has to do with Masayuk­i’s tran­scen­den­tal edit­ing tech­nique and the fact that “BANK” is fre­quently used.58

— なんだか見覚えのシーンをパッパッと短くつないで 入れ子にしてあるから、よけい印象が強くなって見えるんですようね。59

Tsu­ru­maki: In ad­di­tion, there is also the lack of in­for­ma­tion char­ac­ter­is­tic of TV Ani­me. For ex­am­ple, there is the sky in the back­ground be­hind the char­ac­ter, but no in­for­ma­tion is given out­side of that; is he on the top of a moun­tain? Is he in­side the city? We don’t re­ally know.60 We are grad­u­ally dis­ori­ented by means of an ac­cu­mu­la­tion of in­de­ter­mi­na­cies.

— Cer­tain­ly, ow­ing to the “magic” of the tele­vi­sion im­age, we have the im­pres­sion that, even though Shinji is go­ing [some­where] with all his might, we don’t know where he is.

Tsu­ru­maki: But if we ob­serve care­ful­ly, we feel con­fused. Even at that [ear­lier] time I re­al­ized that much. My in­ter­pre­ta­tion was that, even though Shinji was say­ing he would­n’t pi­lot, he also un­der­stood that he had to pi­lot. As for his say­ing “I won’t pi­lot”, I be­lieved that if he was­n’t say­ing it he would cer­tainly pi­lot.61 As a re­sult, al­though he was say­ing “I won’t pi­lot, I won’t pi­lot”, his body was go­ing to­wards the cen­ter of the bat­tle. Even though he came as far the Ge­ofront, where the bat­tle was rag­ing, he was still say­ing “I won’t pi­lot, I won’t pi­lot”. Then Unit-02’s head falls down, and Unit-00 is dam­aged, and so on; and when [Sh­in­ji] goes out­side Kaji is there, and they have a fa­mous con­ver­sa­tion. Fi­nal­ly, Shinji gives up and pi­lots, de­cid­ing that, “as I thought, I have to pi­lot… I knew it, but it was just as I ex­pected”. That sort of de­vel­op­ment was how I in­ter­preted things.

— That’s also my in­ter­pre­ta­tion, and, I think, the in­ter­pre­ta­tion of count­less view­ers…

Tsu­ru­maki: [There must be a] “how­ever”, right? When I was do­ing the sto­ry­boards for “Break”, and went to con­firm with An­no-san that por­tray­ing Shinji like this was good, I was em­phat­i­cally told, “What are you talk­ing about, Makki? This is com­pletely wrong!” What a shock I re­ceived! (laughs) An­no-san con­tin­ues, “Shinji re­ally does­n’t want to pi­lot, and that’s what he says”. From my point of view Shin­ji’s de­c­la­ra­tion “I won’t pi­lot” was half a hate cam­paign against his fa­ther, a child and “da-da” type sit­u­a­tion. It was the same as a child who had quar­reled with his fa­ther say­ing “If that’s the case, I won’t study!” Emo­tion­al­ly, Shinji does­n’t want to pi­lot, but he un­der­stands that he has to. To that ex­tent I had thought he was a “grown-up” char­ac­ter.

How­ev­er, when I se­ri­ously thought over what An­no-san had said, I un­der­stood that An­no-san’s Shinji is not like that. I un­der­stood that he was a char­ac­ter who, if he feels he does­n’t want to pi­lot, ab­solutely will not pi­lot. Shinji is the ex­act op­po­site of what the con­ven­tional im­pres­sion of him is. He is not cow­ardly and in­de­ci­sive; he is ob­sti­nate and does­n’t pay any mind to other peo­ple.

— In short, a char­ac­ter who will not pi­lot, no mat­ter what?

Tsu­ru­maki: Ex­actly right. Ac­cord­ing to An­no-san, “He pi­lots be­cause he wants to pi­lot, and as long as he does­n’t want to pi­lot he won’t pi­lot”. But I re­mained un­sat­is­fied. “That would be ac­cept­able if this were a triv­ial ar­gu­ment over some­thing like study­ing.62 How­ev­er, if he does­n’t pi­lot Eva, hu­man­ity will be de­stroyed, Mis­ato will be in great diffi­cul­ties, Rei Ayanami will have to un­der­take a sui­cide at­tack, and so on; even if he knows this, will he still not pi­lot Eva?” When I again tried to ask An­no-san this, he replied, “Be­cause Shinji is ex­tremely an­gry there, his heart is closed and he does­n’t no­tice those things”.

When I was told that, I un­der­stood the ir­ra­tional speech and con­duct that could be some­times seen in An­no-san! (laughs) In short, he’s some­one who, once he starts to say he does­n’t like some­thing, ab­solutely will not budge. From my per­spec­tive, at such times An­no-san is ob­sti­nate to what feels like an ab­nor­mal ex­tent.

I am the op­po­site. I truth­fully dis­like even do­ing this in­ter­view for the pro­gram.63 How­ev­er, since An­no-san would­n’t do it, it seemed like some­one had to… I don’t care one way or the other about the in­ter­view.64 (laughs) But An­no-san, he’s some­one who some­times dis­plays an ir­ra­tional ob­sti­nacy rem­i­nis­cent of Shinji in Episode 19.

All of this is just a guess,65 but An­no-san has never in his life had the ex­pe­ri­ence “I did­n’t want to do it, but I did it”. If he did some­thing, it was only be­cause he had wanted to do it. For my­self, there were many things I did be­cause I wanted to do them, but just about as many things I did­n’t want to do, but did be­cause I had no choice.

— It’s gen­er­ally the same for every work­ing adult, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: How­ev­er, was Shinji re­ally por­trayed in episode 19 the way An­no-san said he was? No mat­ter what, the ques­tion was there, but when I ask Masayuk­i-san, who was re­spon­si­ble for di­rect­ing that episode, for con­fir­ma­tion, for one rea­son or an­other he does­n’t give me a clear an­swer. As a re­sult I won­der if he is chang­ing the de­pic­tion of Shin­ji’s char­ac­ter be­hind An­no-san’s back.66

— Is­n’t that an even more shock­ing dis­cov­ery?

Tsu­ru­maki: A rea­son that can ex­plain why Shinji re­turned to the Ge­ofront… In short, in his heart Shinji be­lieves that he has to pi­lot Eva so he goes of his own vo­li­tion. Even if the truth is that An­no-san’s script ar­rives at a differ­ent ex­pla­na­tion, [the oth­er] is eas­ily in­sert­ed. If such things as Shin­ji’s mono­logue along­side the voices of the evac­uees, the stream of an­nounce­ments on the pub­lic ad­dress sys­tem, and so on, are pre­sent, An­no-san will be­lieve that “this is cer­tainly fol­low­ing my script”. How­ev­er, Masayuk­i-san treats that skill­ful­ly, and then in­serts an am­bigu­ous de­pic­tion which could be taken a differ­ent way. As far as this is the case, Masayuk­i-san’s di­rec­toral plan should have been fun­da­men­tally the same as my in­ter­pre­ta­tion.

— I’ve got it. It’s that am­bi­gu­ity that is the main rea­son view­ers have such sym­pa­thetic feel­ings for episode 19.

Tsu­ru­maki: Right. To the ex­tent they hold those feel­ings, Shinji is not ob­sti­nate. The im­pres­sions [pro­duced by the episode] can be in­ter­preted this way.67 I think Masayuk­i-san’s words were some­thing like, “It’s this be­cause that stu­pid Anno said so, but…”68 (laughs) I won­dered if [Masayuk­i-san], like my­self, wanted to avoid a defi­nite con­flict or re­jec­tion, and so, with a skill­ful de­cep­tion, had things both ways. ???69 How­ev­er, Masayuk­i-san’s unique edit­ing tech­nique and film-like mon­tages [映画的なモンタージュ] were ac­com­pa­nied by the lack of in­for­ma­tion pe­cu­liar to tele­vi­sion; [the re­sult is] some­thing es­tab­lished through a per­fect bal­ance.

— This is a very in­ter­est­ing ex­pla­na­tion. As a re­sult, what the view­ers fi­nally see is left to the imag­i­na­tion of the view­ers. So the view­ers will reach the con­clu­sion “I was able to see what I wanted to see”.

Tsu­ru­maki: Right. Pre­cisely be­cause the in­for­ma­tion pro­vided in TV anime is slight, it’s left up to the view­ers. The tech­nique de­pends upon this pre­con­di­tion. How­ev­er, if we at­tempted to do the same thing with film-qual­ity im­ages, then that would ab­solutely lead to prob­lems. I be­lieved we could­n’t achieve the same thing [in the film] us­ing the tech­nique from episode 19.

Part 6


What is it that strength­ens the struc­ture of Eva?70

— Even if episode 19 is a mas­ter­piece, in re­al­ity its struc­ture lacks strength. Notwith­stand­ing that, why does Eva as a whole ap­pear this way [i.e., to be struc­turally sound]?

Tsu­ru­maki: From this point on, these are com­pletely my own sup­po­si­tions, so An­no-san would prob­a­bly re­ject this, but the se­cret is, I think, likely to be An­no-san him­self. An­no-san is not some­one who cre­ates ac­cord­ing to an in­duc­tive method71, but ac­cord­ing to a de­duc­tive method72. The in­duc­tive method­ol­ogy would in­volve de­cid­ing one one’s des­ti­na­tion and work­ing out what you will do to get there, but that’s not the case [with An­no], who has­n’t re­ally de­cided what the end point will be. Even if he has de­cided [on some­thing, he’s done it] very vague­ly, and as he tries to go on he gets bored with it.73 I have reached the point where I firmly be­lieve this.

To put it an­other way, he just ends up choos­ing the things he likes. For ex­am­ple, sup­pose that there is a fork in the road. [He’s?] faced with [the choice] “save Rei/not save Rei” and [he] chooses “save Rei”. [He’s] faced with [the choice] “pi­lot Eva/not pi­lot Eva” and [he] chooses “pi­lot Eva”. [He] goes on choos­ing the path he likes from a con­tin­u­ous se­ries of two al­ter­na­tives. The struc­ture of Eva’s story is as­sem­bled in this man­ner. It’s no longer a struc­ture.

— It’s just like a sin­gle road, right? If this is the case, the story of “Eva” as a whole is Anno Hideak­i’s “in­di­vid­u­al­ity”74 it­self. Is­n’t it like what he told me, some­where in the past: "_­mata mod­otte shi­mau"?75

TODO: who said this fol­low­ing line, the in­ter­viewer or Tsu­ru­maki?

Be­cause I had a differ­ent im­pres­sion at the time of the first CRC in­ter­view with Chief Di­rec­tor Hideaki An­no, I am dig­ging deeper us­ing what I heard. ???76 [Anno said that] one of his ob­jec­tives for the “New Movie Edi­tion” was to re­con­struct Evan­ge­lion as an “en­ter­tain­ment” lib­er­ated from his own “au­thor­ity” [or “au­tho­r­ial na­ture”: 作家性], so that even other di­rec­tors would be able to cre­ate [fu­ture “Eva” work­s]. In re­al­i­ty, “Pre­lude”, de­spite im­part­ing a sense of this po­ten­tial­ity … This was the mean­ing of the phrase.

Tsu­ru­maki: How­ev­er, in the end, I can’t un­der­stand it any fur­ther. Be­cause the fact is that the struc­ture of the story ap­pears to be solid, and An­no-san is some­one who won’t change his mind once he’s de­cid­ed.

— Is the foun­da­tion of this so­lid­ity then Hideaki An­no’s “in­di­vid­u­al­ity”?

Tsu­ru­maki: Let’s say we had an Ar­ti­fi­cial In­tel­li­gence which, where there are two choic­es, is un­fail­ingly bi­ased to­wards se­lect­ing what is, even if only by a small mar­gin, “the bright side”. So if we have, say, the nu­mer­i­cal val­ues “49” and “51”, it will cer­tainly choose “51”. The AI’s route is con­sis­tent. There is no ne­ces­sity or rea­son to go off course. In this sort of man­ner, I be­lieve all of Eva’s op­tions were se­lected by An­no-san ac­cord­ing to his lik­ing. The re­al­ity is, now, “Break” has also be­come like this. (laughs) Even though I think An­no-san wants to change, I think there are cer­tainly also rea­sons why he was sim­ply un­able to change. Even at the time of the TV se­ries, every­thing was al­ready [just] An­no-san se­lect­ing the di­rec­tion he liked. “If we do this, it will be kakkouii”. “I like this di­rec­tion.” “It will be fun if this hap­pens.” Be­cause he al­ways chose such a way, chang­ing that means hav­ing to do things he dis­likes. So, he was­n’t able to change… That’s how I un­der­stood things.

— I see. In­ter­est­ing. My ease in un­der­stand­ing this con­ver­sa­tion is due to my mem­ory of a sym­bolic re­mark made by a cer­tain per­son at the time when “Pre­lude” was first be­ing ad­ver­tised. “Of course, if An­no-san does it, any­thing will be­come Eva. In short, if Mr. Eva’s hands touch it, then it’s Eva!”77 The con­ver­sa­tion we’re hav­ing now re­ally goes hand in hand with that.78

Tsu­ru­maki: If we as­sume it’s pos­si­ble that there’s some sort of log­i­cal ba­sis [for Eva], then of course it’s “Hideaki Anno”. Ac­cord­ing­ly, parts [of Eva] emerge that even those of us who are very close [to Eva/Anno] don’t un­der­stand well. To be hon­est, [Eva is] like a “black box”, and so there are many oc­ca­sions when I am con­vinced that a par­tic­u­lar way is “Eva-esque” and it turns out not to be.

— On­ly, more than ten years have passed since the 1995 ver­sion [of Eva], and An­no-san him­self has changed, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: Nat­u­ral­ly, I also ex­pected that, for the “New The­atri­cal Edi­tion”, be­cause Hideaki Anno has changed with age, Eva will change as well, but… This is also [just] my own spec­u­la­tion, but in truth he has prob­a­bly not changed much at all. I feel like noth­ing has changed since he was a mid­dle school stu­dent watch­ing Ul­tra­man and [Space Bat­tle­ship] Yam­a­to. There is a “switch” in An­no-san’s mind that is com­pletely un­changed, a switch con­stantly click­ing back and forth be­tween two al­ter­na­tives. Of course, in the man him­self, there is a de­sire to change. For this rea­son Mari was in­tro­duced, and he wanted [things] to be changed, but …

— That [de­sire] in­cludes the “spirit of ser­vice” which wants to live up to the ex­pec­ta­tions of the au­di­ence, right?

Tsu­ru­maki: That’s also prob­a­bly there. On­ly, with re­gards to the new films, the cir­cum­stances are unique, and un­like what has hap­pened up un­til now. An­no-san is the orig­i­nal cre­ator, the scriptwriter, the chief di­rec­tor, the pro­ducer (sub­stan­tial­ly), the spon­sor79, the head of the pro­duc­tion stu­dio, and he also over­looks dis­tri­b­u­tion and ad­ver­tis­ing; it’s an awe-in­spir­ing sit­u­a­tion. Every fi­nal de­ci­sion is be­ing made by him alone. In his ca­pac­ity as pro­ducer and chief di­rec­tor, An­no-san be­lieved that he had to in­tro­duce Mari and change the sto­ry; how­ev­er, as the orig­i­nal cre­ator, scriptwriter, and au­thor, he did not want to make the changes. I think that, more than a re­sis­tance to change, he had the feel­ing that if he changed Eva it would some­how not be “his” Eva, and so he was di­vid­ed. Even though he knew that the story would in­evitably have to change if he in­tro­duced a new char­ac­ter, pre­serv­ing the essence [of Evan­ge­lion] while hav­ing that new char­ac­ter play an ac­tive role was a great prob­lem.

— This re­sis­tance, or should I say con­flict, paid off, and, in the end, some­how this bro­ken “Break” took form, right? ???80

Tsu­ru­maki: Ul­ti­mate­ly, I think that [the film] forth­rightly ex­pressed what An­no-san had stat­ed, that “Shinji truly does­n’t want to pi­lot”. As a re­sult, the story clearly differed from my in­ter­pre­ta­tion of episode 19 as “Shinji truly know­ing that he has to pi­lot, and so pi­lot­ing in the end”.81

Part 7


En­trust­ing the third Rei’s dis­tant feel­ings82 / The feel­ings [I] at­tempted to en­trust to [ex­press through?] the third Rei83 84

— At what point did you de­cide that the cli­max would blend the story of episode 19 with el­e­ments of episode 23?

Tsu­ru­maki: I had sug­gested that this would be a good idea, and it was [in place] from a very early stage. The orig­i­nal plan had been for “Break” to com­prise episodes eight to nine­teen. I thought this would be diffi­cult. If the num­ber of episodes cov­ered would be large in any case, I thought we should in­stead in­crease the range to in­clude episode 23, and free up the third part on­wards. I thought it would be un­pleas­ant to leave “home­work”.

— So you could ad­mit new el­e­ments in the fu­ture?

Tsu­ru­maki: Right. There was a feel­ing that we wanted the diffi­cul­ties to be, as far as pos­si­ble, con­fined to “Break”, be­cause we wanted a sit­u­a­tion where we would be able to try var­i­ous things in the third part. So, after Rei’s death in episode 23, Ka­woru comes to Shin­ji; we at­tempted a struc­ture sim­i­lar to the TV se­ries. But, in the end, Rei did­n’t die…

— In­stead, it seemed that Shinji and Rei “got to­gether”.

Tsu­ru­maki: There is prob­a­bly some other in­ten­tion there, so I think you should check with An­no-san [about that]. How­ev­er, be­cause there was a feel­ing that Rei III had been poorly de­vel­oped in the TV se­ries, after Rei II died in “Break”, we wanted to de­velop in de­tail the drama of Rei III in “Q” [3.0].

— So it’s some­thing you were not able to fully re­al­ize in the TV se­ries. “Be­cause I am the third” is an amaz­ingly im­pact­ful, fa­mous line of di­a­logue, but, in truth, I felt that [Rei III] did­n’t re­ally mean much after that…

Tsu­ru­maki: I thought go­ing deeply into that would be in­ter­est­ing, even in a “Sci­ence Fic­tion”-like way. As Rei re­al­izes the fact, and the sig­nifi­cance of the fact, that there has been more than one Rei be­fore her, how, as a clone, will she achieve her in­de­pen­dence as an in­di­vid­u­al? I wanted to de­velop a story like that. How­ev­er, it was de­cided that Rei would­n’t die, and, in the cli­max of “Break”, we strongly and ac­tively push the idea of “Rei and Shinji be­ing brought to­gether”, a de­vel­op­ment taken over from “Pre­lude”.

— That was an ex­tra­or­di­nar­ily sur­pris­ing de­vel­op­ment.

Tsu­ru­maki: Be­cause it’s even linked with the mo­ti­va­tion for hav­ing Asuka pi­lot Unit-03, it ended up be­ing a stronger way of de­vel­op­ing things than I thought. ??85

— There’s one thing that mys­ti­fied me. De­spite the fact that the orig­i­nal sce­nario for the cli­max was differ­ent, in “Pre­lude” Gen­dou men­tions some­thing like a “love love strat­egy” in­tended to bring Rei and Shinji closer to­geth­er. Why does that ap­pear to be con­sis­tent [with “Break”]?

Tsu­ru­maki: An­no-san prob­a­bly has­n’t thought about that very deeply.

— Eh? That was­n’t fore­shad­ow­ing?

Tsu­ru­maki: We on the staff had a con­ver­sa­tion about that di­a­logue from “Pre­lude”, won­der­ing if it was okay to have [Gen­dou] say that. Not to men­tion that I thought Rei II was go­ing to die in “Break”.

— Then why, de­spite that, was there a con­sis­ten­cy?

Tsu­ru­maki: This is ev­i­dence that the story was de­vel­oped, not with an “in­duc­tive” tech­nique, but with a “de­duc­tive” one. “He al­ready said it there, so we have no choice”. It’s some­thing like a method­ol­ogy where [the sto­ry] is ad­just­ed, even forcibly, to be con­sis­tent with what has al­ready been done.

— This is quite a shock (laugh­ing)! Sure­ly, im­me­di­ately fol­low­ing “Pre­lude”, there are peo­ple who grin and say of the “love love strat­egy”, “This is a big change!” Surely it leaves a strong im­pres­sion on every­one. As a re­sult, they will surely think dur­ing “Break”, “Ah, as I thought, those two were brought to­geth­er!”

Tsu­ru­maki: The im­pres­sion that An­no-san mainly wanted to con­vey was that Gen­dou and Fuyut­suki were de­vis­ing a se­cret plot. Be­cause Shinji hap­pens to go to Rei’s room just after that, that was what they dis­cussed. When “se­cret plot” and “Shinji and Rei” were com­bined, it prob­a­bly ap­peared some­thing like “a strat­egy to bring to­gether Shinji and Rei”.

— Rather than be­ing dis­ap­point­ed, I’m im­pressed. All the more, I have a pleas­ant feel­ing that things have be­come “Eva-esque”. The fact that this con­sis­tency is in­her­ent [makes it] ex­tremely valu­able; I am de­lighted [to think] that this may be the much-dis­cussed “live feel­ing”.86 In any case, there will surely be many view­ers who have the im­pres­sion that, this time, Gen­do’s Hu­man In­stru­men­tal­ity Project [some­how de­pends on] this “love love strat­egy”. Fuyut­suki also says some­thing like, “As we thought, ow­ing to those two Unit-01 has awak­ened”.

Tsu­ru­maki: And Gen­dou replies some­thing like “A lit­tle while longer, and our project is com­plete”. I had doubts sto­ry­board­ing that con­ver­sa­tion, and sent An­no-san a se­ries of ques­tions about it. “So Gen­dou knew this would hap­pen to Unit-01? Or was Gen­dou also sur­prised and trou­bled? Or was Gen­dou sur­prised, but pleased with the out­come?” I did­n’t un­der­stand the spe­cific mean­ing of the state­ment, so I strug­gled to in­ter­pret it. An­no-san replied that, “For now, we’ll say he aimed at this and things went the way he ex­pected”. I won­dered if that was enough. For my­self, I am still skep­ti­cal that even Gen­dou is­n’t re­ally pan­ick­ing in­side, but…

— So [ev­ery­thing] will prob­a­bly be over­turned again next time?

Tsu­ru­maki: That is per­fectly likely (laugh­s).

— One more thing: Ka­woru’s ex­is­tence in light of the fact that we are given this strong im­pres­sion that, “this time, the hu­man in­stru­men­tal­ity project was this ‘love love strat­egy’ with Shinji and Rei”. There’s no doubt that fe­male fans were ex­tremely pleased by Ka­woru’s line after the end­ing: “Ikari Shin­ji-kun, this time, I will make you happy”.

Tsu­ru­maki: Ka­woru’s line stayed the same from the very first sto­ry­board. It was some­thing he said while wear­ing his usual re­laxed smile. Of course, at the last min­ute, just, I think, be­fore we started post-syn­chro­niza­tion, we be­gan talk­ing about whether or not it would be bet­ter if Ka­woru looked scary dur­ing that scene.

— As a re­sult, it looks like he’s come to take his bride by force!87

Tsu­ru­maki: Right, right (laugh­ing). [We thought it would be] more in­ter­est­ing if Ka­woru looked like [he was think­ing]: “You’ve been with a woman while I’ve been away? How dare you…!” It’s not Ka­woru’s usual re­laxed ex­pres­sion; he’s some­how be­come ir­ri­tat­ed, right?

Part 8

Part 9

Part 10

Part 11


The sig­nifi­cantly changed An­gels of “Break”

— This time around, the de­signs of the An­gels, such as the “Hei­wa­ji­ma-like” sev­enth An­gel, have all rad­i­cally changed. Was this the in­ten­tion from the out­set?88

Tsu­ru­maki: As far as the sev­enth An­gel is con­cerned, the truth is that the orig­i­nal rea­son [for the change in de­sign] was that the genga for that episode had been en­tirely lost, and we could­n’t use the ‘BANK.’ If the genga had re­mained, even if the key an­i­ma­tion di­rec­tor de­cided to redo them, episode eight would prob­a­bly have re­mained [in the film] in its en­tire­ty. [We thought,] if we can’t make use of the gen­ga, let’s com­pletely change Asuka’s in­tro­duc­tory scene. The de­sign was put to­gether by Shigeto Koya­ma-san and Daizen Ko­mat­su­da-kun […].89

— Who did the de­sign for the eighth An­gel?90

Tsu­ru­maki: The de­sign of the falling An­gel was done en­tirely by Mahiro Maeda-san; the de­sign of the hu­manoid that emerges from its cen­ter was done by [Takeshi] Hon­da-kun. It was a part I did­n’t su­per­vise, so I don’t know the de­tails, but I think the CG was rel­a­tively diffi­cult. With the sixth An­gel in “Pre­lude”, even if things weren’t per­fect, we could some­how see what we had done cor­rect­ly, and fig­ure out how to pro­ceed in a way that would bring us closer to our goal. How­ev­er, with the falling An­gel, it seems that things were more or less done by trial and er­ror, with no goal in sight.91

— The third An­gel’s de­sign [was done by] au­thor -san, right?92

Tsu­ru­maki: That’s right. Anno had done a rough sketch, but the idea that Ki­to­h-san sub­mit­ted seemed nearly de­fin­i­tive on the first at­tempt.93

— […] why was the de­sign of the tenth An­gel al­tered?94

Tsu­ru­maki: I don’t know the rea­son. I think, at the ear­li­est stage of plot de­vel­op­ment, that even the fact that it would change form had not been de­ter­mined. Orig­i­nal­ly, the de­sign of the TV se­ries’ four­teenth An­gel con­tained ex­cel­lent ideas. The fold­ing fan-pa­per style arms were es­pe­cially in­ter­est­ing. That con­cep­tion ap­peared from the be­gin­ning, to the ex­tent that, in the pro­posal for the TV se­ries, there was an im­age board where Unit-01 bat­tled an An­gel that was just a fly­ing [pair of] origami-like arms.95 I don’t re­ally know the rea­son that was changed.96

— In episode 19 of the TV se­ries, Eva con­sumes the An­gel, but, in “Break”, the An­gel con­sumes Eva. I think this re­ver­sal is im­pres­sive. The au­di­ence will be first of all sur­prised by the change in form, and then dou­bly sur­prised by the act of con­sump­tion. I think this An­gel might sym­bol­ize “Break”.97

Tsu­ru­maki: It’s differ­ent than the di­rect con­sump­tion in the bat­tle with Unit-03. We used an idea where the im­pres­sion would be of some­thing re­sem­bling the act of a preda­tory an­i­mal. If it had been a TV se­ries, a week would have passed in be­tween, so it prob­a­bly would­n’t mat­ter, but in a film, I thought that hav­ing a scene con­vey­ing a sim­i­lar im­pres­sion just thirty min­utes prior would have been awk­ward. [More than trans­form­ing, it felt like it was grad­u­ally de­vel­op­ing. It seemed like the An­gel was grad­u­ally com­ing closer to a hu­man be­ing. ??] Even though we had started the sto­ry­boards, the de­sign was chang­ing day by day with­out be­ing so­lid­i­fied. Even in the sto­ry­boards, at differ­ent pe­ri­ods a va­ri­ety of types and differ­ent de­signs were used. As for the An­gel’s fi­nal form, I wanted to do some­thing re­sem­bling a fe­male vil­lain from the Sen­tai Se­ries. I still feel that way.98

— Eh, you mean [with some sort of] head­gear?99

Tsu­ru­maki: Yeah. Sim­i­lar to Ri­d­er­man [from Ka­men Rid­er]. From the mouth to the nose you would have the face of a wom­an, and the head from the eyes up­wards would be cov­ered by the An­gel. The body would be nude and enor­mous. When I sub­mit­ted this pro­pos­al, it was im­me­di­ately re­jected (laugh­s). In the Sen­tai Se­ries, there are the scenes where [the villain/monster] grows enor­mous on the other side of the moun­tains [?] and rages vi­o­lent­ly, right? Us­ing “muri­yara na gou­sei100 [you have the villain/monster] kick­ing around sty­ro­foam boul­ders, [and so on]. [It was] this sort of im­age, but when I showed the draw­ing to An­no-san, he nat­u­rally thought it was no good. If I was to say which I prefer, I’m some­one who en­joys the Sen­tai Se­ries even more than Ka­men Rid­er, but prob­a­bly Anno only en­joys the Sen­tai Se­ries as a joke, and does­n’t se­ri­ously like them. How­ev­er, I think we ended up with an in­ter­est­ing de­sign.101

— The bat­tle with the An­gel used the same “katto wari102 as in episode 19 of the TV se­ries. For ex­am­ple, the most im­pres­sive cut where Unit-01 rushes into the com­mand cen­ter [is the same].103

Tsu­ru­maki: That part was the same as it was in the [o­rig­i­nal] sto­ry­boards; be­yond the change in de­sign of the An­gel, we treated things in such a way so as to only mod­ify those parts we had to change. At first we thought that the “katto wari” should be com­pletely changed, but it would­n’t have gone well if we had changed it. For me, chang­ing episode 19 was ex­tremely stress­ful in and of it­self; I felt like the more we changed it, the more the qual­ity [of the se­quence] would suffer.104

Part 12

Part 13


Cast­ing That Stressed The El­e­ment Of Sur­prise

— I’m go­ing to bring the sub­ject [of the con­ver­sa­tion] back, once more, to Mari. I’d like to ask you about the se­lec­tion of Maaya Sakamo­to-san [for the role]. Around when was the cast­ing [for Mar­i’s role] dis­cussed?

Tsu­ru­maki: The de­ci­sion was made al­most at the last minute. As far as Mari was con­cerned, An­no-san was, on the whole, ex­tremely cir­cum­spect. Maybe it was less cir­cum­spec­tion, than the fact that, from a cer­tain stage, [he thought] it would be bet­ter if he did­n’t de­cide [about Mar­i]. Per­haps he thought, “If I make the de­ci­sions, of course she won’t end up be­ing the char­ac­ter who de­stroys Eva” … I don’t re­ally know.

Even con­cern­ing the [voice] ac­tor’s se­lec­tion—­first of all, Mar­i’s char­ac­ter had re­mained un­set­tled the whole way up to that point. Just prior to voice record­ing, at a pe­riod when, if we did­n’t de­cide [on an ac­tor] we would­n’t be able to make an offer­—even though we had reached such a stage, we re­ceived no in­di­ca­tion from An­no-san as to his de­sires or the di­rec­tion [in which we should pro­ceed]. Hav­ing no other choice, at the end of last year Sadamo­to-san and I dis­cussed things at the level of a “stand­ing con­ver­sa­tion”, rais­ing the names of as many ac­tors as the two of us could come up with, one after the oth­er, re­spond­ing [to each] with things like, “That’s a pos­si­bil­ity”, or “That won’t work”, and go­ing on and on like this for­ev­er. It was then that Sakamo­to-san’s name first ap­peared.

— Given Aim For The Top 2!, anime fans would be likely to con­jec­ture that you and Sadamo­to-san would de­cide upon Maaya Sakamo­to-san.

Tsu­ru­maki: I’m sorry [to say that] we did­n’t think along those lines at all. I don’t mean to be rude; Sakamo­to-san’s name came up much later in the con­ver­sa­tions be­tween Sadamo­to-san and I… Even though the [na­ture of Mar­i’s] char­ac­ter had not been in­di­cated [to the staff] by An­no-san, the work of pro­duc­ing [the film’s] sto­ry­boards had con­tin­ued. I had no choice but to por­tray Mari [in the sto­ry­boards] ac­cord­ing to my own de­fi­n­i­tion [of her char­ac­ter]; [I saw her as] an “ir­re­spon­si­ble”105 and “cun­ning”106 char­ac­ter. [To say] “cow­ardice”107 would be wrong; it was a “cun­ning­ness”108 at the op­po­site re­move from “dili­gence”109, “ob­sti­nacy”110, and so on—or could I say it was a feel­ing of “the right mix of sea­son­ings?”111 … I thought that, oth­er­wise, she would over­lap [with] the ex­ist­ing Eva char­ac­ters and be lost among them.

An­no-san had pre­vi­ously said, “All the char­ac­ters that ap­pear in Eva are me”; he said that not just Shin­ji, but Kaji and Mis­ato as well, and even char­ac­ters like Ka­woru and Rei, are as­pects of him­self. In this sense, every char­ac­ter is ul­ti­mately the same. On the sur­face, differ­ent “sea­son­ings” have been used, but in­side [the char­ac­ters] re­ally are very sim­i­lar. If Mari were to end up the same as them, she would not be able to de­stroy that world. As a re­sult, for me, Mari was a girl who made use of that “friv­o­lous­ness”112 that was the op­po­site of dili­gence for her own ben­e­fit.

— [She] has lines [in the film] that give that im­pres­sion. “In [my] own in­ter­est”…

Tsu­ru­maki: How­ev­er, that would be the ex­act op­po­site of Sakamo­to-san’s nat­ural ten­den­cies [as a voice ac­tor]. Sakamo­to-san her­self is the same way. [You get] the im­pres­sion that the char­ac­ters Sakamo­to-san has played up un­til now are honor stu­dents and “dili­gent” [in­di­vid­u­al­s]. Be­cause of that [I] did­n’t think of Sakamo­to-san’s name.

— But, in­stead, [you thought] the op­po­site [type] was suited for the role?

Tsu­ru­maki: Yeah. When Sadamo­to-san brought up Sakamo­to-san’s name, I thought, “that might be in­ter­est­ing”. Dur­ing the first cast­ing in 1995, we ap­pointed (Megu­mi) Hayashibara-san [to play] a silent and melan­choly girl, and offered (Kotono) Mit­su­ishi-san a fe­male char­ac­ter who was a twen­ty-nine year old adult; that was al­most in­con­ceiv­able at the time. There was an el­e­ment of sur­prise there, and [that] was im­pres­sive. The com­bi­na­tion of Mari and Sakamo­to-san sud­denly re­minded us of that time; it re­sem­bled [those de­ci­sion­s].

Nev­er­the­less, [we] were ex­tremely un­easy [about it]. An­no-san had no con­cerns about the abil­ity of Sakamo­to-san her­self, and he finds it in­ter­est­ing when the voice does­n’t match the style of char­ac­ter,113 so, when we sug­gested [to An­no,] “how would Maaya Sakamo­to-san be?”, [he re­spond­ed] some­thing like, “Good! Good!”, and it was set­tled.

— [He] re­sponded im­me­di­ate­ly?

Tsu­ru­maki: Yeah. How­ev­er, I don’t re­ally know whether he thought deeply about it [per­son­al­ly], or whether [he just thought that] what­ever Sadamo­to-san and my­self de­cided upon would be good (laugh­s).

Part 14

The Pres­ence of a Voice Which Pen­e­trates the Char­ac­ter114

— You ac­tu­ally wit­nessed the voice record­ing ses­sions. How did they go?

Tsu­ru­maki: I was wor­ried, even as we reached the day ap­pointed for the ses­sions. Un­til we tried match­ing a voice with the pic­ture, [we] were com­pletely un­able to say how the [role of the] pre-ti­tle se­quence, some­thing like “a young girl who fights while hum­ming to her­self”, should be per­formed. Usu­al­ly, [we] some­how ar­rive at a con­jec­ture. If [the ac­tor is] per­form­ing a char­ac­ter that re­sem­bles some­thing done pre­vi­ous­ly, then [we] have a gen­eral sense of it, only this time [we] could­n’t even form an im­pres­sion—should [Sakamo­to] per­form with an “adult” voice or a “girl­ish” voice?115 […] Was the “mis­match” we were aim­ing at re­ally go­ing to cause an in­ter­est­ing “chem­i­cal re­ac­tion”, or…? How­ev­er, in the very first test, I was al­ready grin­ning hear­ing her voice ap­pended to the “fast cut”. In my heart I was think­ing, “vic­to­ry!”

— I was also present on that oc­ca­sion. The [very] first shot at a test for the pre-ti­tle se­quence was good, right? It’s amaz­ing that her de­liv­ery on the first cut [pro­duced] a per­fect test.

Tsu­ru­maki: That test was truly amaz­ing, to the ex­tent that there were cuts al­ready be­ing ap­proved by the chief di­rec­tor at the test. We recorded mul­ti­ple takes after­wards, but we al­most en­tirely set­tled on the di­rec­tion of the first test.

— What sort of diffi­cul­ties re­lated to Mari were there in the per­for­mance?

Tsu­ru­maki: Con­cern­ing the pre-ti­tle se­quence, after the fi­nal ver­sion of the sto­ry­boards was sub­mit­ted and we had met to dis­cuss pro­duc­ing the im­ages, Mar­i’s di­a­logue was al­most com­pletely re­vised. As a re­sult, not only the dra­matic role, but the per­son­al­ity [of the char­ac­ter] changed. In this way, be­cause she was a char­ac­ter cre­ated in a state of in­de­ci­sion, it could seem that she was a differ­ent char­ac­ter in each scene she ap­peared in. Some­one des­ig­nated a “prob­lem child”, a girl who can pi­lot Eva with plea­sure and with­out protest; she hums to her­self while fight­ing, and when it comes down to it and she gives her all, cries “Ora ora!”116 and im­pales the an­gel, say­ing that even her pain is ex­cit­ing; with great zeal she fin­ishes [the an­gel] off de­spite the ex­change of blows, and po­litely thanks Unit-05 for its efforts. I felt dizzy when this char­ac­ter emerged from An­no-san’s re­vi­sions. I could­n’t help think­ing that, even in this short pre-ti­tle se­quence, the char­ac­ter was di­vided [into mul­ti­ple per­son­al­i­ties]. Like in the sto­ry­boards, she would be wear­ing a hel­met that hid her fa­cial ex­pres­sions, so it would­n’t be clear if she was speak­ing se­ri­ously or mess­ing around. Even when I asked [An­no] for an ex­pla­na­tion, he gave me noth­ing but vague re­spons­es. I think it was prob­a­bly quite a diffi­cult role for Sakamo­to-san as well. Ow­ing to this state of affairs, at a sin­gle glance [ev­ery­thing] might ap­pear to be “blurred”, with pieces scat­tered every­where. [We] wanted a voice that would con­vince [us] that all [these el­e­ments] were present within a sin­gle young girl.

That be­ing the case, there were al­ready no prob­lems with her act­ing tech­nique. That was prob­a­bly al­ready set­tled be­fore she stepped in front of the mi­cro­phone. This [ques­tion of tech­nique] is in­ter­est­ing as well. The re­la­tion­ship be­tween the ac­tors of Eva and their char­ac­ters, and their re­la­tion­ship to An­no-san, is com­pletely differ­ent than a in nor­mal pro­duc­tion. It’s unique, I think, in that it in­cor­po­rates feel­ings ly­ing ad­ja­cent to re­al­i­ty. It no longer has any­thing to do with skill or lack of skill. It’s not be­cause the tech­nique is mas­ter­ful or be­cause the qual­ity of the voice is good. It’s not just to pro­vide what is be­ing re­quest­ed; if there’s noth­ing in [the per­for­mance] that trans­forms the very work it­self, then…

— […] I think, ow­ing to Maaya Sakamo­to-san’s voice be­ing in­serted into the film, an­other “Break”-like change oc­curred.117

Tsu­ru­maki: I thought that was re­ally good. [Mari] was differ­ent than the char­ac­ters Sakamo­to-san has por­trayed up un­til now, and, from the im­pres­sion [I re­ceived] at the test, she had prac­ticed con­sid­er­ably [for the role]. I won­der if this is ac­cept­able for a di­rec­tor, but, when [Sakamo­to’s] voice came in, it was like I un­der­stood Mari for the first time.

Commentary From Designers

Third Angel/Mohiro Kitoh


An­no-san first asked me about do­ing some work for him around the spring of 2004, on a differ­ent project than Eva. He asked me about the de­sign for the third an­gel of “Break” around the end of 2006, quite some time be­fore the re­lease of “Pre­lude.”

To be hon­est, the third an­gel is fun­da­men­tally the same as it was in An­no-san’s sketch. My job was not quite that of a de­sign­er. […]

I came up with a form like this, fol­low­ing An­no-san’s out­line in a rou­tine man­ner, so there was no diffi­culty with the de­sign. In ad­di­tion, I was told from the be­gin­ning that CG would be used to an­i­mate its move­ment, so I did­n’t bother con­triv­ing some­thing [new] that would be easy to draw. In­stead, I put the [ex­ist­ing] parts in or­der so that the CG mod­el­ing would be easy. How­ev­er, I have no knowl­edge of [the process], so I don’t ac­tu­ally know whether that made it eas­ier or not. An­other rea­son was that I heard that the an­gel would only be on screen for five min­utes, so I thought it was­n’t nec­es­sary to waste a lot of time do­ing the de­sign.

The in­sec­t-like legs were also in An­no’s sketch. I at­tached them half-way up the torso so that you could imag­ine what the form of the an­gel was like be­fore it was cap­tured. The de­sign was com­pleted at the end of 2006, and the rest was up to oth­ers. I was no longer in­volved. Nor had I in­di­cated how it would move. When I saw the fin­ished film I thought, “so this is how it moves”: its feet clat­ter­ing around, and its neck and tail act­ing just like a pair of wings. I was im­pressed. I felt like it had been done by an an­i­ma­tor with a great sen­si­tiv­ity to move­ment.

When it comes to the things I de­sign for my own man­ga, I have all the spec­i­fi­ca­tions within me, and I make as many changes [to them] as I like while sketch­ing the draft. Most of my de­signs are done off-the-cuff on the draft pa­per. How­ev­er, when it comes to a job like this, where I am de­sign­ing some­thing for an­other per­son to use, I can’t fully know every­thing that is re­quired, so there will surely be things I will have to apol­o­gize for. [?]

As mine was a spe­cial case where I did the work with­out com­ing into the work­place, I felt like I could­n’t com­pletely grasp how far I should be in­volved in the plans for ac­tu­ally ren­der­ing it and ob­vi­ously re­lated prob­lems like [the ques­tion of] its move­ment. That’s the rea­son why I handed the work over at that stage, once the [an­gel’s] form was set out. I know the best thing about this sort of job is go­ing to the office and play­ing catch-ball there while you fin­ish your work, but the fact that I could by no means ac­cept that sched­ule ow­ing to my job writ­ing manga made things diffi­cult. Al­though I only did this much, my name was listed in the cred­its. I feel ter­ri­ble about that.


Char­ac­ter sketch, Hideaki An­no: the Third An­gel

Anno Sketch

The third an­gel, which bat­tles Unit-05
Sketch by H. An­no, Oct. 25 2006

Venom comes out of the mouth?


Pseudo-En­try Plug

In­ter­nal or­gans?
S2 en­gine?

It bal­ances it­self “fu­rib­ashi” style.

It has been cap­tured, sealed.
In this re­gard, every­thing that is
not a nec­es­sary part ->

Other parts in here ->
They have been dis­man­tled and stored.

Char­ac­ter sketch, Hideaki An­no: the Third An­gel (2)

Ki­toh Draw­ings

En­try Plug ex­te­rior

Parts of skele­ton

Lower jaw, de­tached.

Orig­i­nal arm Humerus.

With­out its “skin­suit.”

Orig­i­nal leg
Sec­tion of fe­mur

Body—un­der­sur­face only
It’s like it has an ex­oskele­ton.

Body with its “skin­suit.”

Char­ac­ter sketch, Mo­hiro Ki­toh: the Third An­gel

21 sec­tions (in­clud­ing en­try plug unit)

Com­mon spine unit [?]
(ex­clud­ing en­try plug)

21 sec­tions

11 sec­tions
[???] from parts of the orig­i­nal spine.

Body with­out its “skin­suit.”

Seventh Angel/Shigeto Koyama


Rough sketches for settei/Shigeto Koyama

Spec­u­la­tions on the struc­ture of the head, mid­sec­tion, etc.

Di­rec­tions for 3D CG model brush-up/Daizen Ko­mat­suda (pp. 147–148)

I was called in after (Daizen) Ko­mat­su­da-san’s “Hei­wa­jima” con­cept was OKed by An­no-san. Even be­fore­hand, I re­ally loved the mag­nifi­cent de­signs of the an­gels, and had thought at some length about what de­sign el­e­ments would be nec­es­sary to es­tab­lish some­thing as an an­gel. The im­pe­tus which en­abled my an­swer was a “Vira Sei­jin” ball­point pen I re­ceived when I vis­ited the home of scriptwriter Yoji Enoki­do-san. After study­ing Toru Nar­i­ta-san’s de­signs of mon­sters and space aliens for and , I no­ticed [he used] a sculp­tural de­sign: a “lin­ear”, “geo­met­ri­cal” shape con­sist­ing of “sur­faces” with depth. [*]

More­over, when I worked on di­rec­tor Tsu­ru­mak­i-san’s Aim for the Top 2! [Die­buster], I per­son­ally wanted to make an effort to link the de­signs [of that work] to those of An­no-san’s prior work, Aim for the Top! [Gun­buster], so I thor­oughly stud­ied “Anno de­sign” and “Anno de­tail” by look­ing at set­tei and in­di­vid­ual frames [from that work]. Be­cause of that ex­pe­ri­ence, I was able to grasp that the dis­po­si­tion of tri­an­gles and hexa­gons was a cru­cial el­e­ment [of An­no’s de­sign]. [*]

As a re­sult, I con­sid­ered there to be two de­sign re­quire­ments for an an­gel: the de­sign should be “sculp­tural” and “con­tain tri­an­gles and hexa­gons.” Fur­ther­more, I sug­gested a third re­quire­ment: “its ac­tions ex­ceed hu­man rea­son.” The idea that its float­ing feet would seem to “rend” the air like “di­viders”, [?] leave tracks of ice, and walk upon the sur­face of the wa­ter was [for the sake of] this third, “be­hav­ioral” re­quire­ment. I found Ko­mat­su­da-san’s “Hei­wa­jima” con­cept118 per­son­ally in­ter­est­ing, […]119

Fur­ther­more, An­no-san brought up the im­age of the Toshiba IHI pavil­ion at Os­aka 120 (de­signed by Kisho Kurokawa) —I was think­ing, “The tetra-frame is a poly­gon! At last!” and was pri­vately de­lighted (laugh­s). So, I sub­mit­ted a rough de­sign show­ing a hexag­o­nal shape com­prised of tetra-frames, and [the idea] was OKed.

For the face, I sub­mit­ted var­i­ous pat­terns along the lines of a de­sign by Yoshito Asar­i-san, the “in­or­ganic”, “ex­pres­sion­less,” “ego­less” char­ac­ter of which in­spired dread. [*] The new de­signs of the pro­vi­sional Unit-05 and the third an­gel dur­ing the pre-ti­tle se­quence would, as the open­ing strike, sur­prise the view­ers, so I thought that there should be an an­gel de­sign which could re­as­sure the view­ers a bit, like, “with­out doubt, this is Eva!” I de­cided upon the col­ors—black and white, with red mixed in­—us­ing the same ra­tio­nale. At the stage where the face was de­cid­ed, an idea of An­no-san’s—“it should move like a clock, ‘kaku, kaku’”—was in­cor­po­rat­ed. We con­verted the con­firmed im­age into a 3D mod­el. What we made ad­just­ments to on the mon­i­tor be­came the fi­nal de­sign.


[I found Ko­mat­su­da’s hand­writ­ing quite diffi­cult to read, so I haven’t tried to do the notes (at least, not yet).]

Char­ac­ter sketch, Daizen Ko­mat­su­da: Sev­enth An­gel (1)
Char­ac­ter sketch, Daizen Ko­mat­su­da: Sev­enth An­gel (2)
Char­ac­ter sketch, Daizen Ko­mat­su­da: Sev­enth An­gel (3)

Tenth Angel/Yoshito Asari


The de­sign was re­quested early on. For “Pre­lude”, con­sid­er­able changes were made to the bat­tle with the sixth an­gel, which be­came the core of the work. For “Break,” the bat­tle with the tenth an­gel was sup­posed to cor­re­spond to that [cli­mac­tic bat­tle with the six­th]. […] I won­der if [An­no] just wanted some­thing con­crete to be used, tem­porar­i­ly, as an im­pe­tus for cre­at­ing the “gim­micks,” bat­tles, and so on, for the new parts of the work. As a re­sult, in “Break,” ma­jor in­no­va­tions were in­cor­po­rated into every an­gel bat­tle.

Up un­til now, with the ex­cep­tion of the TV se­ries’ third an­gel, the an­gel de­sign re­quests that I have re­ceived have all been ex­plained with ref­er­ence to a “gim­mick” within the work (the fourth an­gel has beam-like whips for arms, the four­teenth an­gel has folded fab­ric-like “cut­ters” for arms, and so on). As far as the ini­tial re­quest for the new ver­sion of the strongest an­gel, I only re­mem­ber the vague de­scrip­tion: “Some­thing like [the four­teenth an­gel in the TV se­ries] ap­pears; in re­al­ity it is some­thing com­pletely differ­ent.” To be­gin with, I sub­mit­ted an idea where [“Break’s” tenth an­gel] ap­pears look­ing like the four­teenth an­gel of the TV se­ries, with [a pair of] “belt-like” arms wrapped around its body. When it un­wraps it­self, its form com­pletely changes. After that, it is com­pletely differ­ent than the TV se­ries’ four­teenth an­gel, with a ter­ri­fy­ing shape … when I drew the an­gel, that was what I had in mind.

I sub­mit­ted the first draft, and com­pletely for­got about it un­til the be­gin­ning of 2007, when a rough sketch121 from the di­rec­tor sud­denly ar­rived, with the fol­low­ing writ­ten upon it: “Like some­thing wound upon a reel.” “Like the up­per parts of ?” “Some­thing con­sumed by the an­gel emerges.” To be­gin with, I thought about some­thing that would in­cor­po­rate that “gim­mick.” I sub­mit­ted an idea where, con­cern­ing the “con­sump­tion”, it ex­tends a pro­boscis, pen­e­trates the Eva, and draws out its in­sides.

There were fur­ther changes after that […] In the fourth draft the “gim­mick” of the bat­tle so­lid­i­fied, [?] and an idea was pre­sented where the an­gel trans­formed from its “flut­ter­ing” con­di­tion, rolling up into a solid pipe, or else chang­ing into the form of a spear. There was a de­sign change in ac­cor­dance with that.

The change where the ab­sorbed Eva pro­truded from the [an­gel’s] body it­self was also a di­rec­toral re­quest. Along with the dis­ap­pear­ance of the torso in the de­sign, the “flut­ter­ing” was changed to re­sem­ble the palm of a hand. […] it seemed like an im­age where the ab­sorbed Eva was ma­nip­u­lated like a pup­pet. [?] At that time the chal­lenge was putting into effect an idea where the form, or, should I say, the tex­ture of the whole, sud­denly changes. From fun­yaan to shakiin [“limp” to “firm”?]; that was the ver­bal in­struc­tion given by the di­rec­tor.

As far as Ayanami’s ab­sorp­tion was con­cerned, the in­struc­tions came from the di­rec­tor as well. I my­self thought about a de­sign where the en­tire body did­n’t emerge, but you would have the torso with­out the arms, or an asym­me­try where an arm emerges in place of a leg, or where the body parts “cross” one an­oth­er. How­ev­er, when I tried draw­ing it, it was­n’t as good as I ex­pect­ed.

I tried draw­ing var­i­ous things, and left the fi­nal de­ci­sion to the di­rec­tor.


Char­ac­ter sketch, Yoshito Asari: Tenth An­gel


Sto­ry­board sketch: Gi­ant Rei em­brac­ing the awak­ened Eva-01

‘A “sug­ges­tive” scene be­tween awak­ened Eva-01 and the gi­ant Rei.’122

“Should I feel re­lieved that, after a decade of liv­ing (mostly alone) with my idio­syn­cratic de­prav­i­ty, it is re­vealed that some­one from the orig­i­nal Eva team has con­tem­plated the no­tion of nu­clelin­gus? Or should I be fright­ened that the sce­nario is one in­volv­ing a Rei torso emerg­ing from Zeruel and com­ing onto an up­side-down Eva-01 hard?”123

Unit 05

Char­ac­ter sketch: Eva Unit 05

Unit 05, sketches with legs rather than wheels

3.0 preview

Sto­ry­board for 3.0 pre­view, Ka­woru & Rei

At the side it seems to say:

  • Ka­woru plus Rei (black) x 4 (3 of them are 6–10 years old)
  • Back­ground is gra­dated
  • Wa­ter’s sur­face: cel/cell [seru “水面はセル”]124

Then in the im­age, at the top “ceil­ing pat­tern”, and at the bot­tom, “wa­ter’s sur­face.”125

(Com­pare to the ac­tual 3.0 pre­view with 4 Reis and 4 shad­ows in a room with the Sephi­rotic pat­tern.)

Sto­ry­board, 3.0 pre­view: Asuka with a cat-like ex­pres­sion


For a lit­tle bit, the last cut is of Asu­ka.
She can’t help but have a cat face!
←A feel­ing of a slight smile.126

(Com­pare with fi­nal 2.22 an­i­ma­tion.)

Asuka’s plugsuit

Char­ac­ter de­sign: Asuka in 2.0 plug­suit vari­ants (1)
Char­ac­ter de­sign: Asuka in 2.0 plug­suit vari­ants (2)
Char­ac­ter de­sign: Asuka in 2.0 plug­suit vari­ants (3)
Char­ac­ter de­sign: Asuka in 2.0 plug­suit vari­ants (4)

Asuka in Unit-03

See Shinji Higuchi’s in­ter­view de­scrib­ing the orig­i­nal ‘hedge­hog’ sto­ry­boards he drew up; trans­la­tion:

The face of “Asuka with the torn off iden­tity” speaks in Ka­woru’s voice.
K: “It’s not like you.”
A: “Not like me?”
K: “Be­ing happy does­n’t fit you.”
A: “My happy self is scary. // So let’s go back to the usual me.”

Sto­ry­board: Asuka’s face be­ing ripped off while be­ing men­tally as­saulted by an An­gel (1)


Sto­ry­board: Asuka’s face be­ing ripped off while be­ing men­tally as­saulted by an An­gel (2)

(Positioning/page num­ber of this and last im­age are un­clear.)

Sto­ry­board: Asuka’s face be­ing ripped off while be­ing men­tally as­saulted by an An­gel (3)


Sto­ry­board: Asuka’s face be­ing ripped off while be­ing men­tally as­saulted by an An­gel (4)

Asuka & Mari

Sto­ry­board: Asuka & Mari pi­lot­ing Eva-02 to­gether

See Hideaki An­no’s in­ter­view, part 2 & part 3:

…At this point, there was a de­vel­op­ment where, dur­ing the fight with the falling an­gel, Mari and Asuka are present in the [U­nit-02] en­try plug to­geth­er…By the draft of Feb­ru­ary 15 2008, draft 13a, I had the idea that “Mar­i’s ap­pear­ances fol­low­ing the pre-ti­tle se­quence will come soon­er, be more nu­mer­ous, and be more im­pres­sive. To that end, Mari will take charge of the bat­tle­field dur­ing the fight against the falling an­gel, rid­ing with Asuka, who hates the sit­u­a­tion, in the en­try plug [of Unit-02]”. Then Mari cov­ers [庇う] for Asuka, but a wound she re­ceived dur­ing the pre-ti­tle se­quence grows worse, so she is hos­pi­tal­ized un­til she reap­pears again in the last scene. That was the plan, but it did­n’t work out.

Rei self-destruct storyboards

Sto­ry­board: Rei com­mit­ting sui­cide by ac­ti­vat­ing Eva self­-de­struct

[first page, left] Rei: “Good­bye.”

Shin­ji: “Stop! AYANAMI!!!”

Rei: [No idea what the first part says be­cause it’s im­pos­si­ble to read with the flash on the cam­era, bet­ter im­age sauce please!] “I’m do­ing this for my own sake.”

And there’s the bot­tom stuff in moon. OCR not pick­ing up what it says about (I’m as­sum­ing) gen­eral script notes, but the im­por­tant part is: “Scene of the 10th An­gel’s cor­ro­sion, Rei’s de­ci­sion to pull Eva-00’s lever”.127


  1. Lit. “es­tab­lish­ment”. As far as I un­der­stand it, “set­tei” refers to all de­signs, draw­ings, and in­for­ma­tion used to es­tab­lish or flesh out the world of the an­i­ma­tion and its char­ac­ters, and to in­form and di­rect the process of an­i­ma­tion it­self.↩︎

  2. Lit. “pho­tog­ra­phy”—process of con­vert­ing cels to film. I be­lieve CG and so on is added at this time. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  3. Lit. “orig­i­nal im­ages” or “pri­mary im­ages”—key an­i­ma­tion cels (I be­lieve). –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  4. I’m not very fa­mil­iar with the term; see NAv­ery­W’s re­ply be­low:

    “An an­i­matic is ba­si­cally the sto­ry­board set as… not quite an an­i­ma­tion, but timed to how the fi­nal movie will look. It usu­ally has voice-overs and some­times sound effects and mu­sic. It’s also known as a ”.

  5. “he’s a CM di­rec­tor who is cred­ited in the Re­build films as An­no’s as­sis­tant and also as be­ing in­volved in pub­lic­ity or ad­ver­tis­ing. In the in­ter­views so far he’s been men­tioned as tak­ing notes at Atami [see Enokido Memo 1] and mod­i­fy­ing one of the 1.0 posters ac­cord­ing to An­no’s di­rec­tions”. http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=438684#438684↩︎

  6. “To be hon­est, my first in­stinct was to trans­late 『良いキャラ』 as”real char­ac­ter“, where”good" means “well-de­vel­oped”. So, “real char­ac­ter” or “well-de­vel­oped char­ac­ter”. On the other hand, the con­text seemed to sug­gest that maybe Tsu­ru­maki was propos­ing soft­en­ing Asuka’s char­ac­ter so that the au­di­ence could­n’t fail to be­come emo­tion­ally in­vested in her be­fore the Unit-03 se­quence. In the end, I felt un­sure, so I just trans­lated it lit­er­al­ly. I think symbv would cer­tainly un­der­stand the re­mark, but I’m not 100% sure what it mean­t". http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=461297#461297

    [sym­bv] “…I would lean to­wards a trans­la­tion to”good char­ac­ter" as well. It al­lows all the am­bi­gu­ity to stay in­tact. As for in­ter­pre­ta­tion, I would go for mak­ing au­di­ence emo­tion­ally in­vested in Asuka deep­er. I have not seen Re­build but from the ex­am­ples he gave and what I al­ready knew about the food par­ty, I would say that they wanted to make Asuka a “nice girl” whom Shinji could feel cer­tain em­pa­thy, and thus gave him the “shock and sense of loss” on Tou­ji’s level (whom Shinji defi­nitely had close re­la­tion­ship with) as in the se­ries". http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=461351#461351↩︎

  7. Ur­ban Dic­tio­nary de­fines it as

    "An in­stance where a char­ac­ter is sub­ject to ex­treme dan­ger fore­shad­owed with grim im­pli­ca­tions. Ex­am­ples of death flag­ging:

    • Un­know­ingly tick­ing off a un­sta­ble in­di­vid­ual.
    • Won­der­ing into a zone at the wrong time.
    • Tak­ing on a dan­ger­ous deed with slim chances of suc­cess.
    • Short sighted ap­proach to a lu­di­crous even­t."

    The NSFW site Dan­booru de­fines it as

    (Shi­bou Furagu) A sign to the au­di­ence that a char­ac­ter is go­ing to die. A death flag is usu­ally raised by such things as say­ing or do­ing some­thing that can be seen as tempt­ing fate, a char­ac­ter do­ing some­thing that he or she has been warned (some­times re­peat­ed­ly) will lead to death, an un­re­quited re­la­tion­ship fi­nally be­ing re­quit­ed, etc.”

    See also TvTropes on “Tempt­ing Fate”↩︎

  8. See the sto­ry­board of that scene.↩︎

  9. “Cor­rect me if I’m wrong, but is­n’t this whole sec­tion re­gard­ing the scrapped (s­to­ry­board) se­quence of Mari and Asuka work­ing to­gether in the En­try Plug (of Eva-02?)? Or does it ac­tu­ally re­fer to the fi­nal film prod­uct of Mari com­pared to Asuka?” http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=461196#461196

    “This does re­fer to that sto­ry­boarded se­quence. Judg­ing from the com­ments in the other in­ter­views, I think what hap­pened in it was that Mari was given Unit-02 after the sync test (based on Enoki­do’s idea) and then Asuka sneaks on board Unit-02 any­way, so after the fight Mari pre­sum­ably makes some ex­cuse to pre­vent Asuka from be­ing pun­ished. It was a very strange se­ries of ideas, so I can’t say I’m dis­ap­pointed it did­n’t end up be­ing used!” http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=461276#461276↩︎

  10. Mar­i’s ac­tions dur­ing the bat­tle with the 10th an­gel.↩︎

  11. The ed­i­tor men­tions in the end­notes that Anno is re­fer­ring to Chizuru Nan­bara from .↩︎

  12. Makoto Kosaka, who also voiced Hi­romi Oka from .↩︎

  13. Mean­ing that Kaji feeds Shinji with chop­stick­s…!↩︎

  14. In the video “Hideaki Anno talks to kids”, Anno ex­presses lit­tle in­ter­est in food and lists a re­stricted diet (as one might ex­pect of an an­i­ma­tor). It is in­ter­est­ing to com­pare his new­found in­ter­est to ; from “Ground­ing a Ro­mance in Mem­o­ries”, 2013-03-07:

    Home­-cooked meals play a sig­nifi­cant role in . Umi is usu­ally the one re­spon­si­ble for mak­ing meals at the board­ing­house where she lives with her grand­moth­er, sib­lings and other res­i­dents. In an early scene she pre­pares rice and eggs for break­fast. In other scenes she shops for food. And the lunches she takes to school are the envy of her class­mates: mouth­wa­ter­ing con­coc­tions like an obento box, in­clud­ing cod roe, pick­led plum, Japan­ese omelets and spinach with sesame dress­ing. “To eat is to live, and an­i­mated char­ac­ters can’t re­ally come to life if they don’t feel alive,” Mr. [Goro] Miyazaki said. “So eat­ing was some­thing I looked very closely at. How char­ac­ters eat can tell you a lot about them. And while they’re eat­ing, what they’re think­ing at the time can be ex­pressed too.” Mr. Miyazaki in­cluded a num­ber of eat­ing scenes but said it was­n’t un­til he fin­ished the film that he fully re­al­ized the im­por­tance of food in it.


  15. Some­one with a li­cense who does­n’t dri­ve.↩︎

  16. sakka­sei↩︎

  17. Sakuga is an an­i­ma­tion term which gen­er­ally refers to , top an­i­ma­tors who do them, and the scenes them­selves which are gen­er­ally par­tic­u­larly im­por­tant or strik­ing move­ments or ac­tions. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  18. The fos­sil mon­ster Ste­gon, which ap­pears in episode 10 (“The Di­nosaur Ex­plo­sion Di­rec­tive”) of the tokusatsu se­ries . A di­nosaur fos­sil dis­cov­ered at a con­struc­tion site re­vives as a skele­tal mon­ster.↩︎

  19. Among tokusatsu staff, the de­part­ment which causes the ac­tiv­ity of non-hu­man ac­tors such as minia­tures. In the case of a mon­ster cos­tume, they con­trol those parts which do not con­form to the hu­man body, such as a long neck, tail, or wings, us­ing hang­ing wires (). In “Pre­lude”, the fifth an­gel was also de­picted ac­cord­ing to the con­cept of [an ap­par­ent­ly] wire-u­ti­liz­ing “souen style” CG.↩︎

  20. A num­ber of rad­i­cal­ly-de­signed pavil­ions in the 1970 Os­aka World’s Fair were cre­ated ac­cord­ing to an ar­chi­tec­tural school of thought called “Me­tab­o­lism” which had been put forth by a then-y­oung group of ar­chi­tects. The Toshiba IHI pavil­ion, de­signed by Kisho Kurokawa, was a typ­i­cal ex­am­ple, a struc­ture of linked tetra­he­dral units made of black iron. [For im­ages & links, see the later dis­cus­sion of the Toshiba IHI pavil­ion. –Ed­i­tor]↩︎

  21. Mecha which ap­pear in great num­bers and tend to sup­port or be de­stroyed by the main char­ac­ters. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  22. An ex­am­ple of the mo­saic effect can be seen at 0:45 in a trailer, or shield and steer­ing screen­shots. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  23. The SF novel Japan Sinks has had con­sid­er­able in­flu­ence over the years. In par­tic­u­lar, Ya­suhiro Takeda men­tions in his that the novel au­thor often worked with him and other Gainax­ers on SF events; Hideaki Anno was in­ter­viewed by him in 1999 or 2000; and the book comes up in Toshio & Sawarag­i’s . –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  24. This refers to the color of every­thing go­ing red when the dummy plug is ac­ti­vated in episode 18. “Para” is short for “paraffin”. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  25. The spe­cific part is prob­a­bly page 07, “Eva-01 faces off against the Apos­tolo Sa­haquiel. (O­rig­i­nal draw­ing by Yo Yoshi­nari; paint­ing by Sadamo­to.)” and page 31, “Apos­tolo Sa­haquiel (An­gel of the Sky), wheel­ing over Toky­o-3” against an spear-wield­ing Evan­ge­lion. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  26. Refers, I think, to de­cid­ing which parts of an im­age or de­sign will be col­ored what col­or. –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  27. Pivot Turn: Des­ig­nates a ma­neu­ver where, by hav­ing the treads on both sides of a tank or piece of heavy ma­chin­ery roll in op­po­site di­rec­tions at ex­actly the same speed, the body can turn in any di­rec­tion with­out mov­ing [for­wards or back­ward­s]. Ri­tai refers to treads that al­low the tra­ver­sal of un­even ground. They are also called crawler or cater­pil­lar [tread­s]; how­ev­er, the widely known name “cater­pil­lar” is a reg­is­tered trade­mark.↩︎

  28. Trol­ley Sys­tem: A sys­tem whereby elec­tric­ity can be gath­ered from aer­ial wires us­ing a power col­lec­tor mounted on the roof of a train car, such as a . Also called “aer­ial wire power col­lec­tion sys­tem.”↩︎

  29. R-type Mis­sile: A mod­i­fied ver­sion of the , the A-2 rock­et, has been used for the launch­ing of Russ­ian space­crafts such as the .↩︎

  30. Pro­duc­ing the Yam­ato Model De­sign: Hideaki Anno sought a [phys­i­cal] im­age of his ideal Space Bat­tle­ship Yam­a­to, and re­al­ized it through a Shoichi Man­abe pro­to­type. Through the co-op­er­a­tion of the Bandai Vi­sual and Bandai Hobby di­vi­sions [of Bandai], it was made into a 30cm long plas­tic model and in­cluded as an ex­tra in the “Space Bat­tle­ship Yam­ato TV DVD-Box,” which went on sale in Feb­ru­ary 2008. In the re­lease ma­te­ri­als the fol­low­ing words of chief [mod­el] su­per­vi­sor Hideaki Anno are record­ed. “With this model I was fi­nally able to give form to the im­ages I pre­served [within my­self] of the Yam­a­to’s hul­l—the im­age [of the Yam­a­to] in the open­ing se­quence, es­pe­cially where the cam­era pulls back from the Cap­tain’s cab­in; the full side-im­age of the Yam­ato as it launches in episode 3, and the iden­ti­cal dou­ble-page spread in black and white from the Yam­ato il­lus­trated guide; the im­age from the ful­l-color pull­out from the Yam­ato il­lus­trated guide [?]; the color cover im­age from the March is­sue of Bo­ken-o ["K­ing of Ad­ven­ture" manga mag­a­zine]; and so on.”↩︎

  31. A com­peti­tor to ; archived home­page.↩︎

  32. 公開前に鶴巻(和哉)さんに取材したとき,「エヴァ」を破壊するにあたって榎戸さんのアイデアが随所に盛り込まれているとうかがったので,興味があります。↩︎

  33. 綾波レイってどこかお母さんに似ているという設定ですから,男の子からすれば半分子宮の中にいるような距離感です。↩︎

  34. It seems that this memo is not re­pro­duced in the CRC.↩︎

  35. Scan↩︎

  36. 『序』の公開直後に大きいな転換点へ↩︎

  37. “De­stroy” [破壊] is a play upon “Break” [破].↩︎

  38. むしろひとりの視点の方が混乱しなくて良いかも・・・・・・というのが私の意見でもあるので、どうかよろしくお願いします。↩︎

  39. きっと自分では壊しづらかったんでしょうね。それはものすごくよく分かるし、仕方がないとも思う。↩︎

  40. 『破』のプロット開発は『序』の現場に入る前に、すでに進んでました。↩︎

  41. 庵野さんには負担をかけたくないから、貞本さんのキャラ表があって本編中に正規のキャラクターとして登場するのであれば、それでいい。そんなニュアンスだったんですね。↩︎

  42. 別の事情として、↩︎

  43. マリの登場シーン増加で発生したこと↩︎

  44. Num­ber­s-kun ex­plains this:

    Anno did write both scripts him­self. As I cur­rently un­der­stand it, the idea of a new char­ac­ter was sug­gested by Ot­suki dur­ing the first film, and I be­lieve Anno let Tsu­ru­maki and Sadamoto de­sign the char­ac­ter’s ap­pear­ance at that point, check­ing back with him at cer­tain points (to see if Anno liked what they did). Anno wrote her into the ini­tial “Ha” script, but in such a way that she had a very min­i­mal role and it was­n’t re­ally clear what her per­son­al­ity was like. When Anno be­gan rewrit­ing the script to give her a big­ger role, this is where the diffi­cul­ties emerged. The feel­ing among Tsu­ru­maki and oth­ers, I think, was that they were be­ing given these scenes to sto­ry­board with­out Anno hav­ing any sense of what kind of char­ac­ter she was. As Tsu­ru­maki says, An­no’s in­ter­est in her was more “the­matic” or ab­stract. Anno wanted to use her to “break” Eva, but he had­n’t ac­tu­ally de­vel­oped her as a char­ac­ter, and what de­vel­op­ment had been done had been pri­mar­ily done by oth­ers. At least, that’s how I un­der­stand things so far, and how I would un­der­stand Enoki­do’s com­ment.

  45. これがすぐにまたもとに戻っていくんですよ (笑)。↩︎

  46. This is where some­one sits be­hinds you, usu­ally con­cealed, and acts as your arms.↩︎

  47. さっき言われた「TVシリーズの『エヴァンゲリオン』がかなり強固だった」という感じは、そういう意味では確かにあったと思うんですよ。↩︎

  48. それを修正しようとすると、あちこちで膨大な処理というか、つじつま合わせをしなきゃいけない。↩︎

  49. 脚本のため、合宿をされるほど検討をされても、煮詰めきれないものがあったということでしょうか。↩︎

  50. 結局、一番すんなり行くんですよ。↩︎

  51. 第拾九話相当の流れということですね。↩︎

  52. 明らかに映画の中と外、物語と現実世界との間にそういう構造があるわけで。それも含めて「映画」なんですね。↩︎

  53. 「エヴァを『破』にするってそういうことか」という点で、ものすごく刺激的なお話ですね。↩︎

  54. TVシリーズ第拾九話に潜んでいたマジック↩︎

  55. 本当に一個ひっくり返したことが、いちいち全部後につながって生きてくる構造になっていて、すごいなと思ったわけです。↩︎

  56. そんな感じのことがあちこちにあるんですね。↩︎

  57. See the ge­og­ra­phy here: http://punynari.wordpress.com/2010/05/23/english-hakone-instrumentality-map/ The moun­tain is listed there as “Mt. Daigatake”.↩︎

  58. BANK” is a script di­rec­tion in­di­cat­ing the us­age of pre-ex­ist­ing footage. It’s used on­ce, for ex­am­ple, in the 2.0 script as part of the di­rec­tions for a brief flash­back to the first film. Cf. Re­ichu here: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=194288#194288↩︎

  59. Prob­a­bly one of the pas­sages Num­ber­s-kun pre­vi­ously wrote of: “In a cou­ple of places I could­n’t fig­ure out any sat­is­fy­ing ren­di­tion with cer­tain­ty, so I just left the Japan­ese as it was. None of those in­stances con­tain cru­cial in­for­ma­tion, but tend to just re­in­force what’s be­ing said in the con­text.”↩︎

  60. The shot Tsu­ru­maki is re­fer­ring to oc­curs some­where around 11:23–11:30 in episode 19.↩︎

  61. だから 「乗らないぞ」と言うのは、そうしないと乗ってしまうからだと。↩︎

  62. 勉強みたいな些細な話ならまだいいけど、↩︎

  63. だってこのパンフのインタビューにしても本当は「嫌だな」って思ってる。↩︎

  64. インタビューのことはどうでもいいんだけど(笑)、僕はそういう感じなんです。↩︎

  65. これはあくまで想像ですけど、↩︎

  66. だから、あれって庵野さんの目を盗んでシンジのキャラをかなり描き変えているんじゃないかと思うんですよ。↩︎

  67. そう受け取れる 感じに仕上がっているわけです。↩︎

  68. 摩砂雪さんの言い方は「いや庵野がさ、こう言ってたからこうしたんだけどさ。まあまあまあ」みたな感じでしたから(笑)。↩︎

  69. これは僕のように決定的な対立や否定を生まないよう、相当うまくごまかして両立させたんじゃないかと。↩︎

  70. エヴァの構造を強固にする存在とは?↩︎

  71. 帰納的↩︎

  72. 演繹的↩︎

  73. それを積み重ねていくような演繹的な人なんです。↩︎

  74. 人格↩︎

  75. I would in­stinc­tively read this as “I re­turn again (de­spite what I in­tend­ed)”. Maybe “I have re­turned again.” Or “the film has re­turned…” Or “Eva re­turns…”. Any thoughts on this? ^^ Might need the orig­i­nal con­text.↩︎

  76. 「全記録全集 序」の庵野秀明総監督への取材時の印象と違うため、こういう聞き方で掘り下げている。↩︎

  77. [M­r.] Hikawa, who as­sisted with the ad­ver­tis­ing for “Pre­lude”, had seen a few of the drafts of the de­signs for the “Stairs Poster” that be­came a key vi­sual [for the “Re­build” film­s]; how­ev­er, none of them hon­estly struck him. One day, when he was shown the ver­sion of the poster with var­i­ous “key words” writ­ten hor­i­zon­tally across it, he re­ceived the im­pres­sion “Sud­den­ly, it’s be­come ‘Eva’!” and forth­rightly com­mu­ni­cated his shock to the peo­ple in charge at that time. That ver­sion was not con­tributed by the de­sign­er. Hideaki Anno had per­son­ally di­rected his as­sis­tant, Ikki Todor­oki, to cre­ate it. When this came out, Hikawa ex­pe­ri­enced a sec­ond shock and made the re­mark in ques­tion. (See page 305 of Ikki Todor­oki’s in­ter­view.)↩︎

  78. いつもミスター・エヴァが常にスイッチを好きな方へ倒してきたってことですね。↩︎

  79. Ac­cord­ing to 2 Anno in­ter­views in 2011 & 2012, this is lit­er­al: Anno per­son­ally funded the de­vel­op­ment of Khara & Re­build: “Suzuki: You made [the new] Eva with your own money?/ An­no: Yeah. / Suzuki: In­cred­i­ble. / An­no: 100 per­cent [—]. It is a risk, but also an op­por­tu­nity for re­turn.” and “The pro­duc­tion cost of the new works has been en­tirely fi­nanced by Stu­dio Khara, with­out invit­ing con­tri­bu­tions from out­side in­vestors. They are so-called ‘in­de­pen­dently pro­duced works.’” –Ed­i­tor↩︎

  80. ??? 2 そういう抵抗というか葛藤のかいもあって、最終的には何とか壊れた『破』になったのではないでしょうか。↩︎

  81. 結果的には、庵野さんが言っていた「シンジは本当に乗りたくないんだ」ということをそのままストレートに表現つもりです。だから「本当は乗らなきゃいけないと分かっているシンジが最終的に乗る」という僕の拾九話の解釈とは明確に違った話にしています。↩︎

  82. http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=412023#412023↩︎

  83. http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=412354#412354↩︎

  84. 三人目のレイに託そうとした想い↩︎

  85. アスカを3号機に乗せるための動機にも連動していることなので、思っていたよりも強い描き方になってしまいましたね↩︎

  86. There is a foot­note about this. It refers to An­no’s de­sire to bring the “live feel­ing” of the­ater into ani­me.↩︎

  87. その結果、略奪婚に来たみたいに見えますよね。“略奪婚” refers, I be­lieve, to the an­cient prac­tice of ab­duct­ing one’s bride from a hos­tile tribe. To­day I be­lieve it’s used to mean a mar­riage that re­sults from an adul­ter­ous affair, i.e.“steal­ing a husband/wife from some­one”. I as­sume the orig­i­nal mean­ing must be in­tended here?↩︎

  88. ―今回、平和島みたいな第7使徒など使徒のデザインが根本からすべて変わりましたが、それは最初からの意図ですか?↩︎

  89. 鶴巻 第7使徒は、実はTV版第八話の原画がまるまる紛失していて、BANKが使えなかったという事情がそもそもの理由です。もし原画が残っていたら、作監(作画監督)はやり直すにしても第八話のエピソードはまるごと残ったかもしれません。原画を流用できないなら、アスカ登場シーンは全部変えましょうってことです。デザインはコヤマシゲトさんと小松田(大全)君でまとめて、最終的にはCG上で詰めた感じですね。あの使徒も硬くて複雑なものがゆっくり動く、 CGが生きるようなデザインなので、作画ではなかなか難しいかと。↩︎

  90. ―第8使徒は、デザイナーはどなたですか。↩︎

  91. 鶴巻 落下する使徒のデザインは全体が前田真宏さんで、中から出てくるヒト型は本田君ですね。僕の担当パートではないので詳しくは分からないけど、あの CGは相当大変だったと思いますよ。『序』のときの第6使徒は、完全ではないにせよなんとなく勝利ポイントが見えていて、そのゴールにどう近づくかという進め方でしたが、落下してくる使徒はゴールがよく見えない中でかなり試行錯誤していたように思えます。↩︎

  92. ―第3使徒のデザインは『ぼくらの』の鬼頭莫宏さんですよね。↩︎

  93. 鶴巻 そうです。あれには庵野さんの大ラフがありますが、鬼頭さんから出たアイデアがほぼ一発で決定みたいな感じでした。↩︎

  94. ―もっとも役割が変わった感もある問題の第10使徒ですが、なぜデザインを変えたのでしょうか。↩︎

  95. https://wiki.evageeks.org/images/f/ff/Eva01%2Cprotosahaq.jpg↩︎

  96. 鶴巻 理由は僕には分からないです。最初のプロット段階では変形することすら決まってなかったと思うんです。もともとTV版の第14使徒は秀逸なアイデアが入っているデザインで、特にパタパタパタという折りたたみ式の腕が面白いんです。あの仕掛けはTV用の企画書に、折り紙みたいな腕の部分だけが空中に浮いている使徒と初号機が戦っているイメージボードが載っているくらい最初からあるアイデアなので、それを変えた理由はよく分からないですね。↩︎

  97. TVの第拾九話ではEVAが使徒を喰いますが、『破』では使徒がEVAを喰う。この逆転はすごいと思います。観客はまず変形してビックリ、喰うところで二重にビックリ。『破』を象徴する使徒だろうと思います。↩︎

  98. 鶴巻 『破』では対3号機戦で、直接喰うというのとは違いますが、印象として捕食と似たアイデアを使ってしまっていますから。TVなら一週間たっているので構わないのかもしれませんが、映画で三〇分前に似た印象のシーンがあるのはまずいだろうとは思っていました。変形というよりは、あれはだんだん成長していく感じですね。次第にヒトに近づいていくみたいな。あれもコンテ作業に入ってしまったのにデザインが固まっていなくて、日々変わっていくんです。コンテ上でも時期によって何種類も別のデザインで描かれているんですよ。あの使徒の最終形態のデザインは、僕は戦隊シリーズの悪の女幹部みたいなやつにしたかったなあって、いまだに思ってるんですが。↩︎

  99. えっ、かぶりものということですか。↩︎

  100. Lit­er­ally some­thing like “forced syn­the­sis”. I think it means some­thing like com­bin­ing two im­ages, etc., from differ­ent sources. May­be, in the con­text, some­thing like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlRiWTE4CQc↩︎

  101. 鶴巻 ええ。ライダーマンみたいに口から鼻まで女性の顔が出てて、目から上の頭部は使徒に覆われて、体は裸のまま巨大になってる。その案を出したら即刻却下されました(笑)。戦隊ものだとよく山の向こうに巨大化して大暴れしてるシーンがありますよね。無理やりな合成で軽い発泡スチロールの岩を蹴散らして。ああいうイメージでしたが、絵を見せたら庵野さんがやっぱりだめだと。僕はどちらかと言えば、仮面ライダーよりも戦隊ものの方が好きな人間ですが、庵野さんは戦隊ものはあくまでギャグとして好きということで、本気で好きではないのかもしれませんね。でも、結果的には面白いデザインになったと思います。↩︎

  102. I think this term refers to how a se­quence is “blocked”, or how the shots are set up, and there­fore points to some­thing like the cin­e­matog­ra­phy, but I am not very fa­mil­iar with the term.↩︎

  103. その使徒の戦いではTV版拾九話と同じカット割りがありますね。一番印象的な発令所に初号機がなだれ込んでくるカットとか。↩︎

  104. 鶴巻 あの辺はコンテ的にはそのままで、使徒のデザインが違う以上、変わらざるを得ない部分だけ修正するという処理にしました。最初はカット割りごと全部変えるべきだろうと思ってはいたんですが、変えてもうまくいかないんですよ。僕にとっては第拾九話を変えること自体がものすごいストレスなので、変えれば変えるほどクオリティが下がっていくような気がするんです。↩︎

  105. いいかげ↩︎

  106. ずるい↩︎

  107. 卑怯↩︎

  108. ずるさ↩︎

  109. まじめさ↩︎

  110. かたくなさ↩︎

  111. いい塩梅さ↩︎

  112. ふまじめさ↩︎

  113. あくまでも声質・キャラクターの作り方には、むしろマッチしないことの面白さがあるから、↩︎

  114. キャラクターを貫く声の存在感↩︎

  115. それぐらい僕にとって、マリと坂本さんに接近している部分がなかったんです。↩︎

  116. Ap­par­ently a stereo­typ­i­cal bat­tle-cry; one site de­fines it as “what you say when you punch some­body re­peat­ed­ly. A fight­ing taunt or war cry; we’ve had it loosely trans­lated as ‘Take that!’ ‘Try this!’ (see also do­rya, orya, so­rya, uraa)”↩︎

  117. 「役者・イコール・キャラ」ぐらい強固なことを求められていることになるわけですか。↩︎

  118. I’m not sure why the de­sign is de­scribed with ref­er­ence to “Hei­wa­ji­ma.” This is also men­tioned dur­ing the Tsu­ru­maki in­ter­view. My guess is that its a ref­er­ence to a mon­u­ment in Hei­wa­jima Koen.↩︎

  119. I marked parts I felt un­easy about, and left out a line I was­n’t sure how to trans­late.↩︎

  120. http://www.kisho.co.jp/page.php/211 bot­tom, or see Wiki­me­dia Com­mons.↩︎

  121. Re­ichu: “Yeah, ラフ refers to a rough draw­ing or sketch in an­i­ma­tor jar­gon.”↩︎

  122. http://blog-soth.blogspot.com/2010/10/evangelion-20-complete-records.html↩︎

  123. Re­ichu↩︎

  124. A later cor­rec­tion:

    I’m not sure what I was think­ing, but セル is not “Seele” but “seru,” prob­a­bly ei­ther “cell” or “cel.” “The wa­ter’s sur­face is [a/the] [cell/cel].” Maybe refers to an an­i­ma­tion cel, or some­thing else?

    Patrick Yip:

    水面はセル means ex­tra an­i­ma­tion cel should be used to de­pict the wa­ter sur­face (not some CG for ex­am­ple).

  125. Num­ber­s-kun↩︎

  126. Trans­la­tion by SSD based on this scan.↩︎

  127. SSD↩︎